Watts link on 2008 Dynasty - aftermarket bracket issues & information needed

[vipeboy2000]

Hey guys, looking into our new to us 08 dynasty generator space, in the back looks to be some sort of bracing that has come apart... It doesn't look factory, and doesn't look to be part of any suspension components... Anyone know what this is supposed to do?

Thanks!
 

[David White]

8 minutes ago, vipeboy2000 said:

Hey guys, looking into our new to us 08 dynasty generator space, in the back looks to be some sort of bracing that has come apart... It doesn't look factory, and doesn't look to be part of any suspension components... Anyone know what this is supposed to do?

Thanks!
 

I see a Monaco Watts kit, which has been added.  It is a good product to correct some problems with the Roadmaster chassis. But from this angle, it appears to be broken at the center connector on the chassis.

Go to monacowatts.com for information.

Edited May 16, 2023 by David White

[cbr046]

Looks like a bolt assembly might be missing . . . .

- b

[nvrtoofast]

A watts link is a type of panhard bar. a condensed one. It keeps the axle centered in the chassis in bumps while the axle cycles up and down.  Helps keep the wheels planted. a great thing to have.

[David Pratt]

 The previous owner installed the Watts Link to correct the wandering of the Roadmaster chassis. It is not broken, what has happened is the Bolt  loosened and dropped allowing the bushing in the center of the bell crank to fall out. Contact Mike Hughes at monacowatts.com and tell him you need the hardware to re-attach the Bell crank to the center bracket. The center bracket is the plate that is horizontal and welded to the to vertical braces for the generator and has the bolt hole in the center. Maybe Van Will will chime in as he was the designer of the Watts Link.

[vipeboy2000]

Thanks guys!!! great to know and will definitely reach out to them! 

[Tom Cherry]

10 minutes ago, vipeboy2000 said:

Thanks guys!!! great to know and will definitely reach out to them! 

FWIW.  Most of the Watts links, or the history i have, were typically on Camelots and lower or the earlier Dynasty….typically non tag. .  I have one and love it.  There was a test or experiment on an upper end and the report was a slight improvement, but the real impact was that the Blue Ox Trucenter’s impact was enhanced.  I noticed that also.  

I have one of Mike’s kits….and would replace it in a heartbeat.  The Dynasty and above require a special kit and welding to work….as evidenced in the picture.

Just a matter of how far one goes to achieve the “ultimate” as well as what that definition is.  Many knowledgeable Dynasty & up owners with the TRW steering box adjust that and are more than satisfied.  Source Engineering who is a specialist in MONACO and now may be branching out or have been into Spartan did not offer any sway bars for the Dynasty.  The Tag axle units, in all chassis, were less prone to folks needing improvement as well….

i would definitely want to know why the failure occurred and the fix as well as the benefits.  There is a world of info out there….just be informed….

 

[vipeboy2000]

19 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

FWIW.  Most of the Watts links, or the history i have, were typically on Camelots and lower or the earlier Dynasty….typically non tag. .  I have one and love it.  There was a test or experiment on an upper end and the report was a slight improvement, but the real impact was that the Blue Ox Trucenter’s impact was enhanced.  I noticed that also.  

I have one of Mike’s kits….and would replace it in a heartbeat.  The Dynasty and above require a special kit and welding to work….as evidenced in the picture.

Just a matter of how far one goes to achieve the “ultimate” as well as what that definition is.  Many knowledgeable Dynasty & up owners with the TRW steering box adjust that and are more than satisfied.  Source Engineering who is a specialist in MONACO and now may be branching out or have been into Spartan did not offer any sway bars for the Dynasty.  The Tag axle units, in all chassis, were less prone to folks needing improvement as well….

i would definitely want to know why the failure occurred and the fix as well as the benefits.  There is a world of info out there….just be informed….

 

I'll report back with any future responses/fixes.

[DavidL]

I agree with D Pratt that the pivot bolt got loose and got lost.

Should be straightforward to fix.

Hard to tell from the picture if there is a ball bearing involved, or if it was just a greased sleeve bearing.  Probably the latter.

[Jim Pratten]

Agree with others that it appears the bolt backed out, releasing the bushing. Suspect it was assembled without Loctite. As part of the reassembly, I’d inspect the other bolts and use Loctite on any that don’t have locking nuts and/or washers. 

[nvrtoofast]

Just because engineering is cool. Here is a brief video of a watts link in action.

 

[vipeboy2000]

15 minutes ago, nvrtoofast said:

Just because engineering is cool. Here is a brief video of a watts link in action.

 

Thanks! I love learning about these kinds of things.  I love all things cars and motorhomes are just giant cars with house things in it. 

[cbr046]

29 minutes ago, nvrtoofast said:

Just because engineering is cool. Here is a brief video of a watts link in action.

 

"DuckDuckGo blocked this YouTube video to prevent Google from tracking you".  I could watch it, but then they'd be watching me.  Just sayin'.

