Refrigerator electrical plug

[Dragracer]

My Norco stopped cooling. I removed it & plan on installing a Frigidaire 13.9 cu ft house refrigerator.  The Norco was plugged into a electrical plug that has 2 romex wires going to it. Why is there 2 romax wires going to this plug? From searching on this site looks like the plug is for the icemaker. Can I plug the house refrigerator into this plug?

[Dr4Film]

One of those romex wires and outlet was for the NotSoCold fridge that is NOT powered by the Inverter. The second romex wire is for the second outlet that is for the ice maker and hopefully that is powered by the Inverter.

You just have to determine which one is powered all the time not just when hooked to shore power or generator power.

[Mike Wahl]

I recently removed my Norcold and replaced it with a residential Refrigerator.  My 2001 Signature had 2 outlets.  The Norcold was plugged into the invertor and the ice maker was plugged into the shore/generator.  

I removed the RV outlets, (which I think are of poor quality) and replaced it with one outlet.  I removed tab/bridge on the hot side of the receptacle.  Then ran the invertor to the bottom outlet and the shore/generator to the top outlet.

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[TomV48]

That looks like a single socketed outlet.  If so the Romex may be looping to the next outlet.   The secret in most of our rigs is two separate outlets for our Norcold frig.  One is on inverter, for the ice maker.  One is only on shore power or genset.  That is the one for the AC side of the Gas/AC operation of our frig.   When our gas side got too unsafe to use we ran by swopping the plugs.  But know what you are doing.  That frig pulled a bit over 4 amps AC but that is over 40 amps from the batteries to the inverter.   The Norcold on AC ran continuously but the saving grace of a res/compressor frig is that it cycles on and off.   I remember mom yelling SHUT THAT d*** FRIG DOOR,  to save electricity.   GOOD LUCK.

Edited August 15, 2023 by TomV48
Was a hard read

[Dragracer]

When the generator is off & I'm not plugged into shore power the plug is dead. With the generator running the plug has 110 volts. Also when plugged into shore power the plug has 110 volts. So 1 wire must be for the generator & the other for shore power. Looks like the inverter is not connected to the plug. I guess the notsocold was operating off 12 volts when the generator was off & unplugged from shore power. The OEM Trace inverter has been replaced by a WFCO WF 68100 inverter. From what Incan figure out all this inverter does is charge the house batteries. When the coach is unplugged from shore power & the generator is off there isn't any 110 volts to anything. However the 68100 is plugged into a electrical plug in the compartment beside it. How can I hook up the plug to the inverter? 

[TomV48]

5 minutes ago, Dragracer said:

When the generator is off & I'm not plugged into shore power the plug is dead. With the generator running the plug has 110 volts. Also when plugged into shore power the plug has 110 volts. So 1 wire must be for the generator & the other for shore power. Looks like the inverter is not connected to the plug. I guess the notsocold was operating off 12 volts when the generator was off & unplugged from shore power. The OEM Trace inverter has been replaced by a WFCO WF 68100 inverter. From what Incan figure out all this inverter does is charge the house batteries. When the coach is unplugged from shore power & the generator is off there isn't any 110 volts to anything. However the 68100 is plugged into a electrical plug in the compartment beside it. How can I hook up the plug to the inverter? 

Normally.  (I say that because who knows what modifications have been made that would be unnormal),,, Normally, that would not be how it works. The choice of generator or shore power occurs where your power cord and generator lines go in to the transfer switch and come out as the feed to the entire coach.   If you're Nocold had a ice maker they would normally be another outlet back there somewhere that is live on the inverter to make ice when you were running on gas.   Inverters "normally" pass shore or genset power right through and shut down their inverter function and let's their outlets run on the shore power/generator and If you had no ice maker,  that outlet probably isn't there

[Dragracer]

10 minutes ago, TomV48 said:

Normally.  (I say that because who knows what modifications have been made that would be unnormal),,, Normally, that would not be how it works. The choice of generator or shore power occurs where your power cord and generator lines go in to the transfer switch and come out as the feed to the entire coach.   If you're Nocold had a ice maker they would normally be another outlet back there somewhere that is live on the inverter to make ice when you were running on gas.   Inverters "normally" pass shore or genset power right through and shut down their inverter function and let's their outlets run on the shore power/generator and If you had no ice maker,  that outlet probably isn't there

Yep I only have 1 outlet for the notsocold & a 12 volt DC hot & ground. From What I'm figuring out I'm going to need to get me another inverter to run the house fridge off battery power while traveling if I don't run the generator. Since I'm in Texas & it's 100 plus everyday we have been running the generator while traveling to power the AC's to stay cool. But when it cools off & we don't need the AC's that's when I will need a inverter to run the fridge. I don't think the WF 68100 is nothing but a battery charger.  

