Going HIGH TECH….2007 Dynasty. New Inverter Charger and Lithiums and such. Questions??” and Help Needed.

[John C]

1 hour ago, Frank McElroy said:

I doubt you'll find a reasonably priced 24 to 12 volt converter will have enough amps to run the slide hydraulic pump.  But, I'm surprised that the generator start and slide hydraulic pump are not operated from the chassis batteries.  If, not, reconfigure the RRB like an 08 Dynasty.  Also, on your coach, the slides can be closed with the ignition ON and the engine running.  When opening the slides the engine ignition must be OFF.

No sure if my slideout is operating on chassis battery or not.

For whatever reason my 2007 is counter intuitive,maybe something is screwed up on this coach, right now I have to start the engine in order to extend the slideout.

I can retract the slideout when the engine is off.

I would love to wire the slideout on house batteries,do you have any instructions or steps on this procedure?

Thx

[Frank McElroy]

6 hours ago, John C said:

No sure if my slideout is operating on chassis battery or not.

For whatever reason my 2007 is counter intuitive,maybe something is screwed up on this coach, right now I have to start the engine in order to extend the slideout.

I can retract the slideout when the engine is off.

I would love to wire the slideout on house batteries,do you have any instructions or steps on this procedure?

Thx

See page 92 for the low voltage high current wiring diagram.

 

 

If you need to have the engine running to extend the slide outs that's NOT how the coach was wired when it left the factory.  Someone has modified the low voltage high current circuit.  Please post a picture of the interior of your RRB (Rear Run Bay) electrical box.

[Tom Cherry]

9 hours ago, John C said:

The only problem with DC to DC is is it is one directional, you won't be able to charge the chassis batteries from house batteries

@Tom Cherry My understanding is the Big Boy is a middleman between the chassis batteries and house batteries.

If I just disconnect the wire go in and out of the big boy and leave everything the way it is,  should that be enough to disable the whole bird system ? Why would I need to worry about the small wire in the disconnect switches (I don't even know where they are)

As i said….you COULD disconnect the wires or a wire and then the BIRD board would STILL be operating.  These boards are scarce.  If I owned your MH, I would not continue to power the board. I’d let it be IDLE.  This is just as simple as pulling the wires…as the control board is still trying to put out the pulsed signal.

All you do…. Look on the back side of each disconnect switch….there are 4 terminals.  Two “studs” and two small control (power) wires.  Basically, the switch has two switches.  One for low current and the other for high. The low voltage switch is what supplies power to the board. The board gets power from BOTH Batteries, via the Disconnect Switches.  Remove ONE of the small wires…matters NOT.

The upside, of doing it propelry, is that you can also o the needed PM to tighten the high current studs. They sometimes loosen. Many if us, to avoid future issues, do a PM of major connections, AC & DC, every few years.

That’s my take and logic.  Do it either way, just understand the downside, to me of “tinkering” with circuits, to disable, without fuly understanding the issues.  

Based on what you have posted and needing Frank’s assistsnce as yiur slide control functions have been “aborted” or improperly modified..our advice to members is to ONLY do things that they are sure of and also meet the original deaign.

Having to run the engine just to operate the slides is the reverse of what Monaco recommended and also designed the slide control circuits to work….. Sort of like saying that in order to drive your car, you have to unbuckle the seatbelts….

If you ever have issues or need repairs, the cost of “reconstructing” the original or the decreased value of a “gee….what did they do and what were they thinking?” Is not good practice.

As I indicated, many posts ago. One should NEVER randomly, even with advice from seemingly knowledgeable members, modify wiring…. You document….have a copy and update or have an “AS MODIFIED” drawings for each print impacted. You need to FULLY understand why you need to “modify” and then, from, a wiring diagram standpoint, be able to understand the whys and why nots.  Techs who foster the “cut this and try that” often do more harm than good andnit costs twice or many times what they charged you to rectify…

That’s the way that our more knowledgeable members approach this.

Hope, this helps….

[Grey Goose]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:00 PM, MJ.STIGER said:

Never thought about 24V. but for my simple upgrade 12v it is. 

I will be completing the swap tomorrow on my 05.  Installing a DC/DC converter and a Charger for the Coach Batteries from the Engine heater plug. And will be removing the Trigger Wire on my Big Boy Relay. 

I will think it though if i change out my Inverter Maybe do another upgrade to 24v. But i dont boon dock much and the wiring is in place. 

Good luck! I found out yesterday it was good to have a DC to DC charger on board. I was just ready to pull out of a campground and my low battery light went on. A quick check with my voltmeter verified that my alternator was not charging. I flipped the 30 amp DC to DC charger wiring to charge my chassis batteries from the house and in parallel with a 110/20 amp charger running off my block heater switch I was able to generate enough charging to complete my 400 mile trip home.

