2003 Executive Battery Management

[Grampy OG]

Just when I thought I had a good understanding of the "Big Boy" and the "BIRD" controllers I decided to cross reference with my right rear run bay/box. Well heck, I don't appear to have either one of those management  products.  Do any of you have an understanding of the components that are making up my battery management. I do believe that one of the components interfaces with my one and only solar panel. 

My reason for understanding all of this is that I do not believe that my house batteries are charging properly while driving down the road with only the alternator supplying current. I am also suspect that they are not charging properly with the generator. 

At times it seems that the chassis batteries are not charging properly with shore power connected. 

I understand that with all of our coaches there is a switching system but when I went on the hunt for the BigBoy and Bird I found this. 

Thanks for any input that you all may have,

Ken

 

 

 

[Bill C]

You have one similar to my 2001 Dynasty, here is some info that my be useful. Let  me know if you have any questions. The image labeled IMG_1252" is not from my coach but may be useful.

 

Bill

 

[timaz996]

On your battery maintainer (green on right side of picture) you should have a green light on when your generator is running or plugged in. Is it?

 

Tim

[wamcneil]

On 3/29/2021 at 8:46 AM, Grampy OG said:

Just when I thought I had a good understanding of the "Big Boy" and the "BIRD" controllers I decided to cross reference with my right rear run bay/box. Well heck, I don't appear to have either one of those management  products.  Do any of you have an understanding of the components that are making up my battery management. I do believe that one of the components interfaces with my one and only solar panel. 

My reason for understanding all of this is that I do not believe that my house batteries are charging properly while driving down the road with only the alternator supplying current. I am also suspect that they are not charging properly with the generator. 

At times it seems that the chassis batteries are not charging properly with shore power connected. 

I understand that with all of our coaches there is a switching system but when I went on the hunt for the BigBoy and Bird I found this. 

Thanks for any input that you all may have,

Ken

The big 200a Dual Battery Isolator on the left feeds alternator current to both chassis and house batteries when the chassis side is charging (engine is running). This one is pretty straightforward. When you have elevated voltage coming from the alternator (middle terminal), you should see the voltage on the other two terminals.

The smaller Lambert isolator on the right feeds charger/solar current to both house and chassis batteries when the house batteries are being charged. This one is not quite as straightforward as it looks... those diagrams posted above show the Chassis terminal on the right as being connected to that circuit breaker up above the big relay, but it's not actually like the drawing... On the top circuit breaker, the gray wire crimped to the 10ga red wire is a fusible link. From there, the red wire goes into the wire loom, crosses over to the other run box on the left side of the engine bay, through another relay in that box, back into the wire loom and back over to the battery isolator's right-side terminal.

The big solenoid in the middle just combines the the chassis batteries (top terminal) with the house batteries (bottom terminal) only when you press the Battery Boost switch on the dash.

Cheers,

Walter.

Edited March 30, 2021 by wamcneil

[Grampy OG]

On 3/30/2021 at 8:32 AM, wamcneil said:

The big 200a Dual Battery Isolator on the left feeds alternator current to both chassis and house batteries when the chassis side is charging (engine is running). This one is pretty straightforward. When you have elevated voltage coming from the alternator (middle terminal), you should see the voltage on the other two terminals.

The smaller Lambert isolator on the right feeds charger/solar current to both house and chassis batteries when the house batteries are being charged. This one is not quite as straightforward as it looks... those diagrams posted above show the Chassis terminal on the right as being connected to that circuit breaker up above the big relay, but it's not actually like the drawing... On the top circuit breaker, the gray wire crimped to the 10ga red wire is a fusible link. From there, the red wire goes into the wire loom, crosses over to the other run box on the left side of the engine bay, through another relay in that box, back into the wire loom and back over to the battery isolator's right-side terminal.

The big solenoid in the middle just combines the the chassis batteries (top terminal) with the house batteries (bottom terminal) only when you press the Battery Boost switch on the dash.

Cheers,

Walter.

Thank you Walter you closed the gaps for me. 

On 3/29/2021 at 10:49 AM, Timaz996 said:

On your battery maintainer (green on right side of picture) you should have a green light on when your generator is running or plugged in. Is it?

 

Tim

Hi Tim,

The led does not light. I found an old manual online for trouble shooting the battery maintainer so I will follow the steps to check it with the VOM and if it is indeed bad I will replace it. The part is no longer made but I think any similar battery maintainer will work. I suspect this is why my chassis batteries are dipping down over time.  I will attach the PDF incase any other members may have an interest. 

