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ONAN/CUMMINS 8KW Starts great, runs for a short time then shuts off, fault code 33


Idoc57
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My 8KW HDKAK Spec K was running flawlessly for the first seven days of our trip and then all of a sudden it just shut down like a switch was turned off.  There was no stumbling or change in RPM, just click "OFF".  Got to our campground about an hour later and it cranked right up and ran beautifully, so I shut it down and figured it was just a glitch.  Headed out the next morning and cranked it up, waited a few minutes then turned on the A/C.  No problem ..... for about 5 minutes, then it shut off again (like a light switch was thrown).  I waited 3-4 minutes then cranked it right back up again.  This time, when I turned the A/C on it only ran for 2-3 minutes and shut off again.  

I had a repeating, single blink of the indicator light, then I pressed the bottom of the start switch and read a fault code of 33.  There was nothing blocking the air inlet or outlet, the oil level was good and the coolant level was good.  If I crank it up from cold, it will run for 30 minutes with no load, then when I turn on an A/C it will shut down within 3 minutes.  There was a kink in the larger of the 3 coolant lines below the radiator cap, so I shortened the hose about 1 1/4 inches and that put the kinked area up on the plastic housing.  No change.

I am thinking that either the thermostat is stuck closed or the belt is off or broken.  It seems like it runs beautifully until it reaches a certain temp, then "click" it shuts off.  Obviously, the more load and RPM, the quicker that happens.  I only have 60 hrs on it since I changed the oil and filter, fuel filter, air filter and flushed the cooling system (which was right up to the radiator cap when I opened it).  I'm getting ready to crawl under it and see if it is even possible to remove the rear cabinet panel.  I don't have a genny slide out.  I may have to remove the whole generator from the coach to access the back and top.  If I do that, I will replace every hose and the belt whether it needs it or not.  Apparently, the water temp sensor is working just fine, so I may not fool with it (and I have heard "horror stories" about getting the old sensor out).

I did go through all 4 pages of posts on "GENERATOR", but did not see anything with a fault code of "33"

If any of you have any word of wisdom for me on this issue, I would really appreciate your input.

Thanks,

Carey

 

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You appear not to have the correct service manual for your generator.  IF you have the HDKAK, here is a good link.

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/manuals/Electrical/Generator/Onan 5500/Onan Troubleshooting Codes.pdf

33 says the sucker is running hot.  Obviously NOT, but the heat sensor thinks or Is confused….or BROKE!

Many of the more experienced members here posted helpful ideas over the years.  They recommended you always carry the following…

Temp Sensor; Thermostat; Thermostat Gasket; drive Belt (the only belt INSIDE….it may well be the water pump…but if you look up BELT….only one listed); tools and good quality coolant.  You do NOT want to put cheap coolant in the diesel.  Most use the same HD coolant that is in the engine….whatever spec is in your owner’s manual.  Some are upgrading to newer and more expensive coolants….personal decision.

ODDS ARE….no guarantees or wager….you have a bad heat or engine temperature sensor.  Pull the covers.  Change out the above parts.  If you haven't a clue as to the last coolant service, new coolant .  MY PERSONAL advice is if the coolant fluid looks OK and  doesn’t smell foul or have oil stains  ….. I’d drain as much as I could….and refill.  That is what Cummins did on my MH to comply with the extended warrant requirements.

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8 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

You appear not to have the correct service manual for your generator.  IF you have the HDKAK, here is a good link.

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/manuals/Electrical/Generator/Onan 5500/Onan Troubleshooting Codes.pdf

33 says the sucker is running hot.  Obviously NOT, but the heat sensor thinks or Is confused….or BROKE!

Many of the more experienced members here posted helpful ideas over the years.  They recommended you always carry the following…

Temp Sensor; Thermostat; Thermostat Gasket; drive Belt (the only belt INSIDE….it may well be the water pump…but if you look up BELT….only one listed); tools and good quality coolant.  You do NOT want to put cheap coolant in the diesel.  Most use the same HD coolant that is in the engine….whatever spec is in your owner’s manual.  Some are upgrading to newer and more expensive coolants….personal decision.

