ECM on a monaco diplomat

[chris timms]

Hi , we have got to replace our ECM on our MONACO  DIPLOMAT  we are in need of chassis parameters for the additional info input on the ECM 

Monaco REV have said they no longer hold that information , so we are really hoping that there maybe some one with the info  for the ECM of a Monaco Diplomat 2003 (2002)manufactured that might help us out or point us in the right direction , we will have cummins put the engine parameters on the new unit but need the other information relating to (tyres axles) that would have been put on once the coach had been built  , we are hoping to get it sorted for the childrens holidays , would appreciate any guidance

Chris & Michelle

[Ivan K]

Chris, if all they need is tires and axle ratio, it should be very easy. The axle gear is (should be) listed on your parts list somewhere in the coach or worst case on the axle plate. Mine is 4.33 for instance. The tire rotations per mile you can find in your tire manufacturers table for your specific drive axle tires. Just in case no one has the info handy...

[Brett63]

Chris, contact a company called GOECM (absolutely best price I could find) and give them you ESN# and VIN#. Your ESN can be found on your engine data plate. You don't have to buy from the company I referenced but regardless of where you purchas your ECM you will absolutely have to have these two numbers.

BTW, I just had to order a new ECM 2 days ago for mine, so I am 100% sure of what I speak.

As a reference, this is my data plate(partial) the top number is your ESN. in this case mine is 79294199

[chris timms]

2 hours ago, Brett63 said:

Chris, contact a company called GOECM (absolutely best price I could find) and give them you ESN# and VIN#. Your ESN can be found on your engine data plate. You don't have to buy from the company I referenced but regardless of where you purchas your ECM you will absolutely have to have these two numbers.

BTW, I just had to order a new ECM 2 days ago for mine, so I am 100% sure of what I speak.

As a reference, this is my data plate(partial) the top number is your ESN. in this case mine is 79294199

cheers , will try them thanks, for the feed back

2 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Chris, if all they need is tires and axle ratio, it should be very easy. The axle gear is (should be) listed on your parts list somewhere in the coach or worst case on the axle plate. Mine is 4.33 for instance. The tire rotations per mile you can find in your tire manufacturers table for your specific drive axle tires. Just in case no one has the info handy...

 

[chris timms]

Thanks Ivan, when i say( axles and tyre size) parameters , im not sure what other features / parameters are needed that Monaco would of added for the chassis size  onto the ECM after the engine was installed , Monaco forwarded me the only details they had for the ECU #   00193    Cal #29538022

ill try cummins tomorrow to see if that number is any use 

Cheers

[Brett63]

14 minutes ago, chris timms said:

Thanks Ivan, when i say( axles and tyre size) parameters , im not sure what other features / parameters are needed that Monaco would of added for the chassis size  onto the ECM after the engine was installed , Monaco forwarded me the only details they had for the ECU #   00193    Cal #29538022

ill try cummins tomorrow to see if that number is any use 

Cheers

You have to have your ESN and VIN. There are tons of calibrations in the ECM. 

\

[Tom Cherry]

35 minutes ago, chris timms said:

Thanks Ivan, when i say( axles and tyre size) parameters , im not sure what other features / parameters are needed that Monaco would of added for the chassis size  onto the ECM after the engine was installed , Monaco forwarded me the only details they had for the ECU #   00193    Cal #29538022

ill try cummins tomorrow to see if that number is any use 

Cheers

Update, based on going down this path in 2020 for a buddy’s 08 Navigator.  There is a feces pot full load of “parameters” in the ECM that must be MANUALLY input.  Frank McElroy just verified this and he is one of our top electronics resources and has all the diagnostic software and tinkered with mine and copied it.

The ECM can not be “flashed” or electronically programmed…Cummins and the Feds locked that up.

Your engine, per the brochure is an ISC.  Frank does not, in his files, have a printout or a copy of the program.  The tire size and axle ratio is on the 2003 Monaco Brochure that I pulled….

