Multiplex Light Switch Pad Failures Discussion

[FishAR]

Today I was in the motorhome and went to turn on the lights on the pad by the sink, it's dead. I push the buttons but nothing happens. It doesn't light up or turn on the lights. It worked last time I was down there.

The pad in the bathroom works, other living room pad works, bedroom pad works, best I can tell all the lights work. I didn't get to mess with it much because I had to run home right away.

Motorhome is plugged in, batteries charged, nothing else abnormal.

Wondering when I get back down there tomorrow if killing all power to it would reset it, like unplugging the motorhome and turning the battery disconnect?

Or do I need to look at the master panel in the closet for a blown fuse? There's an intellitec panel in the closet with a lot of fuses.

Thanks in advance.

[FishAR]

Ok, I guess I did the search wrong here. I did a search on irv2 and Paul Whittle says kill the battery disconnects and it will reset and if it doesn't further investigation is required.

I'll try that in the morning before I ask any more questions about it.

[Tom Cherry]

First.  Do some searching here first….here is what I found.  I started to combine this one with the old one,  that prevents a whole bunch of disjointed thread titles on the same subject.  Read it.  Now…..then read my comments below.  

first….resetting by pulling the power resets the IPX (Brain) as well as the system.  Leave it off for at least 5 minutes.  Three ways of doing that.  House disconnect switch….should work.  The salesman’s switch at the door…pushing it down will work,….removing the positive from the house bank….

NO JOY….ODDS ARE….there is a loose connection in the pigtail that the Multiplex pad plugs into.  So..Second.  Take something like a Swiss Army knife blade and slip it under the cover and the cover will pop out.  It has been a while since I did this.  If it is screwed on….remove the screws.  Now….I ASSUMED you mean the switch in the hall sink or the vanity as Monaco calls it.  I THINK that switch has a PUMP button on it.  If so, there are two separate pigtails.  They are different….so Don don’t panic.  You need to find the two connectors and unplug each.  One is for the pump start….2 wires.  The other is the data link that connects the pad to the system.

Plug and unplug a few times.  You can use a Q-tip and alcohol to clean the contacts on the pigtail ends…or spray with ELECTRONIC (not electrical) cleaner. Plug It back end and remount….or let it dangle.  If it doesn’t work, do the power off again.

Next up….and this will be a much needed Preventative Maintenance item….trip OFF the Generator breaker on it.  Disconnect the shore.  Turn off BOTH MAIN BATTERY SWITCHES.  Turn OFF the Inverter….you might want to disconnect the House battery….just a precaution.  That kills the inverter.

Pull off the main brown panel cover. Tighten every screw inside the panel.  There is a wooden, thin, panel below the main and sort of behind the three Intellitec modules.  Remove  it.  You might have to wiggle it out.  Some have said it was easier to remove a cabinet door.  Behind it is a treasure trove of electrical connections.  There is a 5 (memory) terminal strip circuit breakers there.  Tighten everything in there….screw terminals or screws with wires in terminals.  There is a big power nut on each Intellitec.  Tighten them.

If you have a loose connection or an erratic one, it will drive you bonkers,

Now, button it back up.  Turn back on the power.  If t your batteries are fully charged, test it.  Make sure to push the Salesman switch to the top…just to insure it is latched and on.

From this point on….it does get complicated.  to locate the three Intellitec modules….usually in the cabinet in the bathroom…..below and to the right of the main panel.  

IF I read your first post right….then you can turn on the overhead fluorescent light from the bedroom pad….you can also turn on the pump from another switch.  If you do not see the pad light up that switch or the backlight….then it gets heavier.  Do the above and report back here.

then others or myself can chime in.  Until you do the above and eliminate the known issues….doing wild things and shotgunning it will not work.  You have to have good power….thus the tightening.  Tightening the AC power is probably not the issue, but it will take maybe 5 minutes and you will have less gremlins,  the 5 terminal circuit breaker terminal strip can get loose and drive you crazy….again….we eliminate an item.

Let us know.  There is no magic bullet or “do this” if the first reset doesn’t work or making sure the switch leads are connected…..

Good Luck.  Keep us posted.

[FishAR]

35 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

First.  Do some searching here first….here is what I found.  I started to combine this one with the old one,  that prevents a whole bunch of disjointed thread titles on the same subject.  Read it.  Now…..then read my comments below.  

first….resetting by pulling the power resets the IPX (Brain) as well as the system.  Leave it off for at least 5 minutes.  Three ways of doing that.  House disconnect switch….should work.  The salesman’s switch at the door…pushing it down will work,….removing the positive from the house bank….

