John C Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 14 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: Frank is the expert. From a Layman’s perspective. Read your manual. I think that I already posted the page number. Locate the Battery Cutoff switches. They have 2 large studs (high current) and two small terminals (low or 12 VDC) you may have to “look” on the backside. If you follow Frank’s comments, there should be TWO small terminals with wires on each switch. Disconnecting one wire…either one….on each switch will disable or remove the power from board 6. You did NOT take a picture of either switch…suggest you take the manual and walk around the MH and read sections 8 and 9. They are all in the manual and you must be able identify them and be familiar before you take the steps you want to….to go “High Tech”….otherwise, the results may not be as advantageous as expected and you can do serious harm to the Mh? Good Luck. 14 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: Frank is the expert. From a Layman’s perspective. Read your manual. I think that I already posted the page number. Locate the Battery Cutoff switches. They have 2 large studs (high current) and two small terminals (low or 12 VDC) you may have to “look” on the backside. If you follow Frank’s comments, there should be TWO small terminals with wires on each switch. Disconnecting one wire…either one….on each switch will disable or remove the power from board 6. You did NOT take a picture of either switch…suggest you take the manual and walk around the MH and read sections 8 and 9. They are all in the manual and you must be able identify them and be familiar before you take the steps you want to….to go “High Tech”….otherwise, the results may not be as advantageous as expected and you can do serious harm to the Mh? Good Luck. Hi,Tom, I believe I found the battery disconnect you are talking about (please see attached), it is in the battery bay, I believe it is the "large studs" you are talking about, Could you please confirm that? I am still trying to find the tow "small terminals with wires on each switch" 1 hour ago, Frank McElroy said: Well - this is a first time that I've even seen the ignition slide lockout reversed. Connector J4 is on the upper left of module F. It has 3 wires. Look closely at the circuit board and connector to see if pin numbers 1-5 are listed. You want pin 2 and it should be a blue/red wire if the schematic is correct. This would be your ignition input. Unplug connector J4 and see if the slides work both IN and OUT. Also see if you have voltage on the ignition input wire J4 pin 2 only with the ignition ON. Hi,Frank, Just want to make sure I am testing the right wire, could you please confirm I am looking at the right pins? Thank you. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 7 hours ago, John C said: Hi,Tom, I believe I found the battery disconnect you are talking about (please see attached), it is in the battery bay, I believe it is the "large studs" you are talking about, Could you please confirm that? I am still trying to find the tow "small terminals with wires on each switch" Hi,Frank, Just want to make sure I am testing the right wire, could you please confirm I am looking at the right pins? Thank you. John OK... @Frank McElroy and I talked. The location and the issues getting to the switches on the Dynasty's disconnect switches is the major issue. EDIT. Frank doesn’t appear to feel that having the #6 board disconnected is an issue. Of course, if his board dies, he can fix it. I would, and this is my logic, and opinion, disconnect the board. He has chimed in ….in the next post…. END OF EDIT Frank has posted, maybe somewhere else and not here a better solution. This is is and I will let him chime in or repost as needed. First.. MAKE SURE that the Battery Cutoff switch is ON and you have power to the lights and other 12 VDC items in the MH. Your lighted switch panels and such should be functional. Then, go to Board 6. Then if you disconnect the wiring harness to it, that will totally disable and power down that board and since that board kills the control wiring to the Big Boy, you have removed the Jumper or the connection from the House to the Chassis. This board also controls the Battery Boost... but since you have already, I think, disconnected...or maybe that is another poster, the power to the Big Boy....the battery boost was dead or no functional. Since this board also controls the House Power (Salesman's Switch) solenoid...then the two Solenoids will have been "LATCHED" on and you have power. That is the simpler way to disconnect power to the BIRD (Bi-Directional) system...which was the intent. You have, I think, spoken with Frank.... Here are the prints. I think, and Frank will verify, that there is on a single 6 or 8 pin connector to the board...so simply unplugging this will solve that issue.... Rear RUN box - Label and fuses 2007 Dynasty & Imperial and UP - BOARD 7.pdf 2007 Dynasty & UP RRB Components.pdf 2007 High Current Low Voltage RRB 38070173.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 First, if you you want to do is to disable big boy, you have 2 choices. 1) remove the small wire on the big boy solenoid or 2) unplug the 8 pin plug in RRB board #6 - this will also disable operation on the salesman switch latching relays. Trying to remove one of the sensing wires on a battery disconnect switch is way too hard to do on your coach. Access to the rear of these switches is via an access cover on the side of the small battery compartment and if you have batteries in there they would need to be removed for access. Second, the blue wire is the ignition ON sensing wire but BEFORE, testing this for voltage, unplug connector J4 and see if the slides go IN and OUT with BOTH the ignition ON and OFF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 15 hours ago, Frank McElroy said: First, if you you want to do is to disable big boy, you have 2 choices. 