Trace to Xantrex Inverter Swap Out 2003 Windsor

[InGodWeTrust]

Has anyone swapped out Trace rv2012 for Xantrex sw3012 inverter? Seems straight forward the only hang ups I can foresee is old tracer had a 4/0 ground attached to inverter new 3012 does not have connection point. Second is getting AGS (auto gen set) properly configured to generator mainly the 20 point connecting wiring do colors on current Trace correspond to new 3012? Any help with this is greatly appreciated.  

[timaz996]

I haven't. But I did remove my 2012 and put in a Victron Multi Plus II.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, InGodWeTrust said:

Has anyone swapped out Trace rv2012 for Xantrex sw3012 inverter? Seems straight forward the only hang ups I can foresee is old tracer had a 4/0 ground attached to inverter new 3012 does not have connection point. Second is getting AGS (auto gen set) properly configured to generator mainly the 20 point connecting wiring do colors on current Trace correspond to new 3012? Any help with this is greatly appreciated.  

Many have switched to Magnum MS2012.  Several reasons…..better tech support is tops.  Second is that Magnum has a hard and soft reset so there are fewer reboot issues.  When working with folks that have the Xantrex or Trace, if there is an internal fault and the inverter will not start back up, there is no clear trouble shooting, where the Magnum has step by step fault codes and several ways to clear.  In addition, there is more Magnum knowledge here for member help.

regardless, you should have a new inverter, remote and BTS and install all 3.  The wiring for the AGS is simple and Nagnum will walk you through which wires go where.  Odds are you have what Magnum calls a “negative start”.  When I had a flaky AGS, they had me experiment and verify the wiring and are super sharp.

if you look at the Magnum, be sure to understand how your system is configured with the Trace.  You need to have the print and know the inverter CB size and whether you have a sub panel or the outputs are direct fed.  Your old inverter and remote manual should have the schematics and the new one, Trace or Magnum must be configured or installed the same.

Good Luck.

[InGodWeTrust]

29 minutes ago, Tim-AZ said:

I haven't. But I did remove my 2012 and put in a Victron Multi Plus II.

Thanks Tim, looked at that option seemed like install would have been too involved with my limited knowledge.  I was looking for plug and play option and since Trace is now Xantrex thought this would be the best match but from what I'm told Magnum is a closer replacement. Anyhow, already purchase and looking to install tomorrow weather permitting (Little Rock, AR). Thanks for feedback

17 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Many have switched to Magnum MS2012.  Several reasons…..better tech support is tops.  Second is that Magnum has a hard and soft reset so there are fewer reboot issues.  When working with folks that have the Xantrex or Trace, if there is an internal fault and the inverter will not start back up, there is no clear trouble shooting, where the Magnum has step by step fault codes and several ways to clear.  In addition, there is more Magnum knowledge here for member help.

regardless, you should have a new inverter, remote and BTS and install all 3.  The wiring for the AGS is simple and Nagnum will walk you through which wires go where.  Odds are you have what Magnum calls a “negative start”.  When I had a flaky AGS, they had me experiment and verify the wiring and are super sharp.

if you look at the Magnum, be sure to understand how your system is configured with the Trace.  You need to have the print and know the inverter CB size and whether you have a sub panel or the outputs are direct fed.  Your old inverter and remote manual should have the schematics and the new one, Trace or Magnum must be configured or installed the same.

Good Luck.

Thanks Tom,

Wish I would have dug in further into adequate replacement. My first assumption was Trace now Xantrex that sw3012 would be the best option especially since dual in and out. I did purchase remote adapters for remote and AGS thought about combox but will have to wait and see if I really need that functionality. Where should 4/0 ground wire go with new 3012? I've seen some put this directly with negative connection. Thanks

 

[vito.a]

I've done a few inverter swaps, but it's all been Trace Freedom to Magnum.  Regardless, you have to install a new ground cable.  On all the coaches I've done there is a ground lug in the basement on the main frame rail back behind the inverter.  

I had to slightly modify the existing mounts for the new inverter to slide into.