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1469133497_brc_pdf.pdf

Monaco had to input the specifics of your Tranny.  Frank read off a bunch of the line items such as tail shaft teeth and the shift point and the gear down profile and such.  He says, odds are the tech will hopefully have a boiler plate Allison tranny list or have to call Allison and chase it down.  But the TCM info as to speeds and shift points were NOT developed nor supplied by Allison,…they were a Monaco set of numbers and Monaco had a third party program the TCM a and put it in.  I can vouch for that as I tried to use my TCM serial number and get them from Allison  early on.  NOPE.  No have.  Manufacturer supplied…we and Cummins approve.

MAYBE it will drive OK, and be close.  Our best comment or advice.  

Find someone here and see if they will take in their MH to a Cummins Service location for a Diagnostic test and PRINT OUT.  They will be provided with an electronic, and hopefully, LONG, copy of the program.  THEN, the tech, with hopefully A laptop and his Insight reader, will go through the program and check and correct the parameters.  Yes….you can look up tire sizes and revs per mile.  That is the easy part.  This is exactly what Frank and I did with the tech on my Buddy’s, so,this ain’t our first rodeo.  His was perfect.  He has driven it almost 10 K with the refurbished ECM and nary a hiccup nor “gee….it didn’t USED to do that”….he is in route to Alaska as I type.  Typically , there is a one hour shop charge for the diagnostic and the owner will get all the error codes and can have them cleared and know exactly the condition of the engine.  If you pay for it, that is a real Win-Win.

Do NOT know if any of the other members that have the Insight software have downloaded and kept one specifically for the 2003 Dip ISC.  The other option, buy a used one.  BUT, it MUST specifically come from a 2003 DIP…and verify that it had the ISC (only one listed) and that the ECM can be READ and Programmed and will work….with some type of guarantee.  As to the calibration, Cummins has that info, I believe, in their files, so the tech will get one, new or refurbished, that will work.  The missing info is all the Monaco supplied and inputted parameters.

Thats the gist of it.  Frank was tied up on a home repair so I called to verify and make sure that my generic post was correct. Good luck….

 

 

[Ivan K]

Tom, can you elaborate on this a bit? Just trying to understand it. 

"The ECM can not be “flashed” or electronically programmed…Cummins and the Feds locked that up."

Thanks

[Brett63]

If you have your ESN and VIN and provide that to either cummins or a shop that refurbs they can put an ECM to exactly what it was when Monaco sold the coach. IF you had other flashes or tuners or whatever installed over the years it will not replace those.  If you call Cummins and order a new ECM you have to provide them your ESN and VIN so they can program it to exactly what your coach was when it was sold. If your ECM is bad or failed there is nothing to download and copy. In my case, I have had other programs put in my ECM. I have to have the refub location flash my new ECM to what my coach was when brand new (per the ESN and VIN) and then I have to have the shop that did my other tunes flash it with their stored files. That will take it to exactly what it was prior to failure. 

Tom, the stock ECM can absolutely be flashed and or programmed. They are not locked. If they were locked then how would millions of truck owners flash HP tunes or economy tunes. 

[Tom Cherry]

14 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Tom, can you elaborate on this a bit? Just trying to understand it. 

"The ECM can not be “flashed” or electronically programmed…Cummins and the Feds locked that up."

Thanks

Per Frank, the ECM comes with the Cummins parameters locked in.  Those are like the "Grayed Out" items in some apps or programs. If you could get into the ECM and reflash an older program, say one 10 years ago, then the mileage would reflect that version.  Thus, to protect from mileage tampering, I assumed, you can NOT just take an Electronic copy and then copy it over and overwrite the ECM's info.

There are many, very many....and the newer the more....think the Chassis Multiplex system..... parameters that are in the "lines or the sections" of the ECM program. You need a hard copy and have to manually input those in...or that is how Frank's Insight works.

