MSHappyCampers Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 My headlights have stopped working on our 2002 Windsor 40PBT. I have been unable to find a wiring diagram. Can anyone help with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) Joe, Don't you have an owners manual? There is one in there under section 12 starting on page 31. If you don't have that I can send a copy of mine to your PEM. Edited December 31, 2019 by Dr4Film Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 Hi Richard! Man, I feel like a real dummy! I had never noticed those diagrams at the back of the owner's manual. I had a copy of that wiring diagram that I got from a guy on IRV2, and had it blown up on a 36"x48" print, but sections of it were blurred and I couldn't follow it. I'm still having a problem with this one. I have 12VDC leaving the headlight switch on the dash but still no headlights. Can you help me figure out what is between the switch and the headlights? I saw a control board in the electrical compartment in front of the tire on the driver's side which has a headlight fuse and relay. The fuse is good and I swapped the relay with another one of the same part number. Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 (edited) Joe, one question I do have is that you need to check whether the headlights turn on when you activate your wipers or not. Get back to me when you find out. I just went through the fuse and relay layout in Section 9 of the manual and found a 25 amp Headlight fuse located in the small Monaco #2 box which is located in that Front Run Bay under the drivers window. You might want to check that fuse also. Edited December 31, 2019 by Dr4Film To Add statement about the headlight fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 Joe, You might check the smart wheel interface as the lights can be controlled by the buttons on the smart wheel and or by turning on the windshield wipers. There is an interface in the wiring diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 Richard & Jim, that 25A fuse is good. The headlights don't work with the wipers operating. I've got to be gone for an hour or so. Will check back when I return! Thanks! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted December 31, 2019 Share Posted December 31, 2019 When I start driving the RV I hit the windshield wiper on then off on the smart wheel, this engages the headlights and they stay on until I turn the coach off. Here's a link to the VIP Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide, https://www.vipwheels.com/sites/default/files/uploads/pdfs/TROUBLESHOOT.pdf You might try going through it to see if it checks out. If the other functions work it's probably not your problem but worth checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 I'm back. Any other ideas? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 1 hour ago, jacwjames said: When I start driving the RV I hit the windshield wiper on then off on the smart wheel, this engages the headlights and they stay on until I turn the coach off. Here's a link to the VIP Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide, https://www.vipwheels.com/sites/default/files/uploads/pdfs/TROUBLESHOOT.pdf You might try going through it to see if it checks out. If the other functions work it's probably not your problem but worth checking. Thanks Jim! I bookmarked that for future reference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Can you check at the bulb connector? Maybe you have positive 12v but no ground going to them? Could be, since it appears that both low and high beams don't work and they would be on different relays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Ivan K said: Can you check at the bulb connector? Maybe you have positive 12v but no ground going to them? Could be, since it appears that both low and high beams don't work and they would be on different relays. I think I checked that but not positive. I've been working on this so long and trying so many different things that it's all running together in my old brain! I'll check that today. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Joe, There are other lamps that are included with the headlights. Are the headlights the ONLY ones not working? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, Dr4Film said: Joe, There are other lamps that are included with the headlights. Are the headlights the ONLY ones not working? The other bulbs in the headlight housing come on when the headlight switch is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 An other thought, if you can flash the headlights from your Smart wheel (left top button on mine), that would also confirm ground presence at the bulb without going under the bus...at least that's how it works on ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 38 minutes ago, Ivan K said: An other thought, if you can flash the headlights from your Smart wheel (left top button on mine), that would also confirm ground presence at the bulb without going under the bus...at least that's how it works on ours. I am not getting any DC voltage at the bulb socket, using a known good ground. The lever on the SmartWheel to flash the lights doesn't do anything either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 Joe, I went through the Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide, there is a simple test to rule out a problem with the module. There