MSHappyCampers Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 Am I correct that the Hamsar DRL module could not cause my problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) I had my Hamsar DRL relay fail a number of years back which caused my headlights to come on and stay on. Plus the relay was so hot to the touch I had to use pliers to remove it. I pulled it out then researched where to purchase another one and it was going to cost $125 !!! Nope! Instead I have been using a set of LED's that I installed in place of the Hella Fog Lamps which come on as soon as I hit the ignition key. Those are now my DRL's. I doubt that the Hamsar relay is a cause to your problem but easy to test. Just pull out the relay from the socket and test your headlights. Edited January 2, 2020 by Dr4Film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 Does anybody know where the Headlight Pigtail, #7 on the wiring diagram, is located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Joe, This could be a possiblity as both the High & Low beams are influenced by the DRL. I had posted the Windsor Chassis Wiring diagram and if you open it up, hit CTRL5 (this brings everything to focus) and then to a search for DRL it will show you where this is listed and you can follow the circuit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Dr4Film said: I had my Hamsar DRL relay fail a number of years back which caused my headlights to come on and stay on. Plus the relay was so hot to the touch I had to use pliers to remove it. I pulled it out then researched where to purchase another one and it was going to cost $125 !!! Nope! Instead I have been using a set of LED's that I installed in place of the Hella Fog Lamps which come on as soon as I hit the ignition key. Those are now my DRL's. I doubt it but It may be possible but easy to test. Just pull out the relay from the socket and test your headlights. It's raining now so can't go out. Is the DRL relay in the front electrical compartment? 1 minute ago, jacwjames said: Joe, This could be a possiblity as both the High & Low beams are influenced by the DRL. I had posted the Windsor Chassis Wiring diagram and if you open it up, hit CTRL5 (this brings everything to focus) and then to a search for DRL it will show you where this is listed and you can follow the circuit. I see it on the drawing. Don't think it could cut off the headlights, but wanted other opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 minute ago, jminyard1@gmail.com said: It's raining now so can't go out. Is the DRL relay in the front electrical compartment? Yes, it the FRB (aka Front Run Bay). It should have white wires marked with DRL on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Dr4Film said: Yes, it the FRB (aka Front Run Bay). It should have white wires marked with DRL on it. what about the headlight pigtail shown on the drawing? Do you know where it is located? All those wires are bundled and secured with cable ties so it's impossible to trace anything without cutting all the cable ties! I guess that it's probably not that since neither low or high beams work? Richard, are you still blocked from IRV2? Edited January 2, 2020 by jminyard1@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Joe, it most likely comes from Monaco #2 where the 25 amp fuse for the headlights is located. The only way to locate it is to unwrap the spilt-loom and look for headlight identification possibly on the wire. Monaco used a lot of WHITE wires exactly for that purpose of identification. I don't see any relay associated with the headlights only the fuse. I like a previous posters suggestion of cleaning the connectors, pins and sockets real good with contact cleaner then place a small amount of electrical contact grease on the connector before sealing it back together. Yes, my Dr4Film handle is blocked from iRV2.com for life. I still go there occasionally to read some stuff but I no longer post. I could have re-upped with a different handle and email but the moderators would have zeroed in on me eventually, that I am sure, due to being TOO outspoken for them. There is life after iRV2! I mainly stick to this very friendly group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 53 minutes ago, Dr4Film said: Joe, it most likely comes from Monaco #2 where the 25 amp fuse for the headlights is located. The only way to locate it is to unwrap the spilt-loom and look for headlight identification possibly on the wire. Monaco used a lot of WHITE wires exactly for that purpose of identification. I don't see any relay associated with the headlights only the fuse. I like a previous posters suggestion of cleaning the connectors, pins and sockets real good with contact cleaner then place a small amount of electrical contact grease on the connector before sealing it back together. Yes, my Dr4Film handle is blocked from iRV2.com for life. I still go there occasionally to read some stuff but I no longer post. I could have re-upped with a different handle and email but the moderators would have zeroed in on me eventually, that I am sure, due to being TOO outspoken for them. There is life after iRV2! I mainly stick to this very friendly group. It's been pouring rain here for the last two days. It's supposed to clear off Friday and Saturday. I plan to check all those connections on the Monaco 1 & 2 boxes. Looking at the drawings for the SmartWheel, there's a relay in the control that the headlight circuit feeds through so I'll check that out too. Thanks for all your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I've been reviewing the chassis wiring diagram for my 2002 Windsor. I am by no means an expert but here's my take The power for the headlights is activated once the key is turned. It then goes to the light switch Then to the VIP smart module, there are relays in the VIP smart wheel module that turn on off the lights Then to the turn signal which is the Douglas Autotech TS012 that I referenced in a previous post. Then to the head light and terminates at the pigtail that you plug the head light in with. I've attached the wiring diagram for my coach, maybe someone else can decipher it. When you open it the PDF will be blurry, hit CTRL5 and it will clear right up. I found by using the search function and key words it's easy to find the circuits. I used headlight as a keyword to start my search. I zoomed into it 1200% to view easily and follow the wiring. Once I found the ignition I then followed it through the light switch, then the VIP circuit, and then the flasher/turn signal. I think the one of the first places I'd check is the turn signal on the column , if no out going power there then work backwards. I am no expert so maybe someone else can chime in. 2002 Windsor Chassis Wiring Diagram.