Is it a coincidence that my alternator went out about 1000 miles after adding a DC to DC charger?

 

Edited February 19 by Grey Goose

[Frank McElroy]

Don't know if this was your situation but one thing to keep in mind is that the engine alternator system was basically designed to maintain house and chassis battery power.  If you used the alternator to in effect bulk charge house batteries you will significantly shorten the life of the engine alternator.  Bulk charging house batteries is to be done with the generator and the inverter/charger.

[Grey Goose]

28 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Don't know if this was your situation but pne thing to keep in mind is that the engine alternator system was basically designed to maintain house and chassis battery power.  If you used the alternator to in effect bulk charge house batteries you will significantly shorten the life of the engine alternator.  Bulk charging house batteries is to be done with the generator and the inverter/charger.

It is a 30 amp dc to dc charger so I assume it should not have been over loaded regardless.

I also just noticed today that there was a small coolant hose located right above the thermostat housing that had a very small leak that was dripping right into the alternator. I tightened the clamp today but I will find out more when I remove the alternator.

Edited February 19 by Grey Goose

[Frank McElroy]

37 minutes ago, Grey Goose said:

It is a 30 amp dc to dc charger so I assume it should not have been over loaded regardless.

Good - a 30 amp DC to DC should have been just fine - no alternate abuse there.

[Tom Cherry]

39 minutes ago, Grey Goose said:

It is a 30 amp dc to dc charger so I assume it should not have been over loaded regardless.

@Frank McElroymight chime in.  The USUAL bulk charging rate on most inverters or at least on the Magnum is up to 100 Amps.  So a totally dead house bank, with the Inverter set to 100%, then you will pump out the 100 Amps max.  Your alternator is, probably, 200 A.  

Now, pardon me for NOT understanding..….You appear to have a Lithium battery house bank.  Then, I don’t know, but assume that there is NO BIRD charging system….so your Chassis Bank is charged by the Alternator and the House by the 30 A DC/DC charger???

As long as you haven’t been charging a conventional House bank, like a Magnum would, then the Alternator would not have been abused. BUT, if you lost the conventional inverter and was using only the Alternator to charge a dead set or bank of FLA batteries, that 50% draw, plus the Chassis and the engine might have shortened the Alternator’s life…

Hope that makes sense….and folks need to fully understand the current draws for their battery banks and such…

 

[MJ.STIGER]

Well in light of this topic that has grown. I did complete my swap to Lithiums for my house batteries. 

- Installed 2 x 12 230ah lithiums 

- Removed 1 wire from Big Boy Relay to disable old school bird from charging. 

- Installed DC-DC Isolated Charger with 2x60amp resettable fuses 1 for incoming other for outgoing. 

- Unplugged Block Heater. Plugged in Victron Blue Smart Charger. Since this is controlled by switch on dash. I will use it when plugged in to shore power or Genny Running to keep chassis batteries topped off. 

( i did find out both engine and generator use chassis battery to start. Worst case if coach will not start. I should have enough poop to start generator and flip my switch to start charging the chassis batteries.) 

I will see how things go with new batteries. Dont expect any changes. But now i think i know why someone mentioned moving one of the output lines on the Inverter to power the AC units. Those dont seem to run when on Battery. Something to dive into and tackle down the road if needed. 

[Tom Cherry]

11 hours ago, MJ.STIGER said:

Well in light of this topic that has grown. I did complete my swap to Lithiums for my house batteries. 

- Installed 2 x 12 230ah lithiums 

- Removed 1 wire from Big Boy Relay to disable old school bird from charging. 

- Installed DC-DC Isolated Charger with 2x60amp resettable fuses 1 for incoming other for outgoing. 

- Unplugged Block Heater. Plugged in Victron Blue Smart Charger. Since this is controlled by switch on dash. I will use it when plugged in to shore power or Genny Running to keep chassis batteries topped off. 

( i did find out both engine and generator use chassis battery to start. Worst case if coach will not start. I should have enough poop to start generator and flip my switch to start charging the chassis batteries.) 

I will see how things go with new batteries. Dont expect any changes. But now i think i know why someone mentioned moving one of the output lines on the Inverter to power the AC units. Those dont seem to run when on Battery. Something to dive into and tackle down the road if needed. 

Thanks.  This actually hasn’t “morphed”….it started out and is a discussion as the topic title states.