1) remove the small wire on the big boy solenoid or 2) unplug the 8 pin plug in RRB board #6 - this will also disable operation on the salesman switch latching relays. Trying to remove one of the sensing wires on a battery disconnect switch is way too hard to do on your coach. Access to the rear of these switches is via an access cover on the side of the small battery compartment and if you have batteries in there they would need to be removed for access. Second, the blue wire is the ignition ON sensing wire but BEFORE, testing this for voltage, unplug connector J4 and see if the slides go IN and OUT with BOTH the ignition ON and OFF. Hi,Frank, I removed the J4 connector (Please see attached, please let me know if that is not j4), it made no difference on the slide behavior, but I found out that I don't have to start the engine for the slide to work, I just need to turn on the key, the slide will work. I unplug the 5 connector wire from the board and put positive prob on the blue wire, I just connect the negative prob to to screw(please let me if I need to connect the negative prob somewhere else), (J4 is connected) 1) when the key is on : the voltage is between 48-54mv, if I remove the negative prob, the voltage is 0.6mv. 2) when the key is of : the voltage is between 1.2mv Please advise what that mean? Thank you What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 18 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: OK... @Frank McElroy and I talked. The location and the issues getting to the switches on the Dynasty's disconnect switches is the major issue. EDIT. Frank doesn’t appear to feel that having the #6 board disconnected is an issue. Of course, if his board dies, he can fix it. I would, and this is my logic, and opinion, disconnect the board. He has chimed in ….in the next post…. END OF EDIT Frank has posted, maybe somewhere else and not here a better solution. This is is and I will let him chime in or repost as needed. First.. MAKE SURE that the Battery Cutoff switch is ON and you have power to the lights and other 12 VDC items in the MH. Your lighted switch panels and such should be functional. Then, go to Board 6. Then if you disconnect the wiring harness to it, that will totally disable and power down that board and since that board kills the control wiring to the Big Boy, you have removed the Jumper or the connection from the House to the Chassis. This board also controls the Battery Boost... but since you have already, I think, disconnected...or maybe that is another poster, the power to the Big Boy....the battery boost was dead or no functional. Since this board also controls the House Power (Salesman's Switch) solenoid...then the two Solenoids will have been "LATCHED" on and you have power. That is the simpler way to disconnect power to the BIRD (Bi-Directional) system...which was the intent. You have, I think, spoken with Frank.... Here are the prints. I think, and Frank will verify, that there is on a single 6 or 8 pin connector to the board...so simply unplugging this will solve that issue.... Rear RUN box - Label and fuses 2007 Dynasty & Imperial and UP - BOARD 7.pdf 131.1 kB · 1 download 2007 Dynasty & UP RRB Components.pdf 155.55 kB · 1 download 2007 High Current Low Voltage RRB 38070173.pdf 182.45 kB · 1 download Hi, Tom, Actually I have not disconnected anything yet, very busy last couple of month, right now it is just dry run ::) I called Blue Sea System this morning and talked to the tech support, to my surprise, he told me that they current doesn't have any product work with lithium batteries! it will come out by the end of the year, right now their product only with acid batteries just like Big Boy does right now Because there are so many thing depend on the chassis batteries and I really like to be able to charge the chassis battery on constant basis, so I need to find a way to charge the chassis battery before I disconnect "Big Boy", I know someone charge the chassis batteries with solar panel, but I am planning to remove the factory 80w panel and put big ones to charge the house batteries. Once I figure out a way to charge the chassis batteries or when Blue Sea come out with a product working with lithium, I will then disconnect the "Big Boy" Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 8 hours ago, John C said: Hi,Frank, I removed the J4 connector (Please see attached, please let me know if that is not j4), it made no difference on the slide behavior, but I found out that I don't have to start the engine for the slide to work, I just need to turn on the key, the slide will work. I unplug the 5 connector wire from the board and put positive prob on the blue wire, I just connect the negative prob to to screw(please let me if I need to connect the negative prob somewhere else), (J4 is connected) 1) when the key is on : the voltage is between 48-54mv, if I remove the negative prob, the voltage is 0.6mv. 2) when the key is of : the voltage is between 1.2mv Please advise what that mean? Thank you What do you think? Those voltage readings are meaningless because a screw attaching the plastic case to plywood is NOT a proper ground. You should have used the ground bus bar near the bottom of the cabinet. With Module F J4 unplugged, since slides do NOT, move out unless the ignition is ON, most likely the issue is with configuration of the HWH control box. To get it fixed you will need to go back to the wiring schematics for the interface wiring between the Intellitec Multiplex system and the HWH control box and configuration of this control box. This is way to complex to solve online. If you are versed in reading wiring schematics and troubleshooting electrical systems and want to discuss in greater details, please send me a PM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 10 hours ago, John C said: Hi, Tom, Actually I have not disconnected anything yet, very busy last couple of month, right now it is just dry run ::) I called Blue Sea System this morning and talked to the tech support, to my surprise, he told me that they current doesn't have any product work with lithium batteries! it will come out by the end of the year, right now their product only with acid batteries just like Big Boy does right now Because there are so many thing depend on the chassis batteries and I really like to be able to charge the chassis battery on constant basis, so I need to find a way to charge the chassis battery before I disconnect "Big Boy", I know someone charge the chassis batteries with solar panel, but I am planning to remove the factory 80w panel and put big ones to charge the house batteries. Once I figure out a way to charge the chassis batteries or when Blue Sea come out with a product working with lithium, I will then disconnect the "Big Boy" Thank you. Well....now you know before you go fiddlin'. However, Blue Seas answered your question PROPERLY AS ASKED. BUT, the real difference is... The ML-ACR and the existing Dynasty System (Intellitec #6 Board) will NOT work with Lithiums. BUT, what Blue Seas said, should be "translated" into what they meant. Blue Seas does NOT, I think, make any charging systems. Unless someone or somebody came up with an Elaborate System....and maybe the will, it is a MATTER of having a totally different