Check Trans Light - Won’t shift out of nuetral

[jlynn37064]

2006 Beaver PT with 6 speed Allison. Only 33,000 miles. My speedometer is racing up and down immediately after I start the engine.  The check trans light is on.  I can move my rig. Motorhome has been stored under cover since Thanksgiving.  The chassis batteries were dead. I charged them and then this issue with check trans occurred. I’ve unplugged the trans sensors and reconnected them. The check trans light went out but came back on. At no time would the transmission go into gear. The speedometer is racing  and the  odometer is racking up 10ths of a mile every few seconds.  I disconnected the old batteries for 36 hours and then installed new batteries.  This did not correct the issue. Please offer suggestions. Thanks 

 

 

[DavidL]

You will need to get the diagnostic codes from the transmission / engine to figure out what next to do.

The Allison trans there are buttons to push and the shift console will blink with a code you can look up.

If there is an engine issue, you will need a compatible Scan tool hardware and software to get the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs)

 

Start there.  You can google how to do the above.

Edited June 1 by DavidL

[Dr4Film]

With the ignition on, to get the Allison into Diagnostic mode you push the up and down arrows TWICE. The first code should be displayed. To get to any additional codes you push the mode button each time to get to any those codes.

It is possible that a bad ground wire in your dash is causing the gauge problems.

Edited June 1 by Dr4Film

[jlynn37064]

Thank you both. I was able to get two codes. P0722 and P0880.  I’ve goggled both of these.  I’d like to check to connections to the TCM. Any suggestions as to where it would be located? Is on on the transmission? 

I cleared the codes and only P0722 returned 

Edited June 1 by jlynn37064

[Tom Cherry]

6 minutes ago, jlynn37064 said:

Thank you both. I was able to get two codes. P0720 and P0880.  I’ve goggled both of these.  I’d like to check to connections to the TCM. Any suggestions as to where it would be located? Is on on the transmission? 

WITH MONACO??.  Have you looked in the Chassis Electrical Section of your manual.  Many have the FRB layout and “mark” the TCM.  It WILL BE UPFRONT.  90% on that. If is often in the FRB or maybe one bay back…in the ceiling …yes..either in or above the ceiling panel.  I just looked at a 2014 Dynasty manual.  Go to the chassis electrical….that gives you a visual….they are close to the same.

You can google Allison MH3000/4000 TCM image.  That’s one way to figure out what you are looking for…looks like

BTW….Call ALLISON TECH SUPPORT….they are good and user friendly…

[jlynn37064]

Thanks Tom

[Benjamin]

772 is output speed sensor, which confirms the obvious at this point.  And 880 is TCM input that seems like it could be the speed sensor, or the power supply voltage low, which you obviously had also, and since this code didn't return I'd ignore it for now.  Since you unplugged the sensors, you're not afraid to get dirty, remove the output sensor and clean it.  If that fails, see if the output is the same as the input speed sensor and swap them.  Also, check the wiring from the output sensor to the main harness for chaffing, cracks, rodent damage, etc. 

[Dr4Film]

Here are two Allison Fault Code Lists that I had in my files.

Allison Trans Codes.pdf Allison Transmission 3000,4000 series fault code list updated.pdf

[timaz996]

Thanks for posting those Richard.

[jlynn37064]

Benjamin, thanks for the suggestion of looking at the input sensor.  It is the same sensor. I swapped them but still receiving the same code. The Check Trans light goes out when I unplugged and reconnect the output sensor.  I can start the engine and select DRIVE and nothing happens. When I select REVERSE the check trans light comes on.  I removed the wiring loom and inspected the wires. I found no visible issues. Someone suggested that the blue ground wire coming off one of the sensors can be an issue.  Are you familiar with this wire? 

[Benjamin]

I am not familiar with that blue wire.  The only thing I'd have left to check are transmission instrument's troubleshooting directions on their website, which may not apply to your 2006, but worth a check.  And an allison manual which I've found online for the older model allison, the manual has detailed directions for diagnosing based on symptoms, and also wire resistance checks.  There is a ton of info on forums, just hard to find the right question. 

Since it's been a while since it ran, I'd find the transmission "brain" and check it for rodent damage, condensation, loose connections, whatever.  Maybe even warm it up with a hair dryer?