I sound WAY to knowledgeable.  But, Frank has a 2008 Dynasty with the ISL425 "Standard" engine. I have a 2009 Camelot with the same basic engine, except mine is the REAL or stock engine that has the VGT where his has the VGT that works in conjunction with the Jacob (intake valve system) 2 stage Jake Brake.  His also has a bunch of Multiplexed switches and controls.  He says that his CPU Multiplexed "interface" has more lines or more parameters specified or used than mine.  So his ECM program is way more complex. I only have the Lighting Multiplex and all my dash switches are "hard" switches and not "Multiplexed" like his.  

For example, there is a Tranny Disconnect that if the MH is going more than say 5 MPH, the solid white Visor (I call it a SHADE) will not work. I have to shift into N and then reposition the shade to fake out the ECM or the interface. Frank's Shade switch is a Multiplexed, so I ASSUMED that the interface has to come from the CPU or is tied into the CPU.  Anyway...he said that the 2003 was way simpler than mine....but it still had a lot of parameters or lines or sections that required numberical or YES or NO or whatever. That is what the Tech had to do with my Buddy's....he spent almost an hour going through the new (refurb) ECM and typing in the various lines or specs or whatever.  He ended up, then, making it exactly like the ECM that blew up.  

Frank also elaborated and said that the upper ends and the Multiplexed Chassis models were more complex or longer than his.

Hope that makes sense.  I DID think that you could just flash or reprogram the new ECM and it would be good to go, but the Federal Anti-Odometer tampering laws...and probably some liability issues for Cummins prevented that.

For a more precise explantion.....PM Dr. Frank....  LOL.  What this man knows?  

Coincidentally, we had discussed (I asked....he answered) getting a USED ECM and putting it in. He actually DOES have a used ECM for his. We talked about that. The NEW or USED ECM would be interesting.  I know for a fact that only a GM dealer can install a NEW ECM and has to have certain codes. I was told that in the later years, a junkyard, GOOD WORKING, ECM (Cadillac for example) could NOT be installed....even by a dealer as the VIN was "permentally" EMBEDDED...and even Dealers could not change. Don't know how an aftermarket ECM would work....

Anyway...back on point. The Odometer will reflect or show the ECM Mileage of the Unit it came from. BUT, you dash (Medallion in our cases) will be different.  ONLY a sharp Cummins Tech would pick that up.  You can NOT change the Medallion number and if you order a new PCB (there are 3 of them), then Medallion has to have verification of the mileage....like from the ECM.

Isn't this all cutesy.....?

[Tom Cherry]

22 minutes ago, Brett63 said:

If you have your ESN and VIN and provide that to either cummins or a shop that refurbs they can put an ECM to exactly what it was when Monaco sold the coach. IF you had other flashes or tuners or whatever installed over the years it will not replace those.  If you call Cummins and order a new ECM you have to provide them your ESN and VIN so they can program it to exactly what your coach was when it was sold. If your ECM is bad or failed there is nothing to download and copy. In my case, I have had other programs put in my ECM. I have to have the refub location flash my new ECM to what my coach was when brand new (per the ESN and VIN) and then I have to have the shop that did my other tunes flash it with their stored files. That will take it to exactly what it was prior to failure. 

Tom, the stock ECM can absolutely be flashed and or programmed. They are not locked. If they were locked then how would millions of truck owners flash HP tunes or economy tunes. 

Brett,

I am not going to argue this.  If I stated this wrong, then Frank will have to correct. He told me POINT BLANK that you could NOT copy a program direct. NOW...if the shop or service has an Electronic Copy of the ECM, then, as a certified refurbisher, they can probably copy it in.  Remember, Frank is working from the InSight Program...which is all Cummins has and is allowed, by Federal Emissions Standards, to use. YES, I know that you can have your ECM's "Rechipped".  YES....there are zillions of tuners.  BUT, they HAVE to have the CUMMINS "added after the fact" parameters to make it work 100%.  I have gone down this path on several engines and in the long run...backed out.  WHY?  This is OK if the Engine is out of Factory Warranty or if you don't care. When there is a failure, the FIRST thing the Dealer (GM or Ford or whomever) does is to COPY the ECM Program....then they have a quick...COMPARE TO ORIGINAL.  If that comes up with a RED ALERT....Buddy, you ain't GOT no WARRANTY....that will be $300 for the diagnostics and the comparison.  Now you want it fixed....?   