First, as to the poor man’s disabling the BIRD system.  I would not as I don’t know, maybe others do, the consequences of the proprietary Intellitec board that sends out the pulsed (the Big Boy is not s full 12 VDC continuous rated solenoid)…  As stated just removing one wire from each of the Main disconnect switches powers down or takes that board out of the circuit and disables the BiDirectional charging.  The earlier models did NOT have that board, just the simple Intellitec module.  The Camelots and probably some of the lower food chain rigs are wired that way.  This is a $150 standard unit…  But, if one ever reverted back or needed to revert back…, keeping the #6 board OFFLINE snd not powered is my choice.

Second…  the comment about “someone said” is a major concern of the moderating staff.  It is bland recommendations without some documentation that members read her and then make modifications and end up with issues and it is impossible for knowledgeable members or the moderating staff to offer intelligent answers.

EDIT....this is based on Grey Goose's next post....which he clarified a few things....so the following is based on his Magnum MS2812 and having a Dual In/Dual Out system with a Sub Panel. Prints of his system are attached for clarity....

For those that do NOT have the Dual In/Dual Out system, the Magnum inverter probably has pin style circuit breakers on the Magnum case or cabinet.  These Pin Style pin style “push to reset” circuit breakers on the output lines or circuits of the Magnum are like a “resettable fuse” with a limited number or resets.

They were never designed to be a “turn on/turnoff” circuit breaker like the ones on our main panels….  just making that point so misinformation is not passed on….

As far as the charger on the block heater….as you may know….others not that familiar….

The OEM Monaco 2000 or 2800 Watt Inverter Charger was actually rated for the “inverting” capacity.  However, the “pass through” capability, while on shore or genny is was based on the incoming watts....typically 3,900 There were various configurations of the main panel Inverter feeds….yours is Dual In / Dual Out.  

Thus, one CAN have MORE current OUT from the Inverter when on AC, but that is the limitation for the Inverter.  If one “disconnected” or swapped one of the output circuits….then that would disable or “kill” either the Microwave or the Internal Receptacles including the Res Refer.

Just wanted to do a little Monaco AC Power 101 educatin’….as many don’t understand this…

BTW...if you look at the 38051357 print....notice that there are TWO circuits... A and B or 1 & 2. Thus the circuits on the 1, 3, 5, 7 side are backfed or coming IN from the Inverter the number 3 inverter feeds the panel and the 1, 5 & 7 breakers are the outputs.  Similar for the other side. Breaker 4 feed the 2, 6 & 8 breakers.

NOW...as to the ability to RUN an HVAC unit.  YES... in THEORY.  The starting Current for a SINGLE HVAC, assuming the unit is not worn will work for a 20 amp breaker.  BUT, as the units age...the 20 amps will not work.

But HERE is the issue...in order to run an HVAC, assuming you have SUFFICIENT battery power, is that you would have to PROBABLY dedicate ONE unit...and rewire it through the SUB PANEL.  Then the other functions would have to be moved to the other side...so if you chose either #3 or #4 for an HVAC...then logically, MOVE the rest.  The exception would be to choose the ODD or #3 breaker.  That is the MICROWAVE. You could NOT, even with Pass THROUGH power run BOTH from that point on.  The load would be too much.  BUT, you could run either one....

You would move 5 & 7 to one of the even breakers OR install DUAL breakers....which is done.

HOPE THIS CLEARS IT UP...

END OF EDIT... 

Good Luck with your MH and keep up posted on the Alternator.

NOW…IF you find NO other issues and the Alternator just “DIED”….then please do a search for that before posting a new topic.

This topic, unless the failure WAS related to your modifications, is not the place for “ordinary” Alternator Failure comments…..

Thanks,

 

38051357 REV A (Detail, Panel, Label, 110 Volt, 2 AC).pdf 38011031 (Schematic, Panel, 110 Volt, Sine Wave Inverter).pdf MS-series_datasheet_64-0200-RevP_web_4.pdf

[Grey Goose]

12 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

@Frank McElroymight chime in.  The USUAL bulk charging rate on most inverters or at least on the Magnum is up to 100 Amps.  So a totally dead house bank, with the Inverter set to 100%, then you will pump out the 100 Amps max.  Your alternator is, probably, 200 A.  

Now, pardon me for NOT understanding..….You appear to have a Lithium battery house bank.  Then, I don’t know, but assume that there is NO BIRD charging system….so your Chassis Bank is charged by the Alternator and the House by the 30 A DC/DC charger???

As long as you haven’t been charging a conventional House bank, like a Magnum would, then the Alternator would not have been abused. BUT, if you lost the conventional inverter and was using only the Alternator to charge a dead set or bank of FLA batteries, that 50% draw, plus the Chassis and the engine might have shortened the Alternator’s life…

Hope that makes sense….and folks need to fully understand the current draws for their battery banks and such…

 

Let me clarify a few things.