Edited June 2 by Benjamin

[jlynn37064]

Thanks Benjamin

 

[Dr4Film]

If you have thoroughly cleaned the connector for the Output Speed Sensor than I would replace it.

[jlynn37064]

I found this on another website. It’s interesting that there are specifics on how many twist jn the sensor wire. https://dtctruck.com/product/allison-3000-4000-gen-4-fault-code-p0722-output-speed-sensor-circuit-no-signal/

[Benjamin]

Very interesting.  Lots of possible causes, but not that many that would happen in storage.  You're getting this code standing still immediately on start up, and there's only one thing that sets this code (800RPM change in 2 seconds) so the TCM is obviously reading AC frequency, and it's not from the stationary signal wheel, probably not from the sensor (you tried both), it could be an internal TCM failure that's above my pay grade, or any wiring interference would have some AC source.  The main AC source on a vehicle (assuming you've unplugged and turned off inverter and generator) is the alternator.  You mentioned the batteries were dead, could be coincidence or could be leaky diodes that would also cause AC to be present in the DC.  I'd measure the AC at the alternator B+ output, or even disconnect the small wires from the back of the alt, so it's not charging, depending on model.  Not likely, but I don't know what else to try. 

[jlynn37064]

I did find the transmission control module.  It was in the ceiling of the second pass through bay.  There is an access panel but it only gave access to the leveling system. I had to remove the ceiling and was able to access the TCM.  I did unplug and look for issues but found nothing.   I’ve read post about a main ground cable but I didn’t see on is this bay.  Is there a shop that will test and possibly rebuild my TCM? 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, jlynn37064 said:

I did find the transmission control module.  It was in the ceiling of the second pass through bay.  There is an access panel but it only gave access to the leveling system. I had to remove the ceiling and was able to access the TCM.  I did unplug and look for issues but found nothing.   I’ve read post about a main ground cable but I didn’t see on is this bay.  Is there a shop that will test and possibly rebuild my TCM? 

Here’s where it get’s tricky.  There is no record, unless printed (supposedly) on a label or on the cover of the TCM as to the “programming” parameters.  The shift points were determined (sometimes more of the “seat of the pants”) or “SET my Monaco.  Each year, Allison, Monaco and the Engine supplier….their “tech reps” would review the shift points for PERFORMANCE and ECONMY modes.  Usually just a carryover, unless Monaco changed the rear differential ratio.

NO RECORDS of this, by model exist.  Allison says…. WE APPROVED…but Monaco never supplied us with them. Monaco ordered the TCM’s and sent them to a local (presumably Allison) shop to be programmed.  I TRIED both Allison and Monaco….BRICK WALL…response….label or marked on the TCM…not in our data base.

SO….at this point….your best approach may be to get an Allison certified shop involved.  They might fix the issue.  You do NOT want someone “messing” around or doing unimaginable “things” to the TCM.  If a TCM fails, the best hope….a dealer can read the parameters and reprogram….otherwise it is PURE GUESS.  Now, if you know, exactly the level, medium acceleration shift point is for every upshift and downshift….then you could tell the tech.  BUT the data was Monaco supplied was never published.

For example… the normal Up SHIFT for my tranny…either performance or economy is around 62 MPH…5 to 6.  BUT…the downshift point in performance is about the same.  It also upshifts around that in economy.  But, in economy, it will drop as low as 56 MPH for the downshift.  I know that from a LOT of observations and testing.

I have NO IDEA how that is “programmed” inside the TCM.

IF your TCM is toast….then you need to find a willing partner with the same engine, year, model, and REAR END ratio.  They will have to go to an Allison shop for a program scan and download.  You pay for that.  They  then have the critical data…free…

 

.  

[jacwjames]

In 2013 my wife was getting ready to head out on a trip.  I took the coach and filled it up and parked it in front of the house on the street so I could hook up the toad.  After the toad was hooked up I was going to check the lights/brakes.  Went to start the rig and nothing,  the rig won't start and the transmission display had snake eyes on it.  For two days I checked everything I could check and finally called the Allision shop ~30 miles away and asked if they could send a tech out>>nope, nada, not a chance.  They said they were short handed and I'd have to have the rig towed to their shop.

