Steering issue

[Lolo1034]

Hi all...I have a 2006 Monaco Cayman.  When driving it “floats “ side to side, like too much play in the wheel.  Anyone have this type of issue? Or ideas to fix? It’s at a big rig shop now, just doing some research on my own.  Only 65k miles on it.
  Thank you

Edited March 23, 2021 by Lolo1034

[Dwight Lindsey]

Be sure that your trailing arms are not cracked or broken.

You should talk to Source Enginnering and have a look at their products for your rig:

http://sourcerv.com/trailing_arm

http://sourcerv.com/REK4

Dwight

[Lolo1034]

Thank you

[John Haggard]

24 minutes ago, Lolo1034 said:

Hi all...I have a 2006 Monaco Cayman.  When driving it “floats “ side to side, like too much play in the wheel.  Anyone have this type of issue? Or ideas to fix? It’s at a big rig shop now, just doing some research on my own.  Only 65k miles on it.
  Thank you

Very common issue.

Shops deal with these issues everyday around the world.

 

Just see what they say at your big truck shop.

And yes

Research source engineering 

[Steve Hepfer]

I had the same issue. Check to see if you have the Sheppard steering box. If so I recommend changing it out to the TRW. I also put a Watts link on the front and cross bars on the rear. Made massive improvement 

[vito.a]

Yes, this is a common issue with the Sheppard steering box.  Many have swapped the Sheppard non-adjustable for a much tighter adjustable TRW steering box.  

Lots to read here:

Steering Box Play- Sheppard M100 SHIM or Swap for a TRW ? - iRV2 Forums

[fredelkamp]

I just had the full MonacoWatts system installed, made a great improvement, but now I need to get an alignment as she pulls a little to the right. I would also like to swap out my Sheppard steering box for the TRW. Does anyone have a recommendation for someone in Indiana to do the work? I'm getting some other work done there and thought that might be the perfect time and place to have this done.

Thanks in advance.

[vanwill52]

16 hours ago, fredelkamp said:

I just had the full MonacoWatts system installed, made a great improvement, but now I need to get an alignment as she pulls a little to the right. I would also like to swap out my Sheppard steering box for the TRW. Does anyone have a recommendation for someone in Indiana to do the work? I'm getting some other work done there and thought that might be the perfect time and place to have this done.

Thanks in advance.

The Monaco Watts installations should not have caused the pulling to the right or made any change in your alignment.  Check for something obviously awry, like one of the cross-bars unequally tightened.

Do you have the Safety-Steer (?) device installed?  It's the one that looks like a huge shock absorber with one end fastened to the front axle and the other end to the relay rod that ties the two spindle ends together.  It is easy to get it clamped a tiny bit too far in one direction or the other, causing a pull.  To check that, disconnect it from the relay rod, tie it up out of the way and test drive.  That happened to me.

Most alignments are a waste of money.  The only thing commonly adjusted is the toe-in and you can set that yourself with a tape measure.  To change caster requires shims under the axle perches and is almost never needed.  Changing camber requires powerful hydraulic apparatus to bend the axle.  Unless the coach has been in a serious accident, the caster and camber will not need adjustment for the life of the vehicle.

To get the correct TRW steering gear and replacement Pittman Arm, contact Weller and give them all your coach info.  Once you have the components, any heavy truck shop can replace the steering  gear.  Again, changing the steering gear does NOT affect alignment whatsoever.  If, after replacing the steering gear, your steering wheel is not "straight up" when you are driving straight, disconnect the splined U-joints (behind the plastic cover below the dash) and rotate as many splines as necessary.  Anyone telling you that you need alignment after replacing the steering gear simply does not understand the installation.

When you have the cross-bars, Watts link, and TRW steering gear, you will have transformed the way your coach drives.

[John Haggard]

Vanwill is correct

Josam said.

Watch your tire wear.

In my case.

I have never had uneven tread wear.

So I have only had one alignment in ten year's. 

 

 

[fredelkamp]

Sorry, if I inferred the cross-bars, with front and rear Watts links caused the minor pulling to the right. Before It was a constant fight just to keep her on the road, she was constantly see-sawing back and forth going down the road, a little pull to the right was the least of my problems. The strait line tracking improvement with the MonacoWatts is amazing, at this point I'm just being picky.

I don't have a Safety-Steer device installed, but on my old F-53 chassis I installed a Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer, it was a secure feeling against front tire blowouts so I'll probably will stop by Tallapoosa, GA to get a a Safe-T-Plus installed. The boss doesn't let me go under or on top of the coach anymore.

[vanwill52]

I would have the steering gear replaced and THEN evaluate whether you need anything else done.  Again, changing the steering gear will not affect alignment one iota.

[jacwjames]

Van,

When I bought coach I had no information on it's history, it was a Repo we found in FL.  The front tires had a terrible wear pattern, it had a bad vibration in the front due to the wear pattern.  Couldn't really tell how it drove it was so bad.

