2002 Windsor Essex door & bay auto locking system issues and questions

[Dr4Film]

4 minutes ago, JerryC said:

Thanks everyone for the comments and suggestions here. For the first time, the touch pad on my new to me '02 Signature works! Continuing to work through the list of things that didn't or still don't work... which started as about everything. This forum has been extremely helpful. On with the next item - refrigerator!

Since this is your first post in this thread, what was your problem and how did you correct it based on the comments here?

[Verde_Windsor]

Moderator Edit.  
This was the first post in a new topic that was similar in content and questions of an going topic that has pertinent information and has been merged for better responses.

End of Edit.

HI guys

Maybe I am paranoid type. Or maybe I dont want to be involve in situations I dont want to be in. So here what Im thinking of - Lock button to lock everything from inside. Like every other modern car on road today. Any thoughts? 

[nvrtoofast]

You're not Paranoid. That makes complete sense and gives peace of mind. Mainly after you've taken off your pants, it's 40 degrees outside and begin to wonder if you locked the bay doors.

No..... I've never done that.....

You would think "well use the key fob". But remember that there wasn't one with the rig when you bought it.  

Interested to see how you do this.

[Guest Ray Davis]

My original remote still works and it locks the bay doors.  So yes I use that feature often.   Several members have updated the remote lock system and apparently, it's not a difficult job.  With that in mind, I think I would see if I could get it working.          Maybe someone that has installed a new system will chime in.  

Good luck with it.

[Steve P]

Another alternative would be to install a security system like Simplisafe to provide comprehensive monitoring of entry sensors on the Bay doors and the main door, motion sensors, and temperature sensors as well as water sensors for leaks.   Arm the system in home or away mode and regardless of whether the door is locked or not it will alarm if someone opens it.   Temperature sensors are great for protecting your pets and monitoring the status of your fridge and freezer.  Water sensors under your sinks and in the water Bay and in the water heater compartment can help prevent the consequences of unobserved leaks.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Steve P

[Kevin Clark]

Hi everyone! I was able to program a new master code. I can now get the entry door to lock and unlock.  I can get the baggage doors to LOCK but not UNLOCK. It seems I am not inputting the correct command.

After entering my master code, I have tried pushing 7/8 to unlock the baggage doors and get a confirmation beep from the keypad but nothing happens.  I also don't hear the relay clocking inside the same way I do when they lock. Trying other digits after the master code also has no effect.

Any other ideas from the hive mind?

[wamcneil]

Did you try pressing one of the other aux output keys? Nevermind... you said that you tried that. Sorry.

The system works by grounding a wire on the keypad. This is basically a low-side switch on the relay coil which, which triggers the relay. If you get behind the keypad and jumper the 7/8 aux output wire to ground, it should actuate the Unlock relays for the bay doors. That'll tell you if you have a problem with the keypad or with the coach wiring

If the keypad is the problem, you could try swapping the bay door unlock signal from the 7/8 aux  wire to one of the other unused aux wires.

You should have 12v coming from the coach wiring to that 7/8 wire on the keypad. That's voltage going through the relay's coil, and the keypad shunts that to ground when you press the 7/8 button. If you don't have 12v on that wire, there's something wrong with the coach wiring or with the relay(s)

Edited August 23, 2023 by wamcneil

[Just Jim]

On my keypad I press the unlock code then the 9 button to unlock the bays.  Sounds like you are getting close.  I know this is obvious, but check to make sure the wiring in the bays is plugged in.... my prior owner said that he got tired of being locked out and unplugged several of them. 

[Tom Cherry]

7 hours ago, Kevin Clark said:

Hi everyone! I was able to program a new master code. I can now get the entry door to lock and unlock.  I can get the baggage doors to LOCK but not UNLOCK. It seems I am not inputting the correct command.

After entering my master code, I have tried pushing 7/8 to unlock the baggage doors and get a confirmation beep from the keypad but nothing happens.  I also don't hear the relay clocking inside the same way I do when they lock. Trying other digits after the master code also has no effect.

Any other ideas from the hive mind?

