Anyone know where to find this tube?

[Pudgy Camper]

I'm servicing my Allison 3000MH and I would love to get rid of this crusty, rusty tube before it causes any issues. It's the tube that connects the dip stick rubber hose to the transmission. I'm having trouble finding a part number or any information on it. I've talked to Allison and they said most likely Monaco installed it. Talked to REV Group and they don't know anything. Anybody know what this tube is called or have a part number?

[Tom Cherry]

My old days of being a gear head and having to replace a damaged dipstick tube were interesting.  The tube was a specially formed and fabricated item and had a slight annular (bulge) or ring just below the flange that is flush with the housing.  So, you pushed down on the tube with a special slotted tube and that contacted the flange or top ring.  Gave it a “rap” with a ballpeen hammer and it seated and the bulge expanded and sealed it.  

NOW….from chasing thousands of parts that Monaco and then Navistar used….I DOUBT than even a digital copy, with the PN exists anywhere today…but we have been fooled and pleasantly surprised….but I DOUBT it.    GOOGLE may be your source or friend….maybe NOT. Try this “Allison MH3000 dipstick tube”

See the screen shot,  IRV2 has a lot of potential links.  

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=44630.0

NOW an old adage….if it Ain’t….don’t Fix it.  If it is NOT leaking….use some crocus (sp?) strips and remove the rust.  LIGHTLY.  Be careful.  Then paint it with an Iron Phosphate conversion coating to penetrate the remaining rust.  Spray the surfaces you can get to and then use a soft and wide artist’s brush and spray a capful of paint and “dab it on” the backside of the tube and rock on.  Supposedly there is a gasket.  Allison is a little disappointing in that they don’t have a PN. I’d take a picture….and drive to an Authorized Allison rebuilder and talk to the shop foreman and Parts folks and ask them….”what do I need to buy to fix or replace”.  If Allison sold a gasket for the tube…then odds are, they DID make a tube…

[Scotty Hutto]

Jason,

I don’t know if this is the answer, but at least it should give some clues.  This is from my 2006 Dip (which has a 2005 ISL 400 and Allison 3000MH transmission.  

The other clue is if you look at the “Vendor P/N”, that’s tells you the part wasn’t made by Monaco, but purchased from a vendor.  Sometimes you can search for the vendor part number and find who the OEM was.  Alternatively, @David Pratt has encyclopedic knowledge of who the OEM vendors were on our coaches. 

REV apparently still offers this part, though it’s “not in stock” but may be available special order in 2-3 weeks  

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Jason,

I don’t know if this is the answer, but at least it should give some clues.  This is from my 2006 Dip (which has a 2005 ISL 400 and Allison 3000MH transmission.  

The other clue is if you look at the “Vendor P/N”, that’s tells you the part wasn’t made by Monaco, but purchased from a vendor.  Sometimes you can search for the vendor part number and find who the OEM was.  Alternatively, @David Pratt has encyclopedic knowledge of who the OEM vendors were on our coaches. 

REV apparently still offers this part, though it’s “not in stock” but may be available special order in 2-3 weeks  

 

Scotty, GREAT info.  I can add, I think a little to it.  You can buy the clamps and screw for it.  WONDERFUL... on $16.  BUT, if you read the info in Scotty's post.  The tube is a Zinc Plated, but with a "Yellow Dichromate" finish.  That means it was dipped into a special Chromic Acid bath right after or on the end of the plating line.  It leaves a Gold or Yellow finish.  Sort of like a tie died finish as it is splotchy and very erratic.  This is a common finish for Zinc Plated parts.  It is EXTREMELY good for protection....over the thin Zinc Plated surface.  Made for salt and road environments.  SO, that fits the BILL.

NOW....unless REV can find it....the next question...which I just researched and have an answer for....

Your manual recommends using the Auto Level Sensors in the Transmission for a MORE ACCURATE check....as the Dipsticks were NOTORIOUS for not being the correct one or really HARD TO GET BACK IN.  Here is a PDF of what is in your manual in case you are missing it.  

MY SAGE ADVICE.  I would periodically check, per the procedure and DRIVE ON.  Make sure it is warmed up (195 DF) and you are Level.  The OK OL or OL OK is your friend.  Interesting....I chased and CHASED the part number that Scotty found and also did a whole bunch of surfing.  I PERSONALLY would leave well enough alone.  Folks that have "messed" with it or had concerns like you often end up with issues....and finding the original Allison Seal is tough....or so they say.  BUT, if you do WANT to pursue it...a dealer (assuming you called Allison and asked them) would be better as they have to FIX THINGS...where the techs just read the prints.