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, jacwjames said: I've been reviewing the chassis wiring diagram for my 2002 Windsor. I am by no means an expert but here's my take The power for the headlights is activated once the key is turned. It then goes to the light switch Then to the VIP smart module, there are relays in the VIP smart wheel module that turn on off the lights Then to the turn signal which is the Douglas Autotech TS012 that I referenced in a previous post. Then to the head light and terminates at the pigtail that you plug the head light in with. I've attached the wiring diagram for my coach, maybe someone else can decipher it. When you open it the PDF will be blurry, hit CTRL5 and it will clear right up. I found by using the search function and key words it's easy to find the circuits. I used headlight as a keyword to start my search. I zoomed into it 1200% to view easily and follow the wiring. Once I found the ignition I then followed it through the light switch, then the VIP circuit, and then the flasher/turn signal. I think the one of the first places I'd check is the turn signal on the column , if no out going power there then work backwards. I am no expert so maybe someone else can chime in. 2002 Windsor Chassis Wiring Diagram.pdf 182.98 kB · 3 downloads Jim, I have the covers off the steering column. There is a big connector plugged in there. I tried to unplug it but can't get it to move much. I think the assembly may have to be removed from the steering column before the plug will come off. As soon as the rain stops, which is probably be tomorrow, I am going to check the connections on the Monaco 1 and Monaco 2 boxes in the front compartment. I'm hoping for a miracle here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Joe, In an earlier post I provided a link to the Douglas Autotech website, I went ahead and downloaded the instructions on how to change the switch, see attached. It says you have to remove switch before you remove the harness. I've done a search to see if I could find a wiring diagram for the harness, no luck. Depending on how the harness connects you might be able to get at the contacts to test. Only issue would be if it needs a ground to the switch. TS012-SER_N turn signal for steering column.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 29 minutes ago, jacwjames said: Joe, In an earlier post I provided a link to the Douglas Autotech website, I went ahead and downloaded the instructions on how to change the switch, see attached. It says you have to remove switch before you remove the harness. I've done a search to see if I could find a wiring diagram for the harness, no luck. Depending on how the harness connects you might be able to get at the contacts to test. Only issue would be if it needs a ground to the switch. TS012-SER_N turn signal for steering column.pdf 211.99 kB · 2 downloads Thanks Jim! I want to try the connections on the boxes in the outside compartment first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 Please check my thinking on this. I had planned to check the connections on the boxes in the front outside compartment today. The main 25A headlight fuse in in one of those boxes. If there was a problem with the connections to that box then I wouldn't be getting voltage to the dash headlight switch, right? Since I'm getting voltage out of the dash headlight switch I think maybe I would be better off finding the SmartWheel controller and checking the connections there. Am I thinking logically here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) Joe, That makes sense based on what I've seen on the wiring diagram. The path for the power was Headlight Switch >> Smartwheel controller>> Turn Signal on column. Again, my smart wheel controller was behind the radio, I had to remove the small section of dash to access it. If you look at the VIP Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide it shows you which harness controls the headlights, I believe it is the J12 harness. You see 12 volt at at one of these pins to power the headlights. Heres a picture of the wiring harness show which pin should be hot. https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/vip-sm209-sm210-smartwheel-controller-j12-plug-harness Here is a link showing a picture of controller http://www.nwrvsupply.com/product/SM210.html Edited January 4, 2020 by jacwjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, jacwjames said: Joe, That makes sense based on what I've seen on the wiring diagram. The path for the power was Headlight Switch >> Smartwheel controller>> Turn Signal on column. Again, my smart wheel controller was behind the radio, I had to remove the small section of dash to access it. If you look at the VIP Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide it shows you which harness controls the headlights, I believe it is the J12 harness. You see 12 volt at at one of these pins to power the headlights. Heres a picture of the wiring harness show which pin should be hot. https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/vip-sm209-sm210-smartwheel-controller-j12-plug-harness Here is a link showing a picture of controller http://www.nwrvsupply.com/product/SM210.html Thanks Jim! I'll pull that dash panel and find the controller. I really appreciate all your help! 