Hydraulic slides and Generator slide not working. 2001 Signature.

[Ingram Ranch]

the hydraulic  slide out and the generator slide would not work when we got home from a trip yesterday.  it sounded like no power to the motor.  this morning they will work.  i noticed a leak under the front of the coach on the trip.  would the motor not work if the fluid level went to low?  i am gonna crawl under and check the fluid this morning.  i am looking for a mobile repairman to fix the leak  first.  

[Ivan K]

Our 2000 hydraulic pump would run without fluid and is powered by chassis batteries off the same post in FRB as the generator starter. If the generator turns over, the pump should have power to its solenoid as well. Baggage door switches under slide could prevent it from working too.

[RWHenhouse]

I've had the same problem a couple of times.  If none of the hydraulic slides work (intermittently) its likely a bad hydraulic pump ground, or a sticky Nason switch.  The Nason switch won't allow the pump to run unless the park brake is on.  As Ivan says the pump doesn't know if it has any fluid to pump.

[Tom Cherry]

On 3/5/2024 at 10:05 AM, Ivan K said:

Our 2000 hydraulic pump would run without fluid and is powered by chassis batteries off the same post in FRB as the generator starter. If the generator turns over, the pump should have power to its solenoid as well. Baggage door switches under slide could prevent it from working too.

Pull the prints.  Memory tells me that there are two separate circuits to operate the pump.  The “slide system” has one set of controls.  The Grnerator slide has another set of controls.  Thus is ONE circuit works and the other doesn’t, it is in the control circuit of the non functioning system.  The door switches are the first place to check.  The pump solenoid would,have come on even if the reservoir was dry. I do NOT think (99% confidence) that there was ever a “reservoir float switch” for fluid…

EDIT….since BOTH did not work, look at the print on the system.  There are two control circuits.  I THINK that the “door switches” are NOT on the Generator side.  That means that the Nasan or parking break switch, which, I recall, is common to both, is the likely candidate…..Electronic Gremlin….just have to keep isolating and troubleshooting.

[Frank Bergamo]

There is also a relay switch mounted on the pump motor itself. It will work intermittently then quit all together. It will have a band clamp going around the motor. These are used on dump trailers if you need to source one. Hope this helps.

[Ivan K]

I missed the observation that generator slide does not work either. Looking at HWH diagram, the only lockout for generator should be the park brake switch. Ours does not even use that however.

Edited March 6 by Ivan K

[RWHenhouse]

The last time my hydraulic slides all failed I assumed that I had a bad ground.  I ruled that out.  Then had my wife push the slide button and determined that I was getting a signal at the pump solenoid/relay switch.  I shorted the solenoid while she pushed the button and got the slide in.  Assuming that I had a failed solenoid, I replaced that.  Still didn't work.  When I grounded the terminal attached to the Nason(park brake) switch it worked flawlessly.  I replaced the Nason switch and haven't had any problems with it since.

[Tom Cherry]

OK....Let's get back to basics.  Look at the attached Print.  The Dynasty and UP (Exec) are the same.  Look in the middle FAR RIGHT section of the drawing.

There is the Parking Brake switch. When it is PULLED UP or ON, there are two things that happen. A GROUND signal from the Switch goes to the Red Parking Brake Light (Dash) switch.  The OTHER side of that light has PLUS 12 VDC. 

That GROUND also goes directly to the pump Solenoid GROUND. That is a BLUE Wire. The Solenoid HAS to be GROUNDED to work.  SO...  This is COMMON FOR BOTH the House Slides and the Generator Slides.  SO....that Nasan Parking Brake SWITCH's GROUND is necessary.  If you GROUND out the BLUE WIre and the Slides WORK....BINGO....the Parking Brake Switch is the CULPRIT.

