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400 ISL Issue: The saga continues


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Karen and I are still working on getting the 2008 Diplomat with the 400ISL, Allison Transmission and Roadmaster chassis fuel system resolved.

Last mechanic crapped out on us and said he could not resolve it so we took the unit up to Five-Star Freightliner in Dothan, AL and the managed to resolve what turned out to be leaks in the fuel rail.

Everyone up there was great but it seems our passion for these older Monacos means nothing is that simple.

The previous mechanic replaced the ACM in an effort to resolve any issues that may have been caused by faulty program parameters.  He left the new one in as I understand they return the old one to recover core charges.

Unfortunately, he failed to source the ACM parameters and we are now looking to see if anyone may have the source addresses for the engine brake (exhaust brake, not Jake), all cruise control functions, service brake switch and the park brake and other functions that would be helpful.

Five-Star is also looking for the rear end ratio and although we tried to get any and all information available for our unit from Rev, they claimed they have no info at all. FIve-Star is convinced they should have it and will attempt to follow up with Rev tomorrow on this last issue.

With the Covid thing and our efforts to complete rebuilding from Hurricane Michael from 2018, we'd be fortunate just to get the coach running with the hope of getting back out on the road again for a weekend or twenty!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and God bless you all!

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I have no idea about the parameters but regarding the rear end, you might have a build sheet with its make, serial number and ratio. Otherwise there should be a placard stitch welded on the axle, typically passenger back side of it. If not either,  they should be able to figure it out the old way, by jacking up one side of the axle and counting driveshaft revolutions for a full wheel rotation. Old school that works because it is an open rear end. Divide by two. Of course, someone will have similar coach and might know. I know mine but that would not help you. Good luck!

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You can go to www.monacocoachdot com to download the brochure on your 2008 Windsor.  You will find out the the rear axle ratio is 4.30:1.    In 2008 Monaco used what was left on their shelf to build coaches before going bankrupt.    Your ISL 400-2 engine, a 2004 year engine, that has the common fuel rail.  Cummings has a recall on it to add a support bracket to the fuel rail long tube to keep it from vibrating thus developing leaks.   The 2005 ISL engine was a 425 hp engine.   I suggest that you go to a Cummins factory dealer to get the proper engine ECM software loaded that includes the proper engine exhaust brake software.   They can also install the recall fuel rail support bracket. 

fuelline.jpg

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The picture I posted is on my 2004 Windsor with a 2004 ISL400-2 engine.  In 2005, Cummins upgraded the engine to a 425 engine.  As I posted earlier, in 2008 Monaco was close to bankruptcy.

They used what they had on their shelf because their credit was bad.  Around 2004, Monaco purchased a huge number of Cummins engines.   All the owner has to do is pull the engine serial number and call Cummins.  They will tell him what year and model engine he has.  Simple.  I bet my penny he has a 2004 ISL 400 engine. 

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I do not know how long many members have been around.  For me, my first Monaco coach was a 1998 Diplomat, number 081749.  It was the 49th Dip Monaco made.  It was the first Dip Without a slide out and the first Dip with a booth dinette.  In 2004, we traded our Dip for a 2004 Windsor, our last coach.  We full timed in it  for 6 years.  I am a charter member of Bill D's Monacoer's group when Bill broke off from Al Poggi's MCOA  ( Monaco Coach Owners Association) group.  Not many of us around any more.

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5 hours ago, Chuck B said:

  In 2005, Cummins upgraded the engine to a 425 engine.     Simple.  I bet my penny he has a 2004 ISL 400 engine. 

Nope!

I own a 08' coach, with a 2007 built 400 hp ISL engine.

Here......https://www.cummins.com/engines/isl-epa-07?v=411&application=Motorhome & RV Engines

Scroll down a bit and you will see in 07' they produced a 370, 400, and 425hp ISL.

Edited by 96 EVO
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This maybe a good question for Frank. He is our resident ECM guy.

