GFCI keeps tripping

[bklaes]

I'm plugged into 50amp.   The GFI outlet in the rear bath keeps tripping.  It was replaced but the problem persists.  After resetting it, 5-10 minutes later it trips again. 

It appears all but 2 receptacles (in the bedroom) are downstream from this GFI.  When it trips all the bath, galley, salon, & patio outlets go dead.  No other electrical circuits affected.

After trying a lot of things, I came up with this: 
With the GFI set and providing power to all the outlets (I've got 5 minutes before it trips again)...
Turning off the breaker labeled BEDROOM in the rear breaker box makes nothing happen.  All outlets stay powered on.
Turning off the breaker labeled INVERTER in the rear breaker box makes all those outlets power off.
Turning the inverter off at the EMS control switch, does not affect the power to the outlets.

What is this telling me?

I've got a 2005 DST 1.5 bath floorplan - if anybody has the 120v diagram for a DST, it would be greatly appreciated.  I've downloaded the 120 schematic for a 2006 Diplomat.  It helps, but doesn't line up exactly with only 1 bath.   

[JohnC3]

Happened to me earlier this year. Tripped about 5 times. Reset it and 5- 4 hours later it tripped again.

On advice from  Tom C I replaced the GFCI. Fixed the problem. Sometimes they get weak over time. You are kind of throwing a part at it, but they do fail. Think of it as a $20 test that will likely solve your problem.

John

[Dr4Film]

John, that was the very first thing he tried but didn't solve his specific problem.

[bklaes]

Yes, I bought a new RV-rated GFI outlet and swapped it out.

[JohnC3]

5 minutes ago, bklaes said:

Yes, I bought a new RV-rated GFI outlet and swapped it out.

Sorry, read too fast on the phone and missed the prior replacement. 

I DON'T know your rig so take this with a helping of salt.

What occurred to me when I reread your post was the following:

Turned off Bedroom breaker:  Odd, but Probably running off the inverter. See if you can find something around the bedroom that this breaker controls. revisit when you get the electrical diagram.

Turned off Breaker to Inverter: Hmm, on my 08 Camelot the power went from the panel to the inverter then to 2 circuits ((1)Microwave and kitchen outlets and (2) Other bedroom outlets(But in mine not all, just the outlets near the tv)) If you cut shore power to the inverter, I would expect it to try and draw power from the batteries to power microwave and inverter powered outlets. Was the inverter ON (at the esm) at this time when you cut the inverter CB?

Turned off Inverter at ESM Panel: What type of inverter Magnum ME2000? I seem to remember that this will "Pass-through" AC Power from the post (or Genny?) so Off may not mean no power flow (you may just be stopping any inverting, but since you have shore power the outlets still work), so this May not be a clue, just normal operation.

A tripping GFI as I recall means that the power going out and coming back to Neutral are not equal. Some power is going somewhere else. This seems to point to a seemingly minor short (really a power leak) in something powered by the circuit (or the wires connecting them). I would:

1) ID every receptacle that is dead when you cut the inverter CB.

2) Unplug items from each of these outlets (one by one) and wait for the GFI to trip. (Start with the microwave so you don't forget it.) and on my rig some of the kitchen outlets were on the microwave circuit so don't forget them.

If you find something that when unplugged makes the tripping stop, don't plug it back in :-), If not, proceeding further will require you to know the circuit pathways and be comfortable with working with wiring (i.e. may be time for an electrician). But the procedure is to disconnect the downstream load starting from the furthest outlet and working back until the problem stops. This will give you an idea of where the leakage is happening (Could be outlet or wires between outlets), but it keeps you from having to check everything.

There may be a better way to do this (especially if you have a VOM meter and more experience than me) but This should give you some more information that may help.

If you get to the point that you are looking at outlets & wires. Don't overlook the possibility of a mouse gnawing on a wire (look for evidence you have a little hitchhiker.)

Hope this helps,

John

 

44 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

John, that was the very first thing he tried but didn't solve his specific problem.

Sorry, I was doing a couple other things and got excited to help and didn't read closely enough.

Thanks for keeping me straight!