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Y Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 51 minutes ago, jminyard1@gmail.com said: Please check my thinking on this. I had planned to check the connections on the boxes in the front outside compartment today. The main 25A headlight fuse in in one of those boxes. If there was a problem with the connections to that box then I wouldn't be getting voltage to the dash headlight switch, right? Since I'm getting voltage out of the dash headlight switch I think maybe I would be better off finding the SmartWheel controller and checking the connections there. Am I thinking logically here? You are correct. If you are sure you voltage from at the switch from the headlight circuit then your problem is less likely in a Monaco fuse block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) UPDATE- I found the SmartWheel controller behind the radio. I have voltage going into pin 1 of J12. No voltage coming out on pin 2 of J12. If I understand this correctly, pressing the headlight button on the SmartWheel should put voltage out on pin 2 to flash the lights. It isn't doing this. I can short out pins 1 & 2 on J12 and the headlights come on, regardless of the position of the headlight switch on the dash. From all this I get that pressing the headlight button on the SmartWheel SHOULD flash the headlights, regardless of the position of the main headlight switch on the dash. This circuit is designed to overide the normal headlight function. There's obviously a problem with that function but that's not my primary problem. Edited January 4, 2020 by jminyard1@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) Sounds like you've made some progress, at least you know your headlights will work. If you've read the VIP trouble shooting guide there is a continuity test to check the flash function, if it fails it indicates the Master needs to be replace. What about the headlight function when you turn on the wipers, it should stay on. Have you checked the pin 6 on the P11, not sure if this is what does it or not but there is an interaction there somehow. The next thing to check would be your high low function on the turn signal as it should let power go to the headlight for either Low or High beam but either way there should be power going to the headlights. Edited January 4, 2020 by jacwjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, jacwjames said: Sounds like you've made some progress, at least you know your headlights will work. If you've read the VIP trouble shooting guide there is a continuity test to check the flash function, if it fails it indicates the Master needs to be replace. The next thing to check would be your high low function on the turn signal as it should let power go to the headlight for either Low or High beam but either way there should be power going to the headlights. I think I will check all the connections to the Monaco 1 and Monaco 2 boxes in the front compartment next since someone said they had the same problem and that's where they found the problem. I't stopped raining here, finally, but the wind is ice cold. May wait for a warmer day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyTools Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Following this thread with great interest to see what you eventually uncover. Your troubleshooting path has been a lot like mine with a similar but different issue - I have headlites, et al, but I don't have the ability to flash them from that headlite button on the SmartWheel. (I've seen it referred-to by the name of 'ICC Flash' and is useful to momentarily blink the lites to tell the driver passing you that it's OK to pull back over). I've about convinced myself that my problem is in the controller, be curious what you decide on yours. Wish I had more suggestions, but the guys have been doing a great job looking over your shoulder and holding the droplite for you. Here's hoping you find that Holy Grail soon, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, RustyTools said: Following this thread with great interest to see what you eventually uncover. Your troubleshooting path has been a lot like mine with a similar but different issue - I have headlites, et al, but I don't have the ability to flash them from that headlite button on the SmartWheel. (I've seen it referred-to by the name of 'ICC Flash' and is useful to momentarily blink the lites to tell the driver passing you that it's OK to pull back over). I've about convinced myself that my problem is in the controller, be curious what you decide on yours. Wish I had more suggestions, but the guys have been doing a great job looking over your shoulder and holding the droplite for you. Here's hoping you find that Holy Grail soon, Joe It appears that function is not working on my rig either. If I'm diagnosing this correctly, I should have voltage out on J12 pin 2 when pressing the headlight flash button on the SmartWheel, and I am not getting any. Looks like that problem has to be a bad controller or a wiring problem from the steering column to the controller, but I'm not gonna worry about that right now! Edited January 4, 2020 by jminyard1@gmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyTools Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Have you completely ruled-out the headlite switch itself? I know you said other lites are working, but the switch sure seems like a common denominator there. And is a lot less-expensive than a Control Box if you decide to 'easter-egg' parts to narrow it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, RustyTools said: Have you completely ruled-out the headlite switch itself? I know you said other lites are working, but the switch sure seems like a common denominator there. And is a lot less-expensive than a Control Box if you decide to 'easter-egg' parts to narrow it down. Yes, I replaced the headlight switch, although I found out that the old one was OK after I determined the connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Joe Looking at the VIP wiring schematic power going to the J12-2 pin is provided prior to the light switch. At least you know that if you bypass this you can get power to the headlights. The power from the light switch goes to the J11 harness pin 6. This provides power to the Headlamp / Marker Control box, which is what probably controls the headlights and interacts with the wiper function to turn them on. Once power for the headlights leave the control box it goes to the turn signal & Hi/Low function. The High/Low function is either or, the lights will either be on high or low beam. but the on/off function comes from the VIP control box. My guess is that there is a latching function so that the power goes to the headlight when the switch is ON or the wipers are activated. I went back and checked the Chassis wiring diagram and power to the headlights has to come through the VIP module and then the trun signal with Hi/Low function, no other way to get there. May be time to VIP and see what they recommend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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