First...  Do some GOOGLING....for example, this is what you supposedly have from another site... and you, from at least three posts to verify MOST likely have...

 (Essex model KE-1603)

Next up....continue to read these threads as our "Cache" of older (in body only) Windsor members, who were like walking text books is dwindling....so here goes....

The coach is shipped with a universal Master Code.
To personalize your code, please do the following:

HOW TO PROGRAM YOUR KEYLESS ENTRY SYSTEM

TO UNLOCK COACH: (DEFAULT)
1. Push each button once, from left to right. 1-3-5-7-9
2. Push "9" button once more within 5 seconds of step 1 to unlock bay doors.
TO LOCK COACH:
1. Push either 5-5-5 or 5-5-9
TO CHANGE THE MASTER CODE (PERSONALIZE)
1. Locate and press the programming switch.
Usually found inside the passenger side armrest, under the cupholder.
2. Four rapid beeps will sound.
3. Enter 1-1-1-9 on the keypad.
4. Three rapid beeps will sound.
5. Enter your personal code. (3-8 numbers)
6. Wait 5 seconds for 2 rapid beeps.
7. Test the new PERSONAL CODE.
8. If the new code doesn't work repeat steps 1-7.

It might take you several tries until it works correctly. Since the reprogramming is time dependent, if you don't enter everything within those time constraints, it will fail to reprogram.

CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE DOOR KEYS BEFORE TESTING THE NEW MASTER USER CODE

Or have your locksmith's number handy........good luck

OK...now I continued to be inquisitive....and here is what you need...the MANUAL...

http://www.keyless.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/KE1603UserGuide.pdf

Past that....if everything works, as in the BRAIN is OK, then you need to start by using your VOM and the keypad and having someone, with the VOM hooked up to the Solenoid terminals, Run the test and see if you are getting the 12 VDC signal to every lock.  I have the TriMark...but the principle is the same.  ALL bay LOCKS are on ONE circuit.  Send out the SIGNAL...and then they Either LOCK or UNLOCK... Verify the signal.  Then keep trouble shooting.  This should get you started.

@Frank McElroy  We still have a lot of Windsors out there.  Can you combine the above simple programming info onto one sheet and then "insert" it into the PDF or use it as a cover.  Thanks...

 

 

[Kevin Clark]

2 hours ago, Just Jim said:

On my keypad I press the unlock code then the 9 button to unlock the bays.  Sounds like you are getting close.  I know this is obvious, but check to make sure the wiring in the bays is plugged in.... my prior owner said that he got tired of being locked out and unplugged several of them. 

It's a fair thing to check.  The doors lock just fine - they just won't unlock.

[wamcneil]

On 8/21/2023 at 10:09 PM, Verde_Windsor said:

HI guys

Maybe I am paranoid type. Or maybe I dont want to be involve in situations I dont want to be in. So here what Im thinking of - Lock button to lock everything from inside. Like every other modern car on road today. Any thoughts? 

Do you have the Essex keypad by the door?

It would be very simple to add a momentary contact switch inside the door to trigger the lock relays

[nvrtoofast]

1 hour ago, wamcneil said:

Do you have the Essex keypad by the door?

It would be very simple to add a momentary contact switch inside the door to trigger the lock relays

Please elaborate.

[Verde_Windsor]

yes and yes. I have a keypad and only one remote. Which I keep safe. You right, maybe by pressing keyfob it will lock everything. Haven't tried yet.  Adding momentary button shouldn't be hard - agree. I just procasinate to touch dashboard. Its whole new project... So many thins to do there... I would like to change placements of buttons as well. Keeping this project for a winter.

[Tom Cherry]

7 hours ago, Verde_Windsor said:

yes and yes. I have a keypad and only one remote. Which I keep safe. You right, maybe by pressing keyfob it will lock everything. Haven't tried yet.  Adding momentary button shouldn't be hard - agree. I just procasinate to touch dashboard. Its whole new project... So many thins to do there... I would like to change placements of buttons as well. Keeping this project for a winter.

@Verde_Windsor

There was another topic that was ongoing on the Essex security and auto door & bay locking system in a 2002 Windsor. Therefore the topics were merged.  Your question about a “remote” interior lock button and how tge system works has been discussed to a greater length here.  Suggest you start at the beginning and read/scroll for general information.