John

[MurrayD]

Bill, you stated several outlets in the bedroom go dead when the gfci outlet trips. This indicates those receptacles are on the load side of the gfci plug. There is no need for those receptacles to be gfci protected. I would simply move the wires that feed those receptacles to the line side of the gfci receptacle, you’ll see the screws in the gfci marked line & load. Anything on the load side will be gfci protected while anything connected to the line side will be protected by the breaker feeding the circuit, which is not sensitive to minor current loss to ground.

[Tom Cherry]

Basics…

First, lets go over the concept.  Your inverter has a 30A breaker.  It does TWO THING.  First, it charges the batteries.  Second….it supplies ALL power for the outlets that work or are ON, when you dry camp or boondock.  The inverter has to have two things for you, on shore, to have any internal (the microwave and the outlets that WORK or are ON when the inverter is “inverting.  

OBTW…..if you have a Magnum inverter, then the inverter HAS to be hooked up to a Fair to Middlin” house bank.  There is an Automatic Transfer Switch inside the Magnum.  If the batteries are totally dead and won’t even take a glimmer of a charge, that ATS will NOT send or provide power to your microwave or internal (inverted power) oiutlets.

SO, when you turned off the “inverter” or the 30 Amp breaker….you killed the SOURCE of power for the outets and Microwave.

Bedroom breaker is a NON INVERTED….as in, it does NOT get fed by the inverter.  It has NOTHING to do with the GFCI.  It is fed directly from the breaker….as suggested, you can use a phone charger and find or identify it.  MANY folks thought it was a GREAT thing….as in running their CPAC units.  NOPE…it does NOT come through the inverter.  FINE as long as you are on Shore or Genny..  THOSE 2 outlets that you said are NOT on the GFCI are on that breaker.  When you dry camp, they are dead as the proverbial Door Nail.

Next UP….you CAN NOT TURN OFF THE INVERTER from the remote.  The Magmum (assuming you have that) Corntol or Remote is NOT connected or involved or “messes with” the Intellitec EMS.  That is a load shedding device that controls only 4 circuits.  Power to front AC; Power to Rear AC; Power to Hot Water heater; Power to Washer/Dryer.  It can “ shed or turn off” power when you overload.  The breakers will be ON, but they go directly to the relays in the EMS.  It it ain’t happy, then the relays turn OFF the power.  The breaker stays on….but the downstream circuit is interrupted or turned off.

OK….having said all that….and this is not the first time I have typed this or will be the last….NOW….lets start to fix things.

First…find the TWO (I think you have two receptacles behind the refrigerator. One should be marked REFRIGERATOR and the other ICEMAKER.  The Icemaker is ON the INVERVER’s 120 VAC and is fed as part of the Downstream load…Unlug the icemaker.  There are heater wires inside the icemold and if there is even the whiff of a leak, they will trip a GFCI in a heartbeat.  Now….reset and lets see what is happening.  That is the MOST common source of “MY GFCI TRIPS”.  I won’t bet….but odds are…that is it.  There is a SIMPLE rewiring fix for this….but’s lets find out if this temporarily fixes it.   If you are uncertain…easy way.  Take a phone charger….or something that runs off 120 VAC.  Plug it into either of the two outlets….odds are….one works.  NOW, go to the main panel.  Turn OFF the 10A refrigerator circuit….that kills the heaters, which are 120 VAC.  NOW….if you only have ONE outlet and your refrigerator only has ONE cord….that outlet will be HOT.  So…one outlet….one cord….then the icemaker mold heater is NOT the culprit.

BUT….if you have a residential refrigerator, then it gets complicated.  There are more heaters than you imagine inside the doors and panesl for defrosting and condensation control.  You did not, I think, comment on the residential refrigerator 

I have looked at some of the prints for the Diplomat and there was some “interesting” circuits….where they had, I think, multiple GFCI devices.

OK…hopefully this fixes it.  Post back and we’ll go from there.

if not….gets hairy.  If you have an extension cord and a hand held hair dryer. Then plug it into one of the bedroom outlets and start DRYING OUT every outlet that is on the GFCI.  I’d start with the Icemaker outlet behind the refrigerator.  It does NOT take much moisture to get “inside” an outlet….pull the cover….dry the  out….do one at a time….then try it. BEEN THERE….done that.

Next UP.  Did you use a 20 AMP….yes…the GFCI is 20 AMPS….replacement.  I prefer Eaton Wiring Devices.  Hubbell and Leviton are also “approved”.  Yes, even a new or almost new GFCI will trip. 

