2007 Dynasty - Bad Surge Guard ATS switch. Bought NEW...OPPS....What do I DO?

[Donflem]

So my ATS box started clicking and no shore power so I ran the generator everything was fine so I took a picture of the box and ordered a new box. I got the new box had a technician come out to install it but they are not the same. I’m told the new one is the replacement for my old one his shop sent him this text about a surge guard remote he said I don’t have one and I could just order and replace the bad relay. Soooo now I have a $900 dollar ATS box I’m not sure I can return because it’s electric. My question to the group is can I just try and find the relay to fix the old box or look for a replacement box that matches this whole thing is out of my comfort zone. Thanks in advance.

Don

[Dr4Film]

That ATS, 40350RVC is the correct replacement for the 40250. However, the new box does not talk to the Aladdin System. You would have to purchase their matching remote to get a display inside the coach.

They do make a 40450RVC which I have been told does talk with Aladdin System but I have not been able to verify that information. Plus, it is significantly more expensive.

[willbo777]

I installed a 40350RVC in our coach when the original 40250 died.  It does require its own monitor, but it was easy to install and only changes where to get the same info.  I was disappointed to stop having to use the Aladdin, but they told me none of their units talks to it anymore.

[Marine Boy]

I recently repaired my Surge Guard 40250 by replacing the relay.  First question is do you have a functioning Aladdin system that you want to keep using?  If you do and the relay in your SG is the problem, you can fix it by replacing the bad relay.  I recently wrote a paper on my repair for our blog.  Go to downloads at the top of our blog page and under "What's New" my paper is the first item explaining my repair.  Feel free to contact me with any questions.   You could probably give the repair process to your mechanic if you can't do it your self.  Good Luck.

[Georgia Mike]

Great write up John on replacing the bad relay. If mine ever goes bad and it’s just one of the relays I will definitely use your information to change it out. I would miss the Aladdin system, I use it all the time.  

[cbr046]

Mine went bad and it was the control board inside the ATS.  Control board or parts on it were no longer available.  Bummer.

- bob

[Tom Cherry]

Many posts...some comments are NOT applicable to the Surge Guard ATS that OP has. Here is the Background, as I THINK that I (MOI) understand it, but anyone that has more technical or correct information needs to chime in.

There was one (I think...maybe a few others) Surge Guard ATS used that had an output with an Interface that worked with the Aladdin System. NOT sure about the various versions of Aladdin, but on the later Dynasties (circa the 2007 or so), this is correct.

Surge Guard stopped making that particular model or maybe decided that it's technology was out of date. There were also some issues or maybe changes in the Aladdin and the need to mate up the Aladdin and the Surge Guard did NOT have that much demand.  Frank McElroy and chime in with the specifics...but in general, Don't ATS is broken. He ordered a NEW ONE and it will not interface with his Aladdin. 

John ( @Marine Boy ) did an great job of chasing down the repair parts so that the older Surge Guard could be salvaged. He "FIXED" it and then provided the following White Paper (an Old Yahoo Term) or HOW TO... Here it is.  

 NOW, specifically, for Don's dillema... 

YES, the Surge Guard, IF it is is "Broken" as in the Cutler Hammer Contactor, it CAN be FIXED.  Read the HOW TO and then decide "CAN I DO THIS?"

Next up is some information that many of us, offline, have discussed. There is a MOV (google that term) board in the ATS. That board or Printed Circuit 
Board is what provided the Protection for SURGES. There are also at least one or maybe TWO fuses. If the MOV's (Surge Protection Sacrificial devices) get ZAPPED OR if one of the fuses blows, then there will be error codes. Ordinarily, Surge Guard recommends that you return for examination....as in.. "We don't fix these turkeys....buy a new one".  That is a little harsh, but the Surge Guard ATS are NOT or were NOT designed for Field Repairs. TRC/Surge Guard's number one Field Rep tried to get them to redesign.  NOPE.  He left.  He and his EE Brother designed a Surge Suppressor.  He called his company "Progressive Industries" and Tommy Fannelli was the owner or the Ex TRC Employee and the rest is history.