Based on my knowledge of the Trimark system I have and the similarities of the two systems, I don’t think there was an option for a “hard wired” interior auto lock switch or button.  I, like others, use a keyfog at night to “lockup”.  You need to do some research on your Essex model KE-1603.

You can also contact Essex or google an installation manual for it.  We have a comprehensive set of prints and instructions on it including the schematics.  I will put the link to those at the end.  I don’t know if this includes the instructions for installation, but that is probably “out there” if you do the research.  If you find more information, please post it here and @Frank McElroy , who maintains our files will add it to the files.  FWIW, it helps to do a search before creating a new topic.  You can use the search box in the upper right…. Key word would be ESSEX…which is what I used….then click on EVERYWHERE and select TOPICS.  You would,have found this one as it had the word Essex in a post.  In addition if you did a search for Essex, then selected FILES, that brought up the link below.

Should give you and others a little more knowledge and insight…and that cuts down on speculation about issues and prevents folks from assuming that their rig has the same system or just general information.  Then the comments are more focused and solving the problem or getting concise factual information is greatly imoroved.

 OK….this was intriguing and I got curious.  After a cursory look at the wiring diagram, “adding a momentary” contact switch, IS possible….but without knowing the exact circuitry and also knowing that “gee…this ought to work” has been known to destroy things…I have done my fair share of that, I would be cautious.  But, I think, if you are really interesed do do the research, it CAN be done,  BUT, I would NOT attempt to add in a parallel switch contact signal, even with a diode, for fear of an upstream “UH OH” issue on the board.  BUT this would work….but NO GUARANTEES..  so you have to draw out the circuit and then understand and then “no guarantees”.  
 

We have a drawing for a 1704 and you have a 1603.  You need the drawing, from Essex, for the 1603.  NOW….assuming they are the same….there are two signals from the “remote” or the Keyfob controller.  Orange LOCKS…but is a momentary GROUND….  White unlocks and is also a Momentary ground.  Now CAUTION…based on a member frying all his Trimmark bay solenoids….if the signal is longer…as in held on for say a minute…BINGO, the coils were damaged and he had to replace them all.  He did find out that Monaco used the lower end and that there was a higher end….fit perfect and it was NOT as susceptible to a long signal.  He found this out by accidentally, while probing around the controller, shorted (presumably to ground) one of the Lock or UNLock circuits…and didn’t realize it….and then spent, many years ago, over $1,000 for 7 new bay solenoids and a new door lock solenoid.  So….a MISTAKE might be costly…

BUT….if you decide to add…you will need two relays (Bosch) and a SPST switch Momentary Contact…spring loaded and OFF and a SPDT Momentary Contact - Center OFF switch.  You install a relay for Lock and Unlock.  Then you move the input side of White and Orange to the two relays….White relay and Orange relay.  White goes to terminal 30 of the White Relay and Orange to terminal 30 of the Orange relay.  You move the remote side (the controller) output side or the other end of the wire tomthe 87A terminals.  Then you ground out the center contact of the SPDT Momentary ON “Lock/Unlock switch.  The Lock or the contact that sends the ground signal goes to terminal 87 on the Orange.  ditto for the White relay.

It works like this.  You hold ON (energize) the coils of the two relays…not that interrupts the two ground signal inputs from the remote keyfob.  While holding on the Manual relays, then you select Lock or Unlock and push the SPDT Momentary ON switch   Push it one way…say LOCK and the ground signal goes to the “brain”.  IMMEDIATELY let off BOTH switches…back to full auto and your fobs work.  Same for UNLOCK.  The Manual (spring loaded” is NC in the Auto (non energized) position….all is well.  But then you push the Manual switch to MANUAL and then select which modd you want.  The controller is protected…unless there is a “chafe” or unless someone unknowingly holds on the direction switch too long.

YES…a bit far out….but unless you can find an Aux Input on the controller for a remote switch…it would work.  In the REAL world or another step to protect, you run the ground signal (from the direction switch) through a countdown timer and set the value to say 15 seconds…therefore when the timer times out….the pulse or ground shuts off…and younare protected.