I DO know, without fear of contradiction, that the Tech in Orlando in 2020 could NOT copy anything over. He was a Cummins Certified Tech. He brought out a "Shop Demo" ECM.  Put it in and ran the diagnostics to make sure that all was "happy" with the rest of the electronics and the sensors and such....he even started the engine.

That PROVED or verified that the Engine was OK. This was NOT the exact emission or specific one for that year nor that engine.  It was one that was a "test" or trouble shooting one...so that they did not have to unpack or order the unit. Once it passed the "OK...I'm fine....just had a Brain Gas Expulsion...test", then the shop had overnighted or maybe they had it in stock the EXACT Refurb ECM. The Tech had already alerted by buddy and Frank had that in his inbox while he he installed the new unit.  I was on the phone to him going over the parameter questions that he needed when Frank texted that he had it.  Then he got it and started to manually input the parameters....I got off the line. I THINK he had to talk to Frank one more time to sort out something that didn't make sense to him.

OK....that is real world....as of March 2020.  NOW...as to this service having an EXACT COPY of the ECM that you need.  I have some "concerns". If that is so, then why would Cummins have needed the Monaco parameters. YES, if you have a bad ECM, that can STILL be read...then you have the list of manually inputted items. BUT, unless the third party that did the final ECM programming for Monaco....then you are STILL missing the "Manufacturer Provided Custom or Parameters.

HEY...if these guys are that good, GREAT.  BUT, what I suspect is that they get the "Cummins Hard Parameters" from the original ECN SN. They SHOULD, by Law, have to input the mileage to comply with the Anti-Tampering rules.  SO, then they can reflash any good USED or rebuilt ECM.  BUT, they, IMHO, have no way of knowing or putting in the Manufacturer Supplied Parameters.

That's my thoughts....request that you, since I am a Moderator,  take this offline and PM Frank direct...or call him. He KNOWS of which he speaks and he said that ONLY a copy of the ENTIRE ECM....with all the Monaco Factory Supplied Parameters would work...  And that you could NOT, with his Cummins Insight Software Flash or Copy or change the NEW (or Refurb) ECM.  This is not something of interest to but a few and does not help the OP>.

Thanks,

[Brett63]

Tom, with all of that said, then I guess when I get my new ECM all programmed to my coach it won't work....At least that is what you are saying. Engine hours, odo and a few other things IF they can be retrieved from your old ECM have to be manually entered in the new ECM. IF they cannot be retrieved from the old ECM then yes, the new ECM and those types of items would not match and if sold that discrepancy would have to be noted. By your info if you were to have, say a light engine fire but one that took out the harness and ECM, and you had to replace those items by your info that is not possible. I am not arguing at all and most everything you reference is correct, BTW Dr Frank is my mentor.....lol I have an 09 Sig with a chassis multiplex system, so I am the most crazy and unsimple system of all. I should have my new ECM by weeks end next week and I am assured by the shop that I will be able to plug it in and it will be exact to the bad one currently installed. I cannot pull any info on the medallion as my ECM will not communicate with anything including Bendix or Insight.

Tom, ok, now we are getting somewhere....lol Yes you are 100% correct, you nor I can program an ECM even with Insight. I have that program as well. You are correct that Cummins has the "password" for their stuff. BUT a certified refurbisher has bought the rights to that or however they do it. This is why the refurbisher has to return my new ECM to stock before it goes to the shop to get my tunes installed. The shop cannot simply put their tunes in an empty ECM as it would be missing everything Cummins. Cummins cannot simply put in an ISL or ISM or ISX factory tune without knowing what Monaco set as their perameters. This is where the ESN and the VIN come in. That makes it uniquely yours to your coach. 

