Will the Norcold 1210 Ultraline RV refrigerator easily fit in the Norcold 1200LR space?

[Bill C]

I realize that there is a lot of discussion about replacing the old Norcold 1200 with a residential refrigerator, but if we could please just keep this discussion about:

Will the Norcold 1210 Ultraline RV refrigerator easily fit in the Norcold 1200LR space?

Is there an alternative propane/electric refrigerator RV model that will easily fit in the Norcold 1200 space, please share that as well.

 

Thanks in advance,

Bill

 

[JDCrow]

You can replace just the guts of the fridge with JC products, but still will have the same seals on doors if yours are getting old. We have the 2 way kit in ours from them. 
 

 

[Dr4Film]

If you search for the dimensions of the 1210 Ultraline and compare them to the dimensions of the NotSoCold 1200, you should have your answer.

[cbr046]

We bought a Dometic RM1350 when our Norcold 1200 bit the dust.  It was a perfect fit, except the flue was on the wrong side. 

- bob

[Bill C]

Thanks Bob. What did you do about the flue on the wrong side?

[cbr046]

1 hour ago, Bill C said:

Thanks Bob. What did you do about the flue on the wrong side?

Only a diverter (angled sheet of flashing).  It's not the best setup as sometimes I detect propane fumes into the coach while driving.  While parked no issues, and I run on propane except when parked at home. 

- bob

[Tom Cherry]

52 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Only a diverter (angled sheet of flashing).  It's not the best setup as sometimes I detect propane fumes into the coach while driving.  While parked no issues, and I run on propane except when parked at home. 

- bob

REMEMBER...  It is IMPERATIVE that if you install a Gas/Electric refrigerator that you use the thickest layer of fiberglass of high density material on each side and also the top.  Would NOT hurt to also stuff some UNDER the back of the Refrigerator.

This is TOTALLY different from a Residential Refer. There is the danger of Propane Fumes as well as Carbon Monoxide fumes that can be vented or sucked into the interior. The insulation also prevents the heat from the burner from infiltrating the interior, thus causing you to need MORE HVAC.

Use the HIGHEST R-Value insulation on the sides and use a couple of X-Beads of any good sealer/adhesive....plain old Latex caulk will do. You need to seal the insulation backing onto the side walls of the cabinet and then stuff insulation (assuming you can access the area) on the top to the front.  

Just passing this along as there has been some miscommunication and misunderstanding about HOW and WHEN to insulate.  You INSULATE a Gas/Electric and you have NO insulation around a Res Refer.  BUT, on a Res Refer, you MUST close off (insulate) the roof vent and/or the access vent covers.  Also any louvers in the frame (not the vent cover) must be sealed also.

[Bill C]

Good info Bob and Tom, thanks for sharing.

I plan to have a "professional" in stall it, hopefully they know this stuff as well? 🙂

 

Thanks

[Tom Cherry]

57 minutes ago, Bill C said:

Good info Bob and Tom, thanks for sharing.

I plan to have a "professional" in stall it, hopefully they know this stuff as well? 🙂

 

Thanks

LETS HOPE SO...  But, a LOT of professionals know way less than we do. In your case...  go over the insulation.  Make sure that you have MORE (higher density R value batting with a moisture barrier on the back) than you had before. Monaco was NOT overly generous.  That will save you cooling dollars as well as protect your family.

Good Luck...

[Bruce S]

 BUT, on a Res Refer, you MUST close off (insulate) the roof vent and/or the access vent covers.  Also any louvers in the frame (not the vent cover) must be sealed also.

 

As a retired stationary engineer I respectfully do not agree with your statement.  The heat from the refrigerator compartment must be released to the exterior or the unit will fail quickly and your food spoiled.  If you look at a unit in a stick home you will see a 2" gap all around the fridge to allow the compressed refrigerant's heat to dissipate.  All refrigerators are merely heat transports, the same as a HVAC unit.

 

[Dr4Film]

I would do whatever you recommend to your coach. We all have to make our own choices and decisions, then live with the consequences. However, what you are recommending is fundamentally incorrect for an RV.

I had a RV shop in Scott LA install the Samsung RF-197 in my previous Windsor back in 2012. They closed off the roof and side vents completely as they are sources where road dirt and dust can enter the fridge compartment. That fridge is still working to this day 12 years later.

The Samsung residential fridge receives its cooling air from the bottom of the fridge to cool the compressor and evaporate any water in the collection tray from defrosting. It then escapes around the top and sides, hence the reason for clearance in those areas.