INVERTER/Charger. The Magnum, supposedly, will work with Lithiums...RIGHT. If you read all the REAL tech data, the Lithiums take a narrow range of voltage and the chargers MUST be balanced to provide the correct mix. There ARE chargers out there that do this. Maybe Inverter's... BUT, then, the Charger would have to be SMART enough to figure out WHICH batteries they are charging and then have TWO separate outputs...one for SLA or FLA or even AGM...and the OTHER for Lithiums. Frank McElroy chatted briefly about that. His SOLUTION.. Have the full fledged ML-ACR with the REMOTE function. When he drives....the ML-ACR will be OFF, so that he can NOT charge the Lithiums from the Chassis alternator. Thus, a DC to DC charger COULD do this...but if the batteries are low...it is gonna take time. NOW if you have a Lithium Charger/Inverter...then run your Genny whilst driving. That will provide AC and it will charge the Lithiums. One then has to assume that the Chassis bank is being charged... NOW....when you are camping... a DC to DC charger for the CHASSIS or a separately wired AC maintainer (maybe 5 amps) or so should keep them fully charged. The issue is NOT that Blue Seas doesn't make such....their ML-ACR will work...but you have to know WHEN to have it in the Auto Position. You will also have the BOOST function if you run the wiring and have the complete Remote up front...thus replacing the functions of board 6. YES.. You need to keep reading....and then sit down and draw out your circuit and plan it. BUT, you also have to understand HOW the Dynasty works....and what all Board 6 does...and if you abandon it...what the downside will be. For the interim...I don't dry camp enough. Frank and I concluded....as long as we can get 7 - 10 years out of our buggy whip Trojan T-105's...and use our OEM Magnums....then the capital outlay for upgrading is a NEGATIVE CASH FLOW. In addition, the constraints of charging Lithiums and then designing a "fool proof" configuration is really not cost effective... The same thing has been proven about AGM's...and Magnum WILL handle AGM's. Members do NOT exercise nor set up their Magnums...they just pop in a bank...paid say 40% more and were convinced that this is the FORGET IT method... They then have issues around 4 years. We have also had members that were convinced by a vendor that they would NEVER EVER have to touch their Lithiums...and that they would have unlimited life and increased amp hours. OPPS....now they were in for maybe 3 - 4 times the FLA Trojans. YES... Lithiums are coming down. BUT one needs to fully understand the complex interaction of the existing Monaco (your Dynasty is more unique than my Camelot) and then design a system and beta test it and talk to knowledgeable folks... WHO BTW... NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOUR DYNASTY WORKS... That's my take. I'm all for HIGH TECH. I had my OWN personal IBM PC in 1983 way before my company. It was a sub 10,000 SN. I have been in charge of engineering departments and went from paper to AuoCad and CAM and also purchased several CNC milling machine (one was over $1 Million) and I understand a LOT about electronics as well as basic circuits.. I have never paid any tech to repair a PC and do all my own upgrading.. So, I am not exactly a dummie.. I could program my old VHS. BUT, until a member(s) has the perfect solution....for a DYNASTY...which has not been the most common application..I'd be a little gunshy. NOW, remember that the Dynasty is also one that has had very little comments about "going high tech Lithium.... if I had a Dynasty...I'd be more inclined to understand my charging system and get the max out of my existing bank...then watch and read and talk offline to our experts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 9 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: Well....now you know before you go fiddlin'. However, Blue Seas answered your question PROPERLY AS ASKED. BUT, the real difference is... The ML-ACR and the existing Dynasty System (Intellitec #6 Board) will NOT work with Lithiums. BUT, what Blue Seas said, should be "translated" into what they meant. Blue Seas does NOT, I think, make any charging systems. Unless someone or somebody came up with an Elaborate System....and maybe the will, it is a MATTER of having a totally different INVERTER/Charger. The Magnum, supposedly, will work with Lithiums...RIGHT. If you read all the REAL tech data, the Lithiums take a narrow range of voltage and the chargers MUST be balanced to provide the correct mix. There ARE chargers out there that do this. Maybe Inverter's... BUT, then, the Charger would have to be SMART enough to figure out WHICH batteries they are charging and then have TWO separate outputs...one for SLA or FLA or even AGM...and the OTHER for Lithiums. Frank McElroy chatted briefly about that. His SOLUTION.. Have the full fledged ML-ACR with the REMOTE function. When he drives....the ML-ACR will be OFF, so that he can NOT charge the Lithiums from the Chassis alternator. Thus, a DC to DC charger COULD do this...but if the batteries are low...it is gonna take time. NOW if you have a Lithium Charger/Inverter...then run your Genny whilst driving. That will provide AC and it will charge the Lithiums. One then has to assume that the Chassis bank is being charged... NOW....when you are camping... a DC to DC charger for the CHASSIS or a separately wired AC maintainer (maybe 5 amps) or so should keep them fully charged. The issue is NOT that Blue Seas doesn't make such....their ML-ACR will work...but you have to know WHEN to have it in the Auto Position. You will also have the BOOST function if you run the wiring and have the complete Remote up front...thus replacing the functions of board 6. YES.. You need to keep reading....and then sit down and draw out your circuit and plan it. BUT, you also have to understand HOW the Dynasty works....and what all Board 6 does...and if you abandon it...what the downside will be. For the interim...I don't dry camp enough. Frank and I concluded....as long as we can get 7 - 10 years out of our buggy whip Trojan T-105's...and use our OEM Magnums....then the capital outlay for upgrading is a NEGATIVE CASH FLOW. In addition, the constraints of charging Lithiums and then designing a "fool proof" configuration is really not cost effective... The same thing has been proven about AGM's...and Magnum WILL handle AGM's. Members do NOT exercise nor set up their Magnums...they just pop in a bank...paid say 40% more and were convinced that this is the FORGET IT method... They then have issues around 4 years. We have also had