[Tom Cherry]

12 minutes ago, Brett63 said:

Tom, with all of that said, then I guess when I get my new ECM all programmed to my coach it won't work....At least that is what you are saying. Engine hours, odo and a few other things IF they can be retrieved from your old ECM have to be manually entered in the new ECM. IF they cannot be retrieved from the old ECM then yes, the new ECM and those types of items would not match and if sold that discrepancy would have to be noted. By your info if you were to have, say a light engine fire but one that took out the harness and ECM, and you had to replace those items by your info that is not possible. I am not arguing at all and most everything you reference is correct, BTW Dr Frank is my mentor.....lol I have an 09 Sig with a chassis multiplex system, so I am the most crazy and unsimple system of all. I should have my new ECM by weeks end next week and I am assured by the shop that I will be able to plug it in and it will be exact to the bad one currently installed. I cannot pull any info on the medallion as my ECM will not communicate with anything including Bendix or Insight.

Tom, ok, now we are getting somewhere....lol Yes you are 100% correct, you nor I can program an ECM even with Insight. I have that program as well. You are correct that Cummins has the "password" for their stuff. BUT a certified refurbisher has bought the rights to that or however they do it. This is why the refurbisher has to return my new ECM to stock before it goes to the shop to get my tunes installed. The shop cannot simply put their tunes in an empty ECM as it would be missing everything Cummins. Cummins cannot simply put in an ISL or ISM or ISX factory tune without knowing what Monaco set as their perameters. This is where the ESN and the VIN come in. That makes it uniquely yours to your coach. 

As they say in the halls of Congress.... I BELIEVE we have Consensus.  Thanks...Good Luck...

[Brett63]

7 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

As they say in the halls of Congress.... I BELIEVE we have Consensus.  Thanks...Good Luck...

Oh I would like to think we are much better than Congress...lol Have a great evening fellow Monacoer

 

[Grampy OG]

Where the heck is the plate with the ECM numbers and where is the ECM approximately located? 

This sounds to me like one opportunity that I would like to get on top of before a problem arises. It never ceases to amaze me what we do to keep these old birds on the road. This whole subject has never even crossed my mind but something as important as this is not an item I will backburner waiting for the problem to find my solutions.

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago (way less serious) just trying to replace my oil dipstick. NO Monaco - Cummins shaking their heads and saying NOT OUR PART. What the heck I thought back then. You manufacture an engine but did not put a dip stick in? Sheez

Ken

 

[chris timms]

14 hours ago, Brett63 said:

Oh I would like to think we are much better than Congress...lol Have a great evening fellow Monacoer

 

Thanks for all of the insight ,

am i taking it that the specifics parameters and features have been updated to cummins after the coach was built and cummins hold that information as well as the calibration 29538022 for the ECM 3944125 

as here in the Uk cummins haven't asked for the VIN number just the engine number , which wouldn't connect to the correct information to the vehicle and i guess would only give the details of the engine and not the other stuff i need , am i missing anything ?  

it appears that  cummins operate different in the USA to the UK , should i be in contact with Cummins US

[chris timms]

Also i should of sent the ECM of to GEOCM i'm sure i would of had a better out come than the two locations here in the uk , its now at a place that says they can retrieve /copy the information in hexidecimal format not sure what use that is if we are unable to view the input information to then relay it manually to the RX ECM from cummins,  who are coming out Wednesday to fit and trouble shoot currently only the engine calibration information available and not the other stuff 

i guess i really do need the print out from a 2003 Diplomat if cummins haven't got the full information in their data base

[chris timms]

58 minutes ago, Grampy OG said:

Where the heck is the plate with the ECM numbers and where is the ECM approximately located? 

This sounds to me like one opportunity that I would like to get on top of before a problem arises. It never ceases to amaze me what we do to keep these old birds on the road. This whole subject has never even crossed my mind but something as important as this is not an item I will backburner waiting for the problem to find my solutions.

