Aquahot electric heat element replacement

[Jetjockey]

Aquahot has 1650 watt element on 120v. Curious if a residential water heater element of same size would work.

[10Boomer]

Short answer is, yes. But you have few things to consider and upgrade if going up in wattage also. Depends on model of Aqua Hot unit, element wiring, high temp cutout limit switch, 120v breaker for electrical element side, and finally connections repair or upgrade. 
I upgrade my 450DE with a 2000 watt replacement, with upgrades and new larger wiring and 20/30 amp breaker. Old breaker was a 20/20 breaker. 
works fine, helps with heating the coach better instead of using diesel all the time. Colder it gets less effective it will be. 
 

[Jetjockey]

What is a 20/30 amp breaker? 2000 watt will draw not quite 17 amps. For a thirty amp breaker one may need 10 guage conductor to  to element. I see my breaker to element is 20amp

Edited January 12 by Jetjockey

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, Jetjockey said:

What is a 20/30 amp breaker? 2000 watt will draw not quite 17 amps. For a thirty amp breaker one may need 10 guage conductor to  to element. I see my breaker to element is 20amp

Monaco used dual pole or 2 lines in one slot as they needed more breakers than the panel would allow.  I can’t speak to a 20/20 as most dual breakers that I am familiar with are the same current rating.

A 20 amp breaker will support 2,400 watts, so loaded at 80%, which is the recommended continuous max load, that is 1,920 watts is my mental math is correct.

As to a a “STANDARD” screw in water heater element, I have never read about anyone ordering an AMAZON part and it working.

GOOGLE AQUAHOT ELECTRIC HEATING ELEMENT and look at it or get the PN for your unit and google and compare.

[Jetjockey]

I would not order this type of thing on Amazon and I don’t think I indicated so.. although some items are identical to the local offering. One may need to measure actual voltage at breaker static and under load to determine what the voltage actually is. These campgrounds can vary a lot as we all know. Where I am at  is 124 to 125  on each leg which is unusually good.  I have seen 85v which causes my watchdog to take me offline.I am going to measure the actual current draw at the element for interest sake. Thank you all. Fwiw my element draws 13.2 amps at 122 volts or1610 watts for. 1650 w rated element . Test instrument inaccuracy .??? Physical size of the element may be an issue when fitting tank.

Edited January 12 by Jetjockey
Addition

[10Boomer]

Yes, would not order just an Amazon part with out all above advice in measuring the typicals. Size very important. DO NOT fudge in this area. I purchased mine at a professional heating/cooling supplier. 
the split breaker shares the the breakers legs with Central Vac and or Block Heaters installed on many models. So consider use. 
with this said I trace, checked load with everything operating in coach. My breaker is shared with central vac, and my two outlets installed in 3rd cargo bay and the rear engine compartment. With both used I determined 30 amp split keeps my away from the required percentage. 
 

Edited January 12 by 10Boomer
Finish

[96 EVO]

3 hours ago, 10Boomer said:

Short answer is, yes. But you have few things to consider and upgrade if going up in wattage also. Depends on model of Aqua Hot unit, element wiring, high temp cutout limit switch, 120v breaker for electrical element side, and finally connections repair or upgrade. 
I upgrade my 450DE with a 2000 watt replacement, with upgrades and new larger wiring and 20/30 amp breaker. Old breaker was a 20/20 breaker. 
works fine, helps with heating the coach better instead of using diesel all the time. Colder it gets less effective it will be. 
 

Why is it less effective in colder temperatures Perry?

[waterskier_1]

1 hour ago, 10Boomer said:

Yes, would not order just an Amazon part with out all above advice in measuring the typicals. Size very important. DO NOT fudge in this area. I purchased mine at a professional heating/cooling supplier. 
the split breaker shares the the breakers legs with Central Vac and or Block Heaters installed on many models. So consider use. 
with this said I trace, checked load with everything operating in coach. My breaker is shared with central vac, and my two outlets installed in 3rd cargo bay and the rear engine compartment. With both used I determined 30 amp split keeps my away from the required percentage. 
 

Increasing the breaker size from 20 to 30 amp will require increasing all the wires attached (downstream) to the breaker from AWG12 to AWG10.  Many don't realize that the job of the circuit breaker is not to protect the load, but the wires connected to the load.  Proper design starts with determining the size of the load.  After the load size is defined, then the wire size required to carry the load is determined.  Then the circuit breaker is sized to protect the wire.  

Now before Tom jumps in and states that there are no "design" requirements for 110 VAC wiring in RVs, I acknowledge that.  I am only describing proper electric circuit design in general.  If one chooses to make an informed decision to not follow accepted design principals, that is up to them.  I'm only attempting to help those who may not be aware of those accepted design principals.

  -Rick N

[Jetjockey]

Good points . Sometimes the type of load also has to be determined along with the  current draw of the load. And then determine circuit protection necessary. 

[Tom Cherry]

BTW....look at your prints.  We do NOT have prints for the Imperial...but your manual probably does. Find the SCHEMATIC - Aquahot print. There is a callout for a #12 Conductor (Romex) that comes from the main breaker. This is the Heating Element and it is connected to a 20 Amp breaker.

