HWH generator slide cylinder rebuild

[Ivan K]

Couple days ago I noticed a drip under the genny slide cylinder, the last one the hasn't been rebuilt yet. With Grant's (Groovy) information, after he rebuilt his room slide cylinders, I suspected the same kind of seals to be needed and it turned out to be true. His part numbers from a post earlier in the year appeared to be from a Canadian source and I could not find them locally but eventually cross-referenced by dimensions to a US source. Huge price differences between suppliers but very reasonable from my preferred source, about $23 for 4 sets with 2 day fedex which actually arrived overnight. Nasty job because of the leak but easy after a cleanup, pics show the parts and guts of the cylinder. As for tools, all I needed is 1-5/16 deep socket to remove the cylinder mount nut and regular wrenches for the fittings and slide nut. One decent wise and pipe wrench to unscrew the tube. With some imagination it would be even doable in the field. I haven't seen this info elsewhere so maybe someone finds it helpful, eventually. 

[tmw188]

Yes it can be done, I got some advice from Jacwjames on removing the parts from the valve block using just a little air pressure while having it wrapped in a towel. Was your slide drifting out while driving? Mine was drifting, no drips and and after removing and taking the parts to a local shop they measured and ordered me the parts for all <$20. 

[Ivan K]

8 minutes ago, tmw188 said:

 Was your slide drifting out while driving? Mine was drifting, no drips and and after removing and taking the parts to a local shop they measured and ordered me the parts for all <$20. 

Ours wasn't drifting, not enough of a the leak and I only noticed it while parked after return from a trip.

[tmw188]

For others mine wasn’t leaking on the ground but was leaking past seals internally somewhere causing it not to stay closed while driving. 

[Ivan K]

2 hours ago, tmw188 said:

For others mine wasn’t leaking on the ground but was leaking past seals internally somewhere causing it not to stay closed while driving. 

If it wasn't a leaky valve or possibly air in the cylinder, it had to be this piston ring, there's nothing else inside.

[Jdw12345]

Does the o ring belong In between the rings?

[Ivan K]

5 minutes ago, Jdw12345 said:

Does the o ring belong In between the rings?

Yes, it goes between the plastic flat rings.

[Jdw12345]

👍🏻

[tmw188]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

If it wasn't a leaky valve or possibly air in the cylinder, it had to be this piston ring, there's nothing else inside.

What I was trying to express was it doesn’t have to show signs of leaking onto the ground. Yes either the valve or the cylinder seals. 

[Trevor and Laura]

Thank you for those pictures, our still new to us 06 Dynasty had the generator slide drifting problem, not while driving when bringing her home, but it would be 2 to 3ins after a few days, I was preparing to remove the cylinder but it was suggested by several to check the solenoid valves for dirt etc. Finally got them out, the seals looked good, found no visible dirt, put them back in with vaseline and problem seemed to be fixed, but while no where near as bad, it is back to drifting out again but only an inch or so after a few days. I now have the HWH removal tools, a spare valve and many spare seals for them... incase..

Could live with it, but we are leaving Ontario in 4 weeks for the Winter and this has me thinking of the cylinder again while there is still time. Oh what to do.. I was not expecting that there would be enough pressurised oil retained in the system to push the slide out even several inches with the pump not running..

Appreciate thoughts on this, valves vs cylinder, any way to determine??

Thanks

            Trevor & Laura

2006 Dynasty in Owen Sound  ON

[Ivan K]

Make sure you purged all the air out of the cylinder and lines by holding the switch for few seconds longer after it gets to its stop both ways. I doubt that internal cylinder leak would cause it while stationary and level but air would as it expands. If it leaked externally, you would see it. You probably checked the reservoir level too, so it doesn't suck air.

[jacwjames]

4 hours ago, Trevor and Laura said:

Thank you for those pictures, our still new to us 06 Dynasty had the generator slide drifting problem, not while driving when bringing her home, but it would be 2 to 3ins after a few days, I was preparing to remove the cylinder but it was suggested by several to check the solenoid valves for dirt etc. Finally got them out, the seals looked good, found no visible dirt, put them back in with vaseline and problem seemed to be fixed, but while no where near as bad, it is back to drifting out again but only an inch or so after a few days. I now have the HWH removal tools, a spare valve and many spare seals for them... incase..

Could live with it, but we are leaving Ontario in 4 weeks for the Winter and this has me thinking of the cylinder again while there is still time. Oh what to do.. I was not expecting that there would be enough pressurised oil retained in the system to push the slide out even several inches with the pump not running..

Appreciate thoughts on this, valves vs cylinder, any way to determine??

Thanks

            Trevor & Laura

2006 Dynasty in Owen Sound  ON

Do you know the make/model of the generator slide.  Some work off the same hydraulic system as the room slide.

In my case it is a stand alone system.  Power Gear, a simple design, reversing motor that drives the pump, cylinder with a block that has a shuttle/lock valve.  Mine never drifted but would get stuck.  Monaco for a while was using teflon tape on the threads and the pieces would get stuck in the lock valve. 

So it's need to know the make/model of the slide mechanism.

[Trevor and Laura]

Ours is the HWH system, 3 hydraulic room slides and the generator slide, there are 7 solenoid valves with the 1/4in bleed valves and the gen retract valve is the newer style  with the plastic  lever, suggesting that it has been replaced? underneath the steps.