OK....Follow along.  Look at the House Slide Switch in the lower LEFT CORNER.  The Slide LOCKOUT RELAY provides POWER to the Door Switches....they are DAISY CHAINED....so ALL have to work.  Then when you move the Slide Switch EITHER WAY.... Terminal 5 on the switch makes contact with either Terminal 4 or 6.  They ARE JUMPERED....so you get 12 VDC to the Solenoid.  THAT is what Energizes the SOLENOID...  BUT...Follow that wire.  It is a #16 GRAY wire.  It GOES to a Terminal on the Solenoid.  There are TWO wires here.  THEY are the RETURN POWER to both the Genny Slide Switch and the House Slide Switch....If you trace the OTHER wire back....it goes to the Generator Slide Switch.

SO...here is what happens.  EITHER of the TWO systems will send 12 VDC to the Solenoid.  THIS ENERGIZES the Solenoid.  This STARTS the PUMP.  How the PUMP SAYS...  OK....WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Look at the Solenoid.  Power is coming in, I THINK, on the LEFT Terminal (2 Gag to FRT RUN BAY).  When the Solenoid is energized....the Pump Motor Circuit sends power to the Hydraulic Pump (2 Ga) through the Solenoid....and onto the PUMP MOTOR....MOTOR RUNS.

BUT...If you look Stud on the RIGHT side of the Solenoid, it also has TWO WIRES.  These wires, via fuses go back to the SLIDE SWITCH as WELL AS the GENERATOR SWITCH.  Look at the Slide Switch on the lower LEFT.  Power comes in on Terminal 2...  Then depending on WHICH WAY the Switch is PUSHED....one of the Hydraulic Valves gets POWER.  One SIDE moves it IN and the OTHER SIDE moves it out.  The PUMP Solenoid HAS to be closed and then it also feeds POWER to the Switches.

Likewise, if you are running the Generator Slide....then the Power signal from the Pump Solenoid, via the FUSE goes to the SWITCH.  Then which ever way the switch is pushed...you get Power to the Solenoids in the UPPER LEFT of the PRINT.

SO....BOTH DON'T WORK.  It has to be the GROUND SIDE (Parking Brake Switch. 

One WORKS....and the other doesn't... Then the House Slide Circuit is suspect as it has a relay and FOUR DOORS to go through...  

Genny doesn't work...  Same deal, the Generator DOOR is involved,

This is a "Tricky" circuit....you have to follow the GROUND side and the PLUS 12 VDC side to figure it out.  The Motor Solenoid is also switching CONTROL power....not just HIGH CURRENT to the motor. It the ENERGIZES the Directional Switch and that provides power to the Valves or Solenoids to control the flow and the direction...

Hope this helps.... 

2001dynasty Hydraulic Slide.pdf

[Les Hurdle]

Hope I'm not mixing apples and oranges here [apparently I do]

My generator sits in the front on rails and was a PITA to move in and out.  Cleaned up the rails, much better.

The [electric?] slides always seem to grind and bump along.  The rollers look like they are coated with old lubricant as do the gear racks. 

What is;

Best way to clean goop off and then which is the best lubricant to apply to everything?

Thanks one and all for the info

L

 

[Les Hurdle]

Hope you can see the pic enclosed.

The corners of my slides have had some 'fabric' added at some time.  It is now shot.

Anyrecommendations as to corner pieces which can be bought or re-manufactured via something else?

Les

[Bill C]

On 3/6/2024 at 5:43 PM, Tom Cherry said:

OK....Let's get back to basics.  Look at the attached Print.  The Dynasty and UP (Exec) are the same.  Look in the middle FAR RIGHT section of the drawing.

There is the Parking Brake switch. When it is PULLED UP or ON, there are two things that happen. A GROUND signal from the Switch goes to the Red Parking Brake Light (Dash) switch.  The OTHER side of that light has PLUS 12 VDC. 

That GROUND also goes directly to the pump Solenoid GROUND. That is a BLUE Wire. The Solenoid HAS to be GROUNDED to work.  SO...  This is COMMON FOR BOTH the House Slides and the Generator Slides.  SO....that Nasan Parking Brake SWITCH's GROUND is necessary.  If you GROUND out the BLUE WIre and the Slides WORK....BINGO....the Parking Brake Switch is the CULPRIT.

