Belt Line (noise?)

[J Goddard]

Front driver's side belt line above electrical bay is displaying evidence of popped fasteners (see photos). I have been watching this area and have noticed that the bumps in the rubber trim are becoming more pronounced over the past few trips. 

The information in this forum - especially input from @Scotty Hutto and @throgmartin is thorough and I believe extremely valuable. So I understand what needs to be done. 

And here is the cool part...we are on our way (from the Pacific NW) to a shop in northern Indiana for some major work. This may likely spark some of you to comment about questionable efforts or spending, but here it goes. The shop will be replacing both sidewalls to eliminate the thermal checking. Each year the checking gets worse and more unsightly. And we like this coach and have redone the interior.  Anyway, a couple of necessary biproducts of this work are (1) all beltlines will be removed, replaced, and resealed and (2) a brand new paint scheme of our choosing. I have communicated to the shop that I want the beltlines installed with the 18-8 Stainless Steel Blind Rivets, Domed Head, 3/16" Diameter - I even sent the shop an excerpt of "Belt Line Repair" thread by @Scotty Hutto

Anyway, here is my question.... could this popped beltline (at least I think this is what is referred to as a "popped beltline") contribute to a 'clunk' or 'deep click' noise when traversing over small bumps and pavement undulations at low speed? The reason that I ask this is that my DW and I are hearing a new noise on our current journey. From the driver's seat, the clunk sounds like it is coming directly from the front driver's side.

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by J Goddard

[JOHN McCLURE]

I have a '05 DIP, very much interested. On my way to check, Thanks-- John M

[cbr046]

On our 2003 Endeavor (Dip sister) the belt line screws were totally rusted.  When I removed the trim piece there was nothing holding the bay door hinge screws, which were also rusted.  I went to open the Front Run Bay and the door fell off in my hand.  Be careful opening!

There's no metal holding that trim piece in place and the wood behind it is rotten.  I pumped the holes with liquid nails then screwed into that while adding a few extra screws.  Maybe not the best method . . . .  but without removing the flooring above it was the best I think of.  Fortunately there was solid metal behind the hinge screws so they weren't an issue.  I used stainless steel screws. 

The hardest part was separating the VHB tape from the belt line molding and trim piece. 

- bob

[jacwjames]

Hard to tell from the pictures as to how the door hinge is attached to the side of the coach, I assume that it goes up under the belt molding and is secured with the screws through the metal that the belt molding attaches to.  It appears there is a good number of the screws in the section you show. 

If that is the case the noise could be coming from the doors moving, maybe the latching mechanism making the clunk/clicking noise.

[J Goddard]

Update after another day of driving…

I have changed my thought as to the source of the clunck/click noise. Only happens at low speed when the front cap / windshield is being torqued. Examples are when entering or exiting a parking lot or slow turn when the coach leans a little bit. Now that we are hyper focused on this, my wife and I believe it is originating off the windshield. 

A few days ago, during my pre-underpays, I applied some black Sikiflex at the top of the windshield area on the driver’s side - specifically between the rubber gutter and the window gasket. It looked like it had a bit of a crack there that needed attention. Did I screw up? Would this keep the windshield from properly ‘floating”?

ADMINS: Maybe this thread should be renamed?

[throgmartin]

First let me say that the clunking could be a loose shock.

Secondly, I have a great deal of experience with new sidewall's being installed. One of our members had this done and the sidewalls delaminated in a matter of a couple weeks. The cause of the delam was the company replacing the sidewalls did not follow the industry standards for materials ( adhesives ) as well as the process for installation. After the new sidewalls delaminated, the owner contacted me and asked if I would testify as an expert witness. Long story short, I agreed. The RV Service companies insurance carrier lost the case and settled. They could not find another expert witness that could overcome my testimony.  My testimony was nothing more then the industry standard protocols which they never followed.

The process is very detailed and involved. It is not a matter of hanging new walls and painting. The materials, especially the adhesives not to mention the clamping process, which is detailed, decides the outcome of the job. The owner was smart and took detailed pictures throughout the process which assisted me in finding all the mistakes the company made ( and there were many ) while doing the work.

Before you agree to this work you need to do your due diligence. Do they use pre-built Filon panels or do they glue up their own panels using Filon rolls ? If they glue up their own then run. Side panels for a coach are made with a machine and after the adhesive is applied, 6,000 lbs of force is applied to the panel. Further, this is all done in an environmentally controlled atmosphere where temperature, humidity and air quality is constantly maintained. The panels are applied to the sidewall beams using a special adhesive and then are held in place using a specific clamping procedure. It is left that way till the adhesive cures.