Seemed strange that the slide would move out on its own 3in just sitting for a few days and then just about stop after removing the 2 solenoid valves and replacing with the same seals, maybe take them out again and replace the seals now we have them? Suddenly cold and wet here now..  

My mind can picture the pressure equalising across the piston seals, moving oil from the retact to extend sides, but 3in seems alot..

[jacwjames]

The problem the Ivan and Todd have/had is that the piston packing was leaking letting the hydrualic oil to bypass across the piston.  Has nothing to do with the pump or valves.  

There are ways to check this but it depends on they style of cylinder.   If you extend the cylinder all the way out, disconnect the hose on that end and then try to extend the cylinder again and oil comes out that fitting the packing is bypassing. 

[Trevor and Laura]

Thanks Jim, now that makes sense and something to think about before going to sleep tonight, certainly before removing the cylinder. No external leaks at this time.

Cheers,  Trevor

[jacwjames]

Not a problem, always something to think about. 

Considering the duty cycle of the generator slides I'm surprised we ever see things like this.  I've seen duty cycles of 100's of strokes per hour 24/7/365 without cylinder failures.  But it depends on the quality of the cylinder and material of the packing/seals.  

But you know what they say "Stuff Happens" 

[eddie4ne]

Now this is info that I have been hunting for for quite a while. since our generator has been drifting out for a while! Thanks to all for the input. That will be added to our EXTENSIVE todo list!

Edited October 9, 2023 by eddie4ne

[CRY1942]

97 Dynasty, drifting genny slide. Separate motor/pump for the genny hydraulic ram, no shuttle valve. Tried every suggested trick to resolve. Finally pulled the hydraulic ram and had seals replaced, along with new hoses and has never drifted again.

 

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, eddie4ne said:

Now this is info that I have been hunting for for quite a while. since our generator has been drifting out for a while! Thanks to all for the input. That will be added to our EXTENSIVE todo list!

Ed,  Good chance you have the same generator slide as I have, its a Power Gear.  Attached is information on it.  Not much but better then nothing.  The only part the I think is still available is the "lock Valve" which is what keeps the slide from moving, it is sold by Lippert.  I actually replaced mine back in ~2010, it cost ~$75 but is listed for +$350 now.  Mine was stuck and I ended up using compressed air to pop it out but it came out like a bullet so be careful, the next time I had to fool with it I wrapped the valve block in a rag to contain it.  My generator slide would never drift but get stuck, the lock valve wasn't working correctly so I took the system apart.  I've read that Monaco used teflon tape on hose connections whey they installed and sometimes pieces get loose and cause the lock valve to get stuck.  Completely removing and cleaning the entire system will solve the problem.

Over time I found that I could simply disconnect the hydraulic ram end from the slide frame and it would release any pressure and I could then move the ram on the cylinder.  It takes a deep well socket, can't remember how big but I bought and carry one. 

 

Generator Slide Manual.pdf Generator Slide Lock Valve.pdf

[David Pratt]

I posted this article back in April. There is a lot of info on Slide Out Creep if one uses the search function.

If your coach has four room slide outs and a generator slide out, the hydraulic motor and manifold assembly will have ten solenoids on the manifold attached to the hydraulic motor and tank. The whole assembly is one piece. Each individual slide out has two solenoids, one for retract and one for extend and will be located on the manifold opposite each other. The solenoids are electro-mechanical coils that have a plunger that moves to open when power is applied.

When you push the button to extend the slide out, the extend solenoid will open and the hydraulic pump motor runs to provide the pressure to the hydraulic cylinders to extend the slide. The opposite happens when you go to retract the slide out.

It is a known practice and recommended by HWH that when you extend or retract the slide outs that you hold the switch in the on position for about 10-20 seconds after the slide out is fully extended or retracted or until the hydraulic motor changes pitch. This practice will keep the seats in the solenoids clean and will help avoid slide out creep.

All HWH slide outs are held open and/or closed by hydraulic pressure, about 1300psi. This is the reason each solenoid will have a small nut or a lever located on the rear of the solenoid that is used to release the hydraulic pressure on the hydraulic cylinder to move the slide out in or out if there is a failure with the hydraulic pump or a solenoid. There is also a pressure switch that is mounted in the manifold that closes the solenoid when the cut off pressure is met-(1300psi) when the slide out is fully extended or retracted.

If you experience slide out creep -(this is a common problem), the first method to try and correct the problem is to extend and retract the slide out several times using the above practice on extending  and retracting the slide outs. If that does not correct the problem that indicates that you have a failed solenoid. It will be very rare to have an internal leak inside a cylinder that will cause Slide Out Creep.

If the above method fails to correct the problem and the slide out still creeps out that indicates that the retract solenoid has failed and if it creeps in that indicates that the extend solenoid has failed. The solenoid have "o'rings" that seal the solenoids into the manifold and can fail and leak causing this issue. You can purchase o-ring kits from HWH or most RV parts suppliers.

I have attached  a diagram of a typical layout of a ten solenoid hydraulic manifold that may help you.

HYDRAULIC PUMP MANIFOLD(1).pdfUnavailable