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago (way less serious) just trying to replace my oil dipstick. NO Monaco - Cummins shaking their heads and saying NOT OUR PART. What the heck I thought back then. You manufacture an engine but did not put a dip stick in? Sheez

Ken

 

Hi Ken , there is a metal plate with the numbers on that is glued onto the ECM located on the right side of the engine looking from the rear , its behind the filter with connector wires going into the unit , bit of a bugger to get to , information of engine number also on the cam belt housing ,

metal plate again although mine was mostly unreadable due to corrosion  , 

chris 

[Ivan K]

Unless the coach was serviced by cummins in the past and a tech cared to save the image to their corporate storage, I doubt they have yours from Monaco. We have been through this before. Anyone can get the calibration file and make the engine work but an image needs to be converted to template and sent to the ECM on top of the calibration to make the custom settings work. This is why it is a good practice to have one saved. Some parameters are obvious, many are not, at least to me. Good thing is that you likely have no fancy multiplex system to make it even harder. They will get you running with the calibration and if they can still read the custom  info directly from eprom, even better. I think thats what you are talking about. Fingers crossed.

[Brett63]

6 hours ago, Grampy OG said:

Where the heck is the plate with the ECM numbers and where is the ECM approximately located? 

This sounds to me like one opportunity that I would like to get on top of before a problem arises. It never ceases to amaze me what we do to keep these old birds on the road. This whole subject has never even crossed my mind but something as important as this is not an item I will backburner waiting for the problem to find my solutions.

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago (way less serious) just trying to replace my oil dipstick. NO Monaco - Cummins shaking their heads and saying NOT OUR PART. What the heck I thought back then. You manufacture an engine but did not put a dip stick in? Sheez

Ken

 

Should be on the valve cover on the passenger side at the front of the engine. (would be the rear in a pusher) I could see mine but not read it, so I just used my phone and turned the flash on and took a picture.

 

[chris timms]

18 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Unless the coach was serviced by cummins in the past and a tech cared to save the image to their corporate storage, I doubt they have yours from Monaco. We have been through this before. Anyone can get the calibration file and make the engine work but an image needs to be converted to template and sent to the ECM on top of the calibration to make the custom settings work. This is why it is a good practice to have one saved. Some parameters are obvious, many are not, at least to me. Good thing is that you likely have no fancy multiplex system to make it even harder. They will get you running with the calibration and if they can still read the custom  info directly from eprom, even better. I think thats what you are talking about. Fingers crossed.

thanks Ivan ,

i'm understanding now that there is little chance of getting the information i need unless i can get any help from a 2003 Diplomat owner who already has the saved file that they wouldn't mind sharing with me . are there any other forums that might be worth asking that question ?

[Tom Cherry]

15 minutes ago, chris timms said:

thanks Ivan ,

i'm understanding now that there is little chance of getting the information i need unless i can get any help from a 2003 Diplomat owner who already has the saved file that they wouldn't mind sharing with me . are there any other forums that might be worth asking that question ?

Not Ivan, but will add this.

First, yes....you need a copy of a 2003 Diplomat ECM program....either a printout or a PDF or whatever electronic copy that has been downloaded from the ECM for their coach. That might seem daunting, but in reality, you need to establish a relationship with another owner that will assist you. The procedure to get a copy is simple. Take the MH in for a Cummins Diagnostics Check. They will download the program....and have or keep a copy on file. Most Cummins dealers will copy that to a thumb drive for the owner. Then Cummins will advise the owner of any issues. There is usually a one time shop labor hour for this. You can PAY for that.  The owner will get a copy and you will have one.  It is a WIN-WIN. You never can tell....someone may have one and NOT seen this thread.

Second.... If you find a REPUTABLE Salvage yard that has a WORKING, FOR SALE, ECM WITH A GUARANTEE, then that MIGHT be a good place.  Again, deal with reputable shops.

Third....You can purchase a Refurbished (best value) ECM from Cummins....have it installed. The engine will run and the "BUSS" system should read all the correct info. The Tech can then do what he can and add in the Rear Axle and the tire sizes. The original ECM was programmed with Goodyear Tire data. Any brand of the same size tire will have a spec sheet on their website. All you need is the REVOLUTIONS per MILE for your tire size...brand is NOT that picky. If you had the original GY's I think that I have an old file on them, and could possibly look that up.

