Ceramic tile advice - please!

[Newcsn]

Well, the time has come for a refresh of the floors in our 2006 Dynasty Diamond IV! We are leaning toward replacing it in the same configuration: ceramic tile where there’s tile & carpet where carpet. I’d value some feedback from anyone who has replaced their ceramic tile w/ ceramic tile!

I have the majority of the tile removed & found a couple interesting things & wonder if anyone can shed some light on them.

You can see there is a red membrane under the thinset that appears to be adhered to the underlayment. However, as you can see, there was none on the floor in the bathroom. What is the membrane & why wouldn’t they have continued it in the bathroom? BTW - this is where we had major tile delamination.

My plan is to use a 5” diamond cup wheel to grind all thinset off the subfloor in prep for new ceramic tile. What type membrane should I put under the thinset prior to installing tile?

I plan to use an ultra-flex thinset w/ polymers. Any recommendations on the best one(s) to use in one of these rocking beasts?

Also, I don’t have the benefit of an indoor space to do the flooring replacement or keep opposing front slides open at the same while removing old tile. The front slide on the driver’s side is a flush floor slide & I noticed when it is fully retracted the leading edge (vinyl glide bar) appears to rest on the tile. Once I remove the old tile, will it harm the slide to move it in & out w/o something under the glide bar? I sure don’t want to damage the bar or the slide while replacing the tile.

Thank you for chiming in!

 

 

[Rick A]

I removed the tiles but I didn’t have huge patches of adhesive left on the plywood like you appear to have so I used a wide metal paint scraper and wooden hammer. That avoided the awful dust experience. 

[Ivan K]

The grinder will make a huge mess. When I had to fix some tiles in the house, I modified a see through box covering my hand with the grinder and with an attached hose to shop vac. Almost no dust this way. Any chance you had heated floor in that section?

[Newcsn]

30 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

The grinder will make a huge mess. When I had to fix some tiles in the house, I modified a see through box covering my hand with the grinder and with an attached hose to shop vac. Almost no dust this way. Any chance you had heated floor in that section?

@Ivan K Thanks for the feedback! No, no heated floors in our coach. As for the "mess" I found a shroud that goes around my grinder head & attaches to my shop vac. From all the reviews this eliminates about 90% of the mess. We'll see!

Diment Power Surface Grinding Dust Shroud for Angle Grinder 115mm / 125mm （4 inch / 5 inch） https://a.co/d/76WEV5Z

1 hour ago, Rick A said:

I removed the tiles but I didn’t have huge patches of adhesive left on the plywood like you appear to have so I used a wide metal paint scraper and wooden hammer. That avoided the awful dust experience. 

@Rick A Thanks! Did you go back w/ ceramic tile?

[Newcsn]

After a bit more exploration it appears the "red" material was some sort of liquid that was poured/painted on the underlayment prior to the thinset. After I removed a couple more pieces of trim you could see where the pour/paint ended. Wonder what that stuff is?

[jacwjames]

I wonder if this is the red tint material https://www.homedepot.com/p/Custom-Building-Products-RedGard-1-Gal-Waterproofing-and-Crack-Prevention-Membrane-LQWAF1/100169081

There are other products like this, Lowes sells Aquadefense which I used when I did all three of the shower/bath areas when I built our house.   https://www.lowes.com/pd/MAPEI-Mapelastic-Aquadefense-1-Gallon-Liquid-Membrane/5014036803

Both say crack isolation membrane.  I'd never seen anyone mention this type of product being used in Monaco coaches but it definitely couldn't hurt.  I goes on pretty easy and the Aquadefense I used dried pretty fast.   It also protects against moisture intrusion, I used it in the walk in shower and two tub surrounds I tiled. 