NO JOY….ODDS ARE….there is a loose connection in the pigtail that the Multiplex pad plugs into.  So..Second.  Take something like a Swiss Army knife blade and slip it under the cover and the cover will pop out.  It has been a while since I did this.  If it is screwed on….remove the screws.  Now….I ASSUMED you mean the switch in the hall sink or the vanity as Monaco calls it.  I THINK that switch has a PUMP button on it.  If so, there are two separate pigtails.  They are different….so Don don’t panic.  You need to find the two connectors and unplug each.  One is for the pump start….2 wires.  The other is the data link that connects the pad to the system.

Plug and unplug a few times.  You can use a Q-tip and alcohol to clean the contacts on the pigtail ends…or spray with ELECTRONIC (not electrical) cleaner. Plug It back end and remount….or let it dangle.  If it doesn’t work, do the power off again.

Next up….and this will be a much needed Preventative Maintenance item….trip OFF the Generator breaker on it.  Disconnect the shore.  Turn off BOTH MAIN BATTERY SWITCHES.  Turn OFF the Inverter….you might want to disconnect the House battery….just a precaution.  That kills the inverter.

Pull off the main brown panel cover. Tighten every screw inside the panel.  There is a wooden, thin, panel below the main and sort of behind the three Intellitec modules.  Remove  it.  You might have to wiggle it out.  Some have said it was easier to remove a cabinet door.  Behind it is a treasure trove of electrical connections.  There is a 5 (memory) terminal strip circuit breakers there.  Tighten everything in there….screw terminals or screws with wires in terminals.  There is a big power nut on each Intellitec.  Tighten them.

If you have a loose connection or an erratic one, it will drive you bonkers,

Now, button it back up.  Turn back on the power.  If t your batteries are fully charged, test it.  Make sure to push the Salesman switch to the top…just to insure it is latched and on.

From this point on….it does get complicated.  to locate the three Intellitec modules….usually in the cabinet in the bathroom…..below and to the right of the main panel.  

IF I read your first post right….then you can turn on the overhead fluorescent light from the bedroom pad….you can also turn on the pump from another switch.  If you do not see the pad light up that switch or the backlight….then it gets heavier.  Do the above and report back here.

then others or myself can chime in.  Until you do the above and eliminate the known issues….doing wild things and shotgunning it will not work.  You have to have good power….thus the tightening.  Tightening the AC power is probably not the issue, but it will take maybe 5 minutes and you will have less gremlins,  the 5 terminal circuit breaker terminal strip can get loose and drive you crazy….again….we eliminate an item.

Let us know.  There is no magic bullet or “do this” if the first reset doesn’t work or making sure the switch leads are connected…..

Good Luck.  Keep us posted.

I have switches next to the couch, under the hydro hot panel, they work.

Largest switch pad is by the kitchen sink, next to the mirror and the shelf above the sink where I keep my liquor (ahhh so tasty). It's the one that isn't working. No water pump switch on it I recall. Probably because the big panel with invertor/generator/water pump switch/ems readout is right around the corner. Tons of lights, not sure I've even used all of them yet.

Shower/vanity has a switch pad, it has a water pump.

Toilet room/vanity has a switch pad, it has a water pump.

Then bedroom switch pad.

I promise I searched 3 pages worth and got disinterested, should have stayed with it I guess.

[FishAR]

Was down there today giving the roof another coat so I cycled the power. Unplugged from 50 amp, turned battery disconnects. Waited 10 minutes.

Not a success. 

So my next project will be to put the bedroom slide out so I can get to the panel and go through Tom's troubleshooting list. The bed slide blocks all my electrical panels.

[thomasgibbens]

I have a ‘15 Dynasty with multiplex switches that I struggled with for several years. I could remove the pad and there were two modular jacks on the back. I could unplug from one and plug into the other and it would work for a while and then come back. I bought a new pad but same issues. 
 

I bought a can of electric contact spray (No-ox) and sprayed the contacts and went to the inverter bay where the main controllers are located and removed each cable one by one and sprayed them and reconnected. Still no solution. After doing these things for 2-3 years, the system now works with no problems!  Very annoying in the meantime. 
 

Also make sure you have no moisture getting into the main compartment and running down the controllers. Moisture and electronics don’t mix well!

Tom Gibbens

’15 Dynasty 

[Tom Cherry]

17 hours ago, FishAR said:

Was down there today giving the roof another coat so I cycled the power. Unplugged from 50 amp, turned battery disconnects. Waited 10 minutes.

Not a success. 

So my next project will be to put the bedroom slide out so I can get to the panel and go through Tom's troubleshooting list. The bed slide blocks all my electrical panels.

Well, you did reset the IPX (small brain of the Multiplex) as well as your EMS...so they should be happy.

Odds are, doing the PM in the bedroom area will not help.  The problem for me, a fellow Camelot owner, is that you have, I think, a slightly different wiring arrangement than the 2008's.  And we do NOT have prints for that.  So....here is a quick TEST...