ODDS ARE….no guarantees or wager….you have a bad heat or engine temperature sensor.  Pull the covers.  Change out the above parts.  If you haven't a clue as to the last coolant service, new coolant .  MY PERSONAL advice is if the coolant fluid looks OK and  doesn’t smell foul or have oil stains  ….. I’d drain as much as I could….and refill.  That is what Cummins did on my MH to comply with the extended warrant requirements.

Tom, I'm pretty sure that my parts manual is correct.  My unit is an 8 KW.  The link in your post appears to be for a 5.5 KW unit.  My full model # is 8HDKAK1145K.  The link to my copy of the parts manual is:  https://rockymountaingeneratorsupply.com/userfiles/2002/HDKAH, HDKAJ, HDKAK, HDKAT, HDKAU, HDKAV Parts Manual.pdf

Actually, I think that the problem I am experiencing is due to overheating.  When I start it from cold, it takes a while for it to get hot, especially if it is just lumbering along at low idle with no load.  Yesterday, I had it idling for 30 minutes with no issue.  As soon as I turned on one A/C unit it ramped up the RPM and with the additional load probably increased the running temp to the point (not sure what that temp is) where the electronics felt like it had crossed the overheat threshold and shut it down like flipping a switch.  I waited about 10 minutes and cranked it back up again.  It ran beautifully, but since the block was already hot, it only took about 2-3 minutes before it shut down again. 

So this afternoon I was able to get quite a few of the 10mm bolts out that secure the enclosure sides to the point that I could see into the back and there is a belt on the pulleys.  I could just barely squeeze my forearm in through the "crack" and even though the belt is there, it feels like it is not tensioned properly (probably worn down, 1968 hours}.  It is possible that the water pump is not being turned efficiently enough to circulate the coolant like it should.  Of course another possibility is that the thermostat is sticking closed.  Unfortunately, my genny is not on a slide out and just trying to get the sides and top of the enclosure off is a royal PITB.  I may have to just remove the whole thing from the coach.  

As for the antifreeze that I used, it was Zerex Extended Life Red Heavy Duty (HD) Concentrate Antifreeze/Coolant.  I only have 60 hours on the generator since all fluids and filters were changed.

Thanks,

Carey

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How often do you run the generator?   If it’s not exercised properly, the temp sensor can get corroded and bridge itself (not contacting any fluids).  That or a thermostat is not a difficult repair but if access is limited it could be (I’ve not seen a non-slide gen install so I have no clue).  
My temp sensor was heavily corroded over and broke when trying to remove.  It took a right angle drill and some countersink bits (the Ryobi brand from Home Depot) to get through the blockage.  I removed the thermostat and fluid level in the pipe to below the sensor and inserted rags to keep drill cuttings from going down pipe system.  
 

If you can remove the thermostat and some fluid, you could use a mechanics mirror to see if the sensor is bridged over or not… again if access allows that.  Just thinking of some easier steps to help verify the issue.  Note the fluid level below the t-stat so you can replace it.

Good luck.

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Guest Ray Davis

The symptoms are very close to mine, which was a belt in my case.   On my coach it was a pretty easy job, I could extend the gen and sit up behind it where the belt is.    Obviously, yours would be vastly more difficult, but maybe by driving up on some boards, you can remove the back cover & not have to remove the gen.  If it does turn out to be the belt, a word of warning, use only the Onan belt,  there is no adjustment so it must fit precisely.    Also, do not attempt to roll the belt on, it is very short and you'll ruin it.  Instead, 4 small bolts will remove the water pump pully, then it is easily installed.       I don't know if I can explain, but when reattaching the pully you can start one bolt using a top hole of the pully and a bottom hole of the water pump,  the belt will be very loose but when you rotate the assy the holes will line up for the other 3 bolts and the belt will be tight.    Yeah,  that's clear as mud but hopefully, when anyone does it, the process will make more sense. 

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4 hours ago, MHRookie said:

How often do you run the generator?   If it’s not exercised properly, the temp sensor can get corroded and bridge itself (not contacting any fluids).  That or a thermostat is not a difficult repair but if access is limited it could be (I’ve not seen a non-slide gen install so I have no clue).  
My temp sensor was heavily corroded over and broke when trying to remove.  It took a right angle drill and some countersink bits (the Ryobi brand from Home Depot) to get through the blockage.  I removed the thermostat and fluid level in the pipe to below the sensor and inserted rags to keep drill cuttings from going down pipe system.  
 

