New Garage - floor drain?

[Jetjockey]

We move 50000 pound plus excavation equipment over 5 in concrete. Compaction of the subsurface matters a lot. As throgmartin mentions it is the transition from one  elevation to another that will crack it. The more cement in the mix the harder surface you can create when power troweled. Makes a smoother more durable surface. While a pit would be nice, some jurisdiction of cities don’t even allow a commercial repair shop to install a pit.

[zmotorsports]

I realize this is an older thread but much of the information should still be relevant to anyone building an accessory building/shop/RV storage.

We lived in our first home for 26 years but had outgrown our 1150 square foot shop years before moving.  After a couple years of planning the ideal property for us and looking around at various cities within the adjacent county we were in, I figured I would need a 3k square foot shop, 2k square foot shop with 1k square foot for RV storage.  My last shop was 34'x34' with 14' ceilings and I now thought a 40'x50' shop with a 20'x50' adjoining RV storage bay all with 16' ceilings would be ideal.  After meeting with the county and city building and code department, we were told that in order to build a 3k square foot accessory building we would need a minimum of 3/4 acre lot.  We set out on the search in early 2016 looking for a home and property that fit our needs as well as wants on a 3/4 acre to 1-acre lot.  I didn't want any more property than necessary as I didn't want something that would be too difficult to maintain as I aged as this would be our forever home.  Our realtor friend tried finding us the property with an existing shop but I kept telling him the shop didn't exist anywhere but in my head and to just find us the home and property as I had a contractor friend already lined out to build the shop.  It took us a while, 8-months to be exact, but we eventually found our perfect home on 3/4 of an acre.

 

Shortly after taking ownership, like a couple of days, I applied for the building permit.  The permit was issued and within a month of owning the house we broke ground on our 3k square foot shop/RV storage building.  It took 8 months to have the building completed and for my son and I to put the yard in, including sprinkler system, fence, gates and all accompanying landscaping and work on the property.

 

We waffled on plumbing in the shop but permitting for that plus the piping from the front of the house was going to bump the cost of the building a little over $10k and I just didn't see the benefit, especially with the house having a bathroom just inside the attached garage on the house and within easy walking distance from the shop.  

 

I designed the shop with certain requirements of mine, with heavy emphasis on electrical as I hate extension cords as well as concrete requirements with deeper pours and rebar around where my columns would be placed for the 2-post lift I was bringing from my old shop.  For electrical, I have quad outlets spaced every 6' with 30, 40 and 50 amp receptacles in certain locations for shop equipment such as bandsaws, lathe, milling machine, and welders.  Also, I installed multiple welder outlets near the doors and near the 2-post lift in the shop for those occasions I need to weld something on a vehicle on the lift or outside the shop.  The power for the mill as well as some power outlets were dropped from the ceiling as I hate extension cords across the floor.  I also added multiple air drops from the ceilings, down the walls and in the RV storage bay where I placed my air compressor to keep noise in the shop down.  

 

My shop is not a pole building as those are not allowed in our subdivision, all stick and brick construction that must match the house exactly.  The wife actually preferred this as she didn't want the shop to look like an afterthought and wanted it all to look like it was built at the exact same time.  I think we nailed it as we were able to match the brick, stucco and shingles exactly to the house and it all looks like it was built at the same time. 

 

Before concrete and sheetrock, I ran multiple conduits from the house to the shop as well as from the meter out front to the shop so the power does not go through the house for the shop.  It comes directly off the main meter so as to keep them separate as well as conduits to eventually add a transfer switch when I get around to adding a standalone generator that will be able to power both in an emergency.  I also ran network cabling from the house to the shop as well as 3-way switches for exterior lights.  This way I can turn on or off the shops exterior lighting from either the back door of the house garage or the shop, this is especially nice when going out to the shop in the dark or coming in from the shop when dark, which is quite often.

 

For power, I also installed "buddy plugs" in the shop so we can have friends plug in when traveling through the area and needing a place to stay for the night.  This feature has become quite well used over the past 7 years now.

 

The RV bay has a 14' tall door by 16' wide and I love how easy it is to back the coach into the shop.  I had the concrete guys place one of the saw cuts down the RV bay just off-center to where I can watch the line in my mirror and makes for easy positioning of the coach.