With NO power to the MH (shore or genny), this time disconnect BOTH the positive and GROUND from each bank of batteries.  I think that just the NEGATIVE, based on an expert's advice, will do....but do it this way.  Pull the Negative.  WAIT about 5 minutes or longer.  Then the Positives.  DO THIS ON House and Chassis.  The problem is that Monaco changed the way the Inverter was hooked up....so sometimes the disconnect switches don't work.

I DOUBT that it will fix it....but it is 100% sure to have all the power off.....  SO....for the interim, if that does NOT fix it....then proceed.

YES, I DO think that you have a PUMP switch on the pad in the "galley" or at least mine does.  I have FOUR pump switches.....one at each of the three sinks and one in the service bay.  NOW....again, you have an earlier Multiplex....so you MAY not have the "new and improved" pump switch key pads.  LONG STORY....quick answer.  On at least ONE Key Pad usually the one in the toilet....Monaco had Intellitec solder on TWO extra wires.  These two wires went to the Service bay and were hooked up to the Pump Switch there.  SO, when you pushed the ON switch for the Pump....that was like or the same as pushing the PUMP switch in the toiler.  STRANGE....but that is how it worked.... 

That was ALSO the case for the Overhead Ceiling Lights in the main living area.  That ASSUMES that you have a "Switch" for them as you come in.  Mine has a momentary contact switch for the Ceiling fluorescent lights on the passengers lower panel as you start up the steps.  That means that THAT Switch has two wires going to WHICHEVER key pad ALSO controls the Overheads.  For SOME reason, I think that only ONE of my key pads has the overhead....maybe the one up front.

Bottom line....here is what you do....and the above was to tell you that without prints it is impossible to tell you actually what you will find.....

Pull over the cover (snap it off). Then pull out or remove the switch so you can look at the wiring.  HERE is where it gets tricky....but follow along.

The Switch can be one of TWO or THREE types...  First...

Only ONE pigtail from the switch to the main harness.  It is probably 4...but it might be 3 wires.  What are the colors?  NOW look at the mating harness.  Are there TWO WIRES, per pin or terminal on it.  In other words....If you have a 4 wire pigtail from the switch, then there should be an 8 wire one on the mating connector....where you have TWO wires for every pin.  This means that the switch is in PARALELL    It MIGHT also have a TWO wire connector....which is the PUMP switch.....or if that key pad controls the over head fluorescent lights....like the one at the door....then it could have TWO 2 wire connectors.

NOW....if the switch has TWO 3 or 4 wire connectors....then it is a SERIES switch.  Then there will only be the same number of wires on the harness.  In other words....the harness provides power and the signal on an INCOMING line....it goes THROUGH the switch....and then OUT through the other harness.  Also....as before....are there other 2 wire connectors. 

We need a PICTURE of the back of the switch and also the harnesses....or a "description". The REASON....without knowing the type of circuit....we can't help you.  IF the switch has TWO incoming 3 or 4 wire connectors....then that means you could have a bad connection up or down the circuit. 

Label the multi wire connectors or pigtails....or disconnect them ONE AT A TIME.....Unplug and reseat each one....do it a few times.  That is to make a better connection. NOW look closely....into the BACK of each connector....on the SWITCH as well as the House side.  Note where the insulation was cut...use a light.  Does it look like ONE wire may not have been put in deep enough for a good connection.  Monaco and their suppliers were notorious for not having the bare copper inside a connector before they crimped it.  I have had to fix 5 or so butt splices.  Do this on each wire and connector. 

I DO not know if the switch will "come to life" if you connect it properly....if you found a loose connection, odds are it will. 

NOW....if the switch has TWO 3 or 4 wire connectors....as in INCOMING and OUTGOING....then you need to go to the NEXT one on each side.  I pulled your floor plan.  This is a GUESS....but probably pretty good.  Your sink or slide is on the PASSENGER SIDE....if I read the layout right.  Then there is a switch on the vanity or the hall sink on the other side of the shower.  That switch needs to come OUT....and you need to do the disconnect and reconnect there also.  Same for the switch up front...in the overhead cabinet behind the passenger seat or wherever the NEXT key pad is on the passenger side....going forward.  Disconnect and reconnect that switch also.

LOOK for the same thing on each of the other switches....is there a wire that sticks out or the insulation is cut and you can see more of the copper.

OK....that is ENOUGH.  If nothing happened....then you can try to Reset....but I don't think it will work....but do the Negative....wait a few minutes...then the positive....then wait and reconnect.  Push a button on an adjacent switch....the back light should come on.  Push a button for the SAME light that is on the bad keypad....the switch light should come on.

If that fails....then....Do you have have a Voltmeter and know how to start checking for voltages.  We will get to that phase NEXT....but this is a complex trouble shooting process...

