2004 Camelot has "WARNING" light. Help on source & condition

[Fred L]

“WARNING”

Perhaps someone has had the same problem and can share some direction.

I have a 2004 Camelot, 40’ PDQ. Original owner, 110,000 miles on it. Never really any problem for all these years. Backed it into storage area in April after our winter in Florida. Pulled it out 2 weeks ago to prep for state inspection. The “WARNING” light came on and stays on. WARNING light is an indicator that “Out of range condition exists within engine protection circuits. Stop coach and check all fluid levels”. I did that and the trans was just above the fill line. I put 4 quarts over time checking so not to overfill. The Allison trans keyboard shows fluid level is ok. The engine was fine. The Anti freeze surge tank is Okay. Drove it to state inspection, it passed. WARNING light still on. Drove it home WARNING light went off. Next morning, light is back on. I have not been able to see a wiring drawing on this unit. So I really can’t trace any wiring yet.

 

All fluids are where they need to be. I’m guessing it’s a bad sending unit. The only sending unit I can find is the radiator surge tank. The tank is plastic with the probe in the side. I cannot (yet) remove the screw holding 1 wire on. I fear removing the probe because so far I have not been able to find a replacement. BIG question is why does this probe only have 1 wire?  Voltage at screw is 1.05 volt. Seems low to me. Should it be 12 v dc?

[jacwjames]

It might be your coolant level sensor.  Can you see if yours is mounted in the side or the top.  Post a picture of your surge tank.

The older top mounted type were known to cause problems, suggestion would be to remove and using a scotch bright pad to clean. 

If it is a side mount type it is probably a Ford sensor, you might try to replace. 

My low coolant level sensor works by connecting ground through the coolant.  If the coolant is low the light comes on.  You can test if this is the problem by removing the wire off the sensor and putting it ground to see if the light goes off. 

[Fred L]

I have looked at the Ford item, and it doesn't match what I have. I'll include a picture of the tank if Murphy doesn't get involved. I have to check anti-freeze level using a tube since yo can't see swat. Lousy design by people that don't have a clue in my opinion.

[96 EVO]

I've had good success seeing the level in my surge tank by shining a bright flashlight into the side of the tank.

[TomV48]

I roll then twist a paper towel. Shape it to go from cap opening to expected fluid level.  Poke it in. Pull it out. If wet hold it up to the outside to verify where that level is.   Can't see through mine without an ex ray machine.

[jacwjames]

Here is a PDF showing my Low Coolant Module, it is made by Kysor.  Not sure if you have the same.  You could try taking another wire and just grounding to the sensor on the side of the tank, if the light goes out you've got the cause.

Do you have any way of reading fault codes??

Low Coolant Module KYSOR ALARMS SERVICE AND INSTALLATION.pdf

[96 EVO]

Loads of things besides low coolant can light up the Warning lamp!

Water in your fuel separator is one of them.

Voltage swinging will also light it up. Recently had that myself!

Edited August 13, 2023 by 96 EVO

[ktloah]

I had a similar problem with my 04 Dynasty with the ISL400. Seems 1 day the WARNING light came on and did the same as you. Checked all fluids, etc. Bought a plug in scanner for diesels and it popped a code for " oil pressure sensor". This sensor was located just above the starter. Had it replaced and all is good...

[Tom Cherry]

17 hours ago, Fred L said:

“WARNING”

Perhaps someone has had the same problem and can share some direction.

I have a 2004 Camelot, 40’ PDQ. Original owner, 110,000 miles on it. Never really any problem for all these years. Backed it into storage area in April after our winter in Florida. Pulled it out 2 weeks ago to prep for state inspection. The “WARNING” light came on and stays on. WARNING light is an indicator that “Out of range condition exists within engine protection circuits. Stop coach and check all fluid levels”. I did that and the trans was just above the fill line. I put 4 quarts over time checking so not to overfill. The Allison trans keyboard shows fluid level is ok. The engine was fine. The Anti freeze surge tank is Okay. Drove it to state inspection, it passed. WARNING light still on. Drove it home WARNING light went off. Next morning, light is back on. I have not been able to see a wiring drawing on this unit. So I really can’t trace any wiring yet.

 

All fluids are where they need to be. I’m guessing it’s a bad sending unit. The only sending unit I can find is the radiator surge tank. The tank is plastic with the probe in the side. I cannot (yet) remove the screw holding 1 wire on. I fear removing the probe because so far I have not been able to find a replacement. BIG question is why does this probe only have 1 wire?  Voltage at screw is 1.05 volt. Seems low to me. Should it be 12 v dc?