Therefore, the load should be around 2000 watts. You will have to check the Plate Data on the Aquahot panel or plate. It lists the wattage of the element in your Aquahot.

The above is from a Signature, but most of the Dynasty (Imperial) and above were the same base schematics as the upper ends. It was only when a component was upgraded....like a Dual Element Aquahot. So, if you have a single 20 Amp breaker...then that jibes with what the prints say.

[Jetjockey]

By”main breaker” I assume you refer to the  20 amp branch circuit breaker powering12 awg that  is  dedicated to the the aquahot electric element. The main breaker would likely be the one that protects the incoming power to all the branch circuits? Fortunately I do have the prints . There are a lot of them.  I think I will remove the cover of breaker box and see what size conductor is there. I think I did mention in earlier post a 1650 watt element is in my aquahot.Thankyou

Edited January 13 by Jetjockey
Spelling

[10Boomer]

We are over thinking the upgrade: so I’ve spoke with AQ hot designers and our AQHot service person who I consider the most experience guy I know. He’s been servicing and upgrading or diagnosing these bad boys since there inception of company and started installing them in RVs. The wire gauges installed for use in the 120v side will be 12 or 14 nothing different. If you have an “electrical Uglys” book you figure out everything you need to know; I.e. wire length vs load and amps. 
I know of at least a dozen units this mod has been done, it depends on the correct element replacement. The element wire are capstain treated wires on some units do replace like for like. My 450 had std 12 which I changed to shielded (heat resistant) although not a lot of heat external in the unit. 
replace with std 1650, 1800 or 2000 watt element. If you go above 1800 just swap split breaker to 30amp on element side. 

[Tom Cherry]

58 minutes ago, 10Boomer said:

We are over thinking the upgrade: so I’ve spoke with AQ hot designers and our AQHot service person who I consider the most experience guy I know. He’s been servicing and upgrading or diagnosing these bad boys since there inception of company and started installing them in RVs. The wire gauges installed for use in the 120v side will be 12 or 14 nothing different. If you have an “electrical Uglys” book you figure out everything you need to know; I.e. wire length vs load and amps. 
I know of at least a dozen units this mod has been done, it depends on the correct element replacement. The element wire are capstain treated wires on some units do replace like for like. My 450 had std 12 which I changed to shielded (heat resistant) although not a lot of heat external in the unit. 
replace with std 1650, 1800 or 2000 watt element. If you go above 1800 just swap split breaker to 30amp on element side. 

YES....time to quite speculating and do some research and be practical. The PRINTS for the Imperial call for #12 wire from the 20 amp breaker. Now IF Monaco ran number #14, then the breaker should have been downsized to a 15.

SO, if there is a 20 Amp Breaker, I'll put a little pint of CR Black and give odds on #12.

Now as to the heater, JJ says 1650. OK...that is fine.  BUT, if there is a 1800 Watt heater that will interchange, then that will be OK also. Wiring (#12) and Breaker (20A) will work fine. As to "IF there is a 1,800 Watt heater and it will fit?", then technically a #12 would work....the 40 odd feet run is not anything major when you consider how long the runs are in a stick built house. 

Look at the PDF. the "upgraded" 1800 Watt (15 amp draw) will work fine with the existing wiring....

Past that....run a new feed (DOUBLE PITA) of #10... I HATE PULLING #10 Romex....  

Now, back down on earth.  Adding 10% electrical capacity for domestic use is fine. I checked my owner's manual. YES, I have the 1650 Watt. I have had 5 folks taking showers and maybe once have had to "TURN ON THE DIESEL" as my GD screamed....because DW (Nana) decided to WASH DISHES...  NO NO NO.

But for 3 or 4 people and a "thinking" DW, 1650 works well.

The additional capacity of of 10% electric is a mere drop in the ocean as the Diesel is 10 TIMES the BTU Capacity.  SO, OK, maybe you will get 10% more minutes from the AH if you choose furnace and don't use the Diesel...but if the HP's aren't enough, then you are gonna need the Diesel...  I chuckled and thought of Bob Seger's
"We've Got Tonight" song (written for the Robert Redford and the Waitress scene in "The Sting".  Having a mere 10% MORE ain't gonna work and she, the waitreess, Dimitra Arliss, WOULD DEFINITELY have left early....

SO, You are RIGHT.  This has been overthought....

Time to move on....

2005 HR Imperial Aquahot Voltage Drop Calculator _ Southwire.pdf

[96 EVO]

I'll dig a little deeper into it 'IF' my element ever dies, but they rarely do.

[Jetjockey]

Agreed .seems like most responses are quite lengthy. But I for one still appreciate the answersQuestion started out short and simple. The end.