I KNOW this all sounds like a lot of work.  It is.  IF you have good voltages and the network (house side) of the circuit is OK, then you have a defective switch and you can get one for it....but they repair shop....or folks here that sometimes do that....needs to know EXACTLY what the back of this switch looks like and how many pigtails and such.  The switch has its OWN program.  There is a chip inside it.  That chip is programed from the port on the front.  You NEW switch has to be programmed the same....

You have just had a crash course in Multiplex lighting....which you probably did NOT want to learn....LOL.  But the only way to isolate the issue is to do all the trouble shooting.  Let us know.....

Thanks. 

1 hour ago, thomasgibbens said:

I have a ‘15 Dynasty with multiplex switches that I struggled with for several years. I could remove the pad and there were two modular jacks on the back. I could unplug from one and plug into the other and it would work for a while and then come back. I bought a new pad but same issues. 
 

I bought a can of electric contact spray (No-ox) and sprayed the contacts and went to the inverter bay where the main controllers are located and removed each cable one by one and sprayed them and reconnected. Still no solution. After doing these things for 2-3 years, the system now works with no problems!  Very annoying in the meantime. 
 

Also make sure you have no moisture getting into the main compartment and running down the controllers. Moisture and electronics don’t mix well!

Tom Gibbens

’15 Dynasty 

Tom,

Thanks for that.  It is difficult to figure out a multiplex key pad or "won't work" issue.  My Camelot (2009) may NOT be the same as the 2007.  In addition, I assume that you are referring to the Multiplex Controllers or Main Controllers as the Intellitec Modules.  There are TWO kinds.... the Dimming and the Relay Ouput.  These have the 10 fuses (all RED 10 Amp) and a big POWER cable (nutted on) and a "Wiring Harness".  I was not aware....as Monaco did a lot of funky things, that they located them in an under compartment or outside bay.  That is what I understand...hopefully correctly....from your description.  fascinating.  If incorrect, then try again and I will try to be less dense.  Also a picture would help, if that is possible....

On MY Camelot, the Modules are located INSIDE....and I think that is the case for the 2007.  Mine are in a cabinet in the bathroom....and the poster's are probably in a cabinet or located inside a bedroom closet.  SO, moisture, if yours are in an outside bay....would be an issue for your MH but not for the Camelots.

Thanks for chiming in.....we learn by others describing their rigs.

[thomasgibbens]

My system is American Technologies and yes, the main computer is in the outdoor compartment. I am adding a couple of photos. The one with one above the other is outside and the top is the CPU. The other photo is of one of the local control boxes where just unplugging a modular Jack and plugging it back in would sometimes fix the issue. Tech support even had me swap out the local control with another in the coach but that didn’t help either. They kept saying it’s a cable issue so that’s why I kept working on the connections. Eventually, the issue just went away!

[Tom Cherry]

Thanks.... I did NOT pickup...and that is my stupidity for scanning too quickly, that you have a REV Monaco.  OK....I see the Logo for American Technology.  I THOUGHT that was what was used in the 201....That system, per the 2016 Brochure (Can't find a 2015) is the FIREFLY....

Doing a little research....it appears they may be TOTALLY different....but in the same field....and also a direct competitor of Intellitec.  I guess that the folks at REV also change vendors and systems.....hope they do a better job that the old Monaco system did.

Good Luck....again....welcome aboard.  Your system does, in general, probably the same.  We need input and help from folks like you....so we are more "diversified".

Thanks...

 

[Frank McElroy]

11 hours ago, thomasgibbens said:

My system is American Technologies and yes, the main computer is in the outdoor compartment. I am adding a couple of photos. The one with one above the other is outside and the top is the CPU. The other photo is of one of the local control boxes where just unplugging a modular Jack and plugging it back in would sometimes fix the issue. Tech support even had me swap out the local control with another in the coach but that didn’t help either. They kept saying it’s a cable issue so that’s why I kept working on the connections. Eventually, the issue just went away!

Tom Gibbens, Thank you for posting your solution.  Although you have a different multiplex system than the Intellitec systems used on the older Monaco coaches, you identified and important item in that all connections in the system need to be good.  A poor connection of power, ground or data cables are known problem areas in all multiplex systems. 

Also, sometimes someone might use the ground wire for some other component.  This is a big no no.  These multiplex systems need to function as stand alone systems.  Never connect anything else to them.

[FishAR]

Was at the motorhome today working on something else, went inside and decided to try and pry the switch cover off the non working switch.

Got to the point I was afraid of it breaking and then my fingers slipped and it popped back. And came on.  So it's obviously a connection in the switch.

It worked the whole time I was inside, then I went back out to do something else and when I went back in it was dead again.

 

So I know for sure what to do now.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, FishAR said:

Was at the motorhome today working on something else, went inside and decided to try and pry the switch cover off the non working switch.