members that were convinced by a vendor that they would NEVER EVER have to touch their Lithiums...and that they would have unlimited life and increased amp hours. OPPS....now they were in for maybe 3 - 4 times the FLA Trojans. YES... Lithiums are coming down. BUT one needs to fully understand the complex interaction of the existing Monaco (your Dynasty is more unique than my Camelot) and then design a system and beta test it and talk to knowledgeable folks... WHO BTW... NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW YOUR DYNASTY WORKS... That's my take. I'm all for HIGH TECH. I had my OWN personal IBM PC in 1983 way before my company. It was a sub 10,000 SN. I have been in charge of engineering departments and went from paper to AuoCad and CAM and also purchased several CNC milling machine (one was over $1 Million) and I understand a LOT about electronics as well as basic circuits.. I have never paid any tech to repair a PC and do all my own upgrading.. So, I am not exactly a dummie.. I could program my old VHS. BUT, until a member(s) has the perfect solution....for a DYNASTY...which has not been the most common application..I'd be a little gunshy. NOW, remember that the Dynasty is also one that has had very little comments about "going high tech Lithium.... if I had a Dynasty...I'd be more inclined to understand my charging system and get the max out of my existing bank...then watch and read and talk offline to our experts here. Tom and Frank @Frank McElroy, Reading Tom's post just give me a idea: What if I have two DC to DC chargers 1) one goes from Chassis battery to Lithium battery, this one will charge house batteries when I am driving 2) 2nd one from Lithium battery Chassis battery , this one will charge the chassis battery when I am not driving. Then I can just disable the Big Boy. Problem solved! What do you think? 11 hours ago, Frank McElroy said: Those voltage readings are meaningless because a screw attaching the plastic case to plywood is NOT a proper ground. You should have used the ground bus bar near the bottom of the cabinet. With Module F J4 unplugged, since slides do NOT, move out unless the ignition is ON, most likely the issue is with configuration of the HWH control box. To get it fixed you will need to go back to the wiring schematics for the interface wiring between the Intellitec Multiplex system and the HWH control box and configuration of this control box. This is way to complex to solve online. If you are versed in reading wiring schematics and troubleshooting electrical systems and want to discuss in greater details, please send me a PM. Frank, I will PM you when after I read the wire schematics. I am 100% sure I will have questions. Thank you. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wamcneil Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) Sure. You could use two dc-dc converters. That’s not much different from the two battery isolators originally on my dynasty. Might need to have a switch on them so only the one that you need is active Edited February 23 by wamcneil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 58 minutes ago, wamcneil said: Sure. You could use two dc-dc converters. That’s not much different from the two battery isolators originally on my dynasty. Might need to have a switch on them so only the one that you need is active However….if you have two DC-DC chargers….how you gonna get your inverter hooked up. Now, want to be totally creative….Get RID of the Magnum and get a Victron Multiplus charger/inverter….3000 watt model. Then use your Lithium's strictly for HOUSE POWER. Must match the Magnum Dual in/Dual out configuration. Get a good 3 stage FLA battery charger….then plug it in to a NON INVERTER Outlet….say your block heater. That will keep the chassis maintained. It can be maybe 25 amps….but it MUST be as good as the Magnum. OF COURSE, you COULD just keep the Magnum….and hook it up the Chassis battery. If push ever came to shove…you have a second inverter. NOW…here is where it gets TRICKY. You need a DUAL IN (30 Amp on each leg) Victron….and it needs to have two dedicated lines out. You just swap the in and out off the Magnum to the Victron…but you need the DUAL IN/ Dual OUT… if that is confusing….time to read the manual and also look at how the sub panel is wired….this is a MUST. The Magnum will use 20 amp breaker for the block hearer….all you do is just feed the 20A into each side….and you can rhen use a sub panel with two breakers feeding whatever outlets you want, Next up. Install the ML-ACR or NOT. A jumper cable from each bank (positive) will allow you to boost or use the Lithiums for starting…just remove it quickly as the Alternator ain’t gonna put out the controlled charging voltage. This is NOT NASA Rocket Science…you just need to know how each charging circuit works and how to utilize and purchase the right components, NOW, does Victron have a dual 30 in and a dual 20 out? NO IDEA, but if you don’t match that up, then you will not have the capacity or flexibility of the sub panel that the Magnum now feeds. Yiu have to look at the entire project….draw up the circuits a d understand. Good Luck…but “eliminate LUCK and substitute KNOWLEDGE… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ.STIGER Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 @John C This sounds something similar to what i just did. However i did not use 2 DC-DC converters. 1st -Installed Victorn DC-DC Converter to charge Lithium from alternator when the coach is on and running. 2nd - Installed Victron Blue Smart Charger. Plugged into the Heater Block outlet. (i know its switched) (yes i disabled by big boy relay) Here is my personal theory behind this other may disagree but its the way i am rolling. Both generator and coach start from the Chassis battery. So if i cant crank over the coach. I have been successful in starting the generator. Then i can turn on the inverter. And Flip the switch on the dash (for me) says Block Heater. And it will turn on the Victoron Blue Smart Charger. Charging at 17a in a short time i should be able to have enough juice to fire up the coach. Yes i did unplug the block heater. If i ever need it i can plug it in. But i can also use my Aqua Hot to warm up the block as its an option on my coach. I can also turn this switch on while on shore power to keep the chassis batteries charged. With the smart charger it will keep the topped off. And i dont have to worry about over charging or turning the switch off if forgotten. Not saying this is the right way or wrong way. But its 1 way to accomplish what you are speaking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, MJ.STIGER said: @John C This sounds something similar to what i just did. However i did not use 2 DC-DC converters. 