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Will My Lithium RV Batteries Catch on Fire?

Scotty Hutto

By Scotty Hutto
in Batteries

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Rocketman3

Rocketman3

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Since installing my Lithium’s- solar and batteries has became a serious hobby for me.

if you are getting Lithium’s make sure and get the LiFePO4 - lithium iron phosphate. Don’t get the used Telsa model S modules or make your own with other Lithium chemistries.

Also make sure you have a good BMS (Battery Management System) setup.

if you mistreat them they can have issues- so can lead batteries and propane systems and the gas and diesel fuel.

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klcdenver

klcdenver

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I am not of fan of lithium batteries. I am a licensed plane mechanic & pilot and yes some planes are certified to and are using lithium batteries now. There is extra monitoring and checks that have to be performed to use these batteries in planes. At this time my opinion the cost way to expensive for what you get. The Jet I fly cost over 80,000.00 for 2 batteries and the upgrade to lithium. 

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JDCrow

JDCrow

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22 minutes ago, klcdenver said:

I am not of fan of lithium batteries. I am a licensed plane mechanic & pilot and yes some planes are certified to and are using lithium batteries now. There is extra monitoring and checks that have to be performed to use these batteries in planes. At this time my opinion the cost way to expensive for what you get. The Jet I fly cost over 80,000.00 for 2 batteries and the upgrade to lithium. 

Wow.

 

We’ve had a few fires in town from cheap e-bikes charging in garages. The cheap stuff doesn’t like water, at all

https://ktvz.com/news/fire/2022/10/04/nw-bend-garage-fire-apparently-sparked-by-older-e-bikes-failed-lithium-battery/

 

 

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timaz996

timaz996

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1 hour ago, JDCrow said:

Wow.

 

We’ve had a few fires in town from cheap e-bikes charging in garages. The cheap stuff doesn’t like water, at all

https://ktvz.com/news/fire/2022/10/04/nw-bend-garage-fire-apparently-sparked-by-older-e-bikes-failed-lithium-battery/

 

 

Especially salt water. 

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Guest Ray Davis

Guest Ray Davis

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On TV they talked about how hard it is to put out an EV fire and they have a new tool that rolls up under a vehicle somewhat like a floor jack then it punches a hole in the battery pack so it can flood it with water.

There was a goober here in No Tex driving his EV like he was at a race. He lost control, did all kinds of flips and of course, it caught fire.  It took 30,000 gals to put it out.    The problem is they are shooting water from the top and not much is getting inside the battery.  The device above puts water inside the batt.

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Scotty Hutto

Scotty Hutto

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My daughter is a firefighter on the Haz-Mat team for Dekalb County here in Atlanta. They cover spaghetti junction (I-285 & I-85 - the busiest place in ATL) and if a Tesla catches on fire, they don’t even try to put it out.  They just try to keep the concrete cool so it doesn’t ruin the bridge or roadway…

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K9 Exec

K9 Exec

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This response will probably draw ire and controversy, so please know this is not directed at anyone- just my $.02 worth. I am not trying to persuade anyone or start any trouble, so please don't take it that way. Tone and emotion are hard to discern via text/email. 🙂

1. LifePO4 is an amazing chemistry, hands down. It blows Flooded lead acid, AGM, NiMh and most other chemistries away as far as performance goes. The cost is another story. I remember when Nickel Metal Hydride batteries started becoming readily available in 1994-1995 commercially, the same conversations were being had. Whenever something new comes out, the cost is significantly higher then drops by 25-50% once it catches on, in my experience. The cost is the biggest downside with going lithium, period. If it has a BMS (Battery Management System) built in, it is (from the manufacturer) typically safe. There are a few big names out there that are still not UL approved but people still buy them and assume the risk, because they are generally safe and have proven to be good. Not that I would ever say go out and do this, but I have seen a crowbar (short) test on a bank of these batteries, I ran the other way when the engineer said 'watch this,' nothing happened. Each of the BMS in the batteries did their job, then once the short was removed- voila! The batteries were alive again with zero damage. Try that with a SLA, AGM, FLA and see what happens...

2. I was a volunteer firefighter when the Toyota Prius was in its infancy with the 'Hybrids.' Sadly, one of our guys was killed while responding to a Prius fire which changed the industry for the better, after his death and a lawsuit, we were able to get all kinds of resources to smaller departments, but the best was the training. These batteries contain a lot of energy and do not mix well with water. A typical car fire takes about 500 gallons of water to contain and extinguish, from my understanding regarding containment with the new Tesla battery once they catch- you let them burn. Water will only help fuel the fire, and will definitely start one if a car is submerged. Source: Hurricane Ian Sept 30, 2022. St. Pete Fl. It was all over the news, the car was submerged then once the salt water receded- it was barbecue time. 

3. As a private pilot, I would not install a Lithium Iron Phosphate batt in my aircraft, yet. With a plane it is all about weight and CG. The current batt weighs 81 lbs, a LifePO4 is 34, a weight savings of 47 lbs, which means more cargo or more fuel I can carry. 🙂 With an RV, I feel comfortable installing and running the lithium batts with solar charging them. I have been doing this for 20 years and have never seen so much hate for one item, people either love them or hate them. I have found some of the folks that look at the initial cost, have immediate hatred and seem to come up with ways to steer folks away from them. "You know Joe, those batteries have been known to spontaneously catch on fire, and if you are sleeping, you won't make it out alive." I worry more about LP and fire. Why you ask- because I had a total loss fire from LP. I lost a puppy in the fire, it was devastating.

 I know guys that put together grade B cells, use china cheap BMS' and hope for the best, all to save a few dollars. I won't do that for myself or my customers. Not trying to name any big name companies, but one that has done it right in my opinion is BattleBorn out of NV. I know a few guys out there that work behind the scenes and have said there have only been a handful of issues with their batteries, most being the BMS going dead. They ship out a new battery to the installer or customer when they call with an issue, then never hear from them again because the issues are so rare. They do have a 10 yr warranty. I have owned them, I do like them other than price- but they do use high end BMS and cells. No garbage. 

The weight saving is great, they take abuse unlike FLA, AGM, SLA, etc., and you can run them down to 0% (which means there is 10 % left to keep the BMS running) without damaging them, no boiling-and generally no issues. Other than a steep investment. 

Okay, I am off of my soapbox. You guys have been great to me, you are my family on the road. If I offended anyone, don't take it personally- I am just trying to help out where I see fit. 

 

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