OK....Follow along.  Look at the House Slide Switch in the lower LEFT CORNER.  The Slide LOCKOUT RELAY provides POWER to the Door Switches....they are DAISY CHAINED....so ALL have to work.  Then when you move the Slide Switch EITHER WAY.... Terminal 5 on the switch makes contact with either Terminal 4 or 6.  They ARE JUMPERED....so you get 12 VDC to the Solenoid.  THAT is what Energizes the SOLENOID...  BUT...Follow that wire.  It is a #16 GRAY wire.  It GOES to a Terminal on the Solenoid.  There are TWO wires here.  THEY are the RETURN POWER to both the Genny Slide Switch and the House Slide Switch....If you trace the OTHER wire back....it goes to the Generator Slide Switch.

SO...here is what happens.  EITHER of the TWO systems will send 12 VDC to the Solenoid.  THIS ENERGIZES the Solenoid.  This STARTS the PUMP.  How the PUMP SAYS...  OK....WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Look at the Solenoid.  Power is coming in, I THINK, on the LEFT Terminal (2 Gag to FRT RUN BAY).  When the Solenoid is energized....the Pump Motor Circuit sends power to the Hydraulic Pump (2 Ga) through the Solenoid....and onto the PUMP MOTOR....MOTOR RUNS.

BUT...If you look Stud on the RIGHT side of the Solenoid, it also has TWO WIRES.  These wires, via fuses go back to the SLIDE SWITCH as WELL AS the GENERATOR SWITCH.  Look at the Slide Switch on the lower LEFT.  Power comes in on Terminal 2...  Then depending on WHICH WAY the Switch is PUSHED....one of the Hydraulic Valves gets POWER.  One SIDE moves it IN and the OTHER SIDE moves it out.  The PUMP Solenoid HAS to be closed and then it also feeds POWER to the Switches.

Likewise, if you are running the Generator Slide....then the Power signal from the Pump Solenoid, via the FUSE goes to the SWITCH.  Then which ever way the switch is pushed...you get Power to the Solenoids in the UPPER LEFT of the PRINT.

SO....BOTH DON'T WORK.  It has to be the GROUND SIDE (Parking Brake Switch. 

One WORKS....and the other doesn't... Then the House Slide Circuit is suspect as it has a relay and FOUR DOORS to go through...  

Genny doesn't work...  Same deal, the Generator DOOR is involved,

This is a "Tricky" circuit....you have to follow the GROUND side and the PLUS 12 VDC side to figure it out.  The Motor Solenoid is also switching CONTROL power....not just HIGH CURRENT to the motor. It the ENERGIZES the Directional Switch and that provides power to the Valves or Solenoids to control the flow and the direction...

Hope this helps.... 

2001dynasty Hydraulic Slide.pdf 134.77 kB · 6 downloads

Good Day Tom Cherry,

    You seem pretty knowledgeable about this slide/Gen configuration, and I'm hoping you can answer my question.

    My LR slide and Gen both seem to have the same issue: They move for a second or two and then stop. It takes a little time (5-10 sec) before they will move again, but then stop again after a second or two. I was thinking it was a time out fuse (fuse would reset after a few seconds), but in my wiring diagram I don't see one of those, and in ready the post by Frank B (There is also a relay switch mounted on the pump motor itself. It will work intermittently then quit all together. It will have a band clamp going around the motor. These are used on dump trailers if you need to source one. Hope this helps.), I'm thinking it is my pump motor relay switch. Is this relay switch replaceable, since it is mounted on the pump motor itself, of do I have to replace the pump motor, in order to replace the relay switch.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Bill C

On 3/6/2024 at 1:05 PM, Frank Bergamo said:

There is also a relay switch mounted on the pump motor itself. It will work intermittently then quit all together. It will have a band clamp going around the motor. These are used on dump trailers if you need to source one. Hope this helps.

Hi Frank B,  

Is this relay switch replaceable, since it is mounted on the pump motor itself, of do I have to replace the pump motor, in order to replace the relay switch.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Bill C

Edited May 10 by Bill C

[Ivan K]

I am only chiming in because ours could be the same configuration and if so, we have a 15A self resetable breaker on the driver side run plate in engine room (very left bottom). It supplies power to the system but not the motor. That one gets power from a post in FRB, same as the generator. 