Those two vents are needed for any RV Absorption type fridge but are NOT needed for any residential. In fact, if left open to ambient air you risk dirt and dust entering the fridge compartment which will be impossible to clean plus the fridge will stop functioning when the outside air temp drops too low. Another effect that will occur when the outside air temp in very high is your rooftop AC's will have to function more to offset the hot outside air entering the coach.

I guess we will have to respectfully agree to disagree.

[Tom Cherry]

On 3/17/2024 at 10:17 AM, Bruce S said:

 BUT, on a Res Refer, you MUST close off (insulate) the roof vent and/or the access vent covers.  Also any louvers in the frame (not the vent cover) must be sealed also.

 

As a retired stationary engineer I respectfully do not agree with your statement.  The heat from the refrigerator compartment must be released to the exterior or the unit will fail quickly and your food spoiled.  If you look at a unit in a stick home you will see a 2" gap all around the fridge to allow the compressed refrigerant's heat to dissipate.  All refrigerators are merely heat transports, the same as a HVAC unit.

 

Bruce,

Maybe we are saying the same thing....maybe NOT.  

The insulation around the Norcold and the Dometic is to prevent the heat from the burner as well as the CO2 potential from getting inside the MH's interior.

The issue with the NEWER, Energy Star appliances is that the Feds and the Manufacturers changed the "RULES".  USED to be that one could take any residential appliance and put it in an unheated garage or on the back porch or wherever.  NOT ANY MORE.  There is a much NARROWER tolerance.

When you install a Res Refer, you do NOT PUT ANY insulation on the side walls or in the cavity between the cabinet and the walls or the interior.  That is so you have adequate air circulation.

BUT...  In your home, you do NOT have two external vents to the outside behind the Refrigerator.

What happens is that when the external temperature drops below freezing, then the Samsungs, and I assume OTHERS, will quit cooling.  They just SHUT DOWN. I had mine installed and we were in the NC Mountains.  There was a sudden drop and frost and the NEW one quit.  Same deal the next night. I FINALLY figured that out.  I insulated the covers as well as the louvers in the vent frame...  I also had a Samsung (factory tech...not a "service" come out.  I explained what happened.  

His first response....  YOU FIXED IT.  The said that he and his buddies get calls every fall from folks that purchased a new res refer and put it on the back porch or in an unheated garage...or they moved out a older unit (that was Energy Star rated) and used it for a supplemental unit in a garage..  OPPS....NO WORK.

Lowes and other dealers in the NC Mountains sell "ALL WEATHER"  units. These are for folks that live in the mountains and have screened porches or unheated areas and have a freezer there. A normal residential freezer will not work.

The NEXT ITEM...  If you leave OPEN the vents....and remove the INTERIOR Barrier (the side insulation) from a Gas/Electric...then you are DUMPING all your cooled AC or heated air OUTSIDE.  Like leaving a window open.

When Monaco began to install residential units, they had a special BLANK panel (no louvers) that they used over the lower and upper vents.  Later on, I THINK that they insulated...maybe not.

BUT, I DO KNOW that properly insulating the vent covers as well as putting insulation in the roof vent, if you have one, is the way that most, if not all, of the professionals install them.

Hope that clears it up....

[Bruce S]

I would do whatever you recommend to your coach. We all have to make our own choices and decisions, then live with the consequences. However, what you are recommending is fundamentally incorrect for an RV.

 

Richard,

 

I'm sorry if my statement seems infamatory to you.  Not my intent.

 

Bruce,

Maybe we are saying the same thing....maybe NOT.  

The insulation around the Norcold and the Dometic is to prevent the heat from the burner as well as the CO2 potential from getting inside the MH's interior.

The issue with the NEWER, Energy Star appliances is that the Feds and the Manufacturers changed the "RULES".  USED to be that one could take any residential appliance and put it in an unheated garage or on the back porch or wherever.  NOT ANY MORE.  There is a much NARROWER tolerance.

 

Tom,

Thanks for your response.

Maybe I should have been clearer in my statement.  The waste heat removed from the fridge interior has to go somewhere.  If you seal up the old vents from the outside then you need to provide an alternate route for it which would then be the RV interior.  I have seen different model newer coaches where this was not readily apparent.  If this heat is released into an RV interior where the AC units are already maxed out due to the weather then I suppose the owners would have a small problem.  The fridge installers don't care about that.  Not their concern.  They probably also don't likely mention that the coils need to be occasionally cleaned, moreso if you travel with pets which many RVers do.  If the exterior lower vent is permanently sealed then I would imagine you would have to pull the fridge out in order to clean the unit which not too many people would relish including me.