- bob

[nvrtoofast]

 

4 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

"DuckDuckGo blocked this YouTube video to prevent Google from tracking you".  I could watch it, but then they'd be watching me.  Just sayin'.

- bob

Those Crafty guys... That's why I run a VPN. They are always trying, but I keep evading...

[David Pratt]

Vipeboy 2000

My 05 Exec was the guinea pig for the first watts link to be installed on a Tag Axle Coach. I did all the drawings and specs and sent them to Van. Van built the system. I installed the system myself. The center pivot bolt coming loose happened to me also. When I replaced the Bolt I installed a bolt that was 1/2 inch longer and put a doubled nutted the bolt. No problems after that.

I am attaching the Auto Cad Drawings of the Bellcrank Installation and also the parts list for the Watts Link System. Contact me if you need any further help or have any other questions. Cell phone is 321-427-6909.

Also, just curious as per your handle, do you own a Viper???

atts Link Installation.pdf

Bellcrank Drawing.pdf Bellcrank Mounting Plate.pdf Watts Link Materials.pdf Watts Link Pivot Installation Side view.pdf Watts Link Pivot Installation Top view.pdf

[vipeboy2000]

51 minutes ago, David Pratt said:

Vipeboy 2000

My 05 Exec was the guinea pig for the first watts link to be installed on a Tag Axle Coach. I did all the drawings and specs and sent them to Van. Van built the system. I installed the system myself. The center pivot bolt coming loose happened to me also. When I replaced the Bolt I installed a bolt that was 1/2 inch longer and put a doubled nutted the bolt. No problems after that.

I am attaching the Auto Cad Drawings of the Bellcrank Installation and also the parts list for the Watts Link System. Contact me if you need any further help or have any other questions. Cell phone is 321-427-6909.

Also, just curious as per your handle, do you own a Viper???

atts Link Installation.pdf 36.8 kB · 0 downloads

Bellcrank Drawing.pdf 233.28 kB · 1 download Bellcrank Mounting Plate.pdf 299.36 kB · 1 download Watts Link Materials.pdf 57.96 kB · 1 download Watts Link Pivot Installation Side view.pdf 153.96 kB · 0 downloads Watts Link Pivot Installation Top view.pdf 224.24 kB · 0 downloads

Oh wow! Thanks for all that info! I wonder how many of these tag axle coaches got the watts link installed. I don't know anything of the previous owners upgrades/fixes so it's been a journey figuring out all the intricacies of little issues that were "bandaged" over 🙂 ...

So what I need is a 5/8-11  x 2" long grade 8 hex cap screw, and the relevant double nuts and washers. ? I'm seeing I may be missing a cone spacer and possibly a bronze bushing that goes into the bell crank?

and unfortunately not yet a viper owner... but you are the first to make the correlation with that old username i've been using for years ha!... was my dream car since it came out! some day... 

Edited May 16, 2023 by vipeboy2000

[Tom Cherry]

16 minutes ago, vipeboy2000 said:

Oh wow! Thanks for all that info! I wonder how many of these tag axle coaches got the watts link installed. I don't know anything of the previous owners upgrades/fixes so it's been a journey figuring out all the intricacies of little issues that were "bandaged" over 🙂 ...

So what I need is a 5/8-11  x 2" long grade 8 hex cap screw, and the relevant double nuts and washers. ? 

and unfortunately not yet a viper owner... but you are the first to make the correlation with that old username i've been using for years ha!... was my dream car since it came out! some day... 

An a ex Chief Engineer for a fastener manufacturer, flat washers, one on each end and double nutting would be my choice….maybe some Loctite Blue.  Red is stronger, but with the Blue, they will be easier to break loose…should that be required.  Read the install instructions on Mike’s site and don’t go crazy on lubing the tie rod ends. But really load up the center pivot.  That is a toughie to do properly later on…Don’t ask….

[David Pratt]

When you speak to Mike Hughes he will be able to supply you with the correct parts that you will need to reinstall the bellcrank.properly. You will need the Bronze bushing and Nylon washer that the bolt goes through to mount the bellcrank.

My email address is viperrrr@msn.com. I am on my third and last Viper. Generation III 600HP.

[DavidL]

4 hours ago, David Pratt said:

When you speak to Mike Hughes he will be able to supply you with the correct parts that you will need to reinstall the bellcrank.properly. You will need the Bronze bushing and Nylon washer that the bolt goes through to mount the bellcrank.

My email address is viperrrr@msn.com. I am on my third and last Viper. Generation III 600HP.

Some Viper trivia:  Gen 1 owner's almost got a PalmPilot with their "owner's kit" content on it as the glovebox was too small to fit a standard paper book (s).  More room was found and it got paper.  But those conversations were the beginning of the "In Vehicle Help" app that are in production Stellantis vehicles today.

[vipeboy2000]

15 hours ago, David Pratt said:

When you speak to Mike Hughes he will be able to supply you with the correct parts that you will need to reinstall the bellcrank.properly. You will need the Bronze bushing and Nylon washer that the bolt goes through to mount the bellcrank.

