Bill R Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 A very strange thing occurred today. The screw head for the lower angle mount of my passenger seat window valence had broken off. The remaining part of the screw was in the frame rail. I started to drill out the screw and once the bit penetrated through the frame rail, OMW, out came a stream of water. See pic below. There was about a pint of water that came out and eventually stopped. Here is my hypothesis. On the outside of the coach, the forward awning arm is mounted on this same frame rail. I suspect that water at some point entered the frame rail through a penetration for one of the awning hardware mounts. Upon initial inspection of the awing arm rail, there is nothing obvious. Also, I had the roof and all trim sealed about 1 year ago after my purchase. So what I don't know is if this water penetration is new or old? The coach is in covered storage, but will occasionally see rain when in use. There is no water damage to the wall or floor in that area. I know from the PO, that the awning had been changed out twice in the past three years. Once because the original was not working any longer, the second time because of wind damage shortly after. How long the coach was exposed during these change outs I have no idea. My plan is to put water on the coach's exterior around the awning arm and see if any water begins to flow again from that hole. If not, I am going to presume that this is water that has been standing in the frame rail from the past. Other thoughts, concerns and suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Wow, that is an interesting find, concerning too as you may not be the only one. I think that you are on the right track with suspected intrusion sources. My concern would be with finding the bottom of the vertical profile below or at the floor level and draining it completely. I have seen rectangular tubing expanding, as trying to become a round pipe when frozen in similar situations. That would certainly cause an ugly bulge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Byrd Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 You might want to check the Belt Line where the roof is fastened to the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 9 hours ago, Jim Byrd said: You might want to check the Belt Line where the roof is fastened to the side. X2 on this, the aluminum extrusion is held on to the side with screws, any water that might get into the upper beltline could find it's way into the tubing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 You will find broken screws on the upper beltline. The factory just used regular screws that rust and break. You will also find them on the lower beltline. I used #10 self-drilling SS screws, 5/16 hex head. You will need to grind down the end of the nut runner to fit between the bracket edges to get the screws totally in. I have replaced the screws in all 4 beltlines. I used every hole, not every other hole like the factory did. Gary 05 AMB DST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinvz Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 I agree with Jim re the belt line. Make sure the extrusion for the awning is sealed on top. If needed caulk it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 I had a belt line leak, when I got into it I found that a number of the screws had rusted completely off. The water got behind the exterior panel and caused delamination but it also migrated all the way to the back and down the belt line rusting out a lot of the screws going down that section. I used SS rivets, which I believe is one form of repair, SS screws would also work. After I did the repair I resealed all of the belt molding. Used long plastic scrapers I bought from Harbor Freight to remove all the old caulk, cleaned the area good, taped it and then applied a bead of Geocel, smoothing it it out and then removing the tape. Took several day and I had the benefit of working off a set of scaffolding in my garage where I could access all the way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted January 21, 2023 Author Share Posted January 21, 2023 Update: Thank you for all the responses. I did a thorough inspection of the beltline molding this morning, and it is in very good shape. Tight and sealed. The coach's roof, exterior and interior in this area are well sealed and show no signs of water intrusion. @Ivan Kposted a great picture above of the frame rails, and it is my understanding that these are solid tubes welded together. So it makes sense to me that this vertical frame rail is welded onto the lower horizontal frame rail and would hold water if it were to enter the vertical frame rail. I hope to over the next few days do a water test to see if water starts to come out again. @Ivan Kalso suggested it would be good to try and drain any water that may still be left in the frame rail below the hole. It would be quite a task to drill through the lower horizontal frame rail straight up to the vertical frame rail. I am thinking that I can just drill a small hole at the floor level from inside the coach and accomplish the same thing. It may not be exactly at the bottom but it is close. Plus an easy patch job with caulk and in a location that is not very visible. For now I do not think it is the beltline. But I reserve the right to come back and "eat my words" if it turns out so. Penetrations in the frame rail from awing hardware, past and present, is my current thinking. Please continue to post your ideas, thoughts and challenges. This is the best forum and thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Bill, assuming similarities with our all-steel construction, you would do good with draining it at the floor level from inside. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 21 hours ago, Ivan K said: Bill, assuming similarities with our all-steel construction, you would do good with draining it at the floor level from inside. Ivan, What were you doing that required removing the door frame? The more things that I hear and see here scare me. Gary 05 AMB DST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I also believe that the house framing on the 06 Windsor is aluminum, meaning at least you don't have to worry about corrosion or rust. Not sure how they mated the walls to the chassis though. My problem on the belt molding was at the rear of the coach where the rear cap mated to the roof, there was a hump and a gap where the aluminum extrusion went over the area. I suspect that when the coaches chassis/frame twisted it caused a separation of the seal allowing water to come it. if the coach was parked on an uneven surface and raining that allowed the water to come off the roof on the passenger side, it would low down the top of the belt molding and ultimately into the crack. I had previously checked my belt molding and didn't see a problem, I found this when I was repairing the delamination and had the belt molding and aluminum removed. Here is a picture, this is the seam where I think the water was coming in, the belt molding it above, I had it taped out of the way while I worked on the project. Once the water go into the belt molding it flowed all the say down the back along the extrusion, I had to replace a bunch of the screws that rusted off, I used SS rivets instead. When I put it back all together I made sure I had a good seal on this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said: Ivan, What were you doing that required removing the door frame? The more things that I hear and see here scare me. Gary 05 AMB DST Gary, nothing to scare you if you stay out of Nebraska :), this was a part of 27k collision repair that insurance agreed to pay me to do myself. I had to rebuild the stairwell as part of it and learned few things about the rig's construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Where was that pickup attempting to go 😕? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Where was that pickup attempting to go 😕? The pickup was waiting for me to pass and make a left turn when he was rear-ended with his wheels already turned and launched in front of me by a big farm truck. Poor guy got the worst of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I see that you had your favorite tank top on. LOL Gary 05 AMB DST 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said: I see that you had your favorite tank top on. LOL Gary 05 AMB DST LOL, good catch! The cheers pic was taken in a happier moment before the crash 😁! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: LOL, good catch! The cheers pic was taken in a happier moment before the crash 😁! Hehe, very true and I did not even notice myself. Got a whole set of my favorite summer outfit! Believe me, dress code was the last thing on my mind. To top it, police had us stay at a river park on the same road the pickup wanted to take. Only the park got flooded early next morning and we had to run and wait for the report at local Walmart. It was a Labor day weekend 5 years ago. At least I got the mirror temporarily welded at Johnny's welding in town to stay on the road for next 6 months. Fun memories now. Only hope that the pickup driver was fine, he was hurt and unconscious when they took him away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Guess you appreciate having a side view camera, that's not in the mirror, in a situation like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted January 24, 2023 Author Share Posted January 24, 2023 On 1/21/2023 at 11:16 AM, Ivan K said: you would do good with draining it at the floor level from inside. Update: Drilled a small hole from the inside today at the floor. Out came a stream of water. Cleaned and dried the area and went outside and saturated with water the side of the coach all around the front awning rail where the frame rail is located. No water came out of the hole inside. I have to think this is a previous event, who knows what, maybe when awing was removed prior is stayed like that for a few days during heavy rains storms in FL and water entered through existing mount holes that were left exposed. I don't know, only speculating. I am going to leave that bottom pilot hole open over the next several months and check on it when we have a rain event or whenever I wash the coach. Now I wonder if the same issue exists with the frame rail at the rear awning rail? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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