So arranged for a tow, the truck was coming into the subdivision while I was driving out headed to airport/Spain.  Wife took over and made sure the coach got towed to the shop.  Shop diagnosed a bad TCM, they didn't have one but one of their other shops did, ~100 miles away.  To expedite the process my wife went and got the TCM and delivered it to the shop where the coach was at.  They had to copy the programming from the old TCM but got the rig going in short order.  Cost $3600.

I kept the old TCM just because and last year decided to look at the guts.  Obvious there was a problem, large burnt/melted spot on the circuit board.  I guess I could have looked inside, probably would have saved a couple days of me looking for the problem.  It was pretty obvious. 

 

Wife barely made it to the dog show in NY Finger Lakes area, pulled into the parking lot and handed her dog to a handler who volunteered to take it into the ring.  Can't remember if it won or not. 

Edited June 30 by jacwjames

[jlynn37064]

I just removed the TCM. It was hot, about 120 degrees. I am now thinking it has a short of some kind.  I’m going to check around for a replacement. 

[jlynn37064]

On 6/30/2024 at 12:53 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Here’s where it get’s tricky.  There is no record, unless printed (supposedly) on a label or on the cover of the TCM as to the “programming” parameters.  The shift points were determined (sometimes more of the “seat of the pants”) or “SET my Monaco.  Each year, Allison, Monaco and the Engine supplier….their “tech reps” would review the shift points for PERFORMANCE and ECONMY modes.  Usually just a carryover, unless Monaco changed the rear differential ratio.

NO RECORDS of this, by model exist.  Allison says…. WE APPROVED…but Monaco never supplied us with them. Monaco ordered the TCM’s and sent them to a local (presumably Allison) shop to be programmed.  I TRIED both Allison and Monaco….BRICK WALL…response….label or marked on the TCM…not in our data base.

SO….at this point….your best approach may be to get an Allison certified shop involved.  They might fix the issue.  You do NOT want someone “messing” around or doing unimaginable “things” to the TCM.  If a TCM fails, the best hope….a dealer can read the parameters and reprogram….otherwise it is PURE GUESS.  Now, if you know, exactly the level, medium acceleration shift point is for every upshift and downshift….then you could tell the tech.  BUT the data was Monaco supplied was never published.

For example… the normal Up SHIFT for my tranny…either performance or economy is around 62 MPH…5 to 6.  BUT…the downshift point in performance is about the same.  It also upshifts around that in economy.  But, in economy, it will drop as low as 56 MPH for the downshift.  I know that from a LOT of observations and testing.

I have NO IDEA how that is “programmed” inside the TCM.

IF your TCM is toast….then you need to find a willing partner with the same engine, year, model, and REAR END ratio.  They will have to go to an Allison shop for a program scan and download.  You pay for that.  They  then have the critical data…free…

 

.  

I was able to buy a TCM from a salvage yard.  The trans now shifts but there is a code U0115 for communication with ECM.  Someone suggested that the TCM internal battery needs to charge. Any thoughts? 

[Benjamin]

Does it drive? shift's feel somewhat normal? they might improve as the controller adapts.  It could be an old code that just needs time to clear if everything is working. 

[jlynn37064]

7 minutes ago, Benjamin said:

Does it drive? shift's feel somewhat normal? they might improve as the controller adapts.  It could be an old code that just needs time to clear if everything is working. 

I haven’t taken it out on the road because I have a fear of being stranded. I did clear the codes using the shifter panel it kept coming back

[Dr4Film]

Call your local Allison Transmission shop and talk with a certified Allison Tech support person. Explain what you have done and the code you are getting.

They helped me a lot when I had to call them in the Phoenix area when I had a code for Output Speed Sensor Failure while bringing our 06 Dynasty home to Florida from Salt Lake City.

Edited July 13 by Dr4Film

[Tom Cherry]

NOPE….no INTERNAL. Battery.  The TMC has a chip, you can reflash it…as in changing the parameters.  Whatever is set the. Is locked in….like a ROM.  Pull power….nothing is erased.  It also has a POWER ON memory section.  It DOES learn your driving habits….good and bad… we”ve had members that babied it so much it got so bad, they couldn’t hardly accelerate.  TECH cleared the codes….checked it out and drove it.

Said, BTW….disconnect the chassis for a while (not defined’ ...definitely overnight will erase. That kills the “I Learned THIS” section.  No need to pay me.

Since it has been powered down…all learned functions were erased.  But the Shift Points were NOT.