Inverter - Magnum MS2812 - 2800W 12/125A max charge rate

House Batteries - 230AH Lithium x 2

Chassis batteries  - 3 month old - SLA

Big boy selenoid disconnected 

Chassis batteries charge by the alternator and 1 rooftop solar panel. I have never had an issue with the chassis batteries being undercharged/dead.

House batteries charged by Magnum MS2812 - when on shore or generator power - 

I installed the lithium house batteries in early November and only charged the batteries via the Magnum inverter/charger. This worked okay but when traveling and spending a night here and there without shore power I needed to run the generator periodically to maintain the charge. Obviously when I was in a site with FHU it was never an issue. I spent the entire months of December and January with FHU.

In late January of this year I installed a Victron DC/DC 30A charger to allow me to keep the house batteries charged or at least maintained without needing to run the Onan 10K generator.

In my mind I would think the most current the Lithiums could have pulled from the alternator was 30 amps via the DC to DC charger. Based on the recent issue of the alternator not working I could tell the chassis/engine with headlights on was pulling about 50 Amps based on the charger and alladin readouts. I would think 50 amps to the chassis plus 30 amps to the DC to DC charger should not have abused a 200 amp alteranator. Keeping in mind before the lithium changeover the Big Boy was providing charging to the 800AH lead acid battery bank.

I do think the alternator is the original. It has a little over 50K, which is not a lot but I did notice the small coolant hose that is right above the alternator was dripping right into the alternator. This just started recently as I inspect my engine bay often when traveling. I will be curious to see what it looks like when I remove it and crack it open. I know alternators can take a lot of water but I am not sure what coolant could do in the wrong place. I did notice the voltage was a little off on my last leg from Mississippi to Missouri.

Anyway it all reminds of saying we used to use when we rode and modified snowmobiles. "Once the hood goes up it never stops going up". Basically saying that once you start modifying it never ends, either because we wanted more or we impacted reliability in some way.

I will go on to say, I think lithium has its place in a coach but dont do it to save money. The price of the batteries is just the start. Chargers, heaters, inverters, controls and monitoring etc. It could go on an on and for what gain? My alladin system is aging but it gives me a lot of pertinent information for monitoring the electrical systems. I can tell if the ac compressor units kick in, if the dryer is cycling properly, if the aquahot primary and secondary heating elements are working etc etc. It really depends on how you use your coach and IF you have other systems such as the inverter that is compatible and or needs replaced anyway. Dont get me wrong, I love new technology and I have worked with DC power systems for years but if I could go back in time I think I would have just replaced my 800ah lead acids with about 400ah lead acid and saved a whole lot of hassle because I really dont "need" a lot of house battery capacity based on how I currently use my coach. If you are boondocking a lot and NEED as much capacity as you can get then of course it makes more sense...then you are likely adding solar panels as well. At that point you would likely scrap the alladin and go with some other way to monitor tanks plus the electrical. 

Sorry for rambling on. I dont mean to come off as negative on lithium either. I just think people tend to overbuy capacity on a lot of things that really dont matter. But it gives them some kind of gratifcation to "have it". 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, MJ.STIGER said:

Well in light of this topic that has grown. I did complete my swap to Lithiums for my house batteries. 

- Installed 2 x 12 230ah lithiums 

- Removed 1 wire from Big Boy Relay to disable old school bird from charging. 

- Installed DC-DC Isolated Charger with 2x60amp resettable fuses 1 for incoming other for outgoing. 

- Unplugged Block Heater. Plugged in Victron Blue Smart Charger. Since this is controlled by switch on dash. I will use it when plugged in to shore power or Genny Running to keep chassis batteries topped off. 

( i did find out both engine and generator use chassis battery to start. Worst case if coach will not start. I should have enough poop to start generator and flip my switch to start charging the chassis batteries.) 

I will see how things go with new batteries. Dont expect any changes. But now i think i know why someone mentioned moving one of the output lines on the Inverter to power the AC units. Those dont seem to run when on Battery. Something to dive into and tackle down the road if needed. 

What is the plan for charging the lithium house batteries? Does your current inverter/charger have a CC/CV or custom profile to adequately charge lithium?

Will you be traveling and or operating in colder climates? The reason I ask is lithium batteries need heat/warmed when it gets below 35 degrees.

Also if you have a solar panel that may be enought to keep your chassis batteries topped off. It certainly has for me at least.

 

Edited February 19 by Grey Goose

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Grey Goose said:

Let me clarify a few things.

Inverter - Magnum MS2812 - 2800W 12/125A max charge rate

House Batteries - 230AH Lithium x 2

Chassis batteries  - 3 month old - SLA

Big boy selenoid disconnected 

Chassis batteries charge by the alternator and 1 rooftop solar panel. I have never had an issue with the chassis batteries being undercharged/dead.

