Les Hurdle Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 As I read the forums I have to wonder who is in charge of quality control at the manufacturers, good grief, so many issues. Anyway, a while ago I was asking questions about air bags, my coach does settle when air is expelled and I have to presume the airbags are down. I have tried every which way as prescribed by many 'fellows' as to how and when to use jacks, extend slides etc. I have opted to follow the manual [until proven wrong], slides out, dump air then use jacks. I note the coach rise on the jacks in the correct order, add a tad more air in the front after leveling, but the coach rocks when people enter or when moving about inside. Being a newbie I am 'terrified' of stretching/splitting airbags etc so do not want to extend jacks further [presuming that might do the trick] putting tyres off the ground. Given the jacks support is a tricycle affair, is the coach always going to rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 stretching an airbag is not really a concern. I think they are only attached on one end... someone else can confirm that. The coach should not rock, at least when you first level it. Sometimes after a few days you might get some settling and have to adjust again to stop it from rocking. All of this really depends on the degree of slope you have that you are parking on. You should be able to level without having a tire off the ground which is really dangerous as if you have that much slope it can roll off the jacks. It sounds like you have automatic leveling since you say they rise in the correct order. Frankly, I may start with the auto level, but then adjust as mine has never really done a perfect job of it. Obviously, if it is rocking then one of the jacks is not down or perhaps it has a leak. Does it always rock, or is it something that happens over time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 If your air bags are deflated and jacks extended raising the coach more will probably have minimal affect on the "Rocking" Not sure what the difference is but when I'm parked with air bags deflated and jacks down my coach is pretty solid. Not saying I can't feel motion but it's a heck of a lot better then my Class with no jacks or airbags, just suspension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinvz Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 My coach does not have air bags but have 4 jacks. Even with this setup the coach does move some. Not a good comparison but even we cannot expect a rock solid coach when parked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhReally Posted June 10, 2023 Share Posted June 10, 2023 Les, your jacks are connected to your vehicle chassis and not the body. Your airbags are between the chassis and the body. Your jacks level the frame and dumping air allows the vehicle body to settle on the frame. Stretching airbags should only be an issue if you jack a wheel off the ground. Even then, the shock absorber extend limit should run out before you stretch airbags. If you get rocking after leveling you either have a wheel off or almost off the ground, a jack without much weight on it or the jacks are too far extended from their retracted position. You should always limit any one or more jack's extension to only what is necessary to level. As far as the order of air dump, jacks extended, slides out, I don't disagree with how you read the manufacturer's recommendations but it is far more important to go by my guidelines above when leveling and do not try to make a bad camping spot work for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvtips Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 It is the cheap 3 jack system they went to !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throgmartin Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 I will tackle this first with the proper procedure for setting up once parked. ALWAYS extend your slides while at ride height. In other words, as soon as you are parked, extend your slides. Then dump your air ( down to 30 lbs is sufficient ). Then extend your jacks and start leveling. If you have the tri-pod jack system, always extend your front jack first. The reason for extending your slides while at ride height is because your slides were adjusted at the factory at ride height. When I first bought my coach I didn't know this. I followed what others said on the internet and would dump air, level then extend my slides. I always had a couple slides that operated a little hard or sounded like they were binding. One of my buddies was in charge of setting up slides at the Monaco factory and he was the one who told me - " Never extend your slides after you level. You will bind and over work your slide assemblies/motors ". So how did they air up a coach at the factory to ride height without starting the engine ? They used an air hose and connected at the air inlet found on all of our coaches at the back. In regards to the 3 jack system ? There is a reason why they went to this setup. Some people thought Monaco got cheap and tried saving money using one less jack. The actual truth is it saves from blowing out windshields or cracking them not to mention twisting the frame and popping upper belt lines.. I have watched people with 4 jack systems and some get crazy with jacking one front corner at a time. This twists the frame which twists the windshield opening which also stresses the upper belt line. I have sat in a chair and watched owners with the 4 jack system rock, roll and twist the hell out of their coaches trying to level. The 3 jack system eliminates the twisting. You put down the front jack first. Then you deploy the rear jacks one at a time. It is a dance and as you level you make small adjustments of the rear jacks one at a time - right then left then right then left. It isn't a race to get leveled, you approach leveling slowly. This is why I hate jack systems with auto leveling. The auto feature tends to be aggressive and applies a lot of twisting forces to the front and rear caps. Some coach owners think their coaches have