Unless it came from the same exact MONACO model and year, then the shift points are probably (maybe?) wrong.  Supposedly they were on a label on the OEM TCM. Monaco had a database.  Cummins &  Allison approved.  The points are based on differential gearing, specific torque curve of that year’s engine….the max HP RPM.  A 2009 Dynasty in my Camelot would be more fuel effiecient….but crappy to drive.  The 5-6 for an ISL in a Dynasty with it”s lower ratio rear end shifts around 57 MPH.  My higher ratio differential raises this to 62.  The lower points are changed.  Also there are specific “downshift” parameters….ewch set for the rear end and weight of the vehicle….and the mode.  In economy, my downshift from 6-5 is 57 MPH.  Thus, I stay in 6 longer.  In Performance….it is 62 or maybe 60.  It downshifts QUICKER….not a fuel efficient.

You need to get a member with the same MY and Model to have an Allison shop connect their “plug” to the TCM….record all the parameters as well as copy the program onto a CD or Flash drive.  Pay for that.  Then get an Allison shop to clear your codes….reflash or manually load the parameters….only way to get it back to OEM…if this came from another brand or a higher HP engine….possibly bad….not fatal. But needs to be reset to OEM…

OR the tech needs to know EXACTLY how to fine tune it.  He needs the specs on the tire size and rear end and torque and HP max for engine….

That’s the skinny….GOOD LUCK!

[jlynn37064]

1 hour ago, Dr4Film said:

Call your local Allison Transmission shop and talk with a certified Allison Tech support person. Explain what you have done and the code you are getting.

They helped me a lot when I had to call them in the Phoenix area when I had a code for Output Speed Sensor Failure while bring our 06 Dynasty home to Florida from Salt Lake City.

Will do. Thanks

49 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

NOPE….no INTERNAL. Battery.  The TMC has a chip, you can reflash it…as in changing the parameters.  Whatever is set the. Is locked in….like a ROM.  Pull power….nothing is erased.  It also has a POWER ON memory section.  It DOES learn your driving habits….good and bad… we”ve had members that babied it so much it got so bad, they couldn’t hardly accelerate.  TECH cleared the codes….checked it out and drove it.

Said, BTW….disconnect the chassis for a while (not defined’ ...definitely overnight will erase. That kills the “I Learned THIS” section.  No need to pay me.

Since it has been powered down…all learned functions were erased.  But the Shift Points were NOT.

Unless it came from the same exact MONACO model and year, then the shift points are probably (maybe?) wrong.  Supposedly they were on a label on the OEM TCM. Monaco had a database.  Cummins &  Allison approved.  The points are based on differential gearing, specific torque curve of that year’s engine….the max HP RPM.  A 2009 Dynasty in my Camelot would be more fuel effiecient….but crappy to drive.  The 5-6 for an ISL in a Dynasty with it”s lower ratio rear end shifts around 57 MPH.  My higher ratio differential raises this to 62.  The lower points are changed.  Also there are specific “downshift” parameters….ewch set for the rear end and weight of the vehicle….and the mode.  In economy, my downshift from 6-5 is 57 MPH.  Thus, I stay in 6 longer.  In Performance….it is 62 or maybe 60.  It downshifts QUICKER….not a fuel efficient.

You need to get a member with the same MY and Model to have an Allison shop connect their “plug” to the TCM….record all the parameters as well as copy the program onto a CD or Flash drive.  Pay for that.  Then get an Allison shop to clear your codes….reflash or manually load the parameters….only way to get it back to OEM…if this came from another brand or a higher HP engine….possibly bad….not fatal. But needs to be reset to OEM…

OR the tech needs to know EXACTLY how to fine tune it.  He needs the specs on the tire size and rear end and torque and HP max for engine….

That’s the skinny….GOOD LUCK!

Thanks Tom, I did get brave enough to drive it. As I was coming out for the storage lot I noticed I didn’t have a lot of power. I looked and I was in 5th gear.  I couldn’t change gears. I drove it a bit hoping it would start to behave but it didn’t. I had to reset the codes using the shift pad to get it to come out of gear. I managed to turn around and get back to the lot. I had to reset the codes to get it into reverse so I could park it. It would go into first and seemed to stay there as long as I didn’t push the pedal.  have three codes. P2723,P0732, U0115.  One of my early issues was the speedometer jumping around. The new/used TCM has corrected that issue.