You also need a new inside remote and a new AGS compatible with your Xantrex inverter.  I'm not certain on the Xantrex, but the new Magnums required I cut off the RJ11 terminal (telephone cord) and reverse the plug on one end.  Wiring the AGS was tough, but I used Magnum tech support.  The battery temperature sensors are different.  I routed a new battery temp sensor on one coach but this last one I didn't bother.  Glenn at Magnum support said it wasn't worth the effort.  

You also cannot max out the new 3000-watt inverter unless you install a new larger diameter positive cable back to the batteries and of course use a larger ground cable.  

Hope this helps.  

  

Edited March 12, 2023 by vito.a

[Viper04]

Went from the factory Trace/Zanex 2000W to the 3000 Pure Sinewave Mangum. 
This is on my 2000 Dynasty. Installed a 18Samsung French door counter depth fridge. 
 

Before the Mangum install, the wife could not blow dry her hair  and I run the coffee pot or microwave. Now-- can do all three without worrying about popping a breaker or a plug in fuse. One other point, ALL WHILE RUNNING BOTH ACs wide open on high settings AND the electric hot water turned on for the aqua hot. 
 

So far life is AWSOME with the 3000Mangum and no transfer switch issues. Replaced 2 with the old inverter. 
 

I believe the KEY is have the swap done by someone that REALLY KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. Took me 10 years because I am in a rural area in Tn but finally found THAT GUY. 

best of luck just my recommendation. 
 

Tim

[Frank Bergamo]

49 minutes ago, Viper04 said:

Before the Mangum install, the wife could not blow dry her hair  and I run the coffee pot or microwave. Now-- can do all three without worrying about popping a breaker or a plug in fuse. One other point, ALL WHILE RUNNING BOTH ACs wide open on high settings AND the electric hot water turned on for the aqua hot. 

How is that possible without being plugged in or generator running?

[Tom Cherry]

6 minutes ago, Frank Bergamo said:

How is that possible without being plugged in or generator running?

Simple.  The HVAC run off a dedicated 20 A CB. The through put of the inverter is based on the 30 Amp main breaker.  A 2000 Watt inverter will invert only 2000 watts or about 17 amps.  There are very few industrial strength hair dryers.  I have a 1500 watt heat gun and it would French fry your hair and scalp.  microwaves and coffee pots range from 1400 to 1800 watts.  Add in a 400 watt dryer….ON SHORE…and you’re fine.  Remember that the inverter can deliver 30 amps (input) so @ 120 VAC, 3600 WATTS.  Most 2000 watt (inverter output) will also have 3000 or maybe 3500 watts of direct shore power.

Thats how it works…look at the screen shot.  Easy to see why the swap to Magnum is the most popular.  The through put is 3300 watts and you have a very robust internal ATS - 30 AMPS.  Lower rated ATS will burn up and are non replaceable so the board is roast….as is usually the inverter.  
 

 

[tmw188]

You might try contacting PCS Electronics in Columbia MO. I hear they have good tech support. Take a look thru their website.

[wamcneil]

On 3/11/2023 at 5:42 PM, InGodWeTrust said:

Second is getting AGS (auto gen set) properly configured to generator mainly the 20 point connecting wiring do colors on current Trace correspond to new 3012? Any help with this is greatly appreciated.  

Mine originally had integrated AGS with trace/xantrex.  I’m not sure if the newer xantrex uses the same wiring as the old inverters with integrated AGS, but the Magnum AGS requires one more wire than original xantrex, (run sense). That wire wasn't in the harness leading to the inverter.
The gen start/stop cabling in the main wiring harness does have everything needed for the AGS, but monaco didn’t pull all of them over to the inverter.
After much digging and swearing I found a pigtail off of the main wiring harness for the AGS wiring. It was in the same compartment overhead as the inverter, but on the other side of the coach. 
The splice was illustrated on the Genset Remote Control page of my wiring diagram. But the diagram was wrong on the location of the splice

Cheers

Walter

[tmw188]

12 hours ago, tmw188 said:

You might try contacting PCS Electronics in Columbia MO. I hear they have good tech support. Take a look thru their website.