[Frank Bergamo]

Yes, they are replaceable. Some are mounted with a band type clamp, similar to a hose clamp. Others are bolted to a mounting plate with small bolts or screws. Once you see what type you have, pretty self explanatory what needs to be done to remove. In addressing the starting and stopping, does the pump motor stop running, or runs but you get no movement? If pump runs with no movement, then check fluid level is full. Hope this helps.

[Tom Cherry]

5 minutes ago, Bill C said:

Good Day Tom Cherry,

    You seem pretty knowledgeable about this slide/Gen configuration, and I'm hoping you can answer my question.

    My LR slide and Gen both seem to have the same issue: They move for a second or two and then stop. It takes a little time (5-10 sec) before they will move again, but then stop again after a second or two. I was thinking it was a time out fuse (fuse would reset after a few seconds), but in my wiring diagram I don't see one of those, and in ready the post by Frank B (There is also a relay switch mounted on the pump motor itself. It will work intermittently then quit all together. It will have a band clamp going around the motor. These are used on dump trailers if you need to source one. Hope this helps.), I'm thinking it is my pump motor relay switch. Is this relay switch replaceable, since it is mounted on the pump motor itself, of do I have to replace the pump motor, in order to replace the relay switch.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Bill C

Hi Frank B,  

Is this relay switch replaceable, since it is mounted on the pump motor itself, of do I have to replace the pump motor, in order to replace the relay switch.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Bill C

FIRST…you need to tell up if the slides are ELECTRIC or Hydraulic.  
 

The “solenoid” or misnamed “relay” is USUALLY attached around the hydraulic motor.  Yes….a cheap band clamp.  That solenoid has a 12 VDC powered coil.  The reason it is “more properly” a solenoid is the current.  All the 5 pin Bosch relays used throughout the MH have either 25 or 30 Amp rated contacts.  Typically, a Hydraulic motor on the Lippert  or maybe even the HWH System will pull a max of say, 100 AMPS.  Thus the device that “turns on or switches” the power to the motor is properly named a “SOLENOID.  OK…

Real world.  You can buy more brands of 12 VDC solenoids with 100 Amp contacts than “Carter has Pills”…look that up if it ain’t in your vocabulary.

They come in many different designs.  Lippert uses one that is easy to mount with a band clamp. Folks have bought Solenoids on Amazon with 200 Amp contacts.  They have to run new cables as the cables were cut to length for the OEM.  Move it a foot over….revise the cables or have new cut.

A motor solenoid is replaceable….with the OEM (drop in fit….cables work)….or remote mount it and revise the cables.  NO DIFFERENCE…..it will work.

NOW….there are solenoids that are more complex….the simple one above has two large studs….incoming and outgoing power. The Motor always RUNS in one direction. The small (hydraulic) solenoids open and close and change the flow of the fluid….

The more complex ones have multiple terminals.  They actually have TWO Coils.  One coil sends the positive to say, the RIGHT Stud on the moter….as well as the Negative to the LEFT stud.  The other coil, magically reverse the Polarity snd Positive goes to the LEFT and ground or Negative to the RIGHT.  Bingo….on extension…the motor, say, rotates CLOCKWISE.  When the OTHER Coil is energized…to retract….the solenoid reverses the polarity…so the Motor turns CounterClockwise.

Which do you have and which brand…. I haven’t a clue. BUT if you read the manual there is, very HIGH probability, of a complete description and an illustration of the System….  FIND IT.  Locate it.  MOST of the HWH systems are near the steps….the manual tells you,

NOW…IF you have a hydraulic system….there can be a number of reasons for the delay.  Is the reservoir filled properly.  When slides are retracted, the reservoir should have fluid almost up to the cap…or where the cap screws down on..  YES, a Solenoid with BURNED or pitted contacts could be arcing internally….and need replacement.  Is there AIR in the lines,  on a Hydraulic system, you are supposed to HOLD ON the direction button  or switch  even AFTER the slide stops.  Maybe 3 seconds….or until the whine or noise or pitch of the motor changes….folks often stop….and that traps air.  You need to move them in and out several cycles….maybe 5 seconds….or until you pickup the motor’s drastic noise change.  It takes several ins and outs….each one with the PROPER “ON” or few seconds….to purge a messed up system…