That's ONE option...THE ONLY OTHER comment....if the OL OK is what you get and you start to get a ragged or rough downshift when you engage the Exhaust Brake....  I added a pint and then another and finally maybe a total of 1 1/2 QT and the downshifting is like NEW.  The OL OK range is a "Band".  Just like the checkered area on a dip stick.  Allison say NEVER believe the OK OK number.  Start off with half a quart or a quart at the outside and NEVER do 2 or 3....  Drive it and then recheck....take it easy. 

BTW.....there are MANY companies that sell a OIL FILL CAP or PLUG for the Allison as when it leaks....guess what....SEAL THAT SUCKER OFF... That is the fix, if it has Electronic OL Sensor....which yours does...but you CAN get the Tranny SN and verify with Allison Tech Support 

Good Luck...

2004 Windsor Allison Instructions.pdf

[BradHend]

Apologies on hijacking’s this - @Tom Cherry , your suggestion of using the iron phosphate conversion coating - would that be acceptable to be used on my engine and frame? My poor Cayman is so rusted. It stresses me out as I’m dumping a fair sum of money into it.  I know the damage is done, but it would be nice to find a way to fairly cheaply prevent further damage.  For the record it was purchased this way from a fellow Canadian in North Bay Ontario. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by BradHend

[Pudgy Camper]

Thanks for the input guys, I think I'll just clean it up the best I can and paint it for now as suggested by Tom. I don't want to risk contaminating the tranny by pulling it off. I'll keep an eye on it and deal with it if it springs a leak. 

16 minutes ago, BradHend said:

Apologies on hijacking’s this - @Tom Cherry , your suggestion of using the iron phosphate conversion coating - would that be acceptable to be used on my engine and frame? My poor Cayman is so rusted. It stresses me out as I’m dumping a fair sum of money into it.  I know the damage is done, but it would be nice to find a way to fairly cheaply prevent further damage.  For the record it was purchased this way from a fellow Canadian in North Bay Ontario. 

BradHend, I had the same rusty frame issue with my Windsor. I used a flapp disc and wire brush to strip as much as I could then sprayed it with Rustoleum Rust Reformer, then a couple coats of Rustoleum enamel. It was a little bit of work but came out pretty good.

[Scotty Hutto]

28 minutes ago, BradHend said:

Apologies on hijacking’s this - @Tom Cherry , your suggestion of using the iron phosphate conversion coating - would that be acceptable to be used on my engine and frame? My poor Cayman is so rusted. It stresses me out as I’m dumping a fair sum of money into it.  I know the damage is done, but it would be nice to find a way to fairly cheaply prevent further damage.  For the record it was purchased this way from a fellow Canadian in North Bay Ontario. 

Not Tom, but I’d suggest POR-15 for the frame.  POR stands for Paint Over Rust.  Pretty sure Tom has a process he can share, but my understanding is the POR chemically bonds with the rust to form a barrier to protect the remaining metal. 

I have no information on using POR on the engine??? Not sure how it might react with the heat  

I’ll be curious to hear Tom’s report on this. I’m pretty sure he’s the one who recommended it to me years ago for my rusted battery tray. 🤔

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Not Tom, but I’d suggest POR-15 for the frame.  POR stands for Paint Over Rust.  Pretty sure Tom has a process he can share, but my understanding is the POR chemically bonds with the rust to form a barrier to protect the remaining metal. 

I’ll be curious to hear Tom’s report on this. I’m pretty sure he’s the one who recommended it to me years ago for my rusted battery tray. 🤔

SORT OF "YES" to all the above... LOL.  The frame rusting is a subjective issues...as it is with most car restoration folks.  If the frame has surface, and perhaps really deep rust, but NO signs of structural or weld deterioration....and you are concerned....then fix it based on your concerns and your skills.

Iron Phosphate conversion coating vary all over the map.  It DEPENDS on how deep and what level.  For example...  My battery box was rusted and had some rust.  It does NOT NOW thanks to Frank's suggestions about the Battery Miser caps and also "shade tree me" making a wooden dowel fill gauge or dipstick.  THAT prevented reoccurrence.  I did use a side grander and wire brush and maybe a careful touch here with the cut off wheel.  I WILL TELL YOU...I almost "really messed up a finger".  Wire Brushes (the Ex Safety Director coming to life) are dangerous if the get "stuck or then "bounce back" or ricochet in a tight corner.  The wheel cut a gash and I thought an Ortho Hand guy was gonna be called and a 3 hour surgery.  FORTUNATELY, the "Doc in a Box" doctor was great.  He examined it and cleaned it and used almost a microscope and said he did NOT think any tendon damage.  Stitched me up...and I worked with my hand exercisers and no issues... Can STILL use one finger to sort out and count pills....LOL.

OK...I used the Rustoleum best primer and then the Truck Bed paint.  I let it cure per instructions.  It is OK...but it certainly is NOT in the same league as the POR.  That stuff, from what I read....and the restoration and marine guys and other severe environment folks swear by it.  Same as JF Biobor...  SO...IF I had to do it again...POR.  But that was almost 10 years a go and I have changed batteries and the paint is a little scuffed or maybe worn down...but NO SURFACE rust.  I could probably pull the batteries (House) and respray and be good.  BUT, if you use the POR....down to BARE or as best you can METAL. 