is also a wiring diagram at the end and from what I read if the smart wheel module is bad the lights won't work. My smart wheel controller is located behind the radio mounted to the floor, not easy to get to but doable. I had a problem with mine, a wire had come loose and I had to repair a solder using a small battery operated gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 When you say "lever", do you mean the touch button on top of the smart wheel or the turn signal lever/dimmer? One more thing, if you have a remote for your door lock and if it used to flash the lights, does it still do that? That system should be bypassing your light switch and the low/high beam selector lever and should give an additional pointer. It is strange that you do not have low nor high beams because they are pretty much independent with separate relays and fuses (breakers in my case). The only common points that I can see is the main light switch, low/high selector switch and a power bus feeding the fuses/breakers and possibly a ground connection at the lights and relays. If you can hear/feel the high beam relays click, I would go and check for power on the relay's hot side and the corresponding bus. If the relays don't click, I would try to confirm power at the headlight switch again and out of the switch through the low/high selector lever to the relays. You may not even have a low beam relay so that would point back to the switch and selector. All my headlight relays and breakers are in the front bay and the bus is fed from RRB. But like I said, the remote control test and steering wheel flash button would bypass the switch and the selector. I don't know your coach so things could be different in some ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Ivan K said: When you say "lever", do you mean the touch button on top of the smart wheel or the turn signal lever/dimmer? One more thing, if you have a remote for your door lock and if it used to flash the lights, does it still do that? That system should be bypassing your light switch and the low/high beam selector lever and should give an additional pointer. It is strange that you do not have low nor high beams because they are pretty much independent with separate relays and fuses (breakers in my case). The only common points that I can see is the main light switch, low/high selector switch and a power bus feeding the fuses/breakers and possibly a ground connection at the lights and relays. If you can hear/feel the high beam relays click, I would go and check for power on the relay's hot side and the corresponding bus. If the relays don't click, I would try to confirm power at the headlight switch again and out of the switch through the low/high selector lever to the relays. You may not even have a low beam relay so that would point back to the switch and selector. All my headlight relays and breakers are in the front bay and the bus is fed from RRB. But like I said, the remote control test and steering wheel flash button would bypass the switch and the selector. I don't know your coach so things could be different in some ways... The turn signal/headlight flasher lever on the side of the steering column nor the flasher button on the SmartWheel does anything whether the headlight switch is on or off. 1 hour ago, jacwjames said: Joe, I went through the Smart Wheel trouble shooting guide, there is a simple test to rule out a problem with the module. There is also a wiring diagram at the end and from what I read if the smart wheel module is bad the lights won't work. My smart wheel controller is located behind the radio mounted to the floor, not easy to get to but doable. I had a problem with mine, a wire had come loose and I had to repair a solder using a small battery operated gun. Where do I find that trouble-shooting guide? Attached is a pic of two control boards in the bottom left corner of the outside front electrical compartment. Any idea what these are for? I can't find any reference to them in the owner's manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 1, 2020 Share Posted January 1, 2020 (edited) Joe The lower board on the left is your ABS control module, it has a button where you cant test for fault codes. The other board may be for your generator slide. Here is a link to the VIP smart wheel trouble shooting guide https://www.vipwheels.com/sites/default/files/uploads/pdfs/TROUBLESHOOT.pdf My Smart wheel control board was mounted behind the dash where the radio is. Edited January 1, 2020 by jacwjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 34 minutes ago, jacwjames said: Joe The lower board on the left is your ABS control module, it has a button where you cant test for fault codes. The other board may be for your generator slide. Here is a link to the VIP smart wheel trouble shooting guide https://www.vipwheels.com/sites/default/files/uploads/pdfs/TROUBLESHOOT.pdf My Smart wheel control board was mounted behind the dash where the radio is. I bookmarked that manual. Thanks! I took out the drawer in the bottom of the console and didn't see any modules there. Only access directly behind the radio is to remove the dash panel. I didn't think to look under the dash behind the steering column. Any chance it could be there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Just a note about the VIP headlamp influence, and maybe Jim can verify it with the same coach as yours. The VIP can turn off