Stairwell step cover removal & gear/motor alignment

[amphi_sc]

I've looked at some of the previous threads but those look like they are driven by a worm gear and follower. Mine looks more like a window regulator and arm.

Problem 1: about 1 out of 5 times the gear/motor seem to chatter slipping teeth.  I'm thinking it might be a worn bushing or loose bolt messing with the gear alignment.

Problem 2: How to gain access to really see what is happening? Did the factory build the coach around this mechanism?

I see 3 or 4 small screws on each side that seem like they could go into the floor but there is no way to reach the back ones.  It also looks too wide for the door opening and unsure if there is slack in the electrical wire way at the back 

Pictures are with a thousand words so see what I'm looking at and give me ideas. You can see in the dust pattern how the gear & arm rotate but the motor is too far back to observe the linkage and gear meshing. 

Thanks!

[Martinvz]

The chattering may be broken teeth on the gear. I had the same issue on my steps and could not find a similar gear plate, resulting in replacing the complete step set.

I am guessing that the motor is fine.

[amphi_sc]

2 minutes ago, Martinvz said:

The chattering may be broken teeth on the gear. I had the same issue on my steps and could not find a similar gear plate, resulting in replacing the complete step set.

I am guessing that the motor is fine.

I had that problem too with the outside "Coach Step", but Lippert had taken over Coach Step and had a gear plate that was even somewhat reasonable in price.  If I had caught it earlier I might have been able to keep the gear plate from getting chewed up.  I had to add an additional flat washer to align the gear plate and off-the-shelf power window motor, and replaced all the worn out bushings in the arms.  But at least with the outside steps there was access.  With this stairwell cover it isn't obvious to me how to get access back to the mechanics.  And it isn't obvious to me how to remove this from under the floor if I had to completely replace it.  I was hoping to catch the problem before it got as far as chewing up the gear too badly.

[Ivan K]

I have an air operated cover and the only time I could take it out was when I had the door frame removed for a different reason. Some time ago I noticed when the generator was all the way out, there could be an access from below but have not needed to confirm that. It just looked like there could have been an access panel underneath an undercoating, not sure.

[jacwjames]

I have an air operated mechanism and had it out when I redid my stepwell flooring.  On mine the front portion (toe kick) came off and I was able to remove the screws to get the cover out, it barely fit. 

On mine there is an access door underneath that is riveted in place, never had it out, but I believe that would give me access to get to the air lines attached to the small cylinder.  I did not remove the cylinder, just removed the screws that fastened the end of the cylinder to the front portion (toe kick).

In your case look at removed the front portion and see if you can get to the mechanism and also look underneath to see if there are bolts/nuts accessible from below.

[Bar SR Ranch]

On my 2009 Dynasty has the same window regulator looking mechanism for the step cover.

I believe there are 4 or 6 bolts that you can access from underneath that hold the whole thing in place, on the top are welded in nutserts.

I have never had mine out but looks like that is how it is held in and not sure you have room to get it out please keep us updated.

Mine seems to come out against the door before raising and then leaves a gap at the floor and step cover, I would like to see some more picture to see if I am missing some kind of stop or something or if this is just how Monaco built them.

The picture circled in red is the nutsert on the top plate.

[amphi_sc]

Well Steve, it was indeed obvious once I took a closer look and also slid the generator out and looked up.  When I was initially looking I didn't look close enough and thought those were screws into the floor and couldn't reach the rear ones.  But as bolts coming up from the bottom that won't be a problem.  I feel a little embarrassed I didn't look closer before posting.  After I get the air bags done this is the next project this month.  Thanks.

I forgot to take a video of the motion for you to compare to yours.  I'll try to remember that when I go back to continue with the airbags.

[Bar SR Ranch]

Glad that helped.

Funny that you posted this as I was just about to post asking for some pictures or video about the way the step cover worked mine just doesn't seem to be correct hitting the door frame before raising. 

Edited April 13 by Bar SR Ranch

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

Are we talking step cover or step? Window actuator sounds like step. 

[Bar SR Ranch]

Step Cover.

Not sure when Monaco made this change but there is very little to no information out there that I could find on this style, just like the original post indicated.

I had searched trying to find some information a couple months ago on this style step cover mechanism and found nothing also.  

Not the best system in my opinion but then again, if there isn't any information out there maybe they don't fail. 

  

[Tom Cherry]

9 minutes ago, Bar SR Ranch said:

Step Cover.

Not sure when Monaco made this change but there is very little to no information out there that I could find on this style, just like the original post indicated.

I had searched trying to find some information a couple months ago on this style step cover mechanism and found nothing also.  

Not the best system in my opinion but then again, if there isn't any information out there maybe they don't fail. 

  

THREE systems used... FOURTH in Design

The old X link....that was a Single motor and drive and a LONG Threaded Lead Screw.