If you can remove the thermostat and some fluid, you could use a mechanics mirror to see if the sensor is bridged over or not… again if access allows that.  Just thinking of some easier steps to help verify the issue.  Note the fluid level below the t-stat so you can replace it.

Good luck.

Kurt, I run the coach and the genny for about 30 miles every 4-6 weeks.  I have seen the issue with corrosion of the temp sensor on videos.  I'm wondering if I want to get into that potential "rat's nest" if my sensor is not bad.  On one hand I would think that it is working, because it is shutting the engine down.  The thing that I don't know is if it is shutting everything down at the right temp.  Do you know at what temp the engine will shut itself down?  

I am having a problem getting the supply and return lines loose.  I don't think that they are corroded, and both appear to be brass.  I am assuming that they separate between the lower hex nut and the 90 degree fitting.  I may just need to use bigger wrenches for more leverage, but I didn't want to damage the fittings.  

Another thing that I noticed when I was under there was that the positive battery lead was not really tight.  The ground lug was tight.  I don't think this is related to the engine shutting down, but I'm glad that I saw it.  The genny starts just fine and purrs like a kitten until something "throws the off switch".

Thank you for responding.  Do you have any advice on the fuel connections?

Carey

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14 hours ago, Idoc57 said:

Tom, I'm pretty sure that my parts manual is correct.  My unit is an 8 KW.  The link in your post appears to be for a 5.5 KW unit.  My full model # is 8HDKAK1145K.  The link to my copy of the parts manual is:  https://rockymountaingeneratorsupply.com/userfiles/2002/HDKAH, HDKAJ, HDKAK, HDKAT, HDKAU, HDKAV Parts Manual.pdf

Actually, I think that the problem I am experiencing is due to overheating.  When I start it from cold, it takes a while for it to get hot, especially if it is just lumbering along at low idle with no load.  Yesterday, I had it idling for 30 minutes with no issue.  As soon as I turned on one A/C unit it ramped up the RPM and with the additional load probably increased the running temp to the point (not sure what that temp is) where the electronics felt like it had crossed the overheat threshold and shut it down like flipping a switch.  I waited about 10 minutes and cranked it back up again.  It ran beautifully, but since the block was already hot, it only took about 2-3 minutes before it shut down again. 

So this afternoon I was able to get quite a few of the 10mm bolts out that secure the enclosure sides to the point that I could see into the back and there is a belt on the pulleys.  I could just barely squeeze my forearm in through the "crack" and even though the belt is there, it feels like it is not tensioned properly (probably worn down, 1968 hours}.  It is possible that the water pump is not being turned efficiently enough to circulate the coolant like it should.  Of course another possibility is that the thermostat is sticking closed.  Unfortunately, my genny is not on a slide out and just trying to get the sides and top of the enclosure off is a royal PITB.  I may have to just remove the whole thing from the coach.  

As for the antifreeze that I used, it was Zerex Extended Life Red Heavy Duty (HD) Concentrate Antifreeze/Coolant.  I only have 60 hours on the generator since all fluids and filters were changed.

Thanks,

Carey

Here’s the latest one i found.  It goes through SPEC P.  (A-P)….so your genny is included.  This is the owners manual.  Same as the one i sent you.  Trouble Code 33 is the same so, unless I missed something, you have an “overheating” code.  Matters not if the engine is hot or cold….the temp sensor controls the PCB…so it shuts down.  Probably some start up routine….then after the genny has run for a few minutes, it goes, like the emission systems on your car, through a diagnostic and fails and shuts down.  Have you called Onan and talked to them?

https://rockymountaingeneratorsupply.com/userfiles/2002/HDKAH, HDKAJ, HDKAK, HDKAT, HDKAU, HDKAV Service Manual.pdf

OK…some do’s and DO NOT DO’s…based on the UH OH…never do that advice from many members.

Battery terminals on the back.  MEGA CAREFULon them.  One very astute member decided to torque down every battery connection.  He broke of one of the studs.  It is BRASS.  Be careful.  Cleanliness is important but don’t “rare down on it”.  There is, memory, a LOCK nut…or go to the manual you posted, which is parts and verify how the studs are attached.