You use the somewhat generic term of ceramic tile, which normally is a clay based tile that has a glaze over it.  My experience with ceramic is it cracks and chips easy and doesn't like point loading.   I helped a friend install ceramic tile in a new house he was building.  Not many years later he pulled it all up and put down laminate flooring.  I asked why and he said the tile was cracking, mostly in the kitchen area and he finally figured out what was causing it, his SIL was very heavy and she'd stand on her tippy toes to reach something in the cabinet and snap, a tile would break. 

A better choice would be a porcelain tile, which is much more durable (IMHO).   Lots of choices out there, a good place to source is Floors & Decor if you have one near you.  They have a huge selection at very good prices. 

Also if you have an oscillating saw you might try it, it might bring up the old thin set pretty quick. 

Good Luck

 

[Rick A]

No my wife wanted a really good quality vinyl because it’s better for summer and winter. The tiles were very cold in winter up in Victoria BC. As an added bonus removing,  the tiles removed about 250lbs. 

2 hours ago, Newcsn said:

@Ivan K Thanks for the feedback! No, no heated floors in our coach. As for the "mess" I found a shroud that goes around my grinder head & attaches to my shop vac. From all the reviews this eliminates about 90% of the mess. We'll see!

Diment Power Surface Grinding Dust Shroud for Angle Grinder 115mm / 125mm （4 inch / 5 inch） https://a.co/d/76WEV5Z

@Rick A Thanks! Did you go back w/ ceramic tile?

No my wife wanted a really good quality vinyl because it’s better for summer and winter. The tiles were very cold in winter up in Victoria BC. As an added bonus removing,  the tiles removed about 250lbs

 

[Newcsn]

45 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I wonder if this is the red tint material https://www.homedepot.com/p/Custom-Building-Products-RedGard-1-Gal-Waterproofing-and-Crack-Prevention-Membrane-LQWAF1/100169081

There are other products like this, Lowes sells Aquadefense which I used when I did all three of the shower/bath areas when I built our house.   https://www.lowes.com/pd/MAPEI-Mapelastic-Aquadefense-1-Gallon-Liquid-Membrane/5014036803

Both say crack isolation membrane.  I'd never seen anyone mention this type of product being used in Monaco coaches but it definitely couldn't hurt.  I goes on pretty easy and the Aquadefense I used dried pretty fast.   It also protects against moisture intrusion, I used it in the walk in shower and two tub surrounds I tiled. 

You use the somewhat generic term of ceramic tile, which normally is a clay based tile that has a glaze over it.  My experience with ceramic is it cracks and chips easy and doesn't like point loading.   I helped a friend install ceramic tile in a new house he was building.  Not many years later he pulled it all up and put down laminate flooring.  I asked why and he said the tile was cracking, mostly in the kitchen area and he finally figured out what was causing it, his SIL was very heavy and she'd stand on her tippy toes to reach something in the cabinet and snap, a tile would break. 

A better choice would be a porcelain tile, which is much more durable (IMHO).   Lots of choices out there, a good place to source is Floors & Decor if you have one near you.  They have a huge selection at very good prices. 

Also if you have an oscillating saw you might try it, it might bring up the old thin set pretty quick. 

Good Luck

 

@jacwjames Thanks - I think you’re right - it’s RedGard! Thanks as well for the distinction b/t ceramic & porcelain tile - very good to know!

When I removed the tile there were a number of things that I was surprised to find:

It appeared the thinset was put on per tile & very poorly/uneven/not full contact. It also appeared on some of them that there were multiple layers of thinset - perhaps a smear on the floor & a clump on the back of the tile or on the corners. And then, RedGard in the kitchen but not in the bath or the main entry. Not at all what I thought I’d find!

Thinking about using the thinset Ditra uncoupling membrane on the install. My only concern is the finished thickness & slide operation.

The journey continues!

18 minutes ago, Rick A said:

No my wife wanted a really good quality vinyl because it’s better for summer and winter. The tiles were very cold in winter up in Victoria BC. As an added bonus removing,  the tiles removed about 250lbs. 