this massive frame and superstructure and there is no flex in the body or frame. This is not true. Any force ( deployment of jacks ) at a corner will transmit a twist to the opposite end of the coach. You raise the right rear, that force is transmitted to the left front ( and vice versa ). This is why we see so many upper popped belt lines on the driver front as well as the passenger and driver rear. I ran a financial report for my company and found that 30 % of our revenue is generated from repairing upper belt lines. There are other causes for popped belt lines but leveling is a big culprit. In regards to windshields, another buddy of mine replaces them for a living. He is one of the best glass guys in the business. We were doing a show together and during some downtime got to talking about popped windshields. He was telling me about customers who would get overly aggressive while jacking and not only pop their windshields but twist the front cockpit structure so bad they had to have a halo system installed ( rebuild the cockpit frame ). This happens a lot on the cheaper non Monaco brands , especially gasser's. One of my friends new to motorhomes was leveling his coach and twisted his front frame so bad that it not only popped the windshield but also separated the front passenger sidewall from the floor. He ended up having to have a halo installed and the front cockpit area rebuilt. This was on a cheap gas motorhome. Moral of the story ? Be nice to your coach when leveling. Go slow and easy............................. 🙂 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Hurdle Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 Many thanks for the info............. no matter what I do the coach 'rocks'. Please excuse my ignorance, what are belt lines? L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, Les Hurdle said: Many thanks for the info............. no matter what I do the coach 'rocks'. Please excuse my ignorance, what are belt lines? L There are upper and lower belt lines that cover the seams of the body walls. In the search bar on this forum, type belt line repair. Great video and info there. Monaco was known for using non stainless steel hardware to hold the beltline in place. These rust out and need repair over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throgmartin Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Steven P said: There are upper and lower belt lines that cover the seams of the body walls. In the search bar on this forum, type belt line repair. Great video and info there. Monaco was known for using non stainless steel hardware to hold the beltline in place. These rust out and need repair over time. Steve is correct. What makes them rust out is water entering the top of the belt line when the caulking separates and opens up. The water then enters the channel on the beltline and will run in both directions rusting the screws. Once the screws rust the beltline pops and opens up. At this point water enters the sidewalls and causes delamination. It will also travel down to the floor and rot the floor out. You should check your beltlines continuously, looking for bulges. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Ask me how I know!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolR Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 (edited) Is the vinyl trim still available to purchase? Edited June 11, 2023 by CarolR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Hurdle Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 went to the Q section could not find a video ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 Try this: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throgmartin Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 2 hours ago, CarolR said: Is the vinyl trim still available to purchase? Yes but I believe it only comes in white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 1 hour ago, throgmartin said: I will tackle this first with the proper procedure for setting up once parked. ALWAYS extend your slides while at ride height. In other words, as soon as you are parked, extend your slides. Then dump your air ( down to 30 lbs is sufficient ). Then extend your jacks and start leveling. If you have the tri-pod jack system, always extend your front jack first. The reason for extending your slides while at ride height is because your slides were adjusted at the factory at ride height. When I first bought my coach I didn't know this. I followed what others said on the internet and would dump air, level then extend my slides. I always had a couple slides that operated a little hard or sounded like they were binding. One of my buddies was in charge of setting up slides at the Monaco factory and he was the one who told me - " Never extend your slides after you level. You will bind and over work your slide assemblies/motors ". So how did they air up a coach at the factory to ride height without starting the engine ? They used an air hose and connected at the air inlet found on all of our coaches at the back. In regards to the 3 jack system ? There is a reason why they went to this setup. Some people thought Monaco got cheap and tried saving money using one less jack. The actual truth is it saves from blowing out windshields or cracking them not to mention twisting the frame and popping upper belt lines.. I have watched people with 4 jack systems and some get crazy with jacking one front corner at a time. This twists the frame which twists the windshield opening which also stresses the upper belt line. I have sat in a chair and watched owners with the 4 jack system rock, roll and twist the hell out of their coaches trying to level. The 3 jack system eliminates the twisting. You put down the front jack first. Then you deploy the rear jacks one at a time. It is a dance and as you level you make small adjustments of the rear jacks one at a time - right then left then right then left. It isn't a race to get leveled, you approach leveling slowly. This is why I hate jack systems with auto leveling. The auto feature tends to be aggressive and applies a