What year did Monaco start making semi monocoque chassis?

[purplephoenix77]

I’ve been researching different RVs for several months now and have concluded I want one on a semi monocoque chassis since it seems they drive better and have enhanced safety. I’m looking at older RVs.  What year did Monaco start building RVs on this semi chassis?

[waterskier_1]

I don't know what year they started, but I can tell you that my 1997 Dynasty had a Semi-monocoque chassis.  From then on, all Dynasty and above (Executives and Signatures) did, until they were redesigned by Navistar after the company was sold to them.  I'm not sure what year that was, I think around 2009, but I'm sure someone will chime in if I'm wrong.  Some Windsor (maybe all?) had the Semi-monocoque chassis. 

The Semi-monocoque chassis are often referred to as the "S-Series" chassis.  The lower level chassis are referred to as RR series which stands for Raised Rail chassis.  There are RR10R which are raised rail 10 airbag with Side radiator which the RR8R would be a raised rail 8 airbag, rear radiator.  They also made RR4R chassis (4 airbag, rear radiator) but not any RR4S.

Hope this might help.  I don't know for sure older then my 1997.

[Just Jim]

Some of the Windsor owners can chime in for confirmation, but I think Monaco changed the Windsor in 2003.  Before that they had a steel upper structure.  If you do a search for the brochures they pretty much all mention what kind of chassis each one had.  The Dynasty, Executive and Signature were the top of the line Monaco.  Holiday Rambler was a sister company with similar models.... you should check them out as well as the Beaver brand.  Those three brands were built very similarly.  Happy hunting.

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

I don't know what year they started, but I can tell you that my 1997 Dynasty had a Semi-monocoque chassis.  From then on, all Dynasty and above (Executives and Signatures) did, until they were redesigned by Navistar after the company was sold to them.  I'm not sure what year that was, I think around 2009, but I'm sure someone will chime in if I'm wrong.  Some Windsor (maybe all?) had the Semi-monocoque chassis. 

The Semi-monocoque chassis are often referred to as the "S-Series" chassis.  The lower level chassis are referred to as RR series which stands for Raised Rail chassis.  There are RR10R which are raised rail 10 airbag with Side radiator which the RR8R would be a raised rail 8 airbag, rear radiator.  They also made RR4R chassis (4 airbag, rear radiator) but not any RR4S.

Hope this might help.  I don't know for sure older then my 1997.

From my memory and a lot of discussion with ex Monaco folks and folks that watched what REV did.

Navistar, to the best of my knowledge, made no changes to the body & chassis.  They just kept building them.  They added in the illfated (full length slide sidewall…see the most recent posts).  Estimates go as high as $10,000 per ENGINE…as the bad news kept rolling in and it was not until a few years ago that they finally cleaned up all the EPA fines and class actions.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/navistar-will-destroy-old-engines-pay-52m-to-settle-federal-complaint

Specifically.  The 2015 Dynasty was the last “real Roadmaster or Monaco” model.  There were no 2016.  REV came out with a 2017 and called it the NEW Roadmaster Chassis.

FWIW. It gets sketchy as to how long REV operated Monaco like Navistar did.  They began a phase out.  The strategy was to take the “Brands & Models” and then use existing REV equivalents or even “lower ends” and tap into the quality and former price point and sell them.  I fully understand that as i helped purchase over 20 plants and brands and then we did the same thing.  Evaluate their manufacturing and decide whether to keep, upgrade or shut down.  I also closed 30+ sites during the same 20 odd years stint, (warehouses, offices & manufacturing).  REV isolated all the components, inventory, tooling, manufacturing equipment, any vendor’s tooling that they held title to…you name it.  Then they transported to a scrap yard(s) under tight control of their financial personnel and outside independent auditors.  They got a massive tax write off ….which is quite common.  REV owns the “intellectual property” rights to all former Monaco brands and names and whatever. But, probably will never fabricate another version of the Monaco Roadmaster chassis & monocoque body combination.

2 hours ago, Just Jim said:

Some of the Windsor owners can chime in for confirmation, but I think Monaco changed the Windsor in 2003.  Before that they had a steel upper structure.  If you do a search for the brochures they pretty much all mention what kind of chassis each one had.  The Dynasty, Executive and Signature were the top of the line Monaco.  Holiday Rambler was a sister company with similar models.... you should check them out as well as the Beaver brand.  Those three brands were built very similarly.  Happy hunting.

I don’t exactly know about the years….but I thought. From one of our founders that had a 2002 and then a 2004, that the 2004 was the last of the “original Windsor”.  The Camelot/Scepter was rebadged in 2005  and  dropped in 2006.  I could be off a year, but the 04 was supposedly the last of the “originals)…maybe someone can chime in.  If you p7ll the brochures from the Monaco site and carefully read the “body” and chassis and read the description of the roof and sidewall, you can pin that down…I didn’t go that far….

[Dr4Film]

I specifically purchased a 2002 Windsor in 2003 for many reasons but knowing that the 2002 had the semi-monocoque chassis was one major reason.