 

LAMBERT Battery Maintainer LE-415.pdf

[MichaelU295]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:32 AM, wamcneil said:

The big 200a Dual Battery Isolator on the left feeds alternator current to both chassis and house batteries when the chassis side is charging (engine is running). This one is pretty straightforward. When you have elevated voltage coming from the alternator (middle terminal), you should see the voltage on the other two terminals.

The smaller Lambert isolator on the right feeds charger/solar current to both house and chassis batteries when the house batteries are being charged. This one is not quite as straightforward as it looks... those diagrams posted above show the Chassis terminal on the right as being connected to that circuit breaker up above the big relay, but it's not actually like the drawing... On the top circuit breaker, the gray wire crimped to the 10ga red wire is a fusible link. From there, the red wire goes into the wire loom, crosses over to the other run box on the left side of the engine bay, through another relay in that box, back into the wire loom and back over to the battery isolator's right-side terminal.

The big solenoid in the middle just combines the the chassis batteries (top terminal) with the house batteries (bottom terminal) only when you press the Battery Boost switch on the dash.

Cheers,

Walter.

Any info on the big solenoid for battery boost?  Please help.  I believe that mine is bad.  I sucked too much current (18 Amp) and it stripped the mini breaker (10A) provided power to the coil next to it.  I don't find any label or part number on mine anymore.

Thanks,

Michael

2001 Executive

[wamcneil]

Have you tried our parts list? I’d bet it’s in there. 

W

Edited April 7 by wamcneil

[MichaelU295]

16 minutes ago, wamcneil said:

Have you tried our parts list? I’d bet it’s in there. 

W

Thank you so much Walter!

I found it: AC Delco 1119865

The Parts List is awesome!

Thanks,

Michael

[timaz996]

Michael you may be able to take it apart and clean the contacts to fix it.

[Tom Cherry]

31 minutes ago, MichaelU295 said:

Any info on the big solenoid for battery boost?  Please help.  I believe that mine is bad.  I sucked too much current (18 Amp) and it stripped the mini breaker (10A) provided power to the coil next to it.  I don't find any label or part number on mine anymore.

Thanks,

Michael

2001 Executive

Nope….your Big Boy is NOT involved with the “other circuits”.  The Big Boy is like a heavy duty knife switch.  Push the Boost button.  Bingo, assuming it is working and does not have corroded contacts, it is like a jumper cable.  It connects both banks.  You really need to read sections 8 & 9 of the owner’s manual.  Take it back to each area of the MH and locate and understand.  The way to test the Big Boy.  Get out your VOM.  Unplug from shore and disconnect or cover solar panel.  
 

Then measure both sides of big boy…..to GROUND….Note the readings.  Go back on shore or genny.  Now remeasure. House will be higher….maybe 13/14.  Have someone Press booster switch.  Remeasure.   Voltage should be same within a tenth or so.  OK….perfect.  Now meausre and discoOn SHORE or with Genny running…..MEASURE the Voltage between each terminal….should be zero or close.  If you heard the BOOST engage or the Big Boy went CLUNK….great.  If voltages are different, there is a file here on cleaning.  Folks that couldn’t spell BIG BOY have done it in less than half an hour.

[MichaelU295]

53 minutes ago, timaz996 said:

Michael you may be able to take it apart and clean the contacts to fix it.

Hi Tim, yes I did.  The problem is current draw on the coil.  I measured the coil resistance only showing 1 Ohm and the current showing 18 Amps.  Comparing to the Big Boy solenoid which only draws about 6 Amps.  I guess that mine was shorted. 

[Tom Cherry]

Here is the file on cleaning….

 

[Just Jim]

Grampy... I had that exact same system and replaced the isolation box, boost solenoid and maintainer with the Blue Sea ML ACR.  Before replacing old tech parts you might want to consider that option.  Its not a bad upgrade and there are lots of threads on here of how to complete.  I just finished running the switch up to the dash this weekend and can save you a bunch of time on that if you need it.

Jim

[MHRookie]

56 minutes ago, Just Jim said:

Grampy... I had that exact same system and replaced the isolation box, boost solenoid and maintainer with the Blue Sea ML ACR.  Before replacing old tech parts you might want to consider that option.  Its not a bad upgrade and there are lots of threads on here of how to complete.  I just finished running the switch up to the dash this weekend and can save you a bunch of time on that if you need it.

Jim

I second looking at this if/when you need to replace existing parts.  Installing the bluesea unit also allows you to change to a more affordable alternator when/if your Leece Neville fails (to a 28si alternator).  