 

Once we arrive home from a trip, I back the coach into the back yard, we unload it and then I can wash it outside of the RV bay before backing it right in.  This way the coach is always clean while parked inside and travel ready.  The shop is heated all winter long and with how well the building is insulated and with my 150k btu gas fired heater, the RV bay never gets below about 40-degrees.  The fact that I no longer have to winterize the coach is a much-welcomed bonus.  

 

 

 

Washing the coach on the shop's apron before backing it into storage.

 

Tucked away in her home.

 

 

 

Friend's coach backed up to the shop and plugged in as they were passing by for the night.

 

Another friend's coach in the back yard plugged in for the night as they were traveling past.

[jacwjames]

Good idea to check on required permits and restrictions. 

When we found our property there were several houses with garages, it was not in any city/town ordiance jurisdiction and there were do restrictions on the deed but the county did have certain restrictions of garages not attached to the house.  The garage had to further away from the road then the house, which for me was a challenge as the 5 acre parcel sloped to the NW with about 1 acre fairly level on the SE corner of the lot adjacent to the road.  Left me a fairly small area for the garage but I was able to fit it in.  I did put in a large circular drive which makes driving in and backing into the garage pretty easy. 

While I was building the house I went ahead and buried sewer pipe and terminated it close to where the garage was to be built.  Actually put in a connection fore when we have visitors but I also used this while building the house while I lived in the RV for a winter.  Yes this does dump into my septic but I installed a system for a 5 bedroom house, cost extra $$$ but worth it.  Now when I back into the garage I can hook up and dump.  I also have a water connection and 50 amp plug right there.  Works great.  But we do ask visitors not to use any chemicals in their tanks when they are here.  So far so good. 

So it pays to do as much research and planning ahead of time. 

 

After we were done with construction I noticed that newer houses being build had separate garages locate close to the road compared to the house.  I happened to see the building inspector and asked him about it and he said that they were getting so many requests for variances to that building code that they revised it.  Wish that would have happen sooner, I could have built a larger garage with easier access >>> think drive through. 

So it pays to check prior to building to make sure nothing has changed!!!

[zmotorsports]

Agreed Jim.  It definitely pays to do your own research.

 

When I walked in to apply for my building permit, I had a copy of the plot layout from the county with exactly where the shop would be located to scale, the rendering showing the shop matching the house, the blueprints and lastly, the subdivision's CCR&R's stating exactly how accessory buildings were to be constructed in matching materials and colors.  I also had it right to height as the shop could not be taller than the house so the blueprints showed the shop's roof peak being 6" less than the house's peak.  

The building and code inspectors both mentioned how impressed they were and wished more people did their homework before buying the home vs. after and the city having to have those hard discussions letting the homeowners know that they couldn't do what they wanted because of one reason or another.  That is probably why my building permit only took about 4 days to approve and I was off and running.  

[Ivan K]

I had our 40x80 shop built first and while the new house was being built and old house being prepared for sale, it was my weekend 'retreat' and storage. One minor mistake I made was to build them exactly 100' apart. Had to get larger rolls of wiring to connect them since most came in 100' bundles, 90' distance would have been just fine too. Wish I planned for a pit but at the time we did not have this rig and I was good with a couple of lifts, oh well.

[cbr046]

1 hour ago, zmotorsports said:

I realize this is an older thread but much of the information should still be relevant to anyone building an accessory building/shop/RV storage.

Truly the ideal shop & setup, way above my paygrade 😉 .  Feel like making a walk-about video outlining all the unique features?  Start at the curb . . . . Then post it in the Monaco YouTube site. 

Go ahead, make thousands jealous!

- bob

[Ivylog]

Z, it looks like the house is 3-4’ higher than the shop helping to minimize it looking taller than the house? I did much the same although I built a MH bay that’s part of the house… have a 2000+ sqft shop 100 yards away. While I could easily get around both ends of our 42’ Dynasty, the 45’ requires sliding under the mirrors when the door is closed. The MH bay is in front of the carport.

Concret drive is on clay, 4” thick (5” at the edges for 1’) saw cut every 10’. Bay is much the same with 5” where the tires go and a center drain. Put 4” SS tubes in the 6” walls for the generator and AHot exhausts… have use the generator one when back feeding power to the house.