No more caffeine for me…and YES, many of our members have done similar non conventional things to accomplish a task that they felt the need for.

If you luck out and find a used, second remote….use it.  Some of us carry one and leave the other inside and use it for just what you want…the LOCK IT UP AT NIGHT function….a LOT simpler…but you specifically wanted a “interior button”.

AGAIN, on paper this works…but you have to decide to do it and I AM ABSOLVED of any expressed or otherwise or implied warranties…  LOL…

 

[wamcneil]

Oh my goodness... my head is spinning. hard to process all of that...

I don't know anything about the trimark systems, but for anyone with an essex keypad its really very simple. Just jumper the Lock wire to the System Ground wire inside your passenger armrest and it'll actuate the locks just exactly like if you press 555.

Or... you could jumper the Remote Lock wire to ground. That one does the same thing and is actually made for an external switch.

The beauty of a low-side switch is that you can put as many switches as you want in the circuit downstream of the load and they all work the same.

Here's how the essex keypad works:

• When you press 555 it makes in internal connection between the Lock wire and the System Ground wire.
• When you press your 4-digit code, it makes an internal connection between the Unlock wire and the System Ground wire.
  • And then when you then press the 7/8 button it makes an internal connection between the Auxiliary Output wire and the System Ground wire.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by wamcneil

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, wamcneil said:

Oh my goodness... my head is spinning. hard to process all of that...

I don't know anything about the trimark systems, but for anyone with an essex keypad its really very simple. Just jumper the Lock wire to the System Ground wire inside your passenger armrest and it'll actuate the locks just exactly like if you press 555.

Or... you could jumper the Remote Lock wire to ground. That one does the same thing and is actually made for an external switch.

The beauty of a low-side switch is that you can put as many switches as you want in the circuit downstream of the load and they all work the same.

Here's how the essex keypad works:

• When you press 555 it makes in internal connection between the Lock wire and the System Ground wire.
• When you press your 4-digit code, it makes an internal connection between the Unlock wire and the System Ground wire.
  • And then when you then press the 7/8 button it makes an internal connection between the Auxiliary Output wire and the System Ground wire.

 

What I OFFERED, is the “our legal team” said to have a disclaimer.  Of course, you could do it they way you recommended.  But, we have had too many members misinterpret a simple suggestion and not fully understand.  Regardless of the system, most likely….and I urge you to call Essex and ask, if there is a CONTINUOUS ground signal to the solenoids, will they be damaged?  Trimark we know about.  Essex, unless documented, we, or I don’t and someone may know or will chime in.

If you followed, and I didn’t want to post a circuit that might damage for fear of messing up a system, the logic.  You isolate the ground signal coming from the keyfob remote via a relay.  That prevents any feedback.  Yes…a ground should be a ground…but I do not want the responsibility for destroying a system.  Thus, I added in the interim relay as an isolation device.  The Auto/Manual relays protect the controller and the Momentary Contact Lock/UnLock switch is then the ONLY ground signal in the circuit.  Overkill.  Probably.  But the controller has safeguards on the length of the pulse.  Kids and pets have been known to cause issues…we see that all the time.  A “two hand” control, interlocked, is what I often designed or tested on manufacturing equipment to prevent injuries or amputations, when I was the Safety Director but also a “electronic and process control” internal consultant

Thus, my approach.  If you do some more research, please post and comment on the circuit you recommended….KISS is better, but “First do NO harm” is the moderating staff’s mantra.

Thanks for the post

[wamcneil]

22 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

...Regardless of the system, most likely….and I urge you to call Essex and ask, if there is a CONTINUOUS ground signal to the solenoids, will they be damaged?  ...

No, sorry... I don't follow... what is this CONTINUOUS ground signal of which you speak?

We're talking about the installation of a momentary contact switch. If you look at the essex wiring diagram, you'll see that it's actually set up for just such a switch (Remote Lock/Remote Unlock). Hopefully there's no need for a manual interlock... I'm pretty sure there's no danger of amputation here. Buy hey, safety first. You never know... 🤐

If you look down at the bottom of the essex wiring diagrams, they actually show how a wireless module should be connected, (ie- a remote-controlled momentary contact switch).