One word in retrospect.  Allison days to have more faith in the electronic fluid level than the dipstick.  Make a note that whenever you havethe Allison serviced and do the complete filter change, memory says that will be 19 quarts (verify by calling Allison) drained out.  Then refill but it is OK to add 20 back in.  Then drive and check the dipstick and “mark” a small notch with a file corner on it.  Also check the electronic level.

Now, I had mine drained and the tech did other things and it, per Allison, “OVERDRAINED”.  I ended up putting back in maybe 1 1/2 quarts to get the electronic up…as i don’t have a dipstick.  Allison said to go easy, using the electronic….it said 3. They said do one.  Drive…then half quarts.

That was in 2018.  I put about 10K on it and noticed a little roughness in the downshift when exhaust brake was switched on.  I ended up putting in 1 1/2 quarts, even though the electronic said OL OK.  Cleared up the shifting…. That is just a practical example.  I would NOT add any more, but you are probably there…

What you REALLY need to know.  Who made the Instrument cluster..  Medallion or ACTI or whomever.  Get the name from looking on the back using a spy camera or phone.  Call the vendor or get the manual.  Then find out exactly “which inputs” will cause the Warning lights.  As someone posted, oil pressure sender…opps…that is NOT a “fluid level” device.

I am of the school that says take it to a shop, maybe a Cummins dealer, or one with the Cummins Insight software and have them do a scan and diagnostic.  Then have them download the entire setup or “copy” of your ECM and keep ot on a flash drive.  That is less than one hour shop charge and the best insurance policy you can have as if you ever lose your ECM, getting the correct calibration, PLUS all the Monaco variables back is a royal PITA.  We here help folks, but having your own copy is like going into the ER with “feeling” bad and them not able to access your medical history.  Yes, code readers help s lot of folks….but getting the real, indepth info and then deciding what to do is invaluable.  You need to know if it is Engine or Tranny or just some “feature” like the coolant.

Sort of like feeling really bad and using a home BP monitor and a finger Oximeter but having some serious breathing or chest pains….and then looking on WebMD for the cause and not going to the doctor….

I suspect it is something simple…but spending money on a QUALITY code reader and then guessing and trying to find out….your call…

[Duffer51]

I had this exact same issue with my 2004 Dynasty. My Dynasty, and I suspect your Camelot, have this warning light in addition to gauges. All of my gauges read okay, all of my fluid levels were okay. The issue was an oil pressure sensor. The "warning" light is a redundant system to provide some protection for those people that may not keep an eye on their gauges. 

[jacwjames]

My coach has the Cummins 8.3L ISC.  If yours is the same and it was an oil pressure sensor I would think your engine would derate.   Back ~4 years ago another Monaco Windsor contacted me and I helped him work through issues with his newly purchased rig.  He had a check engine light on and the rig would derate, it would run/drive but not accelerate.   We went through all the possible suspects and I finally suggested it might be the oil pressure sensor.  Problem is that Cummins changed the sensor to a switch.  The sensor would read the oil pressure and report in psi, mine ranges from ~20psi at idle to +60psi and highway speed.  A switch will read Zero or 55 psi. 

So the individual I worked with was able to get his rig to a shop and they diagnosed the oil pressure sensor but the fix was to replace with the switch ($45) and then reprogrammed the EMC ($325), which fixed the problem.   So if I had this done my Silverleaf would report 55psi. 

If my oil pressure sensor fails I did not want a switch so after doing some research I found a part number of a sensor that "should" work.  A poster on IRV2 bought one and did install and his ECM reports the correct psi.  PN 4921511.  I did buy one to carry as a spare but have not tested. 

[03executive]

Hi guys,

 For what it's worth, I vote for bad cell in one of the start battery's. Check voltage under load.

Tx

[Fred L]

I greatly appreciate all the input. A lot of food for thought. The dash has warning lights for everything. While the description for "WARNING", refers to check all fluid levels. Seems strange that there is a low coolant light and that isn't on. 

I had the RV serviced by a certified Cummins and Allison shop 2/3 years ago. The bill shows 20 qts filling.

I don't plan on buying a scanner. The shop no longer works on RV's. To many styles and they decided to get away from them. They did give me the name of a company that they refer people to. I have spoken to the owner and will probably take it there.

I would like to find the installer of wire harness that Tom Cherry indicated. Where is that listed. On the back side of Dash Board? Most of the problems in 20 years has been digging for the info. Especially after the Monaco going under.

Thanks again to all.