That leaves the "Transmission" info. NOW MAYBE this will work. Get your Transmission SN. Call Allison. The one piece of info that seemed to be, when I talked to Frank, POTENTIALLY the most critical and your ECM may NEVER have had it in there....or it might have...we have NO WAY TO VERIFY...find out the tail shaft teeth count.

The REST of the Transmission info deals with the shift patterns and the downshift. A GOOD Allison service shop and/or a good Cummins shop should be able to help you. Frank said that he THOUGHT....again this was our discussion...that a Cummins Tech might have a boiler plate profile for the Allison.

Call Allison and ask them.  

That is about it.....  Ivan and Brett or Frank will have to chime in to embellish or correct the above, but that is my understanding.

This may be a lot of worry over nothing....and if the Cummins Tech says...Hey, no problem, then you go with that. 

Wish it was more cut and dry, but it isn't

You MIGHT put out a HELP in the General Discussion and ask for a 2003 Diplomat Owner to contact you via the PM....keep it simple...

Now, it is a crap shoot to find any better Monaco INFO out there than here. Not puffing up our site, but the IRV2 or other  sites that get into the ECM'[s and have electrical knowledge are few and far between. I tried for a month to chase down info on relay locations and folks had posted glowing reports of how they found and fixed them. One member in our database is listed...but he does not respond to emails nor the IRV2 PM system.

That's about the size of it....

[chris timms]

On 7/21/2022 at 10:47 PM, Tom Cherry said:

Update, based on going down this path in 2020 for a buddy’s 08 Navigator.  There is a feces pot full load of “parameters” in the ECM that must be MANUALLY input.  Frank McElroy just verified this and he is one of our top electronics resources and has all the diagnostic software and tinkered with mine and copied it.

The ECM can not be “flashed” or electronically programmed…Cummins and the Feds locked that up.

Your engine, per the brochure is an ISC.  Frank does not, in his files, have a printout or a copy of the program.  The tire size and axle ratio is on the 2003 Monaco Brochure that I pulled….

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1469133497_brc_pdf.pdf

Monaco had to input the specifics of your Tranny.  Frank read off a bunch of the line items such as tail shaft teeth and the shift point and the gear down profile and such.  He says, odds are the tech will hopefully have a boiler plate Allison tranny list or have to call Allison and chase it down.  But the TCM info as to speeds and shift points were NOT developed nor supplied by Allison,…they were a Monaco set of numbers and Monaco had a third party program the TCM a and put it in.  I can vouch for that as I tried to use my TCM serial number and get them from Allison  early on.  NOPE.  No have.  Manufacturer supplied…we and Cummins approve.

MAYBE it will drive OK, and be close.  Our best comment or advice.  

Find someone here and see if they will take in their MH to a Cummins Service location for a Diagnostic test and PRINT OUT.  They will be provided with an electronic, and hopefully, LONG, copy of the program.  THEN, the tech, with hopefully A laptop and his Insight reader, will go through the program and check and correct the parameters.  Yes….you can look up tire sizes and revs per mile.  That is the easy part.  This is exactly what Frank and I did with the tech on my Buddy’s, so,this ain’t our first rodeo.  His was perfect.  He has driven it almost 10 K with the refurbished ECM and nary a hiccup nor “gee….it didn’t USED to do that”….he is in route to Alaska as I type.  Typically , there is a one hour shop charge for the diagnostic and the owner will get all the error codes and can have them cleared and know exactly the condition of the engine.  If you pay for it, that is a real Win-Win.

Do NOT know if any of the other members that have the Insight software have downloaded and kept one specifically for the 2003 Dip ISC.  The other option, buy a used one.  BUT, it MUST specifically come from a 2003 DIP…and verify that it had the ISC (only one listed) and that the ECM can be READ and Programmed and will work….with some type of guarantee.  As to the calibration, Cummins has that info, I believe, in their files, so the tech will get one, new or refurbished, that will work.  The missing info is all the Monaco supplied and inputted parameters.