Got to the point I was afraid of it breaking and then my fingers slipped and it popped back. And came on.  So it's obviously a connection in the switch.

It worked the whole time I was inside, then I went back out to do something else and when I went back in it was dead again.

 

So I know for sure what to do now.

Next time use short thin blade on something like a Swiss Army knife.  They usually pop out easily….gently pry up from the bottom or a corner.  Memory says they have 4 locking lugs….one on each side.  You loosen one side.  Pulling on the cover was fighting all four.

I would not be too quick to condemn the switch.  Get the cover off and then plug and unplug the various pigtails.  I found 5G is which is also a good primer.  NEVER TRUST a connection.  I did not know about the LED’S .  BUT in your case, I think it is in a switch connection.  When you get it out, after removing or popping off the cover and unscrewing it.  Reseat the connectors.  Then GENTLY tug on each wire and push it back in.  Like in the video.  Jarring the switch like you did is or could be a wiring issue…if not, then there may be a circuit board issue.  If someone doesn’t jump in, call MM RV electronic in Ohio City Ohio.  Let them diagnose.  They can provide a replacement for you.

https://youth.be/g_iqW6wDa4E

Good Luck.

 

[Frank McElroy]

The covers have 4 sets of tabs.   2 are on each of the longer sides of the cover plate - no tabs on the shorter side.  The easiest way I found to snap off these plates is to push HARD up with both thumbs on one longer side while using your fingers to pull the other side off.

[FishAR]

Disappointment today. Got the switch plate off and the switch out. Sprayed the plug ins with electronic cleaner, q tip won't fit in there.  Plugged it back in and out several times, wiggled wires and plugs and pushed buttons, no lighting up or any activity.

Odd thing I noticed is all the switch pads stay lighted up with this one unplugged. The buttons are white, then the ones in use are yellow on the side. The switch pads never stayed lighted up before until they were touched.

Here are some pictures:

Wire from wall, 2 yellows, 2 browns, 2 reds.

Back of switch

 

Front of switch

 

 

Plug for switch

 

So 6 wires to the plug and 3 out to the switch.

 

So now I'm wondering if I should remove that board from the buttons and see what it looks like in there?

[Tom Cherry]

You need to connect with Dr. Frank.  Here is what I know....and it has been SO LONG AGO, I may be fuzzy.  You have to follow the concept.  If you "looked" or went to the RIGHT and LEFT (inside the Motor Home) of this switch to the NEXT ONE....on either side.  They are connected to a LOOP.  The double wires on the WALL Plug indicates that this switch pad is like a Parallel Connection.  In other words, the circuit comes in from one side or the other (the left or right) Switch Pads.....it (the Yellow, Tan and Red Wires comes to this switch....but they are JOINED or connected and keep running.  When this switch sends a "Coded" signal to the CPU in the rear....it does it via these three wires.  You KNOW the wires are OK....otherwise....one of the other switches will not work.  

I THINK that now narrows it down to the switch.  BUT, Frank is the expert.  This is what he needs to know to further assist you.

Just HOLD ON and do NOT do anything else until you get input from him or another Multiplex Expert....and we have several.  You have given them, I think, enough information so serious trouble shooting can begin.  Do not do any disassembly without their input....

Glad you got it off the wall.  

@Frank McElroy  Can you take it from here....  Thanks.

[Frank McElroy]

From what you are describing, the keypad needs to be replaced.  You mentioned that at one time putting pressure on the keypad caused some of the switches to work but it failed again.  Could be a cold solder joint or a failing circuit component but if after examination nothing is obvious it's easier just to replace the keypad.

If the program can't be read from the existing circuit board, then the keypad codes would need to be determined from the schematic and verified with the intellitec modules in the coach to get the module letter and function number to code each keypad. 

I'll send a note to Paul Whittle our Intellitec contact and see what he can do to help.  Your other option is to contact M&M in Ohio to program a new keypad.  If these options fail, send me an offline message.

[pwhittle]

Unplugging one keypad should not stop the others from working, but unplugging it while the system is running can confuse things.

Try tuning the house 12V off and on to let the Intellitec system restart to get rid of the backlighting. You can use the Salesman Switch, or the House Battery disconnect switch.

My guess is your switch panel has failed and needs replacing.

The Monaco keypads are NLA from Intellitec, but I have a small number of them.

I have had one switch panel fail, and seen a couple of other people’s switch panels fail.

I have also seen some individual buttons become intermittent, and have been able to repair them.

Edited October 3, 2022 by pwhittle

[FishAR]

8 hours ago, pwhittle said:

Unplugging one keypad should not stop the others from working, but unplugging it while the system is running can confuse things.

Try tuning the house 12V off and on to let the Intellitec system restart to get rid of the backlighting. You can use the Salesman Switch, or the House Battery disconnect switch.

My guess is your switch panel has failed and needs replacing.