 

@Rick A Gotcha! We’ve tried to find a really good looking luxury vinyl tile but haven’t been able to yet. Wouldn’t mind the weight savings!

[jacwjames]

Are you considering using the Polyethylene orange sheeting or just the thin set?? 

The sheeting will add ~1/4" (or more) to the thickness.  It's a good product but probably not necessary in a motorhome. 

 

I used the orange sheeting when I put porcelain tile on a deck.  It's been in place about 4 years now and so far so good (although Schulter Systems doesn't recommend that type of application anymore).  I started with 3/4" treated plywood, 1/2" cement board, the membrane and then 18"X18" porcelain tile.  We clean it with a pressure washer about every 4 months, takes ~1/2 hour.  Plus the patio underneath stays dry. 

[Newcsn]

1 minute ago, jacwjames said:

Are you considering using the Polyethylene orange sheeting or just the thin set?? 

The sheeting will add ~1/4" (or more) to the thickness.  It's a good product but probably not necessary in a motorhome. 

 

I used the orange sheeting when I put porcelain tile on a deck.  It's been in place about 4 years now and so far so good (although Schulter Systems doesn't recommend that type of application anymore).  I started with 3/4" treated plywood, 1/2" cement board, the membrane and then 18"X18" porcelain tile.  We clean it with a pressure washer about every 4 months, takes ~1/2 hour.  Plus the patio underneath stays dry. 

@jacwjames I was thinking about using Dirta (the orange stuff) - but haven’t decided - concerned about how it might effect our slides operation (will it add too much thickness). I think we’re going to use a 12x24 porcelain tile & run them lengthwise. 

[jacwjames]

As you look at the different tiles check the recommended spacing of the joints. 

I laid 12X24" tile in our kitchen and they recommended staggering the joints 1/3 length of tile.  Once you start it isn't bad and in the end looked pretty good.  In a small space the size might be harder to cut edges and around obstacles.   But the end result will look good. 

[96 EVO]

6 hours ago, Ivan K said:

The grinder will make a huge mess. When I had to fix some tiles in the house, I modified a see through box covering my hand with the grinder and with an attached hose to shop vac. Almost no dust this way. Any chance you had heated floor in that section?

Didn't think Monaco built any coaches with heated floors.

Sig's? Navigators?

[Ivan K]

17 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Didn't think Monaco built any coaches with heated floors.

Sig's? Navigators?

Eventhough I dont have it, it is in my wiring diagrams so I bet there are some out there.

[96 EVO]

That's my one regret!

Not buying a coach with heated tile!

Oh, and a 500+hp engine, with a 3 stage compression brake 🤔!!

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by 96 EVO

[LakeBob]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Didn't think Monaco built any coaches with heated floors.

Sig's? Navigators?

My 2009 Dynasty has factory heated floors in the front salon/galley, 1/2 bath, and rear master bath.   No heat in the master bedroom as this was originally carpet, previous owner replaced with tile. 

 I was able to get the drawings from Gold Heat, as I had to replace the floor in the 1/2 bath, tearing up the heated floor.  There are 3 zones of heating.  They provided the heated floors for Monaco at the end of the run. 

Manufacturer Of Electric Radiant Floor Heat Mats | Gold Heat

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

That's my one regret!

Not buying a coach with heated tile!

Oh, and a 500+hp engine, with a 3 stage compression brake 🤔!!

 

The heated floors rock in cool weather, and so does the ISM 500!

Edited September 17, 2023 by LakeBob

[Hancoman]

I have heated floors in my 2001 Executive. They are very nice in cooler weather when you have to get up more than once during the night.

[WayneC]

All the tiles in mine are heated, I would definitely look into adding heated flooring if and when the time comes to replace,  going all electric is nice and having the generator for recharging, I have never tried the heated floors with the inverter and don't even know if that is possible. For the heat, I believe it would be just right for those of you that do not venture as far north, at times that is all I use to keep the temperature just right, small (electric heater) in the living room and everything is cozy. Nice in the morning as mentioned, keep the socks on the floor ,nice and toastie in the morning. Caught out in the rain on occasions, perfect place to dry things out.