Edited February 12 by Ivylog

[jacwjames]

Pivoting door looks great,

[Ivylog]

5 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Pivoting door looks great,

2” pipe nipples, one poured in the concrete with floor flanges. Adjustable cable from upper one to the bottom left. Had to shorten the turnbuckle as I added the Hardy board to the outside of the 6” door. Haven’t had to install the propane heater even with single digets and not getting above freezing for 6 days.

[zmotorsports]

52 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Truly the ideal shop & setup, way above my paygrade 😉 .  Feel like making a walk-about video outlining all the unique features?  Start at the curb . . . . Then post it in the Monaco YouTube site. 

Go ahead, make thousands jealous!

- bob

 

Bob, here is a shop tour video I did about a year or so ago.  It goes into a few details about the actually building, but mostly it is a shop equipment and toolbox tour.

 

 

 

If you would like, when it warms up a bit, I could do a video geared more specifically to the construction aspects of the building if that is something that you'd like?

 

 

[Just Jim]

Wow... some really nice shops/garages on this forum.  Much envy from one that still has to park (and work on it outdoors).  I do appreciate the many great suggestions and ideas.  Several things I had not considered and will certainly add to my eventual building.  However, my biggest hurdle is finding the land to build on... If it is decent at all (defined as does not require a mountain goat to be tied on it to keep it from falling down the hill) and priced reasonably, then it is sold in less than 24 hours.  I had that happen last week... listed in the afternoon... I went and walked it the next day and before I could make a full priced offer... was sold!!!  I will keep looking... but keep the suggestions and ideas coming. 

One thought I've had is that some of the land I've seen is 1500 feet or more away from the municipal water lines...  Some people have wells, but after exploring that a little, the drillers are at least 6 months behind.  Anyone have any thoughts on rain catchment systems out there?  We get lots of rain in my area... and I like the idea of "free" water.  LOL.

[zmotorsports]

44 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

Z, it looks like the house is 3-4’ higher than the shop helping to minimize it looking taller than the house? I did much the same although I built a MH bay that’s part of the house… have a 2000+ sqft shop 100 yards away. While I could easily get around both ends of our 42’ Dynasty, the 45’ requires sliding under the mirrors when the door is closed. The MH bay is in front of the carport.

Concret drive is on clay, 4” thick (5” at the edges for 1’) saw cut every 10’. Bay is much the same with 5” where the tires go and a center drain. Put 4” SS tubes in the 6” walls for the generator and AHot exhausts… have use the generator one when back feeding power to the house.

 

Dick, I remember reaching out to you years ago about the specifics of your RV garage.  It is quite impressive.

 

I did make mine 50' in depth in the event that we ever decide to get a 45 foot coach, but currently it makes our little 40 footer look tiny.  

 

Here is a view from the street which gives a bit better ratio to the house.  This was just after the shop was completed and before our gates were installed.

 

 

And a view from the backyard showing both the house and shop.  The shop sits 45' behind the house's back door, yet offset enough that the RV bay is a straight shot from the street.  The front of the shop is about 75' from the gate separating the backyard from the front drive.  I can easily park two 45' coaches with toads and still have access to the shop.  A third is possible but it would block the shop's entrance.

 

 

After living in our first home for 26 years, raising our family and having our coaches parked outside, I never in a million years would have ever believed that the wife and I would have a place where we could park the coach in a temperature-controlled garage much less pull it out and hook up the Jeep all in the backyard before ever pulling out of the driveway.

[cbr046]

34 minutes ago, zmotorsports said:

Bob, here is a shop tour video I did about a year or so ago.  It goes into a few details about the actually building, but mostly it is a shop equipment and toolbox tour . . . .

If you would like, when it warms up a bit, I could do a video geared more specifically to the construction aspects of the building if that is something that you'd like?

It's academic to me.  I got pretty mesmerized about 30 min into the tour after the 2nd milling machine.  I spot video'd after that.  Your selection of hand tools is absolutely incredible. 

Unless one of us wins the lottery (and you have to play to win) we're just going to stick with our pole barn and cracking concrete (thank you mr. contractor).  At least we have a full 50A for the RV and 30A for visitors. 

The amount of time putting all this together and then working on projects . . . . do you ever sleep?