House batteries charged by Magnum MS2812 - when on shore or generator power - 

I installed the lithium house batteries in early November and only charged the batteries via the Magnum inverter/charger. This worked okay but when traveling and spending a night here and there without shore power I needed to run the generator periodically to maintain the charge. Obviously when I was in a site with FHU it was never an issue. I spent the entire months of December and January with FHU.

In late January of this year I installed a Victron DC/DC 30A charger to allow me to keep the house batteries charged or at least maintained without needing to run the Onan 10K generator.

In my mind I would think the most current the Lithiums could have pulled from the alternator was 30 amps via the DC to DC charger. Based on the recent issue of the alternator not working I could tell the chassis/engine with headlights on was pulling about 50 Amps based on the charger and alladin readouts. I would think 50 amps to the chassis plus 30 amps to the DC to DC charger should not have abused a 200 amp alteranator. Keeping in mind before the lithium changeover the Big Boy was providing charging to the 800AH lead acid battery bank.

I do think the alternator is the original. It has a little over 50K, which is not a lot but I did notice the small coolant hose that is right above the alternator was dripping right into the alternator. This just started recently as I inspect my engine bay often when traveling. I will be curious to see what it looks like when I remove it and crack it open. I know alternators can take a lot of water but I am not sure what coolant could do in the wrong place. I did notice the voltage was a little off on my last leg from Mississippi to Missouri.

Anyway it all reminds of saying we used to use when we rode and modified snowmobiles. "Once the hood goes up it never stops going up". Basically saying that once you start modifying it never ends, either because we wanted more or we impacted reliability in some way.

I will go on to say, I think lithium has its place in a coach but dont do it to save money. The price of the batteries is just the start. Chargers, heaters, inverters, controls and monitoring etc. It could go on an on and for what gain? My alladin system is aging but it gives me a lot of pertinent information for monitoring the electrical systems. I can tell if the ac compressor units kick in, if the dryer is cycling properly, if the aquahot primary and secondary heating elements are working etc etc. It really depends on how you use your coach and IF you have other systems such as the inverter that is compatible and or needs replaced anyway. Dont get me wrong, I love new technology and I have worked with DC power systems for years but if I could go back in time I think I would have just replaced my 800ah lead acids with about 400ah lead acid and saved a whole lot of hassle because I really dont "need" a lot of house battery capacity based on how I currently use my coach. If you are boondocking a lot and NEED as much capacity as you can get then of course it makes more sense...then you are likely adding solar panels as well. At that point you would likely scrap the alladin and go with some other way to monitor tanks plus the electrical. 

Sorry for rambling on. I dont mean to come off as negative on lithium either. I just think people tend to overbuy capacity on a lot of things that really dont matter. But it gives them some kind of gratifcation to "have it". 

 

 

 

What is the plan for charging the lithium house batteries? Does your current inverter/charger have a CC/CV or custom profile to adequately charge lithium?

Will you be traveling and or operating in colder climates? The reason I ask is lithium batteries need heat/warmed when it gets below 35 degrees.

Also if you have a solar panel that may be enought to keep your chassis batteries topped off. It certainly has for me at least.

 

THANKS A BUNCH for clearing that up. I did EDIT my post to make it specific to your MH.  I talked to Frank McElroy off line to verify my logic and we went over the prints.  The edit is in italics....

I think that you and are on the same page....my comments are fundamental about how the system works.  The Lithium upgrade and additional equipment is a discussion point and I don't intend to go there.  BUT, it is important for folks to know how everything works and then draw up a circuit and fully understand....then make the mods and then redline or update their prints.  I often fail to do that and then say "NOW how or WHY did I do that..."  LOL

 

[Grey Goose]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

THANKS A BUNCH for clearing that up. I did EDIT my post to make it specific to your MH.  I talked to Frank McElroy off line to verify my logic and we went over the prints.  The edit is in italics....

I think that you and are on the same page....my comments are fundamental about how the system works.  The Lithium upgrade and additional equipment is a discussion point and I don't intend to go there.  BUT, it is important for folks to know how everything works and then draw up a circuit and fully understand....then make the mods and then redline or update their prints.  I often fail to do that and then say "NOW how or WHY did I do that..."  LOL

 

One additional qustion. I know that the Alladin on my coach picks up the dc voltage level from the solar panel and the house batteries at the solar controller. I verified this physically and with the wiring diagram for my coach.

Where does the Alladin pick up the DC current charge and discharge amp reading for the house batteries? 