Next up.  While you are under there, clean or loosen and rotate side to side the ground stud on the chassis as well.  You will not regret it.  

Your hours are screaming for the whole enchiladas….sensor, belt, T’stat, maybe coolant, etc.  Sloughing off a bit of misery now could cause you heart and pocket ACHE.  I can’t recall the service interval for the 4 parts that i listed….look in the manual.  We have had with a NEW to them MH and several hundred hours on the Genny and say….I changed my genny oil.  I ordered the filter on the placard.  Mine ain’t the same….??  That is a TRAGEDY.  Onan specifically puts on a SHORTER filter so you are supposed to change it out at the first interval (50 hours?).  You don’t and then have an issue….NO WARRANTY.  Their way of protecting themselves from stupid people….  I would NOT depend on a previous owner to do proper service.

Fuel fittings.  There are “line wrenches” specifically for that.  My worry…if I understand your post….has the fuel filter ever been changed.  You need two “Pinch Clamp” locking pliers to shut off the fuel and not drown yourself.  Harbor Freight sells a kit of 3 for under $10….they work OK for as long as we would need them.

I can’t help you with the access problems….but my sage advice….do the complete service.  Then you know.  Good luck.

 

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Carey,

     As others stated, use the proper type fuel fitting wrenches if it won’t pop loose with your current open ends… better fitting support with those wrenches.

     I would try and start it and look at belt to make sure it’s turning water pump'.. at minimum, install new belt as outlined above and observe (cheap verification).

I’ll send you a PM message.

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Guest Ray Davis

Carey,  since it appears you are able to get under it I am not sure of this but I think you can remove the bottom screws from the back panel and pry it out enough to see the belt.  That might let you know if it's the problem.   Diesel engines don't generate much heat idling, however under load lots of heat

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5 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

The symptoms are very close to mine, which was a belt in my case.   On my coach it was a pretty easy job, I could extend the gen and sit up behind it where the belt is.    Obviously, yours would be vastly more difficult, but maybe by driving up on some boards, you can remove the back cover & not have to remove the gen.  If it does turn out to be the belt, a word of warning, use only the Onan belt,  there is no adjustment so it must fit precisely.    Also, do not attempt to roll the belt on, it is very short and you'll ruin it.  Instead, 4 small bolts will remove the water pump pully, then it is easily installed.       I don't know if I can explain, but when reattaching the pully you can start one bolt using a top hole of the pully and a bottom hole of the water pump,  the belt will be very loose but when you rotate the assy the holes will line up for the other 3 bolts and the belt will be tight.    Yeah,  that's clear as mud but hopefully, when anyone does it, the process will make more sense. 

Ray,

I definitely will use OEM parts.  I had seen a video where the guy said to remove the water pump pulley to replace the belt, but he didn't mention your technique for putting the pulley back on.  I will definitely try that.  My belt does not feel tight enough to me, so it is probably worn significantly and who knows, maybe they rolled my belt on when whoever installed it.  

As I mentioned in my last post above, I am having a hard time trying to disconnect the fuel supply and return lines.  They are extremely tight.  I don't want to damage the fittings.  There is a 90 degree fitting that exits the base of the generator, then (if memory serves me correctly) there is a 9/16" hex "nut".  It was here that I was trying to make the disconnect.  Do you know if that is the correct place to take it apart?  In other words, unscrew the 9/16 hex part of the fuel line side off of the 90 degree fitting.  It is so darn tight and I'm a little leery of "getting a bigger hammer", but if I knew for sure that was the correct place to take it apart, I would get a longer wrench.

Thanks for your help and suggestions,

Carey

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Guest Ray Davis

I'm not gonna be much help on those fuel lines except to repeat Ivan's advice to use line wrenches.  Lots of folks don't know what line wrenches are,  they are a cross between an open-end and box-end wrench, not quite a full box so you can still slip it over a line.  If you don't have any maybe a store nearby has a small set,  They can literally save you a world of grief.  Open-end wrenches are notorious for rounding brass fittings.  Here's a picture of a small set.

image.jpeg.60fff364e442f7bfe9c05e5182a49d7d.jpeg

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4 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

