Lost 3 gallons from Tranny, am I screwed

[jacwjames]

So I made it all the way home without any more problems.  Transmission temps on the coach did run hotter but I was able to manage it by shifting to lower gears to get rpm's up.  Did get stuck in traffic a couple times.

I did pull a sample and sent it in for analysis but have not heard back yet.  The oil looked OK, no burnt smell but the analysis will tell if anything else is going on.

Finally had a chance to take a look at the Derale cooler.  I bought two #12 JIC caps and drilled and taped one to be able to install a schrader valve and used a tire gauge to pressurize to ~15 psi, could feel the leak as soon as I put air too it.  Soaped it up and pressurized to ~20 psi to get pictures of the leak.  It was where I suspected although at the time couldn't get a good look at it.  It was at the lower port but the sheet metal covered it up.

Sent an email with picture to Derale, I'll see what they say.  But under the circumstance I may go with a different more robust cooler. 

[klcdenver]

If you need new cooler you might be interested in a whole new cooling package. Amazon has a good deal on the whole ball of wax for 2,300.  I believe this will fit your unit. I bought this set this summer and will install after first of year. It came crated very well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086R6M99K/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1JV6XN12ZQO1J&psc=1

 

[Robert92867]

Looks like a bad spot to repair.  Glad you made it home safe.

regards.

 

[jacwjames]

14 hours ago, Robert92867 said:

Looks like a bad spot to repair.  Glad you made it home safe.

regards.

 

Not even going to try to repair.

I did hear back from Derale, from the picture they said it was probably due to vibration and/or weight from the hose.  They agreed to send me a new core free of charge.

FWIW when I installed I was concerned about weight so I zip tied the hose along the route of the other hoses.  I attached the hose to the Derale cooler before tying to attach the other end so as not to stress the hose/fitting.  Not sure what else I could have done. 

Not sure on my path forward, I may look for another heavy duty type cooler.

 

[dl_racing427]

On 10/27/2023 at 12:00 PM, FLynes said:

I always felt bad for the Land Yacht MH owners, as there were too many snobby pull-behind owners who never considered them to be real Airstreams and did what they could to prevent their membership to the WBCCI. It was one of the many reasons why we sold our Sovereign.

Trailer owners looking down on coach owners???  LMAO

54 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Not even going to try to repair.

I did hear back from Derale, from the picture they said it was probably due to vibration and/or weight from the hose.  They agreed to send me a new core free of charge.

FWIW when I installed I was concerned about weight so I zip tied the hose along the route of the other hoses.  I attached the hose to the Derale cooler before tying to attach the other end so as not to stress the hose/fitting.  Not sure what else I could have done. 

Not sure on my path forward, I may look for another heavy duty type cooler.

 

Supporting the hoses near the cooler is important, but there does need to be some flexibility as well.
The important thing is not to have a lot of weight hanging on the port.

I am pleased to hear that Derale stepped up with a replacement though.
Is the cooler itself mounted on rubber isolators?  That is always a good idea as well.

[96 EVO]

18 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

Trailer owners looking down on coach owners???  LMAO

 

Airstream owners are a different sort 🤪!

[jacwjames]

There was a shroud/frame that the fan attached to.  It did not have any type of rubber isolators.  Might have helped. 

This is a picture I took when the hose was disconnected, I took the fitting to try and figure out a way to bypass.  You can see the position of the hose that it did not put any real amount of stress on the fitting, the end of the hose is not being supported but that is the position it would rest at. 

 

[dl_racing427]

16 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

There was a shroud/frame that the fan attached to.  It did not have any type of rubber isolators.  Might have helped. 

This is a picture I took when the hose was disconnected, I took the fitting to try and figure out a way to bypass.  You can see the position of the hose that it did not put any real amount of stress on the fitting, the end of the hose is not being supported but that is the position it would rest at. 

 

I agree completely.  That should not have put any undue stress on the cooler.

Edited November 10, 2023 by dl_racing427

[tmw188]

On 11/9/2023 at 1:52 PM, klcdenver said:

If you need new cooler you might be interested in a whole new cooling package. Amazon has a good deal on the whole ball of wax for 2,300.  I believe this will fit your unit. I bought this set this summer and will install after first of year. It came crated very well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086R6M99K/ref=ewc_pr_img_1?smid=A1JV6XN12ZQO1J&psc=1

 

That appears to be a rear radiator style stack FWIW. 

[FLynes]

3 hours ago, dl_racing427 said:

Trailer owners looking down on coach owners???  LMAO

Supporting the hoses near the cooler is important, but there does need to be some flexibility as well.
The important thing is not to have a lot of weight hanging on the port.

I am pleased to hear that Derale stepped up with a replacement though.
Is the cooler itself mounted on rubber isolators?  That is always a good idea as well.

They’re a different breed for sure. Going to the rallies really made me start hating owning ours. The final nail was Brooke who said she felt like we were living in a coffin. Sold it to some folks from Louisiana who followed Jimmy Buffet around.

[jacwjames]

I received the results from the oil analysis, came back normal.  Had minor levels of Lead and zinc but about the same as my last sample which was ~2 years ago. 

So I guess I dodged a bullet. 

I do plan to go ahead and do a filter change. 