1st -Installed Victorn DC-DC Converter to charge Lithium from alternator when the coach is on and running. 2nd - Installed Victron Blue Smart Charger. Plugged into the Heater Block outlet. (i know its switched) (yes i disabled by big boy relay) Here is my personal theory behind this other may disagree but its the way i am rolling. Both generator and coach start from the Chassis battery. So if i cant crank over the coach. I have been successful in starting the generator. Then i can turn on the inverter. And Flip the switch on the dash (for me) says Block Heater. And it will turn on the Victoron Blue Smart Charger. Charging at 17a in a short time i should be able to have enough juice to fire up the coach. Yes i did unplug the block heater. If i ever need it i can plug it in. But i can also use my Aqua Hot to warm up the block as its an option on my coach. I can also turn this switch on while on shore power to keep the chassis batteries charged. With the smart charger it will keep the topped off. And i dont have to worry about over charging or turning the switch off if forgotten. Not saying this is the right way or wrong way. But its 1 way to accomplish what you are speaking about. Very interesting, I never thought about that. Question, did you directly connect the Victron Blue Smart Charger to the chassis batteries or somewhere else? Where did you mount the Victron Blue Smart Charger in the engine bay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John C Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: However….if you have two DC-DC chargers….how you gonna get your inverter hooked up. Now, want to be totally creative….Get RID of the Magnum and get a Victron Multiplus charger/inverter….3000 watt model. Then use your Lithium's strictly for HOUSE POWER. Must match the Magnum Dual in/Dual out configuration. Get a good 3 stage FLA battery charger….then plug it in to a NON INVERTER Outlet….say your block heater. That will keep the chassis maintained. It can be maybe 25 amps….but it MUST be as good as the Magnum. OF COURSE, you COULD just keep the Magnum….and hook it up the Chassis battery. If push ever came to shove…you have a second inverter. NOW…here is where it gets TRICKY. You need a DUAL IN (30 Amp on each leg) Victron….and it needs to have two dedicated lines out. You just swap the in and out off the Magnum to the Victron…but you need the DUAL IN/ Dual OUT… if that is confusing….time to read the manual and also look at how the sub panel is wired….this is a MUST. The Magnum will use 20 amp breaker for the block hearer….all you do is just feed the 20A into each side….and you can rhen use a sub panel with two breakers feeding whatever outlets you want, Next up. Install the ML-ACR or NOT. A jumper cable from each bank (positive) will allow you to boost or use the Lithiums for starting…just remove it quickly as the Alternator ain’t gonna put out the controlled charging voltage. This is NOT NASA Rocket Science…you just need to know how each charging circuit works and how to utilize and purchase the right components, NOW, does Victron have a dual 30 in and a dual 20 out? NO IDEA, but if you don’t match that up, then you will not have the capacity or flexibility of the sub panel that the Magnum now feeds. Yiu have to look at the entire project….draw up the circuits a d understand. Good Luck…but “eliminate LUCK and substitute KNOWLEDGE… My understanding is DC to DC charger doesn't need to get inverter involved, you can bypass all the middleman 1) To charge the house battery from chassis battery a) Connect chassis battery bank to DC to DC charger, b) connect DC to DC Charger to Lithium battery bank you can setup the DC to DC charger (from Bluetooth) at certain voltage point (say 14v or so) to allow the DC to DC charger to kick in, since the Chassis battery voltage will be higher when the engine is running, it will charge the Lithium battery). When the engine is not running, the chassis battery voltage will be low. DC to DC Charger won't charger the Lithium battery, that way it will never drain the chassis battery. 2) To charge the chassis battery from Lithium battery bank a) Connect Lithium battery bank to DC to DC charger, b) connect DC to DC Charger to chassis battery bank you can setup the DC to DC charger (from Bluetooth) at certain voltage point (say 14v or so) to STOP the DC to DC charger to kick in, since the Chassis battery voltage will be higher when the engine is running, it won't charge the chassis battery when the engine is running. When the engine is not running, the chassis battery voltage low than preset value (say 14v). DC to DC Charger will charge the chassis battery from Lithium battery bank. Because the chassis battery bank is in the same compartment as house battery bank, that should be very easy to setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ.STIGER Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 29 minutes ago, John C said: Very interesting, I never thought about that. Question, did you directly connect the Victron Blue Smart Charger to the chassis batteries or somewhere else? Where did you mount the Victron Blue Smart Charger in the engine ba I connected the Victron BSC direct to the chassis batteries. I forgot to take a photo. but will do when i am back at the coach this weekend. I mounted my BSC to the left of the engine bay. and routed the wiring along existing loom. Also in new loom to the battery. Mounted to a piece of sheet metal existing above my radiator. I will grab a photo of that and the DC-DC charger. Made a quick mock up of what i did. **Note your coach might be different. This is how i did my design. Every thing in Loom. So when its dirty it will looks factory. