Smart wheel problem

[Garrett]

My flash headlights and flash running light buttons have not worked since I bought my 2007 Dynasty 2 years ago. Then my low beams quit working and now my wipers only work on intermittent. I’ve changed headlight bulbs, installed new headlight switch, replaced both controllers on steering wheel and switched out the smart wheel controller in frb. No changes at all. Could the clock spring cause these issues?

[Frank Bergamo]

Yes, the clock spring could cause the problems you are describing, but check at the bottom of the steering column the connections that run up to the clock spring. If all is good there, then the clock spring probably needs replaced. Hope this helps.

[ktloah]

Check wiring where they plug into the smart wheel control box. Usually located in box under driver's side. Good luck

[MyronTruex]

I suspect you have several relays associated with the system. They are likely in the front run bay. Follow the wiring from the headlights physically as much as you can. 

Take some pictures of your frb so folks can come up with ideas quicker.

Once you find the relays it should be easy enough to check for the control pin of the relays. Etc.

[Garrett]

[Mike T Phillips]

I have replaced my clock spring twice.   It’s a common problem at least on mine.    2008 holiday rambler imperial 

[Garrett]

Do the headlights go through the clockspring?

The only relays I see are for L and R Hi beams,

[ktloah]

Garrett, check the # F12 connector where it plugs into smart wheel box in runbay...older Monacos had a problem with burnt wires

[Garrett]

Don't see any burnt or loose wires

[ktloah]

Ok, I have an 04 Dynasty and that was our problem when we lost the low beam headlights. Good luck

[Garrett]

Appreciate it!! 

[Garry Donohue]

Your front run box looks exactly like my 2007 Dynasty. I had the exact problem and it was two things. First look closely at the green circuit boards on the left half of the front run box. I’m referring to the copper ribbon circuit wiring embedded into the green material. Follow each circuit, I found a “short” that severed one of those copper ribbons. I had to replace the board (purchased at Veurinks rv supply). Also found on one of the “J” plugs that plug into the smart wheel box on the left side of the FRB, a loose connection on the female side. We stuffed the female side with a little stranded wire to make the male plug fit tighter. (Look at your wiring schematics to know which plug hole for example “J11” or “J9” etc. The schematics will show you which one controls what) those two steps fixed my low beam headlights problem. My wipers were working intermittently then failed altogether. I pulled my wheel cover, accessed the clock spring and simply rubbed with a clean towel, the part that makes the electrical connection as the wheel turns ( not sure what that part is called) kinda like fingers that rub to make the connection. After cleaning that part, all has been fine since. 
 

[Garrett]

Awesome!  I will check all that out !! Thanks!!

[Frank McElroy]

At the base of the steering column behind the lower black cover there is a connector that connects the steering wheel keypads to the smartwheel control box.  Be sure there is no corrosion in that connector.

The smartwheel works by each keypad sending a specific voltage on two data wires.  Any resistance on those data wires or connections would change voltages that the smartwheel controller sees when a keypad is pressed.  If voltages are off by more than about +/- 0.1 volts, you will see the problems you have.  Not only could there be resistance on the two data wires, there must be a good voltage feed and ground to the smartwheel keypads. 

Have you followed the smartwheel troubleshooting manual and actually measured the voltages on the keypad data lines to the control box?

 

[Garrett]

I have not but certainly will now! Thanks!!

[Frank McElroy]

If you find all voltages on the two data cables are too high or too low, check the voltage feed and ground at the smartwheel keypads with and without a keypad presses.  Resistance on the keypad power feed or ground can be just as bad as resistance in one of the two data cables.

[Raymond]

Sure would be grateful to hear how this problem is solved as I have the exact same issue. If I tilt the steering wheel into a new position (up or down) the problem clears up for a short while. My resolution has been to change the clock spring and I’ve replaced it at least 4 times. I have had the problem examined at REV, Lazydays, and a couple of other shops over the years without a lasting resolution. That is the only issue I have had with our coach so I am grateful for that, but sure would be wonderful to solve this mystery. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Raymond

[MyronTruex]

If you are changing a part out multiple times and it seems to clear the issue temporarily, you are likely bumping or tugging on something while changing it. It is hard to fathom a part would fail four times. 

[Raymond]

1 minute ago, myrontruex said:

If you are changing a part out multiple times and it seems to clear the issue temporarily, you are likely bumping or tugging on something while changing it. It is hard to fathom a part would fail four times. 