- bob

Our pole barn concrete is 24' wide.  I try to park the coach on one 12' wide section so there's room for an visitor's on the other side . . . . or maybe a small pickleball court?  The barn supports are 28' apart with 32' span under roof and 48' length.  The coach is 39' foot long and I had to "justify" the extra 9' (and extra width). 

The barn was custom built.  I don't ask the DW what it cost, just grateful to have it. 

 

It's pretty basic.  As Joe Friday would say, "Just the facts, maam". 

- b

 

[zmotorsports]

12 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

It's academic to me.  I got pretty mesmerized about 30 min into the tour after the 2nd milling machine.  I spot video'd after that.  Your selection of hand tools is absolutely incredible. 

Unless one of us wins the lottery (and you have to play to win) we're just going to stick with our pole barn and cracking concrete (thank you mr. contractor).  At least we have a full 50A for the RV and 30A for visitors. 

The amount of time putting all this together and then working on projects . . . . do you ever sleep?

- bob

 

Thanks Bob.  No lottery player here either, just a lifetime of working a full-time job and running a speed shop as a part time business for 20 years at our old home shop.  I'm only in my mid-50's and still working full-time and even though we no longer have our speed shop, I do still take on the occasional side job here and there for extra money and learning opportunities.

[jacwjames]

Water is an issue that far off the road.  Some the house/lots next to me are on well water.  1000ft up the road from me there is "city" water but it would cost me an arm and a leg to have that line extended and I would also have to pay the previous homeowners who had to have it installed that far.

But the property I built on has an old zinc mine under some of the property and I have two old 6" exploration holes that go into the mine, the water elevation in the hole I have my well pump is ~165' down to the water.  Two other property owners get water from the mine. 

One of the neighbors two doors down had a 1000' deep well, YIKEs. but they had to go that deep to hit decent water.  He had his well pump fail ~2 years ago and it cost him +$7500 to bring in a company just to replace the pump.   Another neighbor is ~150' down but it doesn't have good recovery, it will run of water when they try and water the grass.  So even though E TN gets lots of water it's hit or miss when drilling a well. 

Edited February 12 by jacwjames

[jacwjames]

Here are some pictures of mine

After the concrete was poured I kept it wet for `10 days spraying it down with water every 1-2 hrs a day and soaking it good just before dark.  This extends the curing time and makes the concrete much harder.  The retaining wall is about ~10' from property line and I left a 3' walkway around the rear of the garage with drains

The framing went up pretty fast, they were able to get the sides up in sections and then brought in a crane to set the trusses.  Used a lift to do the finish work. 

Insulation went up and then the outside metal to hold it in place.  I think it is R7 which does a pretty good job, last month we had temps below zero but garage stayed ~30F. 

I did have the windows next to the RV installed high so it puts light on the roof, easier to work on it.  Rest of window standard height to provide decent daylight in workshop.  I did use 4' long LED lights up high in the garage and then two rows in the work shop.  Bought on Ebay for a decent price. 

Picture of inside garage before I built workshop gives you an idea of size, the power, water and sewer are on the right side since I back into the garage.  I did put drains in front of each garage door, we get some pretty strong wind/rain from the west and some does blow under the doors.  Also put a drain next to sewer hookup and then a long drain at rear of coach that catches condensation if I'm running AC.  Front AC condensation drains to sewer floor drain. 

Workshop is 23'W  X  26' L.  I do work wood working.  I made the ceiling in the strong enough to use for storage mostly rough lumber.  Workshop is insulated with R15 in walls and ~R 23 in ceiling.  I used batt insulation plus 2" styrofoam between the floor joists.  Insulation is cut to fit tightly between floor joists.  The white ceiling really brightens up the workshop. 

I only put a 50 amp servicing the garage but it seems to do OK.  If I'm running woodworking equipment I have to limit consumption for RV, not a big deal but wish I would have run a 100 amp power feed from the house. 

 

Edited February 12 by jacwjames

[Just Jim]

Nice looking building Jim.  That is about what I'm wanting too.  With the walls that tall I figure I can add "lean to" sides for additional space.  Thanks for sharing.

[6Wheels]

15 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Water is an issue that far off the road.  Some the house/lots next to me are on well water.  1000ft up the road from me there is "city" water but it would cost me an arm and a leg to have that line extended and I would also have to pay the previous homeowners who had to have it installed that far.