Edited January 13 by Jetjockey

[waterskier_1]

To bring this full circle, since I was the one who likely started the confusion and resulting discussion, I checked my Aquahot Installation Manual.  I have an upgraded Aquahot 600D.  This unit has two 2000 Watt Electric Elements.  This is what the Aquahot manual states

"Connecting the 120 Volt-AC Power:
1. Run two 12-2 ROMEX wires, with grounds, from two over
-current protected (20Amp circuit breaker required) 120
Volt-AC power supplies, through the Aqua-Hot’s cable
clamp fitting and to the appropriate terminal block"

This is also what I have.  So, Aquahot is okay with running their Part Number ELX-G12-07L 120 VAC/2000 Watt electric element on 12-2 Romex.  Note that this is the only 120 VAC item in the Aquahot, the rest of the Aquahot runs on 12 VDC.  FIY, this element from Aquahot sells for $43.20 (https://secure.aquahot.com/ProductInfo/ELX-G12-07L.aspx).

Sorry for the confusion.

  -Rick N. 

[Dr4Film]

When discussing any Aqua-Hot issues it is mandatory to post what model we are working with as there are major differences between the models.

[Dean Bennett]

I have a 2001 Windsor with a Hydro-Hot (HH). Not quite an AH but, the same idea/company. We full-timed in the MH from 2005 until 2013. The HH only has 2 gallons of Glycol to store heat unlike the 8ish gallons in the AH so, showers (on electric) were very short until the water turned unbearably cold (depending on the incoming water temperature). So, my first upgrade was to install a 240V element. I can’t remember the wattage. Probably 3.5-4.5kw. I was careful to get one that was not too long. I’m not sure how the AH is wired but, the HH has a ‘stir’ pump that comes on when the Wabasto is fired up. I assume it is required to allow the 50K BTUs of heat from the Wabasto to effectively enter the fluid without any surface boiling. I was afraid that might be the case with the larger element. So, I wired a relay that would activate the stir pump whenever the unit called for electric heating (or diesel) to minimize any heat buildup around the higher output element. Notably I also did something in the relay circuit to break both poles of the electric feed to the element. And, of course, had to run a 3-conductor power feed and install a 2-pole breaker.

After a few weeks of using and testing the setup, it was much better but, you could still run cold (it was winter). So, I constructed a copper vessel to hold another heating element, connected it into the relays and plumbed it into the stir loop. Of course, a 2^nd power run and 2-pole breaker were also installed. Now you can take endless showers as hot as you want. You can also heat the coach in extreme weather from only electric. We spent 2-weeks in Colorado about 8 years ago when the outside temperature never got above 20 below and did just fine.

Another notability, you can’t run the electric elements unless you have a 240v/50A (2-phase/pole) service connection. You can’t run the stock element (practically) on a 15a service anyway and, I have never been where they had a 30A (single pole) and not a 50A connection. So, not a show stopper for me. I also installed a switch on the HH unit that lets me turn off the second element which is not needed in the non-winter months. The challenge is balancing all of the coach loads. With both elements running you can/should only run two air conditioners on a 50A service. Ergo the 2nd-element switch. It works out as you don’t need two electric heating elements if you also need air conditioning. The picture was before I appropriately encapsulated the 2^nd element connections and insulated the vessel.

 

[Jim Pratten]

2 hours ago, Dean Bennett said:

So, my first upgrade was to install a 240V element.

Impressive Dean.  There’s some engineering and safety related analysis I’d want to undertake before heading in that direction, but truly love the ingenuity to solve your hot water demand. 

[10Boomer]

HH hss as d more flexibility and less complexity than new AQ units. Think they learn a ton from HH days. Some of the AQ systems in upper end coach’s like ours carry about 12-13 gallons of fluid, when initially install book calls for 17 gal. 
im happy that I can run my furnace side of AQ with newer 2000w element. Previously the 1650 didn’t heat fast or long enough to keep furnace running before low temp cutout came on. 

[96 EVO]

That's interesting Dean!

I often thought about installing a second 5gal tank, plumbed into the main boiler tank, to reduce the frequency of the burner cycles, (wakes me up at night).

Last year I solved my problem by installing a cheap diesel air heater, which I run at night.

[Dean Bennett]

3 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I often thought about installing a second 5gal tank, plumbed into the main boiler tank, to reduce the frequency of the burner cycles.

That is a cool idea I had not thought about. We boondock a lot and with only 2-gallons of glycol, the Wabasto cycles every 15-20 minutes when it is in the 30-40's outside and it drives me crazy (short trip). 

[96 EVO]

1 minute ago, Dean Bennett said:

That is a cool idea I had not thought about. We boondock a lot and with only 2-gallons of glycol, the Wabasto cycles every 15-20 minutes when it is in the 30-40's outside and it drives me crazy (short trip). 

15-20 min between cycles is about all I get with my 5gal 450-D model, at those temperatures.

[Benjamin]

Water heater elements are interchangeable between 120v and 240V.  Typical household electric water heater elements are made to run on a 30A circuit, so will be 3,800-5,500W, most commonly 4,500W.  If you hook that element to 120V it will draw under 15A.  As long as the old element is threaded to fit 1"NPT, then a standard water heater element will work if it's not too much longer.