My email address is viperrrr@msn.com. I am on my third and last Viper. Generation III 600HP.

That's a Beaut!!! what generations have you had? I of course want the hard to find 2nd generation 01/02 year GTS... 

 

10 hours ago, DavidL said:

Some Viper trivia:  Gen 1 owner's almost got a PalmPilot with their "owner's kit" content on it as the glovebox was too small to fit a standard paper book (s).  More room was found and it got paper.  But those conversations were the beginning of the "In Vehicle Help" app that are in production Stellantis vehicles today.

That is so fun! that would have been amazing if it happened to have an original working palmpilot owners manual... lol!

[David Pratt]

My first Viper was a 1992 Gen 1, serial number 038. I attached a picture when I took Delivery of it from Chrysler. I also had Gen 2 1997. I always liked the Roadsters over the Coupes. The Viper is a powerful automobile and not for the faint at heart. To an unskilled driver it can get away from you quickly under acceleration and your day will be ruined. Out on the Road with the top down, it doesn't get any better than that.

[Guest Ray Davis]

31 minutes ago, David Pratt said:

My first Viper was a 1992 Gen 1, serial number 038. I attached a picture when I took Delivery of it from Chrysler. I also had Gen 2 1997. I always liked the Roadsters over the Coupes. The Viper is a powerful automobile and not for the faint at heart. To an unskilled driver it can get away from you quickly under acceleration and your day will be ruined. Out on the Road with the top down, it doesn't get any better than that.

Now that's a handsome pair.

[vanwill52]

On 5/16/2023 at 9:48 AM, vipeboy2000 said:

Hey guys, looking into our new to us 08 dynasty generator space, in the back looks to be some sort of bracing that has come apart... It doesn't look factory, and doesn't look to be part of any suspension components... Anyone know what this is supposed to do?

Thanks!
 

That appears to be one of the thirty (approximately) Watts links that I designed and prototyped as a "proof of concept" when I was searching for a cure for the Monaco "wandering".  After the thirty units, the concept was proven successful and I furnished all the info I had to Mike Hughes and agreed to allow him to manufacture and sell the units without me benefiting in any way.  I was only trying to satisfy my engineering curiosity when I designed it.  Even though I owned a CNC machine shop, I had no desire to market the product.

There have been several instances of the center Grade 8 5/8-11 bolt loosening in service.  In hindsight, I wish I had made the bolt 3/4-10 instead of 5/8-11.  However, most installations gave good service.  I do not think Mike will be able to supply you the missing brass bushing and 5/8-11 bolt.  Let me know what length bolt you need, and I will send you the bolt, locking nut, and brass bushing for free.  Just pay $10 for packing and shipping.

Van 

[vipeboy2000]

12 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

That appears to be one of the thirty (approximately) Watts links that I designed and prototyped as a "proof of concept" when I was searching for a cure for the Monaco "wandering".  After the thirty units, the concept was proven successful and I furnished all the info I had to Mike Hughes and agreed to allow him to manufacture and sell the units without me benefiting in any way.  I was only trying to satisfy my engineering curiosity when I designed it.  Even though I owned a CNC machine shop, I had no desire to market the product.

There have been several instances of the center Grade 8 5/8-11 bolt loosening in service.  In hindsight, I wish I had made the bolt 3/4-10 instead of 5/8-11.  However, most installations gave good service.  I do not think Mike will be able to supply you the missing brass bushing and 5/8-11 bolt.  Let me know what length bolt you need, and I will send you the bolt, locking nut, and brass bushing for free.  Just pay $10 for packing and shipping.

Van 

Everyone has been so helpful here I am amazed and grateful!!.  I will message you the details privately after I crawl under and measure. Looking at the materials list/installation diagrams David provided it looks like I either need a 2 or 2.5 inch long bolt.. 

[nvrtoofast]

12 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

That appears to be one of the thirty (approximately) Watts links that I designed and prototyped as a "proof of concept" when I was searching for a cure for the Monaco "wandering".  After the thirty units, the concept was proven successful and I furnished all the info I had to Mike Hughes and agreed to allow him to manufacture and sell the units without me benefiting in any way.  I was only trying to satisfy my engineering curiosity when I designed it.  Even though I owned a CNC machine shop, I had no desire to market the product.

There have been several instances of the center Grade 8 5/8-11 bolt loosening in service.  In hindsight, I wish I had made the bolt 3/4-10 instead of 5/8-11.  However, most installations gave good service.  I do not think Mike will be able to supply you the missing brass bushing and 5/8-11 bolt.  Let me know what length bolt you need, and I will send you the bolt, locking nut, and brass bushing for free.  Just pay $10 for packing and shipping.

Van 

Nice stuff Van W. Just curious. Why did you put the pivot point on the chassis and not the axle as it is normally is seen? Space requirements? 
Is there a place to buy the upgrade part currently?