Thats the gist of it.  Frank was tied up on a home repair so I called to verify and make sure that my generic post was correct. Good luck….

 

 

Thanks very much for the useful information , i'm understanding things clearer , it looks like i'm in need of obtaining the monaco diplomat inputted additional parameters from another 2003 owner , can you advise on how i should  find /ask this request  to get the best positive  outcome back in the shortest time possible

many thanks Chris (Bromsgrove England)

18 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Not Ivan, but will add this.

First, yes....you need a copy of a 2003 Diplomat ECM program....either a printout or a PDF or whatever electronic copy that has been downloaded from the ECM for their coach. That might seem daunting, but in reality, you need to establish a relationship with another owner that will assist you. The procedure to get a copy is simple. Take the MH in for a Cummins Diagnostics Check. They will download the program....and have or keep a copy on file. Most Cummins dealers will copy that to a thumb drive for the owner. Then Cummins will advise the owner of any issues. There is usually a one time shop labor hour for this. You can PAY for that.  The owner will get a copy and you will have one.  It is a WIN-WIN. You never can tell....someone may have one and NOT seen this thread.

Second.... If you find a REPUTABLE Salvage yard that has a WORKING, FOR SALE, ECM WITH A GUARANTEE, then that MIGHT be a good place.  Again, deal with reputable shops.

Third....You can purchase a Refurbished (best value) ECM from Cummins....have it installed. The engine will run and the "BUSS" system should read all the correct info. The Tech can then do what he can and add in the Rear Axle and the tire sizes. The original ECM was programmed with Goodyear Tire data. Any brand of the same size tire will have a spec sheet on their website. All you need is the REVOLUTIONS per MILE for your tire size...brand is NOT that picky. If you had the original GY's I think that I have an old file on them, and could possibly look that up.

That leaves the "Transmission" info. NOW MAYBE this will work. Get your Transmission SN. Call Allison. The one piece of info that seemed to be, when I talked to Frank, POTENTIALLY the most critical and your ECM may NEVER have had it in there....or it might have...we have NO WAY TO VERIFY...find out the tail shaft teeth count.

The REST of the Transmission info deals with the shift patterns and the downshift. A GOOD Allison service shop and/or a good Cummins shop should be able to help you. Frank said that he THOUGHT....again this was our discussion...that a Cummins Tech might have a boiler plate profile for the Allison.

Call Allison and ask them.  

That is about it.....  Ivan and Brett or Frank will have to chime in to embellish or correct the above, but that is my understanding.

This may be a lot of worry over nothing....and if the Cummins Tech says...Hey, no problem, then you go with that. 

Wish it was more cut and dry, but it isn't

You MIGHT put out a HELP in the General Discussion and ask for a 2003 Diplomat Owner to contact you via the PM....keep it simple...

Now, it is a crap shoot to find any better Monaco INFO out there than here. Not puffing up our site, but the IRV2 or other  sites that get into the ECM'[s and have electrical knowledge are few and far between. I tried for a month to chase down info on relay locations and folks had posted glowing reports of how they found and fixed them. One member in our database is listed...but he does not respond to emails nor the IRV2 PM system.

That's about the size of it....

Thanks Tom , you have been more than helpful ,much appreciated 

Chris 

[Grampy OG]

Sorry this is a new one for me so I need to pose this question. If everything seems to be OK with my coach could I go into Cummins preemptively and have the data downloaded and copied to files to be saved in case of future problems? If I am understanding it is probably an hour or so of labor which would be money well spent. 

 

Thanks Ken

 

 

 

 

 

[Ivan K]

33 minutes ago, Grampy OG said:

Sorry this is a new one for me so I need to pose this question. If everything seems to be OK with my coach could I go into Cummins preemptively and have the data downloaded and copied to files to be saved in case of future problems? If I am understanding it is probably an hour or so of labor which would be money well spent. 

 

Thanks Ken

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn't even have to be a Cummins service. Any decent diesel shop would be able to do it in the parking lot. It takes me longer to boot the laptop than to get an image. My laptop is just as old Jim's but that is all I use it for.