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 10 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: However….if you have two DC-DC chargers….how you gonna get your inverter hooked up. Now, want to be totally creative….Get RID of the Magnum and get a Victron Multiplus charger/inverter….3000 watt model. Then use your Lithium's strictly for HOUSE POWER. Must match the Magnum Dual in/Dual out configuration. Get a good 3 stage FLA battery charger….then plug it in to a NON INVERTER Outlet….say your block heater. That will keep the chassis maintained. It can be maybe 25 amps….but it MUST be as good as the Magnum. OF COURSE, you COULD just keep the Magnum….and hook it up the Chassis battery. If push ever came to shove…you have a second inverter. NOW…here is where it gets TRICKY. You need a DUAL IN (30 Amp on each leg) Victron….and it needs to have two dedicated lines out. You just swap the in and out off the Magnum to the Victron…but you need the DUAL IN/ Dual OUT… if that is confusing….time to read the manual and also look at how the sub panel is wired….this is a MUST. The Magnum will use 20 amp breaker for the block hearer….all you do is just feed the 20A into each side….and you can rhen use a sub panel with two breakers feeding whatever outlets you want, Next up. Install the ML-ACR or NOT. A jumper cable from each bank (positive) will allow you to boost or use the Lithiums for starting…just remove it quickly as the Alternator ain’t gonna put out the controlled charging voltage. This is NOT NASA Rocket Science…you just need to know how each charging circuit works and how to utilize and purchase the right components, NOW, does Victron have a dual 30 in and a dual 20 out? NO IDEA, but if you don’t match that up, then you will not have the capacity or flexibility of the sub panel that the Magnum now feeds. Yiu have to look at the entire project….draw up the circuits a d understand. Good Luck…but “eliminate LUCK and substitute KNOWLEDGE… OK…followup. FIRST…the 2005 Exec and the 2007 Dynasty, MAY have the same #6 board controlling the big boy….would have to check. But i think so…just different chips. Also got some offline feedback…..one minor correction….so here is the “wrapup” My solution, per an expert is simple and cost effective and will work….and is the EASIEST to install…. I also had a thought this morning on an improvement. House - Replace the Magnum. One detail was …you will need a Dual 30 IN & Dual 30 OUT. Then the wiring will be simple. You will still have the same internal inverter capacity and no mods anywhere. Four AC line moved and new DC 4/0 cabling from the New Inverter, presumably Victron, to the Lithium bank.the recommendation is a 3000 Watt unit. Basically a clone of the existing inverter/charger. Chassis. Keep the Magnum inverter. Since it is only charging the Chassis….use the 20 Amp Block heater. Even with the charge rate set to 100%, it will only use 1,400 watts. Even a 15 amp 120 A circuit would work. Simple. NOW when you are on Shore or Genny, the Chassis is being charged…so they will be fine. When driving, the Alternator takes over. BOOST. BINGO…a Eureka thought as I woke up. Disconnect the 8 Pin connector from Board 6. Run a 5 Amp fused line from the Chassis and a 5 Amp fused line from the House. Need a simple SPDT selector switch. One side will be HOUSE and the other CHASSIS. The center or output wire from the switch goes to one terminal on the BIg Boy.. thus, you can select which side. This is important as one side may be “dead” so you need power from either. That is the SAME logic that the #6 Board has. Then, locate, the prints tell you, the signal from the Up FRONT existing Boost switch. On the Dyansty and such, that is a NEGATIVE or GROUND. Splice into that wire and run it to the other control or coil terminal on the Big Boy. BINGO….your front boost switch works and you go back to the RRB and chose the positive….HOUSE or CHASSIS. You now have a functional BOOST. No need for special DC-DC chargers or maintainers. You have a Lithium House system.. The Chassis now has a premium Charger (Magnum) and will never overcharge….and you can charge with alternator whilst driving. Boost switch works. I’d leave the simple selector switch set for HOUSE. You have one cable from the Lithium House to the Big Boy and one from the Chassis. The frot Boost switch is SPRING loaded…once you start…you release. No damage to the Lithiums. If I had a Dymasty, that would be the simplest….other than the cost of the Lithiums, the only additional outlay is for a NEW Inverter….and you are replacing an almost 20 odd year old unit and now have a HIGH TECH LITHIIUM HOUSE SYSTEM…the stated objectives….plus maintain a BOOST. Magnum eventually dies….then a much cheaper 30 - 50 Amp high end 3 stage charger/maintainer… That’s it…and my expert mentor says it will work and is easy, relatively speaking, to install. I think this is the solution. As an aside, I said I was NOT a Lithium expert….but I knew the basics….some of our experts are more familiar with the equipment out there….that is where I was not….but a little thought and research….and then, I have a solution….find the right replacement House Inverter…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said: OK…followup. FIRST…the 2005 Exec and the 2007 Dynasty, MAY have the same #6 board controlling the big boy….would have to check. But i think so…just different chips. Also got some offline feedback…..one minor correction….so here is the “wrapup” My solution, per an expert is simple and cost effective and will work….and is the EASIEST to install…. I also had a thought this morning on an improvement. House - Replace the Magnum. One detail was …you will need a Dual 30 IN & Dual 30 OUT. Then the wiring will be simple. You will still have the same internal inverter capacity and no mods anywhere. Four AC line moved and new DC 4/0 cabling from the New Inverter, presumably Victron, to the Lithium bank.the recommendation is a 3000 Watt unit. Basically a clone of the existing inverter/charger. Chassis. Keep the Magnum inverter. Since it is only charging the Chassis….use the 20 Amp Block heater. Even with the charge rate set to 100%, it will only use 1,400 watts. Even a 15 amp 120 A circuit would work. Simple. NOW when you are on Shore or Genny, the Chassis is being charged…so they will be fine. When driving, the Alternator takes over. BOOST. BINGO…a Eureka thought as I woke up. Disconnect the 8 Pin connector from Board 6. Run a 5 Amp fused line from the Chassis and a 5 Amp fused line from the House. Need a simple SPDT selector switch. One side will be HOUSE and the other CHASSIS. The center or output wire from the switch goes to one terminal on the BIg Boy.. thus, you can select which side. This is important as one side may be “dead” so you need power from either. That is the SAME logic that the #6 Board has. Then, locate, the prints tell you, the signal from the Up FRONT existing Boost switch. On the Dyansty and such, that is a NEGATIVE or GROUND. Splice into that wire and run it to the other control or coil terminal on the Big Boy. BINGO….your front boost switch works and you go back to the RRB and chose the positive….HOUSE or CHASSIS. You now have a functional BOOST. No need for special DC-DC chargers or maintainers. You have a Lithium House system.. The Chassis now has a premium Charger (Magnum) and will never overcharge….and you can charge with alternator