Edited February 19 by Grey Goose

[Paul J A]

Tom Cherry; What does/is ; MFSTS a acronym for; Chocked full of custom boards and MFSTS and other proprietary boards that are no longer available.

[Grey Goose]

1 hour ago, Paul J A said:

Tom Cherry; What does/is ; MFSTS a acronym for; Chocked full of custom boards and MFSTS and other proprietary boards that are no longer available.

MOSFET...I assumed. 

MOSFET is the most common type of transistor today. Their primary use is to control conductivity, or how much electricity can flow, between its source and drain terminals based on the amount of voltage applied to its gate terminal.

 

[Grey Goose]

Good news! It appears the small coolant leak was the issue. The alternator started working normally again today after about 10 minutes. I am cautiously optimistic at this point that it is fixed.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Grey Goose said:

MOSFET...I assumed. 

MOSFET is the most common type of transistor today. Their primary use is to control conductivity, or how much electricity can flow, between its source and drain terminals based on the amount of voltage applied to its gate terminal.

 

Thanks for picking up the typo. Yes, I meant MOSFET.  The point of my comment is that there were, I believe several PCB (printed circuit boards) in use on the older 2005 Dynasty and up…However, the “Digital Technology Level” increased by an order of magnitude in the 2006 MY with the 20 or so Intellitec boards with MOSFET’s and their LED’s and diagnostic switches and as well as the switch over to the Intellitec CPU internal house switching system powered by a CPU was to me…mind blowing.

Therefore, the guidance or recommendations for these systems is to LEARN how they work.  Make sure that the average or perhaps “old school” RV techs do not just “cut and splice” rather than troubleshoot.  I have a RV Tech friend that is an electrical genius. BUT he balks at working on the Monaco’s as all he can do, is try to isolate the  malfunction and if it is not a simple fuse, he has to pull the board and ship to a proprietary shop and the cost to repair are excessive…and price increases every few months are the norm…

Fortunately, as stated, we have two experts here that understand the chassis and domestic systems and can also, more reasonably, usually repair and reprogram them.

That was my point….and many others feel the same way….so do NOT blindly cut or rewire or modify the boards without fully understanding their original purpose…..which is on the prints….and then work with some members here who will assist in troubleshooting….

Hope this is a little clearer…..

29 minutes ago, Grey Goose said:

Good news! It appears the small coolant leak was the issue. The alternator started working normally again today after about 10 minutes. I am cautiously optimistic at this point that it is fixed.

At the risk of infuriating many….I HOPE it dried out.  NASA used a special technology. They developed a Water Displacement compound delivered via an aerosol type propellant.  Later, a company started selling that under the WD-40 brand….  LOL. If you have intermittent issues, maybe a little and then followed up by flushing with “Canned Air”. I often would recommend “electronic cleaner”….but that was flamed….and last week, I sprayed, judiciously, the scroll wheel on a beloved and old friend MSFT Mouse. Even the solvent in the name brand CRC electronic cleaner dissolved the rubber and adhesive on the wheel….thus, Mickey has been sent to a a electronic recycling facility….God rest his soul and the $90 replacement blew my mind…

[Frank McElroy]

5 hours ago, Grey Goose said:

Where does the Alladin pick up the DC current charge and discharge amp reading for the house batteries? 

The positive cable passed through a current sensing coil just on the other side of the battery box.  Look between the large and small battery boxes where cables for the battery disconnect switches are located and you should see it.  The small wires go to the Aladdin module.

 

[Grey Goose]

12 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

The positive cable passed through a current sensing coil just on the other side of the battery box.  Look between the large and small battery boxes where cables for the battery disconnect switches are located and you should see it.  The small wires go to the Aladdin module.

 

Perfect! Thank you so much.

[John C]

On 2/18/2024 at 5:05 PM, Tom Cherry said:

As i said….you COULD disconnect the wires or a wire and then the BIRD board would STILL be operating.  These boards are scarce.  If I owned your MH, I would not continue to power the board. I’d let it be IDLE.  This is just as simple as pulling the wires…as the control board is still trying to put out the pulsed signal.

All you do…. Look on the back side of each disconnect switch….there are 4 terminals.  Two “studs” and two small control (power) wires.  Basically, the switch has two switches.  One for low current and the other for high. The low voltage switch is what supplies power to the board. The board gets power from BOTH Batteries, via the Disconnect Switches.  Remove ONE of the small wires…matters NOT.

The upside, of doing it propelry, is that you can also o the needed PM to tighten the high current studs. They sometimes loosen. Many if us, to avoid future issues, do a PM of major connections, AC & DC, every few years.

That’s my take and logic.  Do it either way, just understand the downside, to me of “tinkering” with circuits, to disable, without fuly understanding the issues.  