[jacwjames]

You might consider buying and engine monitoring system, if your rig doesn't have one, that also has the ability to display fault codes.  I use a Silverleaf VMSpc (not available now) and I rely on it for all the critical display.  Oil psi, engine/transmission temp, volts, boost, etc.  My rig doesn't move until I get the display up and running. 

It also has the ability to display fault codes. 

[96 EVO]

53 minutes ago, Fred L said:

  They did give me the name of a company that they refer people to. I have spoken to the owner and will probably take it there.

 

Let us know what they find.

[Ivan K]

Long shot but not all warnings are necessarily coming from the ECM. I had one once and no codes whatsoever. Check if you have a level switch on windshield washer reservoir just in case.

[Fred L]

I actually did check that when looking at all fluids. It does not have a check. 

[Tom Cherry]

9 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Long shot but not all warnings are necessarily coming from the ECM. I had one once and no codes whatsoever. Check if you have a level switch on windshield washer reservoir just in case.

Nope….NOT a long shot.  There are warnings on fluids and other things that Monaco added and Cummins did not use or have input on the ECM.  The gauge cluster harness if full of leads. The logic was between Monaco engineering and the gauge folks.  Yes, a scanner might tell you a code that the ECM threw. BUT, a warning on avdash cluster could be a faulty wire grounding itself out.  My Camelot has NO bay or genny or rear hatch microswitch.  But the gauge cluster has an input forbsuch…warning light and audible and, fortunately, an icon.  Monaco left that wire in the harness on the Camelots.  It got nicked.  Tech support said find the bad switch…opps, you do NOT have switches,  nicked wire…good luck.

I am an advocate of eliminating the issues that the “OBD” plug reads…and some scanners don’t provide enough or specific info.  Get Cummins Insight to read.  No issues….find out what inputs on the Gauge cluster will trigger the WARNING light, but not giva an icon…then you have a pathway 

[ktloah]

Hey Duffer, my problem on the ISL 400 was in fact the oil pressure sensor. Monaco always used 2 oil pressure  sensors. One for the ECM, one for the dash gouges. Cummins also has an oil pressure sensor too! That is the one that went bad on my 04 Dynasty...10$ part, and 990$ to diagnose and repair...PS for the others reading this, I do not have any emissions on my coach...

[Fred L]

Just an update. Surprising it took a lot longer to find a Cummins dealer with the "Cummins Insight software". Next was to find one willing to look at it. And finally getting a date. I was able to setup just after labor day. They really don't want to work on it. If it's anything other than oil pressure unit, I'll need to take it elsewhere. It's a start. I'll continue updates as I go. Thanks again to all.

[Fred L]

last update;

I finally had the RV checked by a company with Cummins software suggested by Tom Cherry. Code 141 showed a problem with oil pressure, however gauge showed plenty of pressure. I'll assume this sensor is different than physical gauge. Checked all wiring and pins. R&R switch cleared codes and code went inactive. $957 later, we're ready to roll.

Thanks to all and for suggestions.

[Ivan K]

Thanks for the follow-up. That's one expensive sender but at least you know that you are good to go.

[Tom Cherry]

5 hours ago, Fred L said:

last update;

I finally had the RV checked by a company with Cummins software suggested by Tom Cherry. Code 141 showed a problem with oil pressure, however gauge showed plenty of pressure. I'll assume this sensor is different than physical gauge. Checked all wiring and pins. R&R switch cleared codes and code went inactive. $957 later, we're ready to roll.

Thanks to all and for suggestions.

As I heard one guy say when he got his car fixed....after months of frustration....  I am one more HAPPY, but POORER Guy...  I had to break the news to my daughter that my GD's 2011 car would have to have the "Front Passenger Occupancy Sensor" replaced.....as the SRS or Air Bag system light was blinking.  Like out MPX circuits, if the brain ain't happy....then it shuts down the entire Air Bag Safety system....and refuses to talk until the bad sensor is replaced.  The idiotic OEM sensor was $1,700 and the Labor was $550 and she had already paid $250 for the service diagnostic.  FORTUNATELY, I arranged for the Sensor to be sold at "Dealer....saved her over $700....but at least it will be OEM and fixed and my GK's and passengers will be safe.  My GD is TIRED of not being able to go over 45 MPH and stay off highways.

YES....Some of us feel the pain....glad it is fixed....  The Cummins Insite (Frank corrected my SPELLING) is great....as long as someone knows HOW to use it and decipher the codes...and there are a FEW that have the software but past that point....they are clueless...

You sound like you found a good one....