Latest New RV Sales Figures

[throgmartin]

I know a lot of you do not get these industry updates so thought I would share this with all of you. Obviously, by what is shown in the article, the RV market for new units has dropped big time. I am not going to blame all of this on the economy but I personally feel that there are many things that are factoring into this big drop. 1.) The uncertainty of the economy. 2.) Interest rates making loans expensive 3.) The quality of the RV's being built. 4.) Current dealer inventories.

Something I feel is also happening is that the word is finally getting out to the general public ( new RV'ers ) that the manufacturers are building junk these days with a host of quality issues. Most of us seasoned RV'ers already knew this. The quality is pathetic, especially in towables. Which ever way you want to cut it, the drops are in shipments is significant. 

I am waiting for the report on used RV prices. I will post that once I get it.

The article: https://rv-pro.com/news/report-march-shipments-down-51-yoy/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=RVP_Daily&oly_enc_id=4235D9737501J9I

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, throgmartin said:

I know a lot of you do not get these industry updates so thought I would share this with all of you. Obviously, by what is shown in the article, the RV market for new units has dropped big time. I am not going to blame all of this on the economy but I personally feel that there are many things that are factoring into this big drop. 1.) The uncertainty of the economy. 2.) Interest rates making loans expensive 3.) The quality of the RV's being built. 4.) Current dealer inventories.

Something I feel is also happening is that the word is finally getting out to the general public ( new RV'ers ) that the manufacturers are building junk these days with a host of quality issues. Most of us seasoned RV'ers already knew this. The quality is pathetic, especially in towables. Which ever way you want to cut it, the drops are in shipments is significant. 

I am waiting for the report on used RV prices. I will post that once I get it.

The article: https://rv-pro.com/news/report-march-shipments-down-51-yoy/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=RVP_Daily&oly_enc_id=4235D9737501J9I

Good info.  Without going into the dynamics or discussing the economy and who and such....which might go down a path we don't want...  The articles I read totally agree with your synopsis.  I have also read several articles that state that new car dealer's inventories are back up to or close or maybe a smidge above where they were - PREPANDEMIC..

With the days gone of less than a 2% auto loan and sticker shock (I walked by a 2023 "V" Edition Caddy Escalade) that was $147K...)  I shot a picture and sent it to my wife...and she said.....BUY IT....we can't live without the refrigerator/freezer in the console.  This was the MSRP....and there were no Dealer Add On's like ceramic coating and special door edge guards and the other "fluff".  I should not be surprised....about a week ago, there was a Caddy CTS (last of the rear wheel drives) with a hopped up V8 instead of the standard V6.....and it had a MSRP of over $125K....  Again....a picture to my DW as she loves her V6 RWD ATS that will keep up with the 2000 C5 Vette that I had once....  Plus the CTS had at least 3 more inches of rear leg room....LOL....

It is oil and NC Safety Inspection time and my Yukon and other vehicles are cycling now so I have been in and out of the dealership lately...plus an IDIOT Check Engine Light on one.  These are vehicles in the service area and the showroom....and I just window shop until my DW gets there to pick me up....

This, with no offense to anyone in the car sales or used car business, is so over the top that I can't comprehend it.  If you watch the market....the REAL indicator, the S&P 500 has flatlined....or it has in the past few weeks and is showing more signs of deterioration. I would add...and it could be included in your blanket "Uncertainty" that the independent polls are showing an marked increase in fear of or already being in a recession....and that the "landing" and bounce back ain't necessarily gonna be soft....but hard and jarring....and folks are backing away from large dollar and 7 -9 year payments....

Folks spend for non essentials or lifetime "Wannees" ONLY when they have more disposable income....and that is fast vanishing...

 

[DavidL]

I think a larger impact then any perceived change of quality is that during Covid, there was a large pop of sales as that was one of the things one can do with their family.  This stole sales from today.

[JDCrow]

I’d throw in saturation. How many can you sell before those who want an RV have one? 
 

All those who ran to get an RV in the last two years now have to go back to work or send kids back to school, so the reality of an RV payment, or paying for storage will get old fast. Watch the used market become filled with units, that are $10,000s off the price of new. And you are all right, seasoned RV will not buy these knowing full well quality was down and inferior parts were used in construction. 
 

The RV industry is set for a big retraction, along with consolidation and or bankruptcy for some dealers and manufacturers.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by JDCrow
Spelling

[DavidL]

For as long as I have read RV forums, the sentiment is that "Quality is going down the crapper".  Hmmm, if that was the case, every year, they wouldn't even start or go down the block.