In 2003, the Windsor switched to a different chassis.

[waterskier_1]

4 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

From my memory and a lot of discussion with ex Monaco folks and folks that watched what REV did.

Navistar, to the best of my knowledge, made no changes to the body & chassis.  They just kept building them.  They added in the illfated (full length slide sidewall…see the most recent posts).  Estimates go as high as $10,000 per ENGINE…as the bad news kept rolling in and it was not until a few years ago that they finally cleaned up all the EPA fines and class actions.

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/navistar-will-destroy-old-engines-pay-52m-to-settle-federal-complaint

Specifically.  The 2015 Dynasty was the last “real Roadmaster or Monaco” model.  There were no 2016.  REV came out with a 2017 and called it the NEW Roadmaster Chassis.

FWIW. It gets sketchy as to how long REV operated Monaco like Navistar did.  They began a phase out.  The strategy was to take the “Brands & Models” and then use existing REV equivalents or even “lower ends” and tap into the quality and former price point and sell them.  I fully understand that as i helped purchase over 20 plants and brands and then we did the same thing.  Evaluate their manufacturing and decide whether to keep, upgrade or shut down.  I also closed 30+ sites during the same 20 odd years stint, (warehouses, offices & manufacturing).  REV isolated all the components, inventory, tooling, manufacturing equipment, any vendor’s tooling that they held title to…you name it.  Then they transported to a scrap yard(s) under tight control of their financial personnel and outside independent auditors.  They got a massive tax write off ….which is quite common.  REV owns the “intellectual property” rights to all former Monaco brands and names and whatever. But, probably will never fabricate another version of the Monaco Roadmaster chassis & monocoque body combination.

I don’t exactly know about the years….but I thought. From one of our founders that had a 2002 and then a 2004, that the 2004 was the last of the “original Windsor”.  The Camelot/Scepter was rebadged in 2005  and  dropped in 2006.  I could be off a year, but the 04 was supposedly the last of the “originals)…maybe someone can chime in.  If you p7ll the brochures from the Monaco site and carefully read the “body” and chassis and read the description of the roof and sidewall, you can pin that down…I didn’t go that far….

The 2002 Windsor was Semi-monocoque with Steel Superstructure.  The 2004 was Raised Rail Side Rad with Aluminum Superstructure.  I don't have info on the 2003 Windsor.

I have read, but not verified, that by 2013 all the molds and manufacturing equipment from MMC, purchased from Navistar and then AVS by what is now REV were destroyed and written off.  I'm pretty sure you won't see the original Monaco Roadmaster chassis after 2013.  But REV does call their Freightliner a Roadmaster Chassis, which might be confusing to many.

  -Rick N

[Ivylog]

A 2014-15 Dynasty is on a RR10S chassis and no mention of semi monocoque. May have an aluminum house structure. Last year if the all steel S-10 is 2009… maybe even 10.

19 hours ago, purplephoenix77 said:

semi monocoque

 

[dl_racing427]

My 1993 Dynasty is a steel semi-monococque with a side radiator on 8 airbags.
I don't recall the letter designation though.  Anyone know that?

[Tom Cherry]

4 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

The 2002 Windsor was Semi-monocoque with Steel Superstructure.  The 2004 was Raised Rail Side Rad with Aluminum Superstructure.  I don't have info on the 2003 Windsor.

I have read, but not verified, that by 2013 all the molds and manufacturing equipment from MMC, purchased from Navistar and then AVS by what is now REV were destroyed and written off.  I'm pretty sure you won't see the original Monaco Roadmaster chassis after 2013.  But REV does call their Freightliner a Roadmaster Chassis, which might be confusing to many.

  -Rick N

I was party to a lot of discussions, mainly on the Chassis.  It was, as I said, totally pulled, photo documentation, by outside auditors who checked every equipment or property tag and verified the machinery and tooling printouts.  Mega write-off and no one wanted an IRS audit or anything to go wrong.  That was the drill I had  to do a few times….

Probably same for FG molds….and the “copyrighted” Roadmaster Chassis will be milked to high heaven in the ads! But it ain’t the original and there will never be….unless REV decides to raise from the grave.  All drawing and manufacturing documentation was preserved and digitized.

[birdshill123]

Strange how Rev handled the whole purchase. When Rev took over Fleetwood they continued  stocking parts for legacy units. The same "good old boys" manned the tech support. They even honoured warrantees on vehicles that were sold by the old Fleetwood. But once they had Monaco everything changed. What an industry!

[timaz996]

On 8/18/2023 at 2:55 PM, dl_racing427 said:

My 1993 Dynasty is a steel semi-monococque with a side radiator on 8 airbags.
I don't recall the letter designation though.  Anyone know that?

I have a new post on irv2 asking about chassis. And it is answered there in a couple links. The second link will give you the breakdown of the Vin number which explains what chassis you have among other things.