[cbr046]

Not sure if you're in a rush but I just bought one of these to have cold drinks up front. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CB868H1F

In a test run it works REALLY well. 

You could pick one up for the stuff that NEEDS to stay cold while you sort out power & residential fridge.  They come in different sizes and run on 12V or 120V.  I figure on powering it on 12V from the seat (need to check wiring & fuse sizes).  If not the FRB is right under the driver. 

As for your inverter . . . . . my choice would be a dedicated inverter of suitable size (500w?) to #1 give extra capacity for the coach inverter and #2 not needing to run the coach inverter 24/7.  If you have an ice maker maybe not as that would call for a larger inverter.  Will the new fridge accept MSW or PSW (Modified vs Pure Sine Wave)?

- bob

[TomV48]

52 minutes ago, Dragracer said:

Yep I only have 1 outlet for the notsocold & a 12 volt DC hot & ground. From What I'm figuring out I'm going to need to get me another inverter to run the house fridge off battery power while traveling if I don't run the generator. Since I'm in Texas & it's 100 plus everyday we have been running the generator while traveling to power the AC's to stay cool. But when it cools off & we don't need the AC's that's when I will need a inverter to run the fridge. I don't think the WF 68100 is nothing but a battery charger.  

Well if you hunt around under behind and near the cavity from the no cold you might find a loop from your inverter. BTW what inverter do you have?   If you are planning long runs where you'll be living off the grid and off the generator then the operative word will be batteries and probably solar.   Be sure you have enough DC current for the new frig.

I built my lithium batteries from parts but at today's prices and availability you can easily put 400 amps of lithium batteries and probably 600 amps in the space formerly occupied by four golf cart batteries.   

If you do plan to install a separate inverter for the fridge I would suggest finding the most efficient one you can find and a good brand name as opposed to the dozen junkie ones you can get on Amazon.  I have enjoyed working with Don Rowe inverters out of Oregon.   Use something like a kill- a-watt meter and learn how much the new frig will use before you finalize your project plans.  Remember to fuse or, I prefer BREAKER, on all battery hook ups.   Study the victron Smart Shunt and use it to track battery use. 

So much to learn.   Study, learn and enjoy.

Good luck

[bandmmorris]

I recently switched to a residential frig. To have power to it all the time I ran a wire from an outlet on the opposite side of the bay under the frig that was hot all the time. It has been a year and have not had any problems. 

[Tom Cherry]

48 minutes ago, bandmmorris said:

I recently switched to a residential frig. To have power to it all the time I ran a wire from an outlet on the opposite side of the bay under the frig that was hot all the time. It has been a year and have not had any problems. 

FWIW,

You should have had TWO receptacles in the Rear or access area behind the refrigerator.  ONE should have run directly off your Inverter. It probably fed from the GFCI in the hall (vanity sink) area.  There MAY have been two wires on the LOAD side (probably the bottom) of that GFCI. If you do some experimenting, you should find that ONE of those lines goes directly to the Refrigerator Ice Maker outlet in the rear of the refrigerator. The other outlet in there was directly from the Refrigerator Breaker on the main panel. Most folks move the outlet for the icemaker from the BOTTOM of the GFCI to the Top or the LINE.  That GCFI circuit is fed directly from the Inverter.

I say SHOULD, you need to look at your prints.  If you pull out the GFCI and disconnect ONE of the bottom lines, you will lose power to either the interior outlets (around the sink) or to the ice maker.  You MIGHT find that when you do that, you also will lose power to the other outlet...the one you found.  If that is the CASE, then you should move that outlet to the top. If you have an old or original 20 A GFCI, it should be replaced with a new one.  Eaton Wiring Device, Leviton or Hubbell.  Make sure you read the instruction and understand LINE vs LOAD.  By moving either the line your ran or the icemaker from the LOAD side of the GFCI, you protect the refrigerator as a false positive, like when the icemaker cycles, will trip the GFCI.  

That is the way it should have been first, but Monaco did not wire it correctly.

Again...if you have NO issues,... FINE.  BUT be aware, the Refrigerator may (Nothing wrong with it....just how it is made) can trip a GFCI.  Your home refrigerator is probably NOT on a GFCI...same deal...nuance tripping.

I would at least replace that GFCI or carry a spare.  It WILL (that is a FACT) start to drive you crazy. Good Luc,

[Dragracer]

48 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

FWIW,

You should have had TWO receptacles in the Rear or access area behind the refrigerator.  ONE should have run directly off your Inverter. It probably fed from the GFCI in the hall (vanity sink) area.  There MAY have been two wires on the LOAD side (probably the bottom) of that GFCI. If you do some experimenting, you should find that ONE of those lines goes directly to the Refrigerator Ice Maker outlet in the rear of the refrigerator. The other outlet in there was directly from the Refrigerator Breaker on the main panel. Most folks move the outlet for the icemaker from the BOTTOM of the GFCI to the Top or the LINE.  That GCFI circuit is fed directly from the Inverter.