whilst driving. Boost switch works. I’d leave the simple selector switch set for HOUSE. You have one cable from the Lithium House to the Big Boy and one from the Chassis. The frot Boost switch is SPRING loaded…once you start…you release. No damage to the Lithiums. If I had a Dymasty, that would be the simplest….other than the cost of the Lithiums, the only additional outlay is for a NEW Inverter….and you are replacing an almost 20 odd year old unit and now have a HIGH TECH LITHIIUM HOUSE SYSTEM…the stated objectives….plus maintain a BOOST. Magnum eventually dies….then a much cheaper 30 - 50 Amp high end 3 stage charger/maintainer… That’s it…and my expert mentor says it will work and is easy, relatively speaking, to install. I think this is the solution. As an aside, I said I was NOT a Lithium expert….but I knew the basics….some of our experts are more familiar with the equipment out there….that is where I was not….but a little thought and research….and then, I have a solution….find the right replacement House Inverter…. Edit - I missed the post from John C, it looks like he already covered this. Sorry I am not following on the bold. Why replace the Magnum inverter? Magnum has the capability of charging lithium (depending on the release level). And it is relatively easy to charge the chassis that really need nothing other than a maintance charge when the alternator is not running. Solutions for chassis charging - 1. Solar 2. DC/DC charger from house to chassis - low amperage unit would work and with the Victron you can program it to activate at certain voltages and control the charging profile as well. 3. A small battery maintainer plugged into 110/charges when on shore power - the logic of using the block heater works if you remember to flip the switch otherwise a smart charger wired to a 110 source permanently would maintain the chassis batteries whenever the alternator is not running. Edited February 23 by Grey Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 9 hours ago, John C said: My understanding is DC to DC charger doesn't need to get inverter involved, you can bypass all the middleman 1) To charge the house battery from chassis battery a) Connect chassis battery bank to DC to DC charger, b) connect DC to DC Charger to Lithium battery bank you can setup the DC to DC charger (from Bluetooth) at certain voltage point (say 14v or so) to allow the DC to DC charger to kick in, since the Chassis battery voltage will be higher when the engine is running, it will charge the Lithium battery). When the engine is not running, the chassis battery voltage will be low. DC to DC Charger won't charger the Lithium battery, that way it will never drain the chassis battery. 2) To charge the chassis battery from Lithium battery bank a) Connect Lithium battery bank to DC to DC charger, b) connect DC to DC Charger to chassis battery bank you can setup the DC to DC charger (from Bluetooth) at certain voltage point (say 14v or so) to STOP the DC to DC charger to kick in, since the Chassis battery voltage will be higher when the engine is running, it won't charge the chassis battery when the engine is running. When the engine is not running, the chassis battery voltage low than preset value (say 14v). DC to DC Charger will charge the chassis battery from Lithium battery bank. Because the chassis battery bank is in the same compartment as house battery bank, that should be very easy to setup. Agree, no need to touch the inverter wiring if you are doing a dc to dc charger. I connected mine to the batteries directly with a dc breaker to protect the wiring. I am contemplating making the connection at the big boy so the Alladin will pick up the charge current. But I am currently getting the voltage reading so I can tell if it is charging or not, so it is low on my priority list. Edited February 23 by Grey Goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wamcneil Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 23 minutes ago, Grey Goose said: 3. A small battery maintainer plugged into 110/charges when on shore power - the logic of using the block heater works if you remember to flip the switch otherwise a smart charger wired to a 110 source permanently would maintain the chassis batteries whenever the alternator is not running. That was my first approach before installing a dc-dc converter. In general, I like this approach, but I wound up replacing it with a dc-dc converter. My first attempt was to upgrade the small "smart" battery charger I keep in the garage and use that old noco "smart" battery charger zip-tied overhead and plugged into the block heater port to maintain the chassis battery. That "smart" battery charger would periodically get confused and decide the chassis batteries were bad and shut down. And of course I wouldn't discover this till the battery was dead... So I replaced it with a bigger fixed-mount 10a noco "smart" charger, which worked better, but every now and then would get confused and shut down... and the battery would go dead again... If you're going to do this... don't use a noco "smart" charger. Maybe it's just my luck. I don't know. Hopefully the victron chargers won't be like that. The victron dc-dc converter doesn't try and outsmart me and it just supplies the voltage that I tell it to and that's all it needs to do. One problem with this setup is what happens if the chassis battery goes dead. That block heater outlet is controlled by a relay, that is powered by the chassis battery. So if your chassis battery is dead you can't use the charger to charge it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, wamcneil said: That was my first approach before installing a dc-dc converter. In general, I like this approach, but I wound up replacing it with a dc-dc converter. My first attempt was to upgrade the small "smart" battery charger I keep in the garage and use that old noco "smart" battery charger zip-tied overhead and plugged into the block heater port to maintain the chassis battery. That "smart" battery charger would periodically get confused and decide the chassis batteries were bad and shut down. And of course I wouldn't discover this till the battery was dead... So I replaced it with a bigger fixed-mount 10a noco "smart" charger, which worked better, but every now and then would get confused and shut down... and the battery would go dead again... If you're going to do this... don't use a noco "smart" charger. Maybe it's just my luck. I don't know. Hopefully the victron chargers won't be like that. The victron dc-dc converter doesn't try and outsmart me and it just supplies the voltage that I tell