Hurricane Lee is ripping through my lake front property,  my security cameras are out because the power went out yesterday afternoon , there has been a few posts in regards to coach covers, this will be the second Hurricane that the cover has seen,I will post an update once the power comes back on and I get a live feed to the coach and my property. 

Fingers crossed 

Wayne

1999 Signature ceaser 

[Newcsn]

All the feedback on heated floors is nice - and I'd love to add them. But, this will increase the thickness/height of the finished floor. This would require slide adjustments - i imagine. 

What's that process entail? 

[jacwjames]

Not sure on how much leeway you have on final height of floor in relation to you slides.  That has to be the first thing you need to confirm and then from there decide if it is possible to use any type of membrane.  Provided you have enough clearance it might be possible to add the heated flooring.  Schluter does make a membrane that allows for heated flooring https://www.lowes.com/pd/Schluter-Systems-39-in-x-493-in-Orange-Underfloor-Heating-Mat/50288479 , it indicates its 1/4" thick BUT it has to be bedded in thinset to adhere to the floor.  This would add more height and requires a heat wire to be woven into the dimples prior to laying tile, which would be pretty labor intensive. 

So more research on your part but if heated floors were an option for you coach it might be possible to add while your redoing the floor.

[WayneC]

Not the correct spot for the coach cover update,but for those who where reading my response to the post in regards to flooring, here is the update on the coach cover, power can back on ,live feed to the coach, the cover did not move, second hurricane and all is well.

Wayne

1999 Signature ceaser 

[jacwjames]

On 9/16/2023 at 10:42 PM, LakeBob said:

My 2009 Dynasty has factory heated floors in the front salon/galley, 1/2 bath, and rear master bath.   No heat in the master bedroom as this was originally carpet, previous owner replaced with tile. 

 I was able to get the drawings from Gold Heat, as I had to replace the floor in the 1/2 bath, tearing up the heated floor.  There are 3 zones of heating.  They provided the heated floors for Monaco at the end of the run. 

Manufacturer Of Electric Radiant Floor Heat Mats | Gold Heat

The heated floors rock in cool weather, and so does the ISM 500!

The website you posted has a good installation page, the mat looks like it is very thin and would not add much (if any) height when installed.

I know that there is a pretty good range of thickness for different tiles.  My previous post showing installation of tile on a deck shows the larger 18"X18" tile, this tile was really thick.  The 12"X24" tile that I show in the kitchen is about half the thickness.

So if the OP is interested in installing heated floors I'd say there is a good chance it is possible depending on thickness of current tile he is removing versus the new tile.  The installation page is pretty detailed and it can be installed by a good DYI'er. 

[6Wheels]

Just my 2 cents:

Luxury Vinyl Tile

less weight

easier installation

less money

easier repairs

easier to clean

Edited September 18, 2023 by 6Wheels
error correction

[CarolR]

I agree with cWheels, the previous owner of our 98 Dynasty replaced the tile with faux wood flooring.  Much better and no worries of cracking, just wish they had taken all the carpet out, it is still in the bedroom.

[Rich Cutler]

Learning experience.  Ceramic tile is great for shower walls and such, but not for floors.  Porcelain tile is meant for floors, as it is stronger, resistant to cracking.   As an aside, when we replaced our carpet with engineered wood, we kept the tile floor.  I did square off the tile in the kitchen using the spares provided and stored under the bed.  No carpet anywhere now, not even the slides.  

[Newcsn]

Thanks for everyone’s input! We went ahead w/ porcelain tile (12x24). We’ve attached a few pics of the end result. Definitely not a job for the faint of heart (or weak of back)! But, overall, we’re incredibly pleased with the outcome. Carpet is next! Thanks again for all the input,