[FLynes]

14 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I received the results from the oil analysis, came back normal.  Had minor levels of Lead and zinc but about the same as my last sample which was ~2 years ago. 

So I guess I dodged a bullet. 

I do plan to go ahead and do a filter change. 

That's great news! Filter change can't hurt a thing. Since the analysis came back clean, you're keeping the fluid and just changing the filter, yes?

[jacwjames]

12 minutes ago, FLynes said:

That's great news! Filter change can't hurt a thing. Since the analysis came back clean, you're keeping the fluid and just changing the filter, yes?

Yes just a filter change and whatever amount of oil I have to make up, last time I did it I used ~1/2 gallon but I'll measure and check fluid level when I'm done.

It would take several fluid changes to purge the Valvoline but since it is compatible with Transynd I don't see the need to change. 

But I'll also continue with oil samples about every 2 years.  Cheap insurance

 

My history with Allison transmissions in general had been with mining equipment.  Several manufacturers used them, and we had them in Plymouth locomotives.  But they didn't have a very good track record in that application so when I bought the motorhome I have paid particular attention to the transmission, keeping up with fluid changes and filter changes.  When I started seeing higher temps after the radiator change I was concerned enough to add the additional cooler.  So my current plan is to add another cooler, looking at options there. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by jacwjames

[jacwjames]

So I decided to replace the Derale cooler with the RS4821 cooler which I believe is usually used on a rear radiator rig.  Radiator Supply house still sells these for ~$1600.   I believe VanWill installed the same type when he bypassed the cooler in his radiator.  The cooler is well constructed, full aluminum, with brackets welded on two sides for mounting. 

I found one at Visione RV in KY for $300 and I live ~120 miles away so yesterday I drove up to get it, needed a break anyway.   I paid cash so they gave me a 10% discount. 

Decided to just go ahead and install it today.   I had to space it off the rear cross member to give me enough room for the hoses so I used 1.5" square tubing, I first mounted this to the cooler.  Predrilled some holes to be able use self taping screws a little easier.  Also used two thick rubber washers to mount the cooler to the square tubing before fastening to the chassis cross member.  Other then being a tight fit to get in there it turned out pretty good.  

I also decided to use the fan that had been on the Derale cooler, it fit the width of the replacement cooler but is ~1/2 the width but should still push a lot of air through the cooler.  

I was able to attach the hoses by loosening the other end and turning the 90 degree end to meet the fitting on the end of the cooler.  I am going to completely bypass he cooler in the radiator, I believe the new one will have plenty of cooling capacity.  That is what VanWill did and hasn't had a problem. 

So this should close out the saga of my tranny cooler failure.  Live and learn, should have went with the cooler normally used on these rigs.  It is built much better, thicker metal, and twice as large as the Derale.

I'm sure the Derale works well in the right application. 

[tmw188]

Jim can you insert a pic a little further out so we can see the scale of it a little better. 

[jacwjames]

Here's a picture that might help with scale.

It is about twice as long as wide, I have it mounted length wise and it takes up most of the opening on the drivers side of the engine.  I had just enough room to bring the hoses in from the back so I didn't have to modify the hose, just had to reorient the direction of the 90 elbow. 

The cooler has 1" O-ring type boss 90 fitting so I pointed it down and the hose 90 up.  The hose is a #12 3/4".  The Derale actually only had a #10 fitting so this cooler will have less restriction on the inlets and my guess the internal tubes are larger.  The new cooler should have much better cooling/heat transfer. 

I did install the 145F temp switch on the top port which is the inlet.  This triggers the fan to come on and then go off when the temps cool.  I know this works as I tested when it was on the Derale cooler. 

For now I'm not going to try and rig more sheet metal, I'll see how it performs.  With my Silverleaf monitor I can get accurate tranny temps and I also have data logging set up so I can look at a longer period of time.  I'll make a run with the old cooler still in the circuit and then with it removed and compare performance.  My guess is I'll be fine with just this cooler in place. 

Besides, the radiator is seeing 180F temps from the engine.  The cooler will have much less ambient air temp circulating through it so that's a plus. 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by jacwjames

[jacwjames]

So I took the rig for a drive today to check for leaks, make sure the fan was working, and see what temps I could achieve.  I done this route before and knew about what temps I should reach although today was cooler ~60F.

I drove it about 10 miles and the temps slowly climbed to ~145.  Parked and check the fluid level which was OL-1L, I though I might have to add some so it didn't surprise me.   The fan had not come on yet, temp was too low.  So headed home and by that time the temp climbed to ~165F, which is about what I expected.

I backed into the garage, temp did not go back up which is good.  Prior to adding a cooler I had seen temps go up to ~225F while backing in.

After parking I went and check for leaks again and by that time the fan was running.  So Let the rig idle to let it cool down, it dropped to 135F based on the Silverleaf within 20 minutes.  Fan was still running but I am sure it will go off once the temp is reached at the switch I installed.  

[96 EVO]

I don't think you will get an accurate fluid level at only 145F.

[jacwjames]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

I don't think you will get an accurate fluid level at only 145F.

It seemed to provide an accurate reading.  I did check it again when I parked it in my garage, temp was ~165 and it gave me the same reading.

I panicked when I checked it again when the temp dropped and it gave me the 07 code which is the temp code.  I thought it was low 7 qts, ran back to check for leaks but remembered about minimum temp to check level.