I'm not gonna be much help on those fuel lines except to repeat Ivan's advice to use line wrenches.  Lots of folks don't know what line wrenches are,  they are a cross between an open-end and box-end wrench, not quite a full box so you can still slip it over a line.  If you don't have any maybe a store nearby has a small set,  They can literally save you a world of grief.  Open-end wrenches are notorious for rounding brass fittings.  Here's a picture of a small set.

image.jpeg.60fff364e442f7bfe9c05e5182a49d7d.jpeg

Ray and Ivan,

I have a set of Craftsman line wrenches.  That is what I was using on the hex nut part of the fuel line fitting.  The 90 degree fitting is small (I think 5/16") and I didn't have a line wrench that small.  I had a good capture on the 90 fitting with an open end, but it is so short that I can't get much leverage on it.  I can use a larger crescent wrench that will get a full capture of the 90 and give me more leverage.  I really want to know if I'm trying to separate it at the right spot before I get "horsey" with it.  In my last post above I described it in detail, if you could read the last paragraph above and let me know if I am trying to disconnect it at the right spot.

Thanks,

Carey

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Guest Ray Davis

Carey,   I just reread your post and I'm trying to visualize the 90 deg fitting.  Does it have a square body that you would use your crescent wrench on?  If that's the case then yeah I would probably use the biggest crescent I could get in there on that square body, I don't think you can hurt it, it's the hex you gotta concern yourself with.  Oh,  and I do believe that is the right spot, but without a picture, I'm guessing.

Does the fitting look something like this?    Zoro Select 706116-02 90 Extruded Street Elbow, Brass, 1/8 in

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Carey, here is a picture of my fuel lines, I had them removed a bunch of times while troubleshooting in the past. If you have a tight line wrench, tap it with an other wrench or similar and it should get loose if you can't break it with just hand. After removing them, I put the hose ends into a ziplock bag and tie high up.

IMG_20230622_194924200.jpg

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I’ve had the same problem and the “33” fault code twice since owning the coach. First time I changed the thermostat and the belt. Still faulted with 33. Replaced the sending unit and problem solved. Last year got the problem again, changed the sending unit in a rest area and no more problems. 
I carry a spare as many have advised. Mine is on a slide, so it is easily accessible.
 

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1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

Carey, here is a picture of my fuel lines, I had them removed a bunch of times while troubleshooting in the past. If you have a tight line wrench, tap it with an other wrench or similar and it should get loose if you can't break it with just hand. After removing them, I put the hose ends into a ziplock bag and tie high up.

IMG_20230622_194924200.jpg

Ivan,

That is what mine look like!  I was trying to turn the "hex nut" that you have indicated with my line wrench while stabilizing the 90 degree fitting with an open end wrench (10 mm if I'm not mistaken).  Problem is that the smaller wrench that I had on the 90 was just not long enough  to give me much leverage.  Now that you have confirmed that I am trying to break open the correct spot, I will try using the biggest crescent wrench that will fit on the 90 and get a lot more torque on it.  

Did fuel continue to come out of the hoses after you disconnected them or just what was in the vertical section of hose that goes down to the fitting?  I do have some high quality hose clamp pliers if I need to clamp the fuel lines off.  I would prefer not to clamp the fuel lines.  Do you know the size of the threads of the 90 degree fitting (like 1/8" NPT,maybe)?  I would prefer to cap them off.

Thank you for your help,

Carey

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2 hours ago, BennieH said:

I’ve had the same problem and the “33” fault code twice since owning the coach. First time I changed the thermostat and the belt. Still faulted with 33. Replaced the sending unit and problem solved. Last year got the problem again, changed the sending unit in a rest area and no more problems. 
I carry a spare as many have advised. Mine is on a slide, so it is easily accessible.
 

Hi Bennie,

Did you have any issues getting your sending unit to come loose?  I would gladly replace mine, I have just seen horror stories about getting the sensor to come loose.  I would hate to break it off or round it off and be stuck with an even bigger repair job, but I guess if it is the cause of the problem, it has to be done.  Amazing that you were able to do yours at a rest stop!  Shows the value in having your genny on a slide out.  I'm still thinking that it might be "easier" in the long run to just pull the genny completely out of the coach and pull all the side panels and top off.

Any words of wisdom on getting that sensor to come loose?

Thank you,

Carey

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Guest Ray Davis

Carey,  I don't recall reading specifically why you want to disconnect those fuel lines except mentioning it might be easier to pull the gen.