So once I got it home I arranged to have a new set of tires installed on the front and wanted to make sure the alignment was good.  I contacted Buddy Gregg in Knoxville and they gave me a recommendation for an alignment. 

The shop owner checked the coach's alignment and did find a problem with the camber.  The shop did indeed pull out the hydraulic system with chains and bent the front axle.   It was a very reasonable cost considering what they had to do and the results.

Final result was great, my Windsor still drives straight and true, I can literally drive with a couple fingers on the steering wheel.  The front tires with 50K miles on them still looked (s) like new.  The front tires are now aged out and I need to change, hopefully in the coming month.

 

Jim

[StillRunning_60]

 Also looking at upgrading my Shepherd steering box to a TRW box. Call Weller Truck Parts this morning and was quoted for TRW box and arm was over 1200 dollars. My first question is can I go to Visone salvage which is only a 45 minutes drive from me and look for a TRW box and arm to fit my 2002 36’ Monaco Windsor or do I have to go thu Weller Truck Parts for their replacement kit. My next question is the TRW steering box I think I need is a TAS65 66003. I would like to know how do I find out for sure the correct TRW steering box I need and which route is the best for me to take. The Weller kit or try and find a box fro salvage.

Thanks in advance and sure do appreciate all the great help I have received fro everyone on this site.

larry E

[jacwjames]

There should be a name tag on the Shepard, see if you can find and use this to help cross for a TRW.  

I did a quick search of the Visione website and could not find any steering boxes, surprised with the inventory of salvaged coaches they usually have.  I'd give them a call and see if they have any and then make a decision to make a trip. 

From my experience you'll pay close to new from Visione, they know they are a niche market and charge dearly for it.  I needed a section of door hinge but Monaco only had the door side, which I paid ~$80 for enough to do 4 doors (I needed 2).  I bought the other piece, enough to do 2 doors, for $150 which I had to strip and repaint to my color. 

[StillRunning_60]

James I see you have the 02 windsor as well. Do you have the TRW steering box. You are right on visione prices. Where would the tag be located. All I can find is some info on side on case. I am including what I can find on my Shepherd.

 

[jacwjames]

No, I have the Sheppard and must be one of the lucky ones, my steering is tight (one finger on the steering wheel type tight).

Here is the parts page for my Steering box, M100PLG-32, there is a different part number for rigs made after 11/30/2001, not sure if there were any changes after that.

1 Steering Gear Box.pdf

[StillRunning_60]

Thanks James. Not sure if my 02 was made after that date or not. Will look tomorrow for a tag. My steering is not terrible but does pull to right some and sometimes the rear of coach has an unusual feeling if you have to made a quite left correction on steering.

[jacwjames]

You can also go by the build number of your coach, mine is 127165.  If you have the data card it is listed on the top, last 6 digits of the unit SN. 

When I first bought my coach the front tires had a bad wear problem.  First thing I did was have new steer tires put on and then had a wheel alignment done, they had to correct the chamber by bending the front axle.  That's the only thing I've had done to my coach's steering. 

I live near Knoxville and contacted Buddy Greg and they recommended a shop.  It must have helped as the front tires have +50K miles and absolutely no wear pattern.

[vanwill52]

1 hour ago, stillrunning_60@hotmail.com said:

Thanks James. Not sure if my 02 was made after that date or not. Will look tomorrow for a tag. My steering is not terrible but does pull to right some and sometimes the rear of coach has an unusual feeling if you have to made a quite left correction on steering.

Your pix show the sector shaft depth engagement screw of a TRW box.  Refer to the (voluminous) posts on iRV2 about how to adjust lost motion.  IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE, AND ANYONE TELLING YOU THAT YOU NEED AN "EXPERT" TO ADJUST IT HAS PROBABLY NEVER CHANGED A FLAT TIRE.

If you have a TRW gear, the chance that it needs service (other than adjustment for lost motion) are  miniscule.

Rear cross-braces and a front Watts link will further improve your driving experience beyond your expectations.

No need to replace your trailing arm bushings.  Most coaches after 2001 have the latest design of Monaco OEM trailing arm bushing and increasing that stiffness with the ATRO bushing replacement results in only modest improvement.  The three big things to improve your driving experience are 1) adjust your TRW gear or replace you Sheppard with a TRW. 2) Add a front Watts link from www.monacowatts.com  3) Add rear cross-braces from www.monacowatts.com.  Mike Hughes has done far more installations than I did for "proof of concept".  Mike is a wealth of knowledge.  (And a helluva nice guy!)

[dl_racing427]

15 hours ago, vanwill52 said:

Your pix show the sector shaft depth engagement screw of a TRW box.  Refer to the (voluminous) posts on iRV2 about how to adjust lost motion.  IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE, AND ANYONE TELLING YOU THAT YOU NEED AN "EXPERT" TO ADJUST IT HAS PROBABLY NEVER CHANGED A FLAT TIRE.

If you have a TRW gear, the chance that it needs service (other than adjustment for lost motion) are  miniscule.