Air - Most of the later Dynasties and above had them.  They are identifiable by the "cleats" or support stops on each side so that when the cover was extended....then the front or outer edges on each corner rested or was supported.

THEN...the hybrid.. Looks like the Older Scissors or X-Link with the one main reversing motor....  BUT, it used a "Window Regulator" motor.  Sounds like yours.

OK....to make this totally confusing...the later 2009  Camelots were SUPPOSED to have TWO Window Regulators.  Now DID THEY?  Don;t know.  Monaco went belly up.  Did the engineers that came back and joined Navistar keep working on that design or was it ever released.  It show on ALL 2009 Camelot prints....but all I have seen (Scepters included) was the OLDER style... Monaco typically updated the electrical prints a year BEFORE the stuff was installed.  LOL...

That's what I know....or think I do...

[amphi_sc]

For Steve R:

I took some more still photos and videos of mine in operation.

In the first two stills you can see the support (identical on either side) by the door and the hook/bar mechanism that grabs the cover as it slides out at the extreme and lifts it up into place at floor level.

The next video is of the top side with the cover extending and mostly rising up to floor level before the motor/gear teeth start to slip.  You may also notice the chair side lifts mostly up while the dash side doesn't quite and you can observe the tilt.

Due to size restrictions I'll post video from the underside in another follow-on post

Continuing with my post.  In this video you can watch the how the hook engages the bar and caused the mechanism to lift as the motor continues to push.  

I think a good design should have had a limit switch.  I do recall over the years asking my DW to creep up on the full out extreme as I would hear the teeth slip once in a while.  Over the years I think this just aggravated the situation.

 

Edited April 13 by amphi_sc

[amphi_sc]

Looks like the web site is merging some of my posts into one!  Great!

This video show the motor slipping before lifting the floor up, and then it manages to lift.

 

Well it merged some but not all into one post. 

Here's a final one where I placed a loose nut just to raise the back edge up a little.  Could be the mechanism has worn and gotten sloppy and the nut "band-aid" gets the initial angle a little better to help the lift get started.  Obviously I can't leave a loose nut there...I was just brainstorming... You can even see that loose nut vibrate and bounce to a different place at the very end as the cover lifts into place.  That nut height has plenty of clearance as it retracts.  Maybe I could jury rig an adjustable bolt on the location to raise that back side just a little.  However I still think the gear teeth have worn from no limit switch causing the motor to continue trying to push at the full upright position.  Only by pulling it out for bench testing can I better analyze the situation.

That's all for now.

Edited April 13 by amphi_sc

[Bar SR Ranch]

Thanks Al

The pictures and video really helped. 

I think I need to install some stops some place somehow for the cover to hit sooner my stair well is a little different, my step cover hits the door on the handle side and is allowing the cover to come out too far and puts pressure on the door, not good.

Mine raises on the door side fine but this type of system has to have pressure and or stop for the backside interior side to raise. 

It looks like this is the way mine came from the factory and is a design flaw.

I will update if I come up with a solution or find something is missing in mine.

 

Edited April 13 by Bar SR Ranch

[amphi_sc]

Steve, that hook and cross rod right behind the spring in my second photo is what basically stops the forward motion toward the door and causes the cover to lift.  That hook catches the rod which then causes the arms to pivot up.

[Bar SR Ranch]

Ok mystery solved on my step cover.

The rod is missing when I just went and looked, I had been wondering what this u-shaped bracket was laying in the basement storage compartment now I know.

It looks like it broke, and a previous owner had welded it and never reinstalled it.

Now I need to locate one more shoulder bolt there was one with the rod so at least I have a sample and can machine one if I can't find one.

Thank you so much for the information this could have taken me sometime to figure out on my own. 

[amphi_sc]

Steve, If/when you end up pulling the entire assembly out by removing those 6 bolts (accessible when the genny is slid out), let me know any tips and take some pictures of the motor/gear interface. And how the slack in the wiring works to slide the assembly out....

I can't imagine how it could have broken to require welding that rod.

Thanks,

Al

[Bar SR Ranch]

Clarification: I had the u-shaped bracket/rod laying the wrong way in the picture above and the shoulder bolt I mentioned was incorrect there is no shoulder bolts that holds the u-shaped bracket/rod in place it was lying beside the u-shaped bracket/rod, so I was assuming it went with u-shaped bracket/rod it is just regular bolts with nylocks, they were also lying with the u-shaped bracket/rod.

I shouldn't have to remove the step cover to reinstall the rod hopefully but if I do, I will document the process.

The repair that a previous owner did was where the rod went through the flat bar. Yes, I will be redoing this repair/weld not even close to my standards.

I should have looked at the original post pictures closer and I would have seen all of this was missing on mine, I guess this is how we learn. 

Following other people's repairs or half repairs is always fun, seems I have been doing it my whole life and this coach is defiantly no exception.

 

 

Edited April 14 by Bar SR Ranch