I do understand the reasons for the existing ventilation of an ammonia system and I fully comprehend your point the new AC fridges have cold weather issues and that an all weather unit may not even fit.  Regardless, new major AC appliances are not supported for more than 10 years anymore before electronic components are no longer available for purchase (which makes the appliance a piece of scrap metal).  Add in that our RV's travel down some bumpy roads and you shorten their lifespan even more.  We still use our Norcold unit which I won't be changing until I deem it no longer safe or reliable but I do understand what many other's concerns are in regards to these issues.  The current heat removal thread is just another obstacle to consider.

 

Just my two cents worth.  Your mileage may vary...  🙂

 

 

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Bruce S said:

I would do whatever you recommend to your coach. We all have to make our own choices and decisions, then live with the consequences. However, what you are recommending is fundamentally incorrect for an RV.

 

Richard,

 

I'm sorry if my statement seems infamatory to you.  Not my intent.

 

Bruce,

Maybe we are saying the same thing....maybe NOT.  

The insulation around the Norcold and the Dometic is to prevent the heat from the burner as well as the CO2 potential from getting inside the MH's interior.

The issue with the NEWER, Energy Star appliances is that the Feds and the Manufacturers changed the "RULES".  USED to be that one could take any residential appliance and put it in an unheated garage or on the back porch or wherever.  NOT ANY MORE.  There is a much NARROWER tolerance.

 

Tom,

Thanks for your response.

Maybe I should have been clearer in my statement.  The waste heat removed from the fridge interior has to go somewhere.  If you seal up the old vents from the outside then you need to provide an alternate route for it which would then be the RV interior.  I have seen different model newer coaches where this was not readily apparent.  If this heat is released into an RV interior where the AC units are already maxed out due to the weather then I suppose the owners would have a small problem.  The fridge installers don't care about that.  Not their concern.  They probably also don't likely mention that the coils need to be occasionally cleaned, moreso if you travel with pets which many RVers do.  If the exterior lower vent is permanently sealed then I would imagine you would have to pull the fridge out in order to clean the unit which not too many people would relish including me.

I do understand the reasons for the existing ventilation of an ammonia system and I fully comprehend your point the new AC fridges have cold weather issues and that an all weather unit may not even fit.  Regardless, new major AC appliances are not supported for more than 10 years anymore before electronic components are no longer available for purchase (which makes the appliance a piece of scrap metal).  Add in that our RV's travel down some bumpy roads and you shorten their lifespan even more.  We still use our Norcold unit which I won't be changing until I deem it no longer safe or reliable but I do understand what many other's concerns are in regards to these issues.  The current heat removal thread is just another obstacle to consider.

 

Just my two cents worth.  Your mileage may vary...  🙂

 

 

 

 

Bruce, 

Your response is not correct based on how Monaco and the rest of the MH Industry installs Residential Refrigerators.  Nor is it correct based on the "Residential Refrigerator" concept of air circulation.  If you leave the vents open, then you will create a flue or siphon and all during the time that you condition your RV, it will exhaust the conditioned air.  The secondary impact, if you choose the commonly available Res Refers is that there is a HIGH probability that the unit will shut down and you will not know it until the temps rise. That is NOT a myth...but a fact....many have had the same issue and the Samsung tech confirmed that.

BUT, if you don't camp in colder weather....and don't mind exhausting your conditioned air....then, as you said....do what you want for your own MH.... BUT the correct procedure is to seal and insulate.

The concept of how to properly install a Res Refer is well known and has been posted here and in many sites.

Thus, from a Moderator's point of view, since we have the responsibility to post correct information as well as to "FOOTNOTE" or make sure that folks understand that a concept or a statement or a recommendation is false...

This note will be "FOR THE RECORD"

NOW, I did NOT take your remark as being inflamatory....just incorrect.

I would also advise members to understand that the proper way to do a Res Refer is to seal off the external vents with enough of the proper R-Value insulation so that it is equal to or exceeds the R-Value of the outside wall.

Your own comment is also correct....stated a bit differently,  If one decides to install or make any modification that is INCORRECT or is in error or can cause harm...then, since it is THEIR RV....they have that right.

But, from the Site's Charter, the Staff will always make sure that incorrect information is called out....not edited or removed.. In some cases, we have found things that were one thought to be "GOSPEL" were incorrect...and those myths or fallacies are also subject to providing the correct information.

Thanks for understanding and abiding by the rules and charter of the site.