NEXT UP.  You will need to have someone work the slides..put a DVOM on the motor studs.  Then have someone move the slide….if it pauses…or hesitates….diid the Voltage drop maybe 1/2 to 2 VDC.  Should be constant….OK a little variation….but stay generally uniform for the entire cycle.  If it bounces around….odds are a ELECTRIC issue like the contacts on the Motor Solenoid pitted…. Then, you do it again….this time measure the voltage on the INCOMING side…if it is constant or drops a bit….and doesn’t fluctuate….in the solenoid….if not….bad connection upstream….snd that  a lot of electrical knowledge and Time.

IF ELECTRIC, there is a motor or motors driving the mechanism.  Some Dynasty’s have dual IN THE WALL Motors….others under and such.

WITHOUT knowing the brand and model and type….all hypothetical…post the pictures of the system….read the manual and FIND IT….many have the same system…and know how to help you…

[Bill C]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

I am only chiming in because ours could be the same configuration and if so, we have a 15A self resetable breaker on the driver side run plate in engine room (very left bottom). It supplies power to the system but not the motor. That one gets power from a post in FRB, same as the generator. 

Hi Ivan, nice of you to help out "again" 🙂

Good call, I'll check that out, it sounds like the culprit 🙂

Thanks

Bill

1 hour ago, Frank Bergamo said:

Yes, they are replaceable. Some are mounted with a band type clamp, similar to a hose clamp. Others are bolted to a mounting plate with small bolts or screws. Once you see what type you have, pretty self explanatory what needs to be done to remove. In addressing the starting and stopping, does the pump motor stop running, or runs but you get no movement? If pump runs with no movement, then check fluid level is full. Hope this helps.

Thanks Frank

[Bill C]

On 5/10/2024 at 7:04 PM, Frank Bergamo said:

Yes, they are replaceable. Some are mounted with a band type clamp, similar to a hose clamp. Others are bolted to a mounting plate with small bolts or screws. Once you see what type you have, pretty self explanatory what needs to be done to remove. In addressing the starting and stopping, does the pump motor stop running, or runs but you get no movement? If pump runs with no movement, then check fluid level is full. Hope this helps.

Thanks Frank

[Bill C]

Just to close the loop on this request for help.

The problem was a result of my replacing the chassis batteries at the same time.

Let me explain: My chassis batteries were 6 years old and leaking acid so I decided to replace them. I had to drive to a nearby city to get them at NAPA auto parts. It seems that the size/type 31, in high-capacity starting batteries are not so common. My best option/price seemed to be NAPA, and since there is none in the small town I am in, I had to drive about 45 min to get them. Accordingly, to get the core charge back, I removed my old ones and took them with me. I turned off the master cutoff switch for my chassis batteries. The new batteries did not have posts for the battery cables, but instead had threaded posts. NAPA, nor my local auto parts stores did not have what I needed so off to Amazon to order screw on posts. While waiting for the screw on posts I decided to finish my generator project. Long story about that, but when moving to Gen in/out I ran in to the issue of it stopping after a few seconds, sounding like a bad resettable fuse. I went in the back of the coach where the resettable fuse was, as Ivan said it was. I trouble shot this fuse and all was good. While doing this I noticed a clicking sound in the other compartment in the Eng. compartment. It was the battery boost solenoid. Why in the world would this be tripping when trying to move the GEN? I decided, at this point, it could be the fact that my chassis batteries where still not hooked up yet. I decided to wait until they were installed and connected. Low and behold, this solved the GEN slide issue.

Thanks for all the wonderful tips and advice. I hope this summary helps someone else someday.

 

Regards,

Bill C 

[96 EVO]

Early 2000's high end Monaco built coaches..... Ivan is the man!