But the property I built on has an old zinc mine under some of the property and I have two old 6" exploration holes that go into the mine, the water elevation in the hole I have my well pump is ~165' down to the water.  Two other property owners get water from the mine. 

One of the neighbors two doors down had a 1000' deep well, YIKEs. but they had to go that deep to hit decent water.  He had his well pump fail ~2 years ago and it cost him +$7500 to bring in a company just to replace the pump.   Another neighbor is ~150' down but it doesn't have good recovery, it will run of water when they try and water the grass.  So even though E TN gets lots of water it's hit or miss when drilling a well. 

A pump having to lift 1,000 ft. will be stressing.  Maybe put 2 pumps in-line in case one fails next time.

[zmotorsports]

That's a nice looking building Jim.  

For those looking to build, if I could offer two big pieces of information, or at least what I think are big.

 

Make the RV storage bay wide enough to extend slides, larger than 14' wide, and go wider than a 12' wide door, minimum of 14' wide.  We have a few friends who were trying to save money and/or had space constraints when they built their RV garages and went 14-16 feet wide with the bays and only used 12' wide doors and that seems to be their biggest two complaints.

 

Fortunately, I saw these buildings and envisioned what I wanted long before having the opportunity to build my own RV garage and therefore these areas were addressed and part of the original design from day one.  

 

My RV bay door is 14' tall by 16' wide and is a pleasure to pull in and out of without being tight.  The RV bay itself is 20' wide.  This allows me to hug the curb side (driver's) wall (about 36" off wall) during normal parking conditions and have a good 8+ feet on the street side to avoid having to get near the coach's paint during the majority of the time.  I have a seam cut in my floor that allows me to back in and place the tires right on the edge for normal parking duties.

 

In the event I have some repairs to make I will shift the coach a few feet to the curb side when backing in thus giving me plenty of space on both sides to have the slides extended and still work around the coach.

 

Just thought I'd share that for anyone preparing to build an RV garage.

Edited February 13 by zmotorsports

[jacwjames]

When I was finishing the site prep I was fortunate in that my neighbor had a large pile of dirt/fill that he commented he was going to have to rent a dozer to level it out.  I asked if I could use it and he gave me the go ahead so I spent a couple weeks moving it and using it to expand my foot print.  I would not have been able to build as large of a garage as I did without it. 

I knew access was an issue and I did some testing on whether I would be able to pull in or have to back in.  Because of the turning radius there was no way I could pull and have enough room for my workshop.  So I tested backing in and it worked fine.  As I back toward the shop I aim the rear drivers side tires to be ~2' off the 14' garage door opening on that side and then as soon as the tires hit the concrete crank the wheel to bring the front end around. 

I did only allow for 16' wide parking area, wish I had more but it is what it is.  Like Zmotorwports I have to move the coach one side to the other to work on it.  I have more of a need for the workshop then the RV parking. 

One added benefit of having the ~9' high mezzanine on top of the workshoop is that it provides easy access to the roof of the coach.  I used some short ramps that allow me walk across to get on the roof.  With the air dumped I can walk under the trusses BUT if the coach is still aired up I smack my head, one more foot of height would have been nice.  

[Frank McElroy]

Mike, I enjoyed watching your videos on the construction and shop tour years ago - they are great and very informative.

I had much the same philosophy as you did when I built my pole barn back in 2007 - some pictures are posted on page 2 of this thread.  It has a conventional shingle roof, concrete poles below grade, sandwiched 3-2x6 DF poles above with steel plates to the concrete poles, insulated interior, 100 amp electrical service, and fully sheetrocked.  I outsourced the building construction and concrete - the insulation (spray foam & fiberglass), electrical and sheetrock I did myself.  Hanging 4x12' sheets of sheetrock for the most part alone on a 15' high ceiling was the hardest part.  Wall sheetrock and taping was easy by comparison.

Building code restrictions did play an important part in the design and size.  I thought that a garage restriction was 1,000 SQFT max and at least 35 feet off the property line, but when I spoke with the building department, they said that as long as it wasn't attached to the house, it didn't have running water, didn't use it to store more than 3 vehicles or use it as a business warehouse, it would be classified as a residential storage building with a max size of 1500 SQFT, exterior height below 21" and at least 15 feet off the property line.  So, that's what I did - and no required variance approvals from my neighbors.  (The building inspector did tell me that during construction, I had one very upset neighbor who complained that it was way too big and it blocked her view of the deer in my back yard - they told her sorry - he has all the proper permits to build it.)