I think the larger issue is that people spend a lot of money on an RV (relative to their available funds) and expect / hope that it's "perfect".  And find out that nothing is perfect.  And then gripe about those issues on forums.

But Every RV has had it's issues.  They tend to move...2008 was the diesel emissions saga.  Multiplex control system infancy before that.  Slides before that.

And then there are the classics:  Fit and finish of woodwork.  Black tank sensor isn't accurate.  No one swept under the slides before delivering it.

The big issue is that RV market is relatively low volume so the build is mostly one off human.  And humans aren't as consistent as the auto robots.

Edited April 26, 2023 by DavidL

[JDCrow]

3 minutes ago, DavidL said:

For as long as I have read RV forums, the sentiment is that "Quality is going down the crapper".  Hmmm, if that was the case, every year, they wouldn't even start or go down the block.

I think the larger issue is that people spend a lot of money on an RV (relative to their available funds) and expect / hope that it's "perfect".  And find out that nothing is perfect.  And then gripe about those issues on forums.

But Every RV has had it's issues.  They tend to move...2008 was the diesel emissions saga.  Multiplex control system infancy before that.  Slides before that.

And then there are the classics:  Fit and finish of woodwork.  Black tank sensor isn't accurate.  No one swept under the slides before delivering it.

The big issue is that RV market is relatively low volume so the build is mostly one off human.  And humans aren't as consistent as the auto robots.

Yes, you are correct, but none of us have seen anything like the last 2 years. 
 

Here is a slight taste of what some are seeing. Personally my wife and I couldn’t believe what we saw when going through rvs last few shows 

 

https://youtu.be/zcZVFrAduEc

[throgmartin]

David, trust me when I say the quality issues are not limited to little things. I seen the pictures of a new towable delivered with black mold in the bedroom. It had a severe leak in the roof and the corner of the bedroom floor had rotted out. This mind you was brand new and was just delivered to a customer. I had a towable in here for repair. It was 2 years old and needed an entire new roof as the factory EPDM roof was blistered everywhere. Had a coach come in because he had slide roller issues. Every time he put the slide out the rollers would break off and fall to the ground. Reason being ? We found that the factory when attaching them missed the metal floor brace and they were screwed into wood or plastic.

One of the biggest guardian plate jobs I ever did was on a 2 year old top of the line, very expensive, huge 5th wheel. All 5 slides had floor rot. One of the slides we had to rebuild the internal metal bracing as it was missing a piece from the factory. I could go on and on with everything we see in the shop. Some of the problem RV's we get in are 1 year out of warranty. Some are still in warranty but the dealer and manufacturer wont fix the problems. Most have major problems and many of those jobs I send down the road. I wont work on some of this junk for liability reasons. But what really kills me is to see a young couple want to camp with their kids and they unknowingly buy a new RV filled with factory build and quality issues. It is heart breaking to witness and I don't sleep well at night after witnessing a families dreams crushed by dealers and manufacturers who could give a rats ass about the customer.

I would rather have a colonoscopy or a root canal then buy a new RV from everything we are seeing in our shop. I know I would be buying 3 years of headaches.

 

[DavidL]

All I am saying is go back to forum posts from years ago....they say the same stories.  There is always a situation that is less than perfect (many times way worse).  Unfortunately there is no objective measure of quality to get empirical evidence of dropping quality.

Note I am not saying that stuff is great, that "Red" RV had some screwy things for $330K...kinda surprised it was at a show.  It should have been prepped by the dealer much better than that.  The video is a worst case scenario.

 

[MyronTruex]

One has to wonder why there is a brand new 2019 5th wheel at Lazy Daze. It must be a ramp queen with some obvious defects. From the pictures it is beautiful and decently priced as they are trying to get rid of it of course. 

No one has mentioned how difficult it can be to get RV spaces either. Of course Florida is a bit of an exception but making plans is very difficult here 

The amount of RV storage lots around here is stunning. I can just imagine all those leakwoods being damaged by unsuspecting owners thinking their new units have a good roof and the windows are sealed properly.

 

[Melvin]

Have you tried to get a camp site anywhere in the last 2 years? 6 months out and the parks are booked. For the new RVer it also takes the fun out of using their new RV because the parks are full. People are booking a year out to reserve sites and then "no show" especially in the State and Federal parks because the nightly costs are so cheap, so the premium camp site sets empty all weekend. 