On a side note, the instructions are really confusing in that respect. Monaco did NOT connect the wireless module like that diagram, and their instructions are not particularly useful for the connection of the separate wireless module, that is actually totally speparate and not connected to the essex keypad at all.

Edited August 24, 2023 by wamcneil

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, wamcneil said:

No, sorry... I don't follow... what is this CONTINUOUS ground signal of which you speak?

We're talking about the installation of a momentary contact switch. If you look at the essex wiring diagram, you'll see that it's actually set up for just such a switch (Remote Lock/Remote Unlock).

And if you look down at the bottom of the essex wiring diagrams, they actually show how a wireless module should be connected, (ie- a remote-controlled momentary contact switch).

On a side note, the instructions are really confusing in that respect. Monaco did NOT connect the wireless module like that diagram, and their instructions are not particularly useful for the connection of the separate wireless module, that is actually totally speparate and not connected to the essex keypad at all.

OK…. If you have a continuous ground signal to a door or bay lock, as in a switch…it has the potential for burning up the solenoid ahd that has happened a few times due to a chafed wire or actually bumping the controller or “probing” and the ground circuit was ON or continuous.

The Essex Controller takes the pulse or signal from either  the Keyfob receiver or the keypad.  That signal is NOT sent directly to the solenoid.  There is a timer (chip) on the PCB.  So, the actual ground signal or circuit that you see…the OUPUT side…not the input one, is a PULSE…or a signal.  20 milliseconds or 100 or whatever, I don’t know,  but it is a pulse and does not, I think, depend on the solenoid giving a feedback. M

OK.  Add in your switch.  If it is easy for a pet or a child to play and hold it DOWN…odds are…all solenoids are fried.  Likewise, go the the INPUT side…same deal.

The circuit that I outlined is pretty simple.  You use the INPUT side…thus, the Pulse or signal comes from the controller.  But, to prevent any feed back…which could harm the keyfob receiver, i added in a disconnect relay.  The Keyfob input is shut off.  Then, the manual Lock/Unlock ground signal activates the controller and NOT directly on the output.  That is the way to prevent damage.  The lockout or interlock relay only breaks the input circuit via two relays…lock and unlock.  When you want to manually lock…push and hold the Manual switch…both relays are energized and you break or cut off the keyfob input. Then, briefly hold the Lock/Unlock momentary switch.  That sends a ground signal to the controller…via the normal keyfob input.  Holding longer is not recommended, but the actual lock unlock signal comes from the controller.  YES…go ahead and put on a ground to the input circuit.  But, what if backfeeding a ground to the keyfob receiver shorts it out.  BAD.  The foolproof way is to disconnect, when needed, the input and then give it a ground…. That simple.  My “timer” was an overkill as the keyfob circuit is probably quick…and I don’t know how the controller will work to a longer hold (switch on)…and don’t or would not take that risk.

You nor I can not say how the electronics work…but by using the isolation relays, there is no chance of backfeeding the keyfob relay.  If you call Essex and they say…switch on the input (ground) or the output and don’t worry about backfeeding…fine…but I am not going down that path…and have stated the logic again…

we moderators have to assess the risks and then comment on the situation and I believe there is a probability of damaging the keyfob controller with a parallel ground switch…as I do with putting the switch on the output side.  So, disconnect the input…send a ground to the controller…and use the interlocking relays is a foolproof method…or at least in my experience….

As long as the OP understands the risks and the options, then, that is all we can do…but we have a mission statement to comment on modifications that have, without documentation or tech support, the potential for internal damage…

Hope you understand the situation and respect the need for pointing out a potentially damaging solution.  NOW, if you talk to Essex, and I request,  and can make them understand what you recommended …and send them your print and they say. OK…post that…and let the OP decide…

Thats where it stands….

[Verde_Windsor]

WOW!!! 🫡 You guys are awesome! 👍 I took few days to process received information.

And I have to say THANK YOU. The idea of using isolation relay.... Love it.