Any variation from this procedure will result in exactly what happened to the Monaco member I am talking about above. I seen his coach afterwards and the delamination was horrific. My heart broke for him and his wife. You could look down the sidewalls of his coach and it was nothing but waves of delam.

My point is this - Hanging new sidewalls is very specialized work and you want to work with a reputable company who not only has a vast amount of experience with these types of projects but also is fully insured in case the job goes sideways. You also want a warranty In WRITING. 90 days or even 6 months is not acceptable. The company in Florida that did the work for the owner had a lot of experience hanging new walls - on travel trailers. They had no experience doing large/tall walls found on a diesel pusher. Whatever company you are having do this I would dig deep into their reputation and skill sets. I know what the costs are for these jobs so be sure and investigate before you pour a ton of money into this project.

[Tom Cherry]

Chris and others are the experts.  Typically a Clunk or Thump (in MY limited experience, but others also) can be many things.  ASSUMING there are no "obvious" chassis issues....this is what I found on my Camelot and also have been chasing as it comes back.  NOT ALL LIKE THIS...but it never hurts to look.

If the Shock is a Stud style upper mount.  THAT IS THE FIRST SUSPECT.  Tightening is a PITA, But, a ratcheting (flat style that you flip over...NOT a switch) is what the Source folks and their local subcontractor uses.  On the Bilsteins, you pull down the cover, put a small (needle nose) pair of locking pliers on the TOP of the shaft...not on the THREADED section.  The top of the shaft, under the mount, never contacts a seal.  LOCK IT DOWN.  Then loosen or tighten.

Next up...  The curved panel over each wheel will work loose...or at LEAST on the Camelots.  It is attached from UNDERNEATH and there are 2 drive screws.  I added one in the middle and then two more for a total of 5.  BE CAREFUL.  Don't drive and seat with your drill.  Back off and then hand tighten to keep the gap or crack or space tight.

FINALLY.  OK...THIS ONE BUGGED ME.  I checked the shocks.  The screws were tight.  FINALLY, I looked underneath and the stave or reinforcing rod that held the bottom of the curved fender to mine, were LOOSE.  I bent a little and finally then got it reasonably straight and drove in a new screw.  Some folks will fab up a new rod.  BUT, if the two bottom staves come loose....it will vibrate and drive you crazy at some lower speeds and disappear as you speed up or road noise muffles it...

[J Goddard]

Thanks to all for the input; I do appreciate it. 

@throgmartin, your insight will be extremely useful in the discussions and fact finding that will take place over the next several days when we arrive at the shop. And no, it will not be late to run. What I believe is that they use pre-built panels, but I intend to validate that tomorrow.

In my quest to locate a shop for the thermal checking work, one shop in CA solution was to grind, grind, sand, etc and then lay down fiberglass fabric from a roll and resin. Another shop proposed grind, grind, sand, etc and then apply vinylester resin. 

I will update when I know more. 

Jeff

[throgmartin]

Jeff:

One reason why I know so much about our body panels is because one of my closest friends who was the supervisor of body and paint at the Monaco factory. He was my mentor on body, paint and slides.

In fact he was in charge of the Monaco/Dow Corning body retrofit program. For a back story, Dow changed the chemical makeup for the manufacturing of the body panels. What happened is that their new chemical formula didn't work. It created tiny gas bubbles inside the fiberglass which when heated by the sun would bubble and escape to the surface, creating the check marks. Monaco sued them and they settled for millions of dollars. Monaco then started fixing the check marks under warranty for a short period of time until they started realizing that grinding and sanding would not rid the fiberglass of the checking. It kept coming back.

Monaco then developed and started doing overlayment of the fiberglass which did work. Problem is it cost Monaco a great deal of money. They stopped covering the checking under warranty and basically told owners to go pound sand.

Unfortunately, many RV body shops never got the memo that sanding and grinding the check marks out would NOT cure the problem. Sadly, many coach owners paid big money to have the check marks fixed but after a year or two the check marks came back as the fiberglass kept off-gassing. The only true fix is to replace the walls and I already have covered that in my previous post.

If you look at a Monaco coach that has check marks, I can almost guarantee those check marks are appearing the most on dark colors. Dark colors absorb UV rays and the subsequent heat transfers right into the fiberglass creating off gassing. My coach, an 05 Monaco, has a great deal of check marks and guess where they are ? On the black stripe. My fix for the check marks is not to look at it. 🙂

If any body shop tells you they have a permanent fix for check marks, run, don't walk.

[Scotty Hutto]

On 7/25/2023 at 9:57 PM, throgmartin said:

My fix for the check marks is not to look at it. 🙂

Chris,

Amazingly I use that same fix for most cosmetic flaws on my coach. 🤪 maybe you taught it in one of your seminars?