Based on what you have posted and needing Frank’s assistsnce as yiur slide control functions have been “aborted” or improperly modified..our advice to members is to ONLY do things that they are sure of and also meet the original deaign.

Having to run the engine just to operate the slides is the reverse of what Monaco recommended and also designed the slide control circuits to work….. Sort of like saying that in order to drive your car, you have to unbuckle the seatbelts….

If you ever have issues or need repairs, the cost of “reconstructing” the original or the decreased value of a “gee….what did they do and what were they thinking?” Is not good practice.

As I indicated, many posts ago. One should NEVER randomly, even with advice from seemingly knowledgeable members, modify wiring…. You document….have a copy and update or have an “AS MODIFIED” drawings for each print impacted. You need to FULLY understand why you need to “modify” and then, from, a wiring diagram standpoint, be able to understand the whys and why nots.  Techs who foster the “cut this and try that” often do more harm than good andnit costs twice or many times what they charged you to rectify…

That’s the way that our more knowledgeable members approach this.

Hope, this helps….

@Tom Cherry Hi, Tom, could you please tell me where is the 4 disconnect switches and terminal?

I attached a picture of my fuse box in the engine bay here

Thank you.

On 2/18/2024 at 4:29 PM, Frank McElroy said:

See page 92 for the low voltage high current wiring diagram.

 

 

If you need to have the engine running to extend the slide outs that's NOT how the coach was wired when it left the factory.  Someone has modified the low voltage high current circuit.  Please post a picture of the interior of your RRB (Rear Run Bay) electrical box.

@Frank McElroy

Hi,Frank,

Here is the picture of my RRB, I will love to find out how to fix this abnormal slideout behavior

Thank you!

[Frank McElroy]

7 hours ago, John C said:

@Tom Cherry

@Frank McElroy,Frank,

Here is the picture of my RRB, I will love to find out how to fix this abnormal slideout behavior

Thank you!

 

The picture of your RRB looks just like mine and very much appears OEM. 

I want to be sure that these facts are true for your coach 1) the hydraulic pump and generator starts from house batteries and not chassis batteries, 2) slides move in ONLY with the engine OFF and 3) slides move ONLY with the engine running are correct.

If the above 3 are correct, you actually have separate issues.

To sort them out, you will need to follow the low voltage high current wiring diagram and with turning off the battery disconnect switches be sure that battery inputs to the bottom of the RRB and side of the FRB are from the correct battery source cables.  If battery trays were reconfigured, the wrong battery source could have been connected to the RRB.  On the FRB, be sure the generator and hydraulic pump cables are connected to the chassis battery cable input stud.

As for the slide outs, the ignition slide lockout is an input to the Intellitec multiplex system in the bedroom cabinet.  In this system, the Intellitec CPU is programmed to activate the hydraulic pump relay and slide OUT solenoid ONLY when the ignition input signal is OFF.  However, the slide IN can be activated with the ignition ON or OFF.  So, either someone removed the ignition lockout sensing wire or reprogrammed the CPU (highly unlikely).  Please see if you have the ignition input wire J4 pin 2 connected to the module F on the Intellitec system and test to be sure it has voltage with the ignition switch turned ON.

 

[Grey Goose]

On 2/18/2024 at 6:29 PM, Frank McElroy said:

See page 92 for the low voltage high current wiring diagram.

 

 

If you need to have the engine running to extend the slide outs that's NOT how the coach was wired when it left the factory.  Someone has modified the low voltage high current circuit.  Please post a picture of the interior of your RRB (Rear Run Bay) electrical box.

Thank you for sharing the wiring diagram documents. It will save me a lot of time fumbling through the hard copies I have that do not have an index.

[Tom Cherry]

57 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

The picture of your RRB looks just like mine and very much appears OEM. 

I want to be sure that these facts are true for your coach 1) the hydraulic pump and generator starts from house batteries and not chassis batteries, 2) slides move in ONLY with the engine OFF and 3) slides move ONLY with the engine running are correct.

If the above 3 are correct, you actually have separate issues.

To sort them out, you will need to follow the low voltage high current wiring diagram and with turning off the battery disconnect switches be sure that battery inputs to the bottom of the RRB and side of the FRB are from the correct battery source cables.  If battery trays were reconfigured, the wrong battery source could have been connected to the RRB.  On the FRB, be sure the generator and hydraulic pump cables are connected to the chassis battery cable input stud.

As for the slide outs, the ignition slide lockout is an input to the Intellitec multiplex system in the bedroom cabinet.  In this system, the Intellitec CPU is programmed to activate the hydraulic pump relay and slide OUT solenoid ONLY when the ignition input signal is OFF.  However, the slide IN can be activated with the ignition ON or OFF.  So, either someone removed the ignition lockout sensing wire or reprogrammed the CPU (highly unlikely).  Please see if you have the ignition input wire J4 pin 2 connected to the module F on the Intellitec system and test to be sure it has voltage with the ignition switch turned ON.