low beams when pushed in (or broken) but has no impact or any connection to high beams, not in my 2000 implementation. Depending on the result it may or may not be eliminated as a potential suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis Y Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Joe, I had a similar problem a month ago. I lost the head lights and the emergency brake chime was sounding when in gear and e-brake off. Other forums recommended replacing the head light switch and e-brake pressure switch. The inexpensive 1960s vintage GM headlight switch came first so I replaced it. Headlights still out. I found a u-tube video on troubling the headlight switch. The headlight switch has two power sources, parking lights and headlights. I determined that there was no voltage on the headlight power pin. The headlight fuse in the Monaco 2 fuse block was not blown. Out of desperation, I decided to check all of the connections to Monaco 2 fuse block which required removing the screws attaching it and the cable bundles to the bulkhead below the main fuse panel. I scraped some congealed grease from the four power pins on the top of the fuse block, reset all of the other connectors, and removed and reset all of the fuses and relays. After putting everything back together, BOTH PROBLEMS SOLVED!! I have since gone back and cleaned all of the external connections to both Monaco 1 and 2 with contact cleaner and lightly greased the pins with dielectric grease. Hopefully, this will alleviate my other phantom electrical issues like the wiper running without being switch on and the exhaust brakes causing the tach and speedo to go to zero and dash alarms. Dennis Y 2004 HR Ambassador/2005 Jeep LJ Rubicon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyTools Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) I finally (after MUCH searching) found the VIP control box on my ’08 Camelot stuck waaay to the front on the floor within the driver arm-rest panel, so you can’t even see it from that little access hatch. It was hidden behind the rest of the wire bundles with the orange air-line in front of it too, making it totally invisible even when you look in there with a little mirror. It was mounted with different heads on all 4 screws, making it even more fun to remove. Edited January 2, 2020 by RustyTools Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 12 hours ago, Ivan K said: Just a note about the VIP headlamp influence, and maybe Jim can verify it with the same coach as yours. The VIP can turn off low beams when pushed in (or broken) but has no impact or any connection to high beams, not in my 2000 implementation. Depending on the result it may or may not be eliminated as a potential suspect. Not sure on this, but I know that when I turn on my wipers the headlights will come on and stay on until I turn the key off. Because of this I reason that there "could" be a possibility that the VIP Smart Wheel might be the problem. 15 hours ago, jminyard1@gmail.com said: I bookmarked that manual. Thanks! I took out the drawer in the bottom of the console and didn't see any modules there. Only access directly behind the radio is to remove the dash panel. I didn't think to look under the dash behind the steering column. Any chance it could be there? Joe, That's how I found the VIP module, I actually found it by accident. My CB radio was not working so I replaced it and had to access behind the radio to get to it. When I was moving things around I dislodged a wire on the VIP module, upon inspection I found it must have happen before and the PO tried to recrimp the connection, I ended up soldering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSHappyCampers Posted January 2, 2020 Author Share Posted January 2, 2020 11 hours ago, Dennis Y said: Joe, I had a similar problem a month ago. I lost the head lights and the emergency brake chime was sounding when in gear and e-brake off. Other forums recommended replacing the head light switch and e-brake pressure switch. The inexpensive 1960s vintage GM headlight switch came first so I replaced it. Headlights still out. I found a u-tube video on troubling the headlight switch. The headlight switch has two power sources, parking lights and headlights. I determined that there was no voltage on the headlight power pin. The headlight fuse in the Monaco 2 fuse block was not blown. Out of desperation, I decided to check all of the connections to Monaco 2 fuse block which required removing the screws attaching it and the cable bundles to the bulkhead below the main fuse panel. I scraped some congealed grease from the four power pins on the top of the fuse block, reset all of the other connectors, and removed and reset all of the fuses and relays. After putting everything back together, BOTH PROBLEMS SOLVED!! I have since gone back and cleaned all of the external connections to both Monaco 1 and 2 with contact cleaner and lightly greased the pins with dielectric grease. Hopefully, this will alleviate my other phantom electrical issues like the wiper running without being switch on and the exhaust brakes causing the tach and speedo to go to zero and dash alarms. Dennis Y 2004 HR Ambassador/2005 Jeep LJ Rubicon Thanks Dennis! It's pouring rain here today but I'll check that as soon as possible! That sound very promising! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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