NOW….one OTHER TRICK…..is there an unused pedestal nearby?  Can you get to it?  Do you have a 50A extension.  An Upstream “error” or minute “flaw” or short….might manifest itself downstream….not usually the case….but it has happened….

That’s it…..try the recommendations and post the results…..  BTW…most hardware stores carry these brands.  Lowes has their own “house” brand….not for me.  Maybe HD.

NOW..lif you install a new one….make sure you read which wires are LOAD and LINE.  Take a picture of the back and post it….I need to see it to go further.

 

 

 

[Steven P]

2 hours ago, bklaes said:

I'm plugged into 50amp.   The GFI outlet in the rear bath keeps tripping.  It was replaced but the problem persists.  After resetting it, 5-10 minutes later it trips again. 

It appears all but 2 receptacles (in the bedroom) are downstream from this GFI.  When it trips all the bath, galley, salon, & patio outlets go dead.  No other electrical circuits affected.

After trying a lot of things, I came up with this: 
With the GFI set and providing power to all the outlets (I've got 5 minutes before it trips again)...
Turning off the breaker labeled BEDROOM in the rear breaker box makes nothing happen.  All outlets stay powered on.
Turning off the breaker labeled INVERTER in the rear breaker box makes all those outlets power off.
Turning the inverter off at the EMS control switch, does not affect the power to the outlets.

What is this telling me?

I've got a 2005 DST 1.5 bath floorplan - if anybody has the 120v diagram for a DST, it would be greatly appreciated.  I've downloaded the 120 schematic for a 2006 Diplomat.  It helps, but doesn't line up exactly with only 1 bath.   

I had a similar situation in my 06 Dip w 1.5 baths.  GFCI in bathroom would randomly trip.  Happened when we were gone a few hours and came back to find fridge warming up bc of the GFCI being tripped.  I replaced the GFCI and it continued to happen.  Looked into GFCI's more and found they have changed over the years and are more sensitive now.  Replaced the new one with one in pic and no issues since.  I also checked the wiring and made a list of what's on GFCI vs not on it.  Then I changed the fridge line so if the GFCi tripped again, the fridge would not be affected.  All good since then. 

[96 EVO]

Only time I've had an issue with bathroom GFCI tripping, I discovered the ice maker water line had split, and was spraying into the outlet behind the fridge!

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, 96 EVO said:

Only time I've had an issue with bathroom GFCI tripping, I discovered the ice maker water line had split, and was spraying into the outlet behind the fridge!

I contacted Bill, the OP, by phone.  He was at a social function and unable to discuss. He DOES have a gas Norcold and it has the icemaker outlet.  He will unplug and report back.

Ben,  been there….done that, except rinsing the MH after washing.  That outlet never really “dried” out.  A few months later in the fall when the temps dropped low at night…when the sun came up, there was condensation inside the outlet…. I changed to a new GFCI….  But, then I figured out the stupidity of a GFCI on an icemaker or later on, a residential refrigerator circuit.  Moved that “load” Romex to the LINE side….nary a bobble since then.  The GCI just celebrated its 10th birthday and never tripped once…….

[Tom Cherry]

UPDATE.  We think problem is solved.  It “appears” his Norcold (Amish. Rebuilt) icemaker has a wee tiny leak.  As most know and others have posted, the solution, assuming there are two “LOAD” circuits is to out the icemaker on the LINE side.  Testing, of course, that all the LOAD outlets within the 5 ft (rule of thumb) distance from a water source are on the LOAD.

Bill does not dry camp and his GFCI installation is a bit lacking in “wire” slack.  So the easiest fix is to use a 15 A “Y” adapter and run the icemaker and heater units off the 10 A “dedicated” refrigerator breaker.

He had over an hour’s “no issues” run time after he unplugged the icemaker.  He will advise of any change…

[bklaes]

Again, Tom Cherry comes through with great advice. 
I unplugged the Norcold's ice maker and the GFCI has not tripped in 16 hours.  I'll plug the ice maker into the same receptacle as the refrigerator.

I regret and apologize that I didn't search for my problem on here first. 
My thought was, this is so weird, I doubt anyone has ever seen anything like this before.  I was wrong and will do better next time.   
Thanks to all that helped me through it.