 

Frank is the expert.  From a Layman’s perspective.  Read your manual. I think that I already posted the page number.  Locate the Battery Cutoff switches.  
 

They have 2 large studs (high current) and two small terminals (low or 12 VDC) you may have to “look” on the backside. If you follow Frank’s comments, there should be TWO small terminals with wires on each switch.  Disconnecting one wire…either one….on each switch will disable or remove the power from board 6.  

You did NOT take a picture of either switch…suggest you take the manual and walk around the MH and read sections 8 and 9. They are all in the manual and you must be able  identify them and be familiar before you take the steps you want to….to go “High Tech”….otherwise, the results may not be as advantageous as expected and you can do serious harm to the Mh?

Good Luck.

[John C]

13 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

The picture of your RRB looks just like mine and very much appears OEM. 

I want to be sure that these facts are true for your coach 1) the hydraulic pump and generator starts from house batteries and not chassis batteries, 2) slides move in ONLY with the engine OFF and 3) slides move ONLY with the engine running are correct.

If the above 3 are correct, you actually have separate issues.

To sort them out, you will need to follow the low voltage high current wiring diagram and with turning off the battery disconnect switches be sure that battery inputs to the bottom of the RRB and side of the FRB are from the correct battery source cables.  If battery trays were reconfigured, the wrong battery source could have been connected to the RRB.  On the FRB, be sure the generator and hydraulic pump cables are connected to the chassis battery cable input stud.

As for the slide outs, the ignition slide lockout is an input to the Intellitec multiplex system in the bedroom cabinet.  In this system, the Intellitec CPU is programmed to activate the hydraulic pump relay and slide OUT solenoid ONLY when the ignition input signal is OFF.  However, the slide IN can be activated with the ignition ON or OFF.  So, either someone removed the ignition lockout sensing wire or reprogrammed the CPU (highly unlikely).  Please see if you have the ignition input wire J4 pin 2 connected to the module F on the Intellitec system and test to be sure it has voltage with the ignition switch turned ON.

 

Hi,Frank,

Here is what I did, turn off the chassis battery by using the disconnect , then push the slideout "in" or "out", nothing happens, but if i turn on the chassis battery, I heard the sound of the motor when I push slideout "In", does that means the slide "in"  power is coming from chassis battery?

But if I push slideout "out" , nothing happens, the slideout "out" only works when I start the engine.

 

So my slideout is not working the way it is reverse what it suppose to be,  the slideout "in" only work when the engine is off and slideout "out" only work when engine is On.

 

 I do see 4 jumpers on top of the module F (please see attached) but they are not marked, so is 4th jumper from the top the "J4" you are talking about? if so, what is pin 2 ? from left or right? the are 3 pins on the 4th jumper, right now pin 2 is connected with pin 3 (assume the 1st from left is pin 1), do I connect the meter to the 1pin and 2 pin? or 2 pin and 3 pin? which pin do I connect the positive or negative probes?

Thanks!

 

[Frank McElroy]

35 minutes ago, John C said:

Hi,Frank,

Here is what I did, turn off the chassis battery by using the disconnect , then push the slideout "in" or "out", nothing happens, but if i turn on the chassis battery, I heard the sound of the motor when I push slideout "In", does that means the slide "in"  power is coming from chassis battery?

But if I push slideout "out" , nothing happens, the slideout "out" only works when I start the engine.

 

So my slideout is not working the way it is reverse what it suppose to be,  the slideout "in" only work when the engine is off and slideout "out" only work when engine is On.

 

 I do see 4 jumpers on top of the module F (please see attached) but they are not marked, so is 4th jumper from the top the "J4" you are talking about? if so, what is pin 2 ? from left or right? the are 3 pins on the 4th jumper, right now pin 2 is connected with pin 3 (assume the 1st from left is pin 1), do I connect the meter to the 1pin and 2 pin? or 2 pin and 3 pin? which pin do I connect the positive or negative probes?

Thanks!

 

Well - this is a first time that I've even seen the ignition slide lockout reversed.  Connector J4 is on the upper left of module F.  It has 3 wires.  Look closely at the circuit board and connector to see if pin numbers 1-5 are listed.  You want pin 2 and it should be a blue/red wire if the schematic is correct.  This would be your ignition input.  Unplug connector J4 and see if the slides work both IN and OUT.  Also see if you have voltage on the ignition input wire J4 pin 2 only with the ignition ON.