My biggest objective was to have an inside storage home for our new coach to keep it clean - no rodents, and never need to winterizes again.  After 18 years of winterizing gassers - I had enough.

I found that I didn't need to heat it in the winter as temps never got below 34 DF inside even with some very cold sub zero NJ winter cold snaps - the 8" thick concrete floor and spray foam/fiberglass insulation worked well.  One of my future projects is to pipe underground hot water from the house boiler to the barn but I still have that pretty low on my to-do list.  When I upgraded the home heating system before building the barn, I designed and installed a modulated 35,000 - 150,000 gas boiler in the house with up to 6 air handlers and radiant heat zones - one zone is already setup for the barn.

Street aesthetics were also important.  With the 125 foot street setback to the corner of the 1 acre lot and only the 14x14 foot door facing the street, two front and rear man doors are on the right side, 2 windows on each side, a few neighbors commented that it seemed much smaller looking from the street vs actually being up close inside.

A few folks on the forum have stayed for overnight visits.  There is enough room to park in front of the door and hook up to a 50 amp exterior pedestal without blocking any of the 3 house garage doors.

Made a lot of right decisions on this project and very happy with it.  I'd do it all again exactly the same way.

[zmotorsports]

On 2/16/2024 at 3:58 PM, Frank McElroy said:

Mike, I enjoyed watching your videos on the construction and shop tour years ago - they are great and very informative.

I had much the same philosophy as you did when I built my pole barn back in 2007 - some pictures are posted on page 2 of this thread.  It has a conventional shingle roof, concrete poles below grade, sandwiched 3-2x6 DF poles above with steel plates to the concrete poles, insulated interior, 100 amp electrical service, and fully sheetrocked.  I outsourced the building construction and concrete - the insulation (spray foam & fiberglass), electrical and sheetrock I did myself.  Hanging 4x12' sheets of sheetrock for the most part alone on a 15' high ceiling was the hardest part.  Wall sheetrock and taping was easy by comparison.

Building code restrictions did play an important part in the design and size.  I thought that a garage restriction was 1,000 SQFT max and at least 35 feet off the property line, but when I spoke with the building department, they said that as long as it wasn't attached to the house, it didn't have running water, didn't use it to store more than 3 vehicles or use it as a business warehouse, it would be classified as a residential storage building with a max size of 1500 SQFT, exterior height below 21" and at least 15 feet off the property line.  So, that's what I did - and no required variance approvals from my neighbors.  (The building inspector did tell me that during construction, I had one very upset neighbor who complained that it was way too big and it blocked her view of the deer in my back yard - they told her sorry - he has all the proper permits to build it.)

My biggest objective was to have an inside storage home for our new coach to keep it clean - no rodents, and never need to winterizes again.  After 18 years of winterizing gassers - I had enough.

I found that I didn't need to heat it in the winter as temps never got below 34 DF inside even with some very cold sub zero NJ winter cold snaps - the 8" thick concrete floor and spray foam/fiberglass insulation worked well.  One of my future projects is to pipe underground hot water from the house boiler to the barn but I still have that pretty low on my to-do list.  When I upgraded the home heating system before building the barn, I designed and installed a modulated 35,000 - 150,000 gas boiler in the house with up to 6 air handlers and radiant heat zones - one zone is already setup for the barn.

Street aesthetics were also important.  With the 125 foot street setback to the corner of the 1 acre lot and only the 14x14 foot door facing the street, two front and rear man doors are on the right side, 2 windows on each side, a few neighbors commented that it seemed much smaller looking from the street vs actually being up close inside.

A few folks on the forum have stayed for overnight visits.  There is enough room to park in front of the door and hook up to a 50 amp exterior pedestal without blocking any of the 3 house garage doors.

Made a lot of right decisions on this project and very happy with it.  I'd do it all again exactly the same way.

 

 

Frank that is a gorgeous property that you have there and you should be very proud of it.  By reading through your description it sounds as though we had a very similar thought process throughout our builds.