As a veteran RVer planning a trip and booking sites was never a problem now you show up and someone with a pop up is on the site for the Big Rigs. I know I know we've had it to ourselves for so many years. But it does add hours to building and booking a trip, so we have found it easier at times to rent VRBO's and go.

[Raymond]

Comments thus far are precisely why I have come to believe “we have bought our last coach first”. Upon retirement we bought our 2008 Dynasty with the intent of keeping it 5-years during which time we would see if RVing was something we wanted to do long term. Well, we found we love RVing. However, our coach is now 15 years old and we considered updating; only to find nothing new measures up. The quality of new affirms the old adage: “They don’t make them like they used to”. It’s not only the downgrade of materials but also the things they are taking away—things you’d not immediately notice unless you had experience with a coach and likely find missing in usage. Even the ‘bling’ is  of low quality and somewhat obvious. When we take our coach for service (Cummins, JoSam’s, Lazydays) the technicians seem to comment about the quality of the coach and echo the same comments about how you can’t find coaches built like this anymore. Guess it’s true, if you have a good one you better keep it. 

22 minutes ago, Melvin said:

Have you tried to get a camp site anywhere in the last 2 years? 6 months out and the parks are booked. For the new RVer it also takes the fun out of using their new RV because the parks are full. People are booking a year out to reserve sites and then "no show" especially in the State and Federal parks because the nightly costs are so cheap, so the premium camp site sets empty all weekend. 

As a veteran RVer planning a trip and booking sites was never a problem now you show up and someone with a pop up is on the site for the Big Rigs. I know I know we've had it to ourselves for so many years. But it does add hours to building and booking a trip, so we have found it easier at times to rent VRBO's and go.

It’s amazing! Anyone check the rates a Fort Wilderness lately? And even at their current pricing the place fills up. RV parks are enjoying a price bubble that has to burst at some point, hopefully, maybe. 

[jacwjames]

My wife's friend bought a 2019 Thor Outlaw.  Looking at it was OK for that level of coach and would have served them well for their needs (dog shows with the garage and deck area).  They brought it to visit us a couple times but just recently sold it as they were having nothing but problems with it from leaky roof, slide problems, leveling system and the fancy electronics.   Warranty work took forever, it was probably in the shop more then 6 months the first 2 years.  The water leak is what got me since I know first hand the long term consequences, but on a new coach hard to believe.  

We didn't buy our last coach first but I do believe we've bought our last coach😁

Got to spend some time getting it ready to travel as my wife has a dog show in May and I want to do some traveling this summer. 

[Guest Ray Davis]

Here in North East Tex along I 20 east of Dallas,  there are probably a dozen what I call new RV parks ( 2 or 3 yrs ), and they are full.  It looks like quite a few / maybe most RVs are long-term.   It is truly amazing.  The price of homes has got to be a factor but for the price of many of the coaches in there, the owners are not poor.          Of course, some are workers and their job moves them around.  I've seen similar scenarios before so this too shall pass.  I hope not too many parks lose their shirts. 

[woodylmiller]

We have not been to a RV show in some years.  Last time we went we saw the crap on display and could not believe that they actually had high end Tiffin's with such poor quality builds on display.  Walked through a new bus, 650 Cummins, so it was not cheap.  But the quality control on the interior finishes was something I would have expected to see in a van conversion, no offense to van conversions.  None of the cabinets were plumb and aligned properly.  Just garbage.  So even though we have the dreaded Kongsberg multiplex, we are keeping our Dynasty.   There is no substitute for quality.

Talking with a former Monaco employee in Coburg, he said they don't make em like this anymore.  Keep this one and fix what breaks.  He's 100% correct.  Worse than the Tiffin we looked at was Winnie's top of the line Grand Tour, which they no longer make.  Everything that was not welded had fallen apart or broke.  Just really more garbage.  All these models were circa 2018/19.

Woody Miller

09 Dynasty (she's a beauty and we're keeping her)

[Analyte]

When I was looking a couple years back, I was disappointed in the newer coaches relative to their cost. Poor quality control and the materials were just awful.

When I got serious about an older Monaco, I purposely looked for a early 2000s without the multiplex and aqua hot. I didnt need/want that fancy stuff, plus less complexity to deal with when upgrading or making repairs. Been very pleased with my Dynasty, and I get compliments from others at the RV park wishing they had kept their old MH rather than trading in on a new one.