I say SHOULD, you need to look at your prints.  If you pull out the GFCI and disconnect ONE of the bottom lines, you will lose power to either the interior outlets (around the sink) or to the ice maker.  You MIGHT find that when you do that, you also will lose power to the other outlet...the one you found.  If that is the CASE, then you should move that outlet to the top. If you have an old or original 20 A GFCI, it should be replaced with a new one.  Eaton Wiring Device, Leviton or Hubbell.  Make sure you read the instruction and understand LINE vs LOAD.  By moving either the line your ran or the icemaker from the LOAD side of the GFCI, you protect the refrigerator as a false positive, like when the icemaker cycles, will trip the GFCI.  

That is the way it should have been first, but Monaco did not wire it correctly.

Again...if you have NO issues,... FINE.  BUT be aware, the Refrigerator may (Nothing wrong with it....just how it is made) can trip a GFCI.  Your home refrigerator is probably NOT on a GFCI...same deal...nuance tripping.

I would at least replace that GFCI or carry a spare.  It WILL (that is a FACT) start to drive you crazy. Good Luc,

This is the only plug I can find. I removed the old norco fridge. It was hooked up to 12 volts, propane & this electrical plug. This plug is hot when the generator is running or when plugged into shore power. Evidently i dont have a 12v DC  to 110 v AC inverter. The only thing my inverter  does is charge the house batteries. Is this plug a GFCI?

Edited August 15, 2023 by Dragracer

[bandmmorris]

Neither of the outlets I had behind the frig had any power unless the generator was running or I was plugged into shore power. With the connection I made I have power all the time and have never had any problems.

[Dragracer]

1 minute ago, bandmmorris said:

Neither of the outlets I had behind the frig had any power unless the generator was running or I was plugged into shore power. With the connection I made I have power all the time and have never had any problems.

How are you getting power all the time without the generator or being plugged in? 

[bandmmorris]

From the inverter.

[jacwjames]

42 minutes ago, bandmmorris said:

Neither of the outlets I had behind the frig had any power unless the generator was running or I was plugged into shore power. With the connection I made I have power all the time and have never had any problems.

Sounds like previous owner replaced the inverter/charger with just a converter/charger  https://wfcoelectronics.com/product/wf-68100a-deck-mount-converter-charger/

This works if you don't boon dock or willing to run your generator full time.  

I helped another poster on IRV2 who was having trouble with his rig, his EMS was working correctly, he wasn't seeing the load meter when generator was running and it wasn't able to use all the loads (AC etc).  Ultimately we found that the wire was not connected at the inverter location BUT the previous owner did the same thing, swapped out inverter with a converter.  An expensive issue to fix if you want the full functionality of the RV. 

 

[bandmmorris]

Since I have lithium batteries and solar panels it will work for boondocking for a time. Without these it still works for boondocking, but may have to start generator periodically to charge batteries. Frig does not pull much power, particularly if not too hot outside. I have the original inverter/charger. 

[Dragracer]

I have a Trace control panel but the Trace inverter was changed out for a converter/charger. 

[Tom Cherry]

12 minutes ago, bandmmorris said:

From the inverter.

Then, SOMEONE had modified or rewired your MH....it did NOT COME that way from the factory.  We have TWO "scans" for the Camelot/Scepter electrical prints.  One is a 2006 and the other is a 2007.  Unfortunately, either there was some "fold out" or larger prints not included or Monaco did a horrible job.  There is information on every conceivable "audio" system and such.  BUT, there is NOT one SIMPLE drawing for the Electrical Distribution from the main panel.  I KNOW...I have chased and scanned and scrolled through these file many times...and it AIN'T THERE

What someone did, I can only guess...but I can GUESS that with a high probability after working with folks for 14 years and also my own personal experiences helping folks "fix" the MY REFRIGERATOR ICEMAKER OUTLET DON'T WORK.

Now Jim J, a very knowledgeable member, has posted another theory.  Without pictures of you inverter (converter that Jim talks about) as well as pictures of the back side of your GFCI, I can't say.  BUT, 90 PLUS percent of the reasons that folks "Do things...sometimes with complete understanding or often....WELL...I FINALLY GOT IT TO WORK....Don't KNOW HOW...but ain't messin' with it again"....  They start running wires and changing.