I remember my son did a software update on my 330 and then changed a few parameters.  I am not a software/ecm guy but I know Cummins does come out with software updates. I have an 05 and the updates contained 3 over 4 years. He flashed the latest update.

I think what I would do if it was my coach is have them reload the ECM, get the coach running and then head to a Cummins shop and then have the parameters set by a certified Cummin's mechanic at a Cummins facility.

I believe most Cummins facilities have a National database of ECM software uploads along with year - make and model info. It would not hurt to call Cummins in Ocala, FL and ask them. I have a friend who had a new ECM installed at Cummins in Tampa after her old one died. She was in and out in a day.

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Yep. That is the Frank I am talking about. He is the only one on this forum that I know who has the experience of setting paramaters and working with the software on a Cummins ECM.

Maybe I am missing something here but all the ECM change outs I have seen or heard of was a fairly simple process. I do not know if your shop is lost on this issue or are making it harder then it has to be. Or it could be the previous mechanic really screwed things up. Even then it should have been a simple upload of the software to get things right again.

People do not realize that the ECM is the brains of their coaches. Pac/Jake Brake operation, transmission shift points, engine fuel burn are just some of the critical parameters controlled by the ECM. This is why I have always said never let anyone screw with the parameters of an ECM unless they are experienced cummins techs. A tech who does not have the experience and starts screwing with parameters in an ECM can create headaches for you - improper shift points, higher fuel burn, etc.

I highly recommend  that once you get things set you schedule an appointment at a good Cummins facility and have them go through all the parameters and be sure nothing is messed up. There isn't a chance in hell I would drive out of there and call it good and think I am good to go. I would want confirmation by a highly skilled Cummins tech before I started sleeping good at night again. Just my humble opinion. 🙂 

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When I had an ECM issue there was no one that had the programming.  That includes Cummins Corporate, Monaco Rev Group Coburg,  Cummins Coburg etc..  Cummins Coburg originally did the programming for Monaco Oregon but they changed their computer system and erased all of those old files.  I was able to get the ECM ISO programming file from another coach exactly like mine.  Cummins has no idea of what your coach parameters are.  They can make the engine run but without salvaging data from the old ECM it becomes a $175/hour guessing game.  It is a bunch of pages of choices such as where it gets the speed input;" none-magnetic-digital pulses per mile- tachograph- data link tailshaft- datalink VSS- data link tachograph", number of transmission tail shaft gear teeth, top gear transmission ratio, gear down transmission ratio etc..  As you can see the list is extensive.

Everyone should get a copy of their  engine ECM ISO file and keep it with the coach the next time it is connected to a Cummins Insite computer, IMHO.  It is an easy upload to the ECM if you ever need it.

As an example of what the OP is needing, here is a copy of the engine parameters on my 2006 ISX 600 HP with electronic fan, VORAD with cruise control etc.

Engine Parameters April 22 2020.pdf

Edited by Hypoxia
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Normally when changing out an engine ECM, if the Cummins Insite software can connect to the old ECM the first thing the software does is to automatically download and store the ECM parameters onto the laptop computer. 

This file is used to upload to a new ECM.  The problem comes in when the old ECM is dead or an inexperienced tech "looses" the original work order where the parameter list is stored or just doesn't know how to reflash a new ECM with the original electronic parameter set.  If that happens then one needs to get a file from another coach with the same drive train or manually enter parameters such as tire size, rear axle gear ratios and option for engine braking, cruise control etc. 

It's best to keep a copy or your ECM file with you.  The next time a shop uses Cummins Insite software they can generate a print file for you or better yet, download the file to a thumb drive that can be used by the Insite software to reflash a new ECM if ever needed.

On my 2008 ISL the complete engine ECM file showing full engine use history, DPF Regen history, drive history, abuse history and parameter list is over 50 pages long.  This is a great report to review if you were to ever buy a used coach.  It gives a huge about of engine history that most folks wouldn't know existed.  It's basically a black box on engine use/abuse history.