The iron phosphating conversion coats all read the same.  Just a matter of the concentration and method of delivery and viscosity of them.  Rustoleum probably works well...but if it critical and you want to last past the useful life of another major component...then POR.  EXCEPT..... It AIN'T CHEAP.  I doubt it is on Amazon.  Find a distributor and save a bundle in shipping.

NOW to restoring a frame.  Sand blasting is the prefered way.  Any home air compressor will work....the larger the tank, the better.  You can buy cheap sand blast guns.  BUT....PERSONAL SAFETY.  MUST have a good Respirator.  AND the right filter.  You CAN buy them now....but Covid made them gold plated.  If you are a bearded wonder....SHAVE IT OFF.  A respirator will NOT work with a beard.  I know this from all the testing I did and my own personal experiences.  THEN you are going to need a high volume tank to get rid of the grit.  NOW...never Sand Blast where there is an OPEN surface.  My WORST nightmare was a jackleg contractor that was SUPPOSED to drain our cooling tower basins and then sandblast.  NOPE.  We spent a fortune on rebuilding vacuum pumps that were water cooled.  SO....close off the air intake and other critical items and be aware of any vent...like on a rear end.  ENGINES.  I thin that @Frank McElroy added a TOPIC or maybe a File on this.  He used a now cost steam genny and was careful.  SO, I am NOT going down that path.

ONCE you get the frame cleaned....Spray Undercoating is expensive...but the "shops" charge a LOT.  I would worry about a $20 per hour "kid...no disrespect" that was trained to spray cars being knowledgeable enough to apply a gun application of undercoating....without consequences....  Monaco did and how'd that hold up.  I have some rust.  Never bothered me and maybe ONE DAY, I'll do some touch up.  Just what bothers you and what the results could be...

My thoughts...and there are MORE folks here have salvaged antique cars and such or worked on farm and construction equipment...

[Paul J A]

IF you can't clean it up to use POR  15, I would "clean" it up as well as I could, and cover with https://boeshield.com/ Beoshield T 9.

[Ivan K]

4 hours ago, Pudgy Camper said:

I'm servicing my Allison 3000MH and I would love to get rid of this crusty, rusty tube before it causes any issues. It's the tube that connects the dip stick rubber hose to the transmission. I'm having trouble finding a part number or any information on it. I've talked to Allison and they said most likely Monaco installed it. Talked to REV Group and they don't know anything. Anybody know what this tube is called or have a part number?

This could help you if you can manage the elbow which looks a little amateurish. Even cheaper on ebay. Some tubes slide into an oring inside the casting, some are press fit, not sure how Allison did it but judging by the clamp, I would expect an oring.

[Ivan K]

2 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Not Tom, but I’d suggest POR-15 for the frame.  POR stands for Paint Over Rust.  Pretty sure Tom has a process he can share, but my understanding is the POR chemically bonds with the rust to form a barrier to protect the remaining metal. 

I have no information on using POR on the engine??? Not sure how it might react with the heat  

I’ll be curious to hear Tom’s report on this. I’m pretty sure he’s the one who recommended it to me years ago for my rusted battery tray. 🤔

POR makes high heat paint that should hold up even on exhaust manifold, eventhough I never used it for that purpose. If you go with POR on the frame, don't waste time by making the metal shiny, that is a bad thing for its adhesion. It needs to grab, just remove all loose rust. It will not be pretty on deeply rusted sections but will prevent future rust. It doesn't have UV resistance (unless you put their 'hard nose' paint over it within short time). This should not matter on an undercarriage. I prefere POR for quick rust stop treatment that is not intended for showoff. Usual rust converters need to stay wet for some/relatively long time, need to be washed off and you may get a new flash rust while it dries depending where you are. Shiny metal should be etched for adhesion and that all adds up. POR can also be sprayed if you add their solvent for hard to reach areas. Don't use it when it is very humid,  it makes it cure very fast. AND, wear gloves, it takes a week to peal off your hands. Good luck!

[BradHend]

Thanks guys.  I really do appreciate the input and advice.  Great group this is. 

[dl_racing427]

As mentioned, the POR-15 is VERY good for rusty surfaces.  It actually bonds best over rust, just degrease, wire brush any loose or scaly rust away, wash away the dust, dry and paint.
It also holds up well on engines, though exhaust manifolds are probably too hot for it.
It cures with moisture, and is extremely hard and resistant to scratches or chips.
The only think that seems to affect it is UV, so if exposed to direct sunlight it should be topcoated within a certain period of time.
POR-15's website has all the details on how to use it.
I've used it a lot and their claims are true.