They are very knowledgeable here is a link. They could probably help you. This video isn’t necessarily specific to your question but does show their knowledge of these inverters.
https://youtu.be/Djzlm_FWF3w
 

Edited March 13, 2023 by tmw188

[InGodWeTrust]

13 minutes ago, tmw188 said:

They are very knowledgeable here is a link. They could probably help you. 
https://youtu.be/Djzlm_FWF3w
 

Thank you very informative. Wish they would continue producing more videos. 

So, started new sw3012 install yesterday, but ran into an issue on the AC side. What I found is two feeds coming from panel each is a 10 gauged 1 black (load) and 1 neutral, 1 ground. The problem I'm having is sw3012 on the incoming side 1 neutral, L1, and L2 and of course ground bus bar not sure what to do with L2 neutral anyone run into? This is how feeds came off old inverter. 

[wamcneil]

I'm surprised the SW3012 manual doesn't have wiring diagrams to address that. From the description, it sounds like the inputs are configured exactly like the picture posted of your original configuration. Am I missing something?

It sounds like you just need to run both neutrals to the single Neutral terminal exactly like your old configuration. The manual should tell you if the terminals are rated for double connections. If not, you may need to splice them together with a pigtail and then take that into the Neutral terminal.

Edit: I just looked up the manual for the SW3012. It looks like they assume everyone will have a single run of 3-conductor (with ground) cable, rather than two runs of 2-conductor (with ground) like we've got. You'll just need to combine the neutrals like in your original configuration.

Edited March 14, 2023 by wamcneil

[Tom Cherry]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:09 AM, InGodWeTrust said:

Thank you very informative. Wish they would continue producing more videos. 

So, started new sw3012 install yesterday, but ran into an issue on the AC side. What I found is two feeds coming from panel each is a 10 gauged 1 black (load) and 1 neutral, 1 ground. The problem I'm having is sw3012 on the incoming side 1 neutral, L1, and L2 and of course ground bus bar not sure what to do with L2 neutral anyone run into? This is how feeds came off old inverter. 

i opened the 2003 Windsor prints and the resolution was not clear enough.  however, i found the Camelot 2004 and the main panel looks the same. 

ReRead your post. if you have a single 30 A inverter breaker and you may have a downstream 120 VAC subpanel, probably with at least one GFCI, that is called a Single IN Dual OUT. the two #10 wires feed that sub panel.  if your new inverter doesn't support or doesn't take into account, that common configuration.....then i suggest you download the Magnum PS2012 or any of their inverters.  they explain in detail how a Single IN Dual OUT works and gives you a diagram. figure out how to revise or install your two subpanels safely.

You might call tech support on your new inverter and have them send you a print or tell you how...there are, if you read the magnum, many different configurations and tech support should be able to assist.  our original supported it and the most of the commonly used Magnums support them.  

[InGodWeTrust]

18 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

i opened the 2003 Windsor prints and the resolution was not clear enough.  however, i found the Camelot 2004 and the main panel looks the same. 

ReRead your post. if you have a single 30 A inverter breaker and you may have a downstream 120 VAC subpanel, probably with at least one GFCI, that is called a Single IN Dual OUT. the two #10 wires feed that sub panel.  if your new inverter doesn't support or doesn't take into account, that common configuration.....then i suggest you download the Magnum PS2012 or any of their inverters.  they explain in detail how a Single IN Dual OUT works and gives you a diagram. figure out how to revise or install your two subpanels safely.

You might call tech support on your new inverter and have them send you a print or tell you how...there are, if you read the magnum, many different configurations and tech support should be able to assist.  our original supported it and the most of the commonly used Magnums support them.  

Hi Tom,

Thanks for digging in further. I finally got it squared away apparently when I attached romex connector in all my effort wrangling 10ga wire I must have exposed wire from rubbing on casing so L2 was making contact with metal therefore shorting itself out. Whew glad surgeprotector kicked in. Again thanks for all your help greatly appreciated let me know if I can ever return the favor. 

 

Kind regards, 

Will

 

Update: Inverter confusion finally sorted out had some bare wire making contact causing the short. Thanks to everyone for your help and insights greatly appreciated. I will now be attempting to install AGS seems like old Trace only utilized gen run and gen start features so hopefully I can decipher all this.