The Monaco keypads are NLA from Intellitec, but I have a small number of them.

I have had one switch panel fail, and seen a couple of other people’s switch panels fail.

I have also seen some individual buttons become intermittent, and have been able to repair them.

Thanks Paul. I have more stupid questions, please bear with me.

The number on this switch board is 00-00966-010. The other numbers are 16606, 10 BTN PMC SW. M&M shows one on their website but it says programmable and call for availability and purchase. Do you have this 10 button board? How much does a similar board cost?

I take it the boards are used with lights going to lots of different places than how mine is set up, thus the need for the programming? And the programming could possibly be retrieved from my old board? And if it can't then my coach would have to be present in order to fix all this? Are there failure points on this old board that could be repaired without reprogramming?

Before I make any phone calls or anything to do with replacement or such I'm going to go down to the Camelot shortly and cycle the power again, unplug and plug in the switch repeatedly, and if I get the results I'm expecting (which are none) I'm going to pull the front plate and switch board apart and inspect it for a loose wire or burnt looking places. I'm in IL quite a ways from you or M&M.

Sorry for the multitude of questions and thanks again.

[Tom Cherry]

23 hours ago, FishAR said:

Thanks Paul. I have more stupid questions, please bear with me.

The number on this switch board is 00-00966-010. The other numbers are 16606, 10 BTN PMC SW. M&M shows one on their website but it says programmable and call for availability and purchase. Do you have this 10 button board? How much does a similar board cost?

I take it the boards are used with lights going to lots of different places than how mine is set up, thus the need for the programming? And the programming could possibly be retrieved from my old board? And if it can't then my coach would have to be present in order to fix all this? Are there failure points on this old board that could be repaired without reprogramming?

Before I make any phone calls or anything to do with replacement or such I'm going to go down to the Camelot shortly and cycle the power again, unplug and plug in the switch repeatedly, and if I get the results I'm expecting (which are none) I'm going to pull the front plate and switch board apart and inspect it for a loose wire or burnt looking places. I'm in IL quite a ways from you or M&M.

Sorry for the multitude of questions and thanks again.

The experts have spoken.  As a fellow Camelot owner, I will try to field, from my layman's perspective a few answers...and I have HAD a back switch before and Frank and others helped out.  NOW THE FALLACY....we have NO prints on the 2007/2008 Camelots/Septers.  I am using the MY2009 for this discussion.