You are absolutely right. But no one seems to be able to find what’s loose and I am near clueless on eletrical diy projects. 

[MyronTruex]

23 minutes ago, Raymond said:

You are absolutely right. But no one seems to be able to find what’s loose and I am near clueless on eletrical diy projects. 

Intermittent issues are the bane of an electronic tech. I told customers experiencing them to drive into my parking lot slowly. There is a small gutter but the simple bump could clear their issue. Happened too many times to remember.

 

Getting voltage measurements upstream and downstream while it is working is important.  These measurements should be easy to access without tugging and pulling. Even if it means attaching a wire and bringing it out to a place you can test. This of course done when things are working. 

If there are plugs such as molex plugs and sockets they can be problem. They can often be tightened up a bit using a thin blade of some sort. This is a shotgun approach of course and not advised unless the problem has cleared because of the parking lot bump. 

 

[MHRookie]

11 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

At the base of the steering column behind the lower black cover there is a connector that connects the steering wheel keypads to the smartwheel control box.  Be sure there is no corrosion in that connector.

The smartwheel works by each keypad sending a specific voltage on two data wires.  Any resistance on those data wires or connections would change voltages that the smartwheel controller sees when a keypad is pressed.  If voltages are off by more than about +/- 0.1 volts, you will see the problems you have.  Not only could there be resistance on the two data wires, there must be a good voltage feed and ground to the smartwheel keypads. 

Have you followed the smartwheel troubleshooting manual and actually measured the voltages on the keypad data lines to the control box?

 

Use a little caution here.  I used smartwheel’s troubleshooting on my 03 Dynasty and a wire they say should have power with key off did not.  I had to turn key on.  Monaco installed unit slightly different (Frank - don’t ask me how it all still works but everything does function properly - especially since IMMI provides the install instructions).

I unplugged all connections on smartwheel and steering wheel and used electrical contact cleaner & small wire brush and reassembled.  All good so far.  I am sure a new clock spring is in a near future replacement.

[Garrett]

Im with you Raymond. Clueless also on vehicle electrical, but am learning quickly on this. Old dog new tricks! If a large cloud is detected in Iowa, I connected the wrong wires!! 

[Garrett]

If I find a burnt wire, is there enough wire behind to cut off and strip? I wont be able to get back to troubleshooting for a few days.

[Raymond]

2 hours ago, myrontruex said:

Intermittent issues are the bane of an electronic tech. I told customers experiencing them to drive into my parking lot slowly. There is a small gutter but the simple bump could clear their issue. Happened too many times to remember.

 

Getting voltage measurements upstream and downstream while it is working is important.  These measurements should be easy to access without tugging and pulling. Even if it means attaching a wire and bringing it out to a place you can test. This of course done when things are working. 

If there are plugs such as molex plugs and sockets they can be problem. They can often be tightened up a bit using a thin blade of some sort. This is a shotgun approach of course and not advised unless the problem has cleared because of the parking lot bump. 

 

OMG how right you are! I found, out of frustration, if I hit my steering wheel while driving everything starts working again!

[MyronTruex]

4 hours ago, Raymond said:

OMG how right you are! I found, out of frustration, if I hit my steering wheel while driving everything starts working again!

I play a game I call (20 questions), that is telling a customer that I will be asking them a lot of questions and seemingly the same ones, however slightly different, not because I forgot their answer.

Unlike many service centers, I endouraged customers for be right there and sometimes even helping chase things down, especially intermittents.

Teasing the customers and asking if I had to beat information out of them I would. While asking the same question for the third or fourth time, no immediately in sequence, they would elicit some piece of information that seemed to them to be useless.

You just gave a very important clue. 

Banging on the steering wheel causing it to work surely leads me to a loose connection. This also mostly eliminates any issues in other compartments.

That will be $500 please. $5 for hitting it, $495 for knowing where to hit it. 

Based on inputs over the years I remember folks having trouble installing clock rings properly. Having a front end alignment the tech popped my steering wheel cover right off. I grittet my teeth a bit. However this tech had me sitting right next to him all through the process. This gave me great confidence in his expertise. 

So perhaps your installation techniques have not been perfected, or some little plastic tab broke and you don't see it.f

If you are ever in the Orlando area, Josams is the place to take it. I would ask them to just check the installation of the clock ring. This would then eliminate any issues there.

I think I would be getting kind of physical with the steering column. Not driving of course. I mean I would be doing some serious (qualified tech), bashing around. Tugging and possibly using the proper words to encourage it to give up its secrets.