Rear cross-braces and a front Watts link will further improve your driving experience beyond your expectations.

No need to replace your trailing arm bushings.  Most coaches after 2001 have the latest design of Monaco OEM trailing arm bushing and increasing that stiffness with the ATRO bushing replacement results in only modest improvement.  The three big things to improve your driving experience are 1) adjust your TRW gear or replace you Sheppard with a TRW. 2) Add a front Watts link from www.monacowatts.com  3) Add rear cross-braces from www.monacowatts.com.  Mike Hughes has done far more installations than I did for "proof of concept".  Mike is a wealth of knowledge.  (And a helluva nice guy!)

That's strange, as the pics clearly show Sheppard cast into the side of his box.

Did Sheppard ever make an adjustable steering gear like the TRW?

[vanwill52]

58 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

That's strange, as the pics clearly show Sheppard cast into the side of his box.

Did Sheppard ever make an adjustable steering gear like the TRW?

Good catch, David.  I don't know if the pix are mixed up between Sheppard and TRW.  Our true guru on these issues is Craig French, who has sold his Monaco and will soon be  constructing from scratch of a mega-monster off-road coach based on a 5500 (?) Cummins diesel powered 4x4 cab & chassis.  He seldom contributes since selling his Monaco.  I sold him two machine tools from the closure of my business that I expect will play a significant part in that build. But in my experience with adjusting the pinion engagement of 50+ coaches with TRW gears, I don't recall any Sheppard having any adjustment whatsoever.  I even machined a special two-piece adjustment wrench for Craig because he offered to adjust anyone's TRW gear at each Gathering.  That speical wrench/screwdriver was machined to fit the slotted adjuster/locknut shown in that picture.  Craig is quite an impressive engineer, even though he has no formal Mechanical Engineering experience.

The Sheppard was a steering gear built with a fixed engagement pinion (straight-cut gear) and a simple (straight-cut) rack gear.  The fact that the rack gear was straight-cut, relegated any adjustment of pinion engagement moot, because any increase in engagement on a worn-in-the-center straight-cut rack gear would only cause binding at any position other than dead-center.  To my knowledge, NO Sheppard gear ever had any adjustment.  And the "blueprinting" of a Sheppard gear (Red Head was one company offering that service) involved simply choosing the largest pitch-diameter pinion and pairing it with the highest pitch-diameter rack gear.  It was essentially a process of pitch-diameter parts selection, not of changing anything whatever about the construction of the gear.  To give it due credit, the Sheppard gear is arguably more robust than the TRW, and its design is well suited to extreme loads in moving the steering linkage of a HUGE off-road Terex machine which moves at very low speeds.  However, motor home owners want something with a dead-ahead "zero-play", much like they are accustomed to in automobiles, which all (as far as I know) have an adjustment for zero "dead ahead" play.

The TRW, on the other hand, has a pinion which is cut with a very slight taper in pitch diameter.  The further you adjust its engagement into the rack gear, the larger its "effective" pitch diameter becomes.  This cures any "dead-center" free-play issues.  But the true genius of the TRW gear is that its RACK is cut "bowed up" in its center.  That is, its "effective" pitch diameter is greater at its center.  therefore, you can always adjust the gear to "zero backlash" in the straight-ahead position without any binding at positions other that "straight-ahead"

I don't know how it happened, but I think the pix of the adjustment screw is of a TAS-95 (?) TRW gear.  If not, I stand corrected.  But one thing my vast experience with wandering problems of Roadmaster chassis has taught me is that an owner like Jim with a "very tight" Sheppard box is rare.  If you own a MH with a sloppy, large "dead center" position of the steering wheel, it is possible it is a TRW needing adjustment...but more likely it is a Sheppard which can only be replaced to cure the problem.  Forget "blueprinting" your steering box.

[dl_racing427]

Van.

Thank you for that thorough explanation of the problem with the Sheppard box, as well as the differences between it and the TRW.

[StillRunning_60]

Went back out and took another pic of the small screw in bottom of box (pic) adjustment for the box I have no clue. This is for sure a Shepherd steering box I took another pic of letters in case. Can not find a label. If it had one it has been painted over.

[jacwjames]

Here is a manual for a Sheppard steering box I had in my files.  It does have a section on symptoms and troubleshooting.   I did a quick glance and there is no mention of any type adjustment to the box.  It does mention air trapped in box as a potential problem.  Also suggests checking the intermediate shaft in the steering column. 

Sheppard M100 steering box series manual.pdf

[vanwill52]

The last pix you posted in the first series of pix shows a rusty patch on a flat area between two bolt bosses.  On most of the TRW gears, that is where the model number is located.  It is pin-stamped and faint, but if you clean the area with ScotchBrite the numbers will show up.  Looks like someone has already done that in the past.

Does your Pittman arm fasten to the gear with a bolt through its steering gear end?  Or does it use a clamp bolt that squeezes a split in the steering gear end of the arm?