[Benjamin]

That relay looks suspiciously like the solenoid on any direct drive Delco Remy starter that came on most Cat or Cummins engines up until gear reduction starters took over.  It's POSSIBLE that they re engineered the coil to be better suited to this purpose, but I bet they used stock parts and the pulse width modulation allows the intermittent coil to function continuously.  Regardless of the coil, the contact end is the same, and looks like the Big Boy gets dirtier than a starter solenoid, but doesn't get as worn down from arcing, so a Big Boy could be a convenient source of parts to get a Delco direct drive starter working in an emergency, or a replacement Delco solenoid could supply parts for a Big Boy rebuild if the plastic was cracked, or the copper bolts twisted off, possibly even replace the coil and all contact parts by swapping the plunger, but I won't promise that.  I haven't found any info on how much is interchangeable, other than it's obviously the same design.

Michael, did you do your testing with the plunger installed and moving correctly?  a coil will draw too many amps and burn out without the correct "core". 

Edited April 8 by Benjamin

[MichaelU295]

9 hours ago, Benjamin said:

That relay looks suspiciously like the solenoid on any direct drive Delco Remy starter that came on most Cat or Cummins engines up until gear reduction starters took over.  It's POSSIBLE that they re engineered the coil to be better suited to this purpose, but I bet they used stock parts and the pulse width modulation allows the intermittent coil to function continuously.  Regardless of the coil, the contact end is the same, and looks like the Big Boy gets dirtier than a starter solenoid, but doesn't get as worn down from arcing, so a Big Boy could be a convenient source of parts to get a Delco direct drive starter working in an emergency, or a replacement Delco solenoid could supply parts for a Big Boy rebuild if the plastic was cracked, or the copper bolts twisted off, possibly even replace the coil and all contact parts by swapping the plunger, but I won't promise that.  I haven't found any info on how much is interchangeable, other than it's obviously the same design.

Michael, did you do your testing with the plunger installed and moving correctly?  a coil will draw too many amps and burn out without the correct "core". 

Hi Benjamin,

Yes, my plunger is moving freely.  The coil resistant is only measured 1 ohm and drew 18 Amp of current.  It stripped the circuit breaker (10A) next to it.  I ordered one from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0792CR47G?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details. 

10 hours ago, MHRookie said:

I second looking at this if/when you need to replace existing parts.  Installing the bluesea unit also allows you to change to a more affordable alternator when/if your Leece Neville fails (to a 28si alternator).  

Hi Kurt,

This may be a new topic regarding Leece Neville alternator.  Please share your info.  My alternator 4884JB ate belts like every 500 miles.  I'm not sure if my PTO pulley (Cummins ISM500) or my alternator is the culprit. I'm considering rebuild my alternator too.  Please also share if you have info about rebuild kit.

[MHRookie]

1 hour ago, MichaelU295 said:

Hi Benjamin,

Yes, my plunger is moving freely.  The coil resistant is only measured 1 ohm and drew 18 Amp of current.  It stripped the circuit breaker (10A) next to it.  I ordered one from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0792CR47G?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details. 

Hi Kurt,

This may be a new topic regarding Leece Neville alternator.  Please share your info.  My alternator 4884JB ate belts like every 500 miles.  I'm not sure if my PTO pulley (Cummins ISM500) or my alternator is the culprit. I'm considering rebuild my alternator too.  Please also share if you have info about rebuild kit.

Sent you a PM but one other note.  I would not hesitate getting a replacement ALT from AJ’s electric under $500 last I checked.

[Benjamin]

Michael, I was confusing your boost solenoid with the big boy system because I wasn't focused on your system.  That intermittent duty solenoid should work fine for a boost solenoid replacement with intermittent use. 

You can use a Delco 28SI with the duvac system required with the diode based isolator (the red or blue one with an extruded aluminum housing and three big terminals), as all 28SI's have a remote sense terminal, optional on 22 and 24SI's.  Or replacing the diode isolator as suggested is worthwhile also, but not needed to use a delco alternator.

The belts issue could be a lot of things. Spin the alternator with the belt removed, it should be obvious if there's anything wrong with the alternator or pulley.  Same with the crankshaft pulley, that should spin true with the engine running and no belt installed.  Weird things can happen with a failed harmonic balancer or bent crankshaft, but we'll just not think about that for now.  The tensioner is the easiest fix, and possibly the most likely issue, spin that by hand feeling for any roughness or play.  Same with the water pump and fan drive.  The water pump will usually leak before destroying the belt, but you want to check that especially due to the importance of the water pump. 

[MichaelU295]

Thank you so much Kurt and Benjamin!