lot of twisting forces to the front and rear caps. Some coach owners think their coaches have this massive frame and superstructure and there is no flex in the body or frame. This is not true. Any force ( deployment of jacks ) at a corner will transmit a twist to the opposite end of the coach. You raise the right rear, that force is transmitted to the left front ( and vice versa ). This is why we see so many upper popped belt lines on the driver front as well as the passenger and driver rear. I ran a financial report for my company and found that 30 % of our revenue is generated from repairing upper belt lines. There are other causes for popped belt lines but leveling is a big culprit. In regards to windshields, another buddy of mine replaces them for a living. He is one of the best glass guys in the business. We were doing a show together and during some downtime got to talking about popped windshields. He was telling me about customers who would get overly aggressive while jacking and not only pop their windshields but twist the front cockpit structure so bad they had to have a halo system installed ( rebuild the cockpit frame ). This happens a lot on the cheaper non Monaco brands , especially gasser's. One of my friends new to motorhomes was leveling his coach and twisted his front frame so bad that it not only popped the windshield but also separated the front passenger sidewall from the floor. He ended up having to have a halo installed and the front cockpit area rebuilt. This was on a cheap gas motorhome. Moral of the story ? Be nice to your coach when leveling. Go slow and easy............................. 🙂 @Les Hurdle I was tempted to link an old rocker to a rockin’ MH….but will resist. We always learn. Many of us have no leveling jacks and our air bags (air springs) are what we use to level. So, now i know, leveling from travel is the recommended procedure. I don’t do it as I want the MH as low as i can get it so the step is lower for DW’s bum knee. Follow what Chris says 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlgnd Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 21 hours ago, Steven P said: Try this: awesome video thank you, need to do this to my 2003 Camelot. You made it look so easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven P Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 I can't take credit. I'm just sharing the video. @Scotty Hutto deserves the credit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Hurdle Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 [Yes old Rockers refuse to die !@!]] My previous coach as of about 4 weeks ago was a 98 Storm........ 4 jacks. Had to add some special Caterpillar oil to the jacks and they then never 'bumped' in the night and I never broke a windscreen. Where my Cheetah is located the right rear wheel is supported by wood since the ground is not level. After deploying the slides, emptying out air I have tried using jacks to their fullest length required to do the job........... I have also made up pads of the plastic supports [4" thick] to lessen the amount of jack length required. When level etc I have also raised the single front jack but still ye olde coache moves side to side. I'll try one more thing since the plastic could be squishing, I'll try 4" wood blocks under the jacks and see what happens. Watch this space;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 Les, it really sounds like you have an area that requires to much leveling. Perhaps post a picture of your set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Hurdle Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 HI Jim, This is how my rig is positioned at the moment......... long story, but it is partially undercover with the front wheels on concrete, the back two on gravel. The right rear wheel is lifted up about 1 1/2" at which point the coach is almost level. In the pics I show the plastic supports being used which I will change for wooden blocks. No matter plastic or jacks on the ground the coach has a tendency to 'wallow' side to side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 I am not familiar with your specific coach, so hopefully someone else can also comment, but it looks like you have room to let the air bags down and/or lower the front? That would obviously let the rear come down some as well. Just a guess but, I suspect with the rear jacks extended that far, you are going to get some wobble. Perhaps try finding some level ground that does not need much jacking and see if you can get it level without having the back up so high. If the wobble is less, then that gives you some info. If it still wobbles, then perhaps its just a function of your coaches frame/character. Again, hopefully some other folks with that style coach can give some insight into if this is a "normal" situation or if you have other and much larger problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Hurdle Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 Hi Jim, Well spotted. On another thread I discussed airbags. As far as I can tell the bags are 'down'.......... I follow the manual, pump the brake down to 60psi, dump, I even go to the rear and open the valves to allow whatever is left to escape and what you see is as far down as the frame goes. I don't think it is correct, but where else might I 'lose' air? Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlgnd Posted June 13, 2023 Share Posted June 13, 2023 they moved me back to where i started, spot is level and just need to put jacks down enough to touch my blocks. Now we find out how firm the ground is as i have had to dig out a couple blocks in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djlgnd Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Wow That is nothing, when we had to move due to flooding my front tires were three feet in the air so an inch and a half is nothing. Yes the backs were on the ground but at least coach was level. Back now at original pad and all 4 tires are back on ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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