• Turn off ALL power.  I would disconnect the batteries....both Chassis and House....and make sure a Solar Panel was covered.  I tried to find the 07 print for you.  The 06 did NOT have the Muliplex lights....so hopefully, you have the same basic system as mine.  Leave the power off for a while....more than a few minutes.  Turn OFF the Salesman Solenoid switch on the door.  That will kill your interior lights.  My wiring shows all the Mulitplex powered from it and also the Overhead lights and the fuse box with the house fuses.
• This is where it gets a bit tricky.  There are FOUR devices or "Boxes" that control the system.  Since I am NOT in mine....this is the best info.  There are THREE Boxes with a large Red cable on a terminal.  These are the THREE Intllitec "Modules", with the word MODULE on the boxes.  There is a FOURTH smaller Black Box device or the IPX, that is the "Clock" or some call it a mini brain.  It will have the word....IPX on it.  FWIW.  If you removed the screws on the three Output boxes....that allows them to be moved away.  That panel behind them has a FIVE terminal Strip with FIVE circuit breakers on it.  The incoming is from the Salesman Solenoid.  There are Four 40 Amp Self Resetting circuit breakers.  One to the House main fuse panel and the other Three to EACH of the Multiplex Output Modules. The Fifth is a 30 amp one that goes to Electic Toilet, assuming you have one, in the Bedroom.  The IPX gets its power from the Loop Line of the Red, Yellow and Tan..  I do NOT know if the IPX is behind there on the panel. If you ever have flickering power or the multiplex is flaky....then the reason is that the nuts on the terminal strip and the circuit breakers are LOOSE.  We have had that happen many times.  The fix....remove the panel and tighten up the nuts.
• OK....Now that is clear.  LOL.  As to your "Comment about...I take it....".  Nope.  There is a three wire harness that goes from the furtherest switch to the nearest switch.  Red, Yellow and Tan.  ALL of your Switch Panels or switches are connected to this loop....as is the IPX (brain) and the three Output Modules.  You DO have TWO switches in the MH that have an extra TWO WIRE harness.  The one in the Bathroom where a pump start/stop and the one up front that controls the overhead fluorescent lights.  The driver's door switch for the overhead lights actually has two wires going overhead (or somehow) to the Multiplex Key Pad that has that light on it.  Likewise, the Water or Wet Bay Pump switch as TWO wires that come up to the bathroom Multiplex wall switch and when that switch is pushed on....it acts just like the wall switch.  Every OTHER switch plate only has the THREE wires.
• Each Switch Plate is programmed.  If the PLATE is "OK" and there is a solder (Frank's comment), then the switch can STILL be read and there is a piece of software (Frank and Paul and maybe others....and M & M can copy the program. NOW.....If the switch or the CHIP is damaged....you can STILL get it programmed.  You look at the defective switch.  Then look at each Switch Name.  You have 10.  Then, you go to the THREE MODULE Boxes.  There SHOULD be a sheet near by that tells you WHERE each circuit is.  The modules are labeled as E; F; & G.  There are ten (10) fuses or Circuits on each module.  They are numbered (can't remember which way).  So there are 10 LINES or circuits going out.  Each time you push a SWITCH....you will see a green LIGHT come on ONE of the Modules....right below the fuse.  What you do is go to the SWITCH PANEL that is Defective.  There is redundancy....such as you have maybe THREE "Bath Ceiling Lights".  The ON/OFF (the Latching Module) will have that circuit on it.  If you push one of the OTHER Bath Ceiling Lights.....you will see a GREEN light come on as it is controlled by multiple switches.  SO....the Latching Module (G) has that Fluorescent Circuit.  That G Module has all the ON/OFF (or is SUPPOSED TO) circuits.  They are the three ceiling fans and the FOUR Flourescent Circuits.  THESE do NO DIM.  The OTHER lights that DIM are on the OTHER TWO OUTPUT Modules....as they are dimmable. GOT ALL THAT?  There will be a quiz.  You RIGHT DOWN the code....G - 5 (or whatever) for Bath Ceiling Light.  Then when a new switch is programmed, that Bath Ceiling Light will be G-5.  You keep writing down the codes.....  NOW, if you have a single switch....you have to look on the Schematic or the Diagram and see which Module (E, F or G) that circuit is labeled as.  BINGO....you have the CODE (Module Letter and Circuit Number) for each button....
• It really is SIMPLE....once you sit down and study it....or have to TROUBLE SHOOT IT...  I KNOW>  I can tell you that the Bedroom Ceiling Light will be on the Output Module Box....as it is Fluorescent.  The rest are PROBABLY incandescent.  The "Hutch" may only have ONE switch....mine does....so you need to find the HUTCH Light on the schematic....that is the location for it.  HOPEFULLY, you have the schematic on the panel or whatever near the three Intellitec Modules.  Once you trace or verify the ones with duplicate switches (like the bath and bedroom lights), and write down the rest....you can TRUST the schematic and write down the Module and Circuit Number for the single switch ones.  You can PM me and we'll talk about how to get the programming info....which you DO NEED....in case you ever lose antother switch...
• I would WAIT until I got all the circuits traced and labeled before I did any further work.  The ISSUE is that if you "Takeee APART" and don't get it exactly back in and try it out....you MIGHT damage it....so that if a new switch pad needs programming, you MIGHT have destroyed a "Readable" Switch.  I would talk (PM and set up a call) to either Paul or Frank, if they are willing, before I DID ANY OPEN HEART SURGERY....Just some advice....as Frank worked with me and he got me a new one....and it was totally PLUG and PLAY...
• Good Luck....PM and I'll give you my phone so we can talk.

[pwhittle]

These are a fairly simple circuit board, but it does have a microprocessor on it, so take some care. I can program one without the original, but it is easier with the original.

Can you PM me some pictures of the modules in the closet?

I’ll look to see what I have available.

Paul

Edited October 4, 2022 by pwhittle

[Happycarz]

Tom,

I believe model year 2009 Camelot Intellitec system changed. On my 2008 Camelot, I have only three modules, two for the lights and a third for latching for the fans and water pump circuits. And, I don’t have an IPX, although my modules are in the bathroom and supplied power like you mention above. Also, the modules are D, E & F.   No A, B, C, nor G.  Snowflakes!

The 2007 Camelot’s had the modules in the bedroom closet. In two 2007 Camelot’s I’ve worked on, their modules were like mine, just three. Then in model year 2008 they moved them to the bathroom. Maybe they were trying to get away from the engine heat causing the A/C breakers to trip. Not certain that was the reason, but would be a good guess. 

It didn’t work as I tripped breakers frequently. That is, until I picked up where Monaco left off.  No more tripped breakers in years. This issue is more prevalent in the sun belt.  

I’ll start a new thread for that modification. This is Mikes thread and am trying to stay on point.

I just didn’t want him to be looking for four modules and not find that many.  Maybe Paul could address this.

Harry 

[pwhittle]

The PMC output modules have their address in the system set by dip switches on the module. The keypad buttons are programmed to address an output on a specific module by combining the address of the output module and the output number on that module.

If the output module is non-latching the button must continue to be pressed for the load to stay on. If the output is latching, each button press changes it from off to on. A FET latching output module will turn off and on with a short press, and vary between 8 levels if the button is pressed and held.