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When I bought my coach back in 2008 the first thing I did was take to the Knoxville Cummins shop for a service and complete inspection, I asked him to check for codes etc.  I knew the manager and he took care of me, he checked for codes and also provided me with ECM file both printed and downloaded it to a CD.  I carry it with me, cheap insurance.  

The coach was a repo I stumbled on down in Florida.  It came with the packet of manuals but no maintenance records.  When I inspected it I couldn't find anything wrong but wanted a complete service and inspection to have a starting point.  When Cummins was done the shop manager went over the information and told me the rig was "Cherry" and I got a heck of a deal. 

So if you have to take your rig in for any type of service at a Cummins shop it's worth getting the to download the info, may cost a little money but it's well worth it.

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On 7/18/2020 at 5:00 PM, Frank McElroy said:

Normally when changing out an engine ECM, if the Cummins Insite software can connect to the old ECM the first thing the software does is to automatically download and store the ECM parameters onto the laptop computer. 

This file is used to upload to a new ECM.  The problem comes in when the old ECM is dead or an inexperienced tech "looses" the original work order where the parameter list is stored or just doesn't know how to reflash a new ECM with the original electronic parameter set.  If that happens then one needs to get a file from another coach with the same drive train or manually enter parameters such as tire size, rear axle gear ratios and option for engine braking, cruise control etc. 

It's best to keep a copy or your ECM file with you.  The next time a shop uses Cummins Insite software they can generate a print file for you or better yet, download the file to a thumb drive that can be used by the Insite software to reflash a new ECM if ever needed.

On my 2008 ISL the complete engine ECM file showing full engine use history, DPF Regen history, drive history, abuse history and parameter list is over 50 pages long.  This is a great report to review if you were to ever buy a used coach.  It gives a huge about of engine history that most folks wouldn't know existed.  It's basically a black box on engine use/abuse history.

Thank you Frank.

Apparently my previous mechanic did all he could to make life as difficult as he possible could and made no effort to update the ECM before sending the old one back to collect the core charge.

We'll definitely make it a point to collect and retain the correct info when FiveStar gets it all together.

They are looking to see if they can get their hands on an identical unit to scarf up the parameters.

Hope all is well and thanks.

On 7/18/2020 at 7:09 PM, jacwjames said:

When I bought my coach back in 2008 the first thing I did was take to the Knoxville Cummins shop for a service and complete inspection, I asked him to check for codes etc.  I knew the manager and he took care of me, he checked for codes and also provided me with ECM file both printed and downloaded it to a CD.  I carry it with me, cheap insurance.  

The coach was a repo I stumbled on down in Florida.  It came with the packet of manuals but no maintenance records.  When I inspected it I couldn't find anything wrong but wanted a complete service and inspection to have a starting point.  When Cummins was done the shop manager went over the information and told me the rig was "Cherry" and I got a heck of a deal. 

So if you have to take your rig in for any type of service at a Cummins shop it's worth getting the to download the info, may cost a little money but it's well worth it.

Thanks.

Had we only known!

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If your previous mechanic used Insite software to connect to the old ecm and it connected, ask him for an electronic work order file.  This file has your parameters and he can read them without being connected to the ECM.  A new file is automatically created every time an ecm is connected to Insite.  If the mechanic didn't use insite or routinely deletes work orders well your out of luck.

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18 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

If your previous mechanic used Insite software to connect to the old ecm and it connected, ask him for an electronic work order file.  This file has your parameters and he can read them without being connected to the ECM.  A new file is automatically created every time an ecm is connected to Insite.  If the mechanic didn't use insite or routinely deletes work orders well your out of luck.

Hi Frank:

I called him yesterday to verify the change out and all he could do was cry about having put in the new ECM at his expense.

He did not bother to download the software from the old unit so we're in the "out of lick" category as he sent it back to collect the core charge.

I try to be very Christian about his performance.....

Five-Star is confident they can get it from a similar unit and with 11 locations, it may not be too difficult.

Thank you.

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