Removing the gen would certainly make things easier and might actually be the only way to get at all 4 things that Tom mentioned.

Just wondering, have you got equipment to handle the gen?  It's pretty heavy & rather unwieldy.  McGyver comes to mind.   

Keep us posted.

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1 hour ago, Idoc57 said:

Hi Bennie,

Did you have any issues getting your sending unit to come loose?  I would gladly replace mine, I have just seen horror stories about getting the sensor to come loose.  I would hate to break it off or round it off and be stuck with an even bigger repair job, but I guess if it is the cause of the problem, it has to be done.  Amazing that you were able to do yours at a rest stop!  Shows the value in having your genny on a slide out.  I'm still thinking that it might be "easier" in the long run to just pull the genny completely out of the coach and pull all the side panels and top off.

Any words of wisdom on getting that sensor to come loose?

Thank you,

Carey

My only wisdom is that we now have a different and more diverse membership.  But the folks that started the original site were very PM and “spares” mindsets.  They probably didn’t follow all the intervals, but they were adamant about when the covers came off….assuming they didn’t know the history or it was “time”, they replaced all.  I would advise spraying a good penetrating oil on the sensor threads.  I don’t have my spares handy, but if it takes a special socket or tool, buy it and keep it.  Good luck…

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Carey,

I used a 6 point socket on mine. Came out fairly easy as I remember. I also used a non-hardening thread sealant the first time and it was real easy the next time.

Bob

1 hour ago, Idoc57 said:

Hi Bennie,

Did you have any issues getting your sending unit to come loose?  I would gladly replace mine, I have just seen horror stories about getting the sensor to come loose.  I would hate to break it off or round it off and be stuck with an even bigger repair job, but I guess if it is the cause of the problem, it has to be done.  Amazing that you were able to do yours at a rest stop!  Shows the value in having your genny on a slide out.  I'm still thinking that it might be "easier" in the long run to just pull the genny completely out of the coach and pull all the side panels and top off.

Any words of wisdom on getting that sensor to come loose?

Thank you,

Carey

 

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1 hour ago, Idoc57 said:

Ivan,

That is what mine look like!  I was trying to turn the "hex nut" that you have indicated with my line wrench while stabilizing the 90 degree fitting with an open end wrench (10 mm if I'm not mistaken).  Problem is that the smaller wrench that I had on the 90 was just not long enough  to give me much leverage.  Now that you have confirmed that I am trying to break open the correct spot, I will try using the biggest crescent wrench that will fit on the 90 and get a lot more torque on it.  

Did fuel continue to come out of the hoses after you disconnected them or just what was in the vertical section of hose that goes down to the fitting?  I do have some high quality hose clamp pliers if I need to clamp the fuel lines off.  I would prefer not to clamp the fuel lines.  Do you know the size of the threads of the 90 degree fitting (like 1/8" NPT,maybe)?  I would prefer to cap them off.

Thank you for your help,

Carey

Carey, I also did not pinch the lines, they are pretty hard and like I said, I put the hose ends in a bag with shop towel and hang them up. You get a little spill into a bucket no way around it but not much from the generator side. I haven't used plugs but would imagine my 1/8" hydraulics plugs could work. I know removing the lines allows to move the sheet metal back for access.

IMG_20230623_075030553.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

My only wisdom is that we now have a different and more diverse membership.  But the folks that started the original site were very PM and “spares” mindsets.  They probably didn’t follow all the intervals, but they were adamant about when the covers came off….assuming they didn’t know the history or it was “time”, they replaced all.  I would advise spraying a good penetrating oil on the sensor threads.  I don’t have my spares handy, but if it takes a special socket or tool, buy it and keep it.  Good luck…

Tom, I definitely ascribe to the "PM and spares" mindset.  When I purchased the coach 2 years ago, not having any previous maintenance records, I replaced every single filter (genny oil, fuel & air; engine oil, fuel & air; compressed air) every lubricant (genny, engine, power steering, rear end) flushed the engine cooling system, replaced every hose on it and used high quality coolant, replaced both belts and carry spares, greased every zerk on the chassis, replaced all 4 air springs and shocks, rear trailing arms (source eng).  

It gives me peace of mind knowing that all PM has been done.

Thanks,

Carey

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