[Tom Cherry]

7 hours ago, birdshill123 said:

Strange how Rev handled the whole purchase. When Rev took over Fleetwood they continued  stocking parts for legacy units. The same "good old boys" manned the tech support. They even honoured warrantees on vehicles that were sold by the old Fleetwood. But once they had Monaco everything changed. What an industry!

Not really.  REV only wanted the “name brand recognition”.  NOW if they did it logically, as most acquiring companies would do, they had a 6 or 9 month “evaluation” period where manufacturing and engineeing management would go in, with NO biases, and evaluate Monaco and compare to the existing REV operations and look for opportunities to consolidate or even move some REV models to Monaco in Oregon.  I THOUGHT that HR and the TT lines were still in Elkhart.  Then provide a “report and analysis” and let Senior management make the tough decisions.  BUT, if the intent was to NEVER use a Monaco plant, or perhaps already decided during the due dikigence and negotiations, that only one might survive and the rest (MH in Oregon) would be phases out….then that was superfluous….  My MIND is made up….don’t need facts to confuse me.  
 

And YES, after acquiring many other competitors as well as expanding our product line, we OFTEN had preconceived notions….and they were sort of “known”.  But we DID intend to keep a plant in an UNAMED State…. Was going to transfer products in….then the HR Guy fessed up.  The decision to acquire was based on the “working” payroll of 250 in the plant,  OPPS, 425 actually and 175 were on “permanent” workmans’ comp.  Our super HR sleuths had missed that. They dropped into a physician’s  practice that rubber stamped “can not return to work”.  These employees gave the Union, after we hired a PI, a kickback.  The State WC laws had no recourse for employers to “buck” the system.  Our only logical recourse was to shutdown and close, properly according to WARN.  Then, when we quit contributing to the WC pool as we ceased manufacturing.  A quirk  in the State WC regs then that gave you the opportunity for a third party physician to examine.  That cleared the books…and we paid for disabilities based on a REAL medical exam.

BTW…for the record, we had videos of workers water skiing and snowmobiling and getting their picture in the newspaper with their exploits of big game hunting for deer and such.  Same employees that were on a 10 pound weight restriction for work.

SAD BUT TRUE and we abided by all WC, OSHA and EPA regs.  I had Safety and Environmental, but outsourced our WC “interaction”.  I always was a stickler for employee safety and responsible environmental compliance.  Just a case of “milking a system” and it was statewide….and the state continues to lose a lot of manufacturing jobs.

Thats the drill.  I know WHAT REV did, eventually…. And the methodology was consistent with buy and close and write off and get the “good name” or good will, then bait and switch…. What the original intention of REV was…only a few know….

[Just Jim]

with a drag on the company like that, plus all the other economic issues of the time... no wonder they were in a downward spiral.

[Verde_Windsor]

On 8/17/2023 at 2:42 PM, purplephoenix77 said:

I’ve been researching different RVs for several months now and have concluded I want one on a semi monocoque chassis since it seems they drive better and have enhanced safety. I’m looking at older RVs.  What year did Monaco start building RVs on this semi chassis?

Yes you decide right. HOWEVER (very important) is maintenance records. It could be right coach, and then you would hear something like, and Im quoting: Motor under bed was changed... :-0 

Please study subject more, go check it yourself. Be prepared to get on your knees with flash light.  "Knowledge is power" not sure who said that... 

You don't want to be in situation, when honest sales person let you roam around someone else's MH and you find rats poop everywhere. In conversation later you mentioning that, he would say, again Im quoting: ITS OLD POOP... 

It take time, and effort to get right coach. I didn't said perfect one.  

Good luck!

Edited August 22, 2023 by Verde_Windsor

[purplephoenix77]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:49 PM, Verde_Windsor said:

 

Yes you decide right. HOWEVER (very important) is maintenance records. It could be right coach, and then you would hear something like, and Im quoting: Motor under bed was changed... :-0 

Please study subject more, go check it yourself. Be prepared to get on your knees with flash light.  "Knowledge is power" not sure who said that... 

You don't want to be in situation, when honest sales person let you roam around someone else's MH and you find rats poop everywhere. In conversation later you mentioning that, he would say, again Im quoting: ITS OLD POOP... 

It take time, and effort to get right coach. I didn't said perfect one.  

Good luck!

Thanks. I’m planning on getting a pre purchase inspection of anything I decide to buy. Im hoping that’ll take care of any other surprises and give me extra bargaining power. 

[Raymond]

Be certain you carefully vet the inspector you hire. I know of people that advertise that they do inspections, but have little knowledge about the technical, structural, mechanical, electrical, plumbing details of a motorcoach. The same issue is present with home inspections. I always seek the expertise of a technician that works full-time on motor-coaches; if they don’t actually do inspections they typically know of someone responsible who does. Jim at Source Engineering (Oregon) is an excellent resource to consider. 

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

Monaco made 2 different Windsor chassis in 2003.  The raised rail chassis was made in Elkhart and the semi monoque chassis was made in Oregon.  

Chuck B 2004 Windsor