it to and that's all it needs to do. One problem with this setup is what happens if the chassis battery goes dead. That block heater outlet is controlled by a relay, that is powered by the chassis battery. So if your chassis battery is dead you can't use the charger to charge it... You are right on about the block heater but you can always just run an extension cord if you get to that point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wamcneil Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said: ... House - Replace the Magnum. One detail was …you will need a Dual 30 IN & Dual 30 OUT. Then the wiring will be simple. You will still have the same internal inverter capacity and no mods anywhere. Four AC line moved and new DC 4/0 cabling from the New Inverter, presumably Victron, to the Lithium bank.the recommendation is a 3000 Watt unit. Basically a clone of the existing inverter/charger. ... What's the motivation to replace the inverter? Surely victron doesn't have multiple on-board chargers to maintian house and chassis separately? It's been a couple years since I've shopped for an inverter, but at that time, magnum and xantrex were the only vendors that I could find with dual-in/dual-out. Edited February 23 by wamcneil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, wamcneil said: That was my first approach before installing a dc-dc converter. In general, I like this approach, but I wound up replacing it with a dc-dc converter. My first attempt was to upgrade the small "smart" battery charger I keep in the garage and use that old noco "smart" battery charger zip-tied overhead and plugged into the block heater port to maintain the chassis battery. That "smart" battery charger would periodically get confused and decide the chassis batteries were bad and shut down. And of course I wouldn't discover this till the battery was dead... So I replaced it with a bigger fixed-mount 10a noco "smart" charger, which worked better, but every now and then would get confused and shut down... and the battery would go dead again... If you're going to do this... don't use a noco "smart" charger. Maybe it's just my luck. I don't know. Hopefully the victron chargers won't be like that. The victron dc-dc converter doesn't try and outsmart me and it just supplies the voltage that I tell it to and that's all it needs to do. One problem with this setup is what happens if the chassis battery goes dead. That block heater outlet is controlled by a relay, that is powered by the chassis battery. So if your chassis battery is dead you can't use the charger to charge it... Are you using the bluetooth Victron DC/DC charger? If so how is the range? I cannot connect to mine unless I am in the rear of the coach. I have other blue tooth devices located in the same compartment that have much better range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wamcneil Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) no. It's just a plain Victron Orion-TR DC-DC 18AMP ORI121222110. I figured that in this application I wouldn't be interested in any of the bluetooth features. Output voltage is just set with a potentiometer Edited February 23 by wamcneil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wamcneil Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 9 hours ago, John C said: you can setup the DC to DC charger (from Bluetooth) at certain voltage point (say 14v or so) to allow the DC to DC charger to kick in, since the Chassis battery voltage will be higher when the engine is running, it will charge the Lithium battery). When the engine is not running, the chassis battery voltage will be low. DC to DC Charger won't charger the Lithium battery, that way it will never drain the chassis battery. ... you can setup the DC to DC charger (from Bluetooth) at certain voltage point (say 14v or so) to STOP the DC to DC charger to kick in, since the Chassis battery voltage will be higher when the engine is running, it won't charge the chassis battery when the engine is running. When the engine is not running, the chassis battery voltage low than preset value (say 14v). DC to DC Charger will charge the chassis battery from Lithium battery bank. IMO that's a compelling reason to upgrade to the bluetooth version of the DC-DC converter. I didn't think about that before I got the plain version and the only setting is output voltage. It would be really nice to set cut-in and cut-out voltages. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ.STIGER Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 GreyGoose i will tell you i have the same issue with bluetooth from Victrons stuff in the engine Bay. Likely due to all the metal and heat shielding. And the Lithium batteries with bluetooh BMS in the Metal battery compartment. Range is horrible. But i live with it and trust the $$ system that i chose to do the job. It would be nice to see the data while in motion. Now if the Cerbo has bluetooth connectivity to devices like Chargers and such. That would be one way to get the data to a display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Goose Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 7 minutes ago, MJ.STIGER said: GreyGoose i will tell you i have the same issue with bluetooth from Victrons stuff in the engine Bay. Likely due to all the metal and heat shielding. And the Lithium batteries with bluetooh BMS in the Metal battery compartment. Range is horrible. But i live with it and trust the $$ system that i chose to do the job. It would be nice to see the data while in motion. Now if the Cerbo has bluetooth connectivity to devices like Chargers and such. That would be one way to get the data to a display. I cannot make an excuse for Victron because of the location when I can buy a very inexpensive, AA battery powered temp sensor and place it in the same location and get at least double the range that the Victron has. 10 minutes ago, wamcneil said: IMO that's a compelling reason to upgrade to the bluetooth version of the DC-DC converter. I didn't think about that before I got the plain version and the only setting is output voltage. It would be really nice to set cut-in and cut-out voltages. Yes, you could basically mimic the BIRD/Big boy system as far as charging logic goes. And in this case enhance the logic to support lithium. And in my mind you would not need much capacity (charge rate) for the house to chassis charging function as you should just be maintaining the chassis batteries in most scenarios. Edited February 23 by Grey Goose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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