IF they understood WHY the Icemaker Outlet in the rear of the refrigerator access panel was WIRED and where the power comes from and WHY it is "Nuance Tripping" and shutting down all internal power, then the fix is easy.  What PROBABLY happened....  ALL your INTERNAL (Outlets) are fed from ONE circuit of the ORIGINAL Magnum Inverter.  That went through the GFCI inside the MH.  The Microwave is also fed from the Magnum but it had a dedicated circuit or the SECOND circuit.

When the icemaker (which has a "Ice Mold" and it has a heating coil inside it to "unthaw", for a few seconds, so the ice can be ejected) gets older...or even BRAND new.  There can be a MINUTE "leakage" between the internal wire (toaster element) and the ceramic material and eventually a little leakage.  THIS IS NOT DEADLY or dangerous.  BUT, the GFCI was NEVER meant to be used on a Refrigerator or a Microwave.  Then, that trips the interior power since the Icemaker outlet and the interior outlet are BOTH on the LOAD or protected side of the GFCI.

OK....AGE COMES INTO PLAY. As a GFCI gets older, it gets...as many of us do...CROTCHETY.  It will then be MORE sensitive and start tripping.  NOW there is also ONE OTHER CONDITION.  If moisture gets inside the IceMaker receptacle box, it CAN then, really NEED to trip.  Mine did that.  We were in Sante Fe and the temps were cool at night....then in the morning, condensation would form.  The moisture, very MINUTE, would trip the GFCI.  That GFCI was only 4 years OLD.  I swapped it for a NEW Eaton Wiring devices.  WORKED FINE. 

THEN, I started troubleshooting and found the culprit.  Then I was able to remove the Icemaker romex (wire) from the LOAD side of the GFCI and move it to the TOP, LIKE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE, I had NO ISSUES and when I converted to a Res Refer...it works fine.  THAT is the issue.

Just now, bandmmorris said:

Since I have lithium batteries and solar panels it will work for boondocking for a time. Without these it still works for boondocking, but may have to start generator periodically to charge batteries. Frig does not pull much power, particularly if not too hot outside. I have the original inverter/charger. 

 OK...MORE info.  That NOT WITHSTANDING.  SOMEONE REWIRED THE CIRCUITS.  If you read the above...and have the OEM Magnum, then there was a problem.  They Previous Owner or a tech was not aware of the simple 10 minute "MOVE ONE PIECE OF ROMEX".  If it works NOW....then hope that nothing is wrong.  

I also HOPE the individuals did NOT remove the GFCI in the Vanity....SOME DID THAT....YES...that is dangerous.   If you have the GFCI, and you have never replaced it...then purchase one of the THREE approved ones and carry it as a spare.  Your outlets will eventually cause problems.  This is a know issue....they get old.

If you want more info, then call me...as I have gone down this route on the phone more than 20 times with members offline.

This is it...pure and simple

[Dr4Film]

2 hours ago, Dragracer said:

This is the only plug I can find. I removed the old norco fridge. It was hooked up to 12 volts, propane & this electrical plug. This plug is hot when the generator is running or when plugged into shore power. Evidently i dont have a 12v DC  to 110 v AC inverter. The only thing my inverter  does is charge the house batteries. Is this plug a GFCI?

It is NOT directly a GFCI duplex as there is no Test or Reset button located in the center between the two outlets. However, your coach may be wired such that there is a true GFCI Outlet that is wired in series with other NON-GFCI outlets so they are protected also. Or possibly your main circuit breaker panel has GFI Circuit Breakers to protect various vulnerable circuits.

Photo of GFI/GFCI outlet below.

If you have no Inverter than you will need to purchase and install one for the fridge. Then simply plug the fridge into the outlet on the Inverter. I sounds like your coach does not have an Inverter.

 

[cbr046]

2 hours ago, Dragracer said:

I have a Trace control panel but the Trace inverter was changed out for a converter/charger. 

I spotted some pure sine wave inverters on Amazon that didn't seem to hurt the racing budget too badly.  Here's one -

https://www.amazon.com/Ampeak-Pure-Sine-Wave-Inverter/dp/B09SZCWM8R/

Or get a bigger inverter and power the entire coach. 

- bob

[jacwjames]

To get the full functionality of the coach back I'd recommend installing a inverter similar to the one that was removed, which also charged the batteries when plugged into shore power.  Not sure what size he had, mine is a 2000W inverter, which works well for me. 

 

[Larry Laursen]

The WF-68100A SERIES - WFCO Electronics is a converter/charger not an inverter/charger.  Thus, the previous owner changed out the Trace inverter/charger and you no longer can power AC appliances from the batteries. 

[Dragracer]

18 minutes ago, Larry Laursen said:

The WF-68100A SERIES - WFCO Electronics is a converter/charger not an inverter/charger.  Thus, the previous owner changed out the Trace inverter/charger and you no longer can power AC appliances from the batteries. 

You are correct!