Something in the system needs to provide the main signaling for the modules and the keypads to know when to send the signal on the PMC Multiplex bus. I would expect something like a Intellitec MultiPlex Control MASTER 00-00837-000 as the additional module, but there are various configurations available from Intellitec.

Pictures of the modules will help identify the configuration.

Edited October 4, 2022 by pwhittle

[Tom Cherry]

Paul and Harry and Mike....or OTHERS....,

Thanks for chiming in.  First, as usual, providing more information often confuses things.  Second, since we don't have the 2007 prints in the files and based on helping other Camelot owners that have had "flickering lights and other gremlins, That is what I was addressing.  SO....let's break it down....for clarity.

Electrical Glitches or issues in house lighting and other issues....that could impact the reliability of the MPX system...

Harry, 

Thanks for the comments on the location and/or issues with the MY2007/2008 locations.  As I stated....we have no prints.  If you have the prints for your 2008 and/or the 2007's, please PM @Frank McElroyIf you have pictures of what you did for your 2008 to eliminate any wiring issues with the modules or the circuit breakers in the back, please write that up as a "White Paper".  Frank will put it in the file.  You can also "post" or start a Topic as the lead in.  "2008 Monaco Camelot Electrical Upgrade" or something to that effect.  Then attach the White Paper or This is what I did. to it and it will be out there for searches.  If this pertains to MY 2007 as well then title it as appropriate.  I have done these in the past for Sanicon Motor Upgrade (Add relay for switching).  That would be great....  One point to also include....  WHERE IS THE Fantastic Fan Controller located.  In my 2009, it is supposedly BEHIND the mounting panel for the THREE MPX modules....and I THINK that the IPX, which you do not have, is there.  If you have the 2008 Prints, please send to Frank.  All documents are appreciated. Thanks....OK....for clarity, as I stated, we do NOT have prints.  THAT is always a risk.....so lets move on 

Camelot & Scepter "Hybrid MPX" systems....where there is NOT a CPU, like the Dynasty and above. 

The MY2009 shows THREE MPX modules.  Maybe the word OUTPUT was confusing.  I will edit my post accordingly.

Here is a MY2011 Print....which combines two drawings or more detail from the  MY2009 prints.  It shows the power as well as the details on the MPX wiring and such. That makes is much clearer.  However, the switch layout and the circuit numbers are MY specific.  BUT, this is the concept. 

Paul or Harry others.....what Monaco did for the FIRST "Non Dynasty" or no CPU system gets sketchy and M&M has stated a few things that have been confusing.  IF I REREAD Harry's comments, then he has a ORIGINAL Non CPU MPX system....without an IPX, so it MUST share something from the EMS....as M&M stated.  On the print for the 2009 and up, the IPX or PN 00-00837-000 is THERE.  Harry says he does NOT have that....

If Harry does NOT have an IPX, then how exactly IS the system controlled?  In MY2009, there is no connection to the EMS system, that I can find on the prints.   The question would be, rhetorically, if there was no IPX module on the earlier Camelots and Scepters, then could or was there a connection to the Intellitec EMS to "drive or control" the system?  But that is really not germane here.  Bill Groves stated that there was a "Sharing" of a chip on the older EMS systems....but he is not with us to explain now.

The next comment about the "Latching vs Non Latching" MPX system, again gets into areas where, without a print or pictures, I am a bit lost.  To confuse things even MORE....I have had one individual with a 2008, I THINK, (here or probably on the Yahoo sight) post (I did not save it) Monaco layout where there was a MIXTURE of outputs.  Instead of the typical ON/OFF or Non Dimming circuits on the Latching Module, they were some on the Output (Dimming) Modules....and vice versa....some incandescents, which should be dimming, on the Latching Module.

My point...for Mike, was NOT to do any tinkering without having documentation for a potential reprogramming from "scratch". 

Paul, 

I did not know that you could read the DIP switch settings and then reprogram a switch.  I was told that you needed the Module Alpha Letter as well as the 1 - 10 Circuit or Channel Number to properly program a new switch pad.  Guess I should not have gone there....but that was why I went into the detail to write down or document the module and channel numbers for that switch pad before the "messed" with it.

Hope this explains it a bit better..... 

2011 Camelot MUX 38110675B (Schematic Mult.pdf

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

FWIW, I remember sometimes back when Hotrod was still alive that he recommended making a software back up of your multiplex system.  He said that if there was a memory failure and all software was lost, if you did not have the back up that was unique to your coach, you would be dead in the water.

[Frank McElroy]

Chuck, that only applies to multiplex systems typically found on Dynasty and above models with a computer PCM CPU module.  Camelot's and below typically did not have that module.  The. PMC module is in the upper left in the picture of the multiplex system in my coach.