OK....back to the Surge Guard.  The Contactor can be replaced. The MOV's and the Fuses can be replaced. However, the electronic skills to remove and replace the MOV's may not be in some folk's "Skill Set"

NOW, there supposedly is a "Remote Monitor" Panel that can be used to get the Aladdin INFO.  Don't know the cost or how hard it would be to install....

There are many folks, in the past...here, I think, but definitely on the old Yahoo Site that said...  I WANT SIMPLICITY. They installed a Progressive HW50C and have ALL the features of the Surge Guard, plus many more and a smidge more "Surge Capacity". The HW50C is FIELD serviceable. Two simple PCB boards and a Contactor. They also installed the ESCO (LYGHT) ATS. Again.  Simplicity and can be FIELD FIXED as ESCO supplies tech support and parts.

In Don's case... TOTALLY up to him. USUALLY, if an Electronic Component has NOT been installed and is in the original box and packaging, then most vendors will accept returns. SOME WILL NOT...  Some have a Restocking fee.  SO....the options.

Install the new switch.  Live without or add the supplemental monitor.  I would do the MATH on that.

Fix the Old Switch.  Read up and decide...can I DO THIS?  

Abandon the setup.  Return the new Switch.  Put in the HW50C and the LPT50BRD (LYGHT) ATS. Maybe $600 and I think that is HIGH. One phone cable will be run inside the MH and you mount the Remote for the HW50C.

Not my call....just the options as I see them...

Hope this clarifies and also provides the HOW TO to fix the broken Surge Guard....IF..BIG IF...It was the SAME issue as John has.

Good Luck.  Let us know what you do.  It helps everyone learn...

[Marine Boy]

27 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Many posts...some comments are NOT applicable to the Surge Guard ATS that OP has. Here is the Background, as I THINK that I (MOI) understand it, but anyone that has more technical or correct information needs to chime in.

There was one (I think...maybe a few others) Surge Guard ATS used that had an output with an Interface that worked with the Aladdin System. NOT sure about the various versions of Aladdin, but on the later Dynasties (circa the 2007 or so), this is correct.

Surge Guard stopped making that particular model or maybe decided that it's technology was out of date. There were also some issues or maybe changes in the Aladdin and the need to mate up the Aladdin and the Surge Guard did NOT have that much demand.  Frank McElroy and chime in with the specifics...but in general, Don't ATS is broken. He ordered a NEW ONE and it will not interface with his Aladdin. 

John ( @Marine Boy ) did an great job of chasing down the repair parts so that the older Surge Guard could be salvaged. He "FIXED" it and then provided the following White Paper (an Old Yahoo Term) or HOW TO... Here it is.  

 NOW, specifically, for Don's dillema... 

YES, the Surge Guard, IF it is is "Broken" as in the Cutler Hammer Contactor, it CAN be FIXED.  Read the HOW TO and then decide "CAN I DO THIS?"

Next up is some information that many of us, offline, have discussed. There is a MOV (google that term) board in the ATS. That board or Printed Circuit 
Board is what provided the Protection for SURGES. There are also at least one or maybe TWO fuses. If the MOV's (Surge Protection Sacrificial devices) get ZAPPED OR if one of the fuses blows, then there will be error codes. Ordinarily, Surge Guard recommends that you return for examination....as in.. "We don't fix these turkeys....buy a new one".  That is a little harsh, but the Surge Guard ATS are NOT or were NOT designed for Field Repairs. TRC/Surge Guard's number one Field Rep tried to get them to redesign.  NOPE.  He left.  He and his EE Brother designed a Surge Suppressor.  He called his company "Progressive Industries" and Tommy Fannelli was the owner or the Ex TRC Employee and the rest is history.

OK....back to the Surge Guard.  The Contactor can be replaced. The MOV's and the Fuses can be replaced. However, the electronic skills to remove and replace the MOV's may not be in some folk's "Skill Set"

NOW, there supposedly is a "Remote Monitor" Panel that can be used to get the Aladdin INFO.  Don't know the cost or how hard it would be to install....

There are many folks, in the past...here, I think, but definitely on the old Yahoo Site that said...  I WANT SIMPLICITY. They installed a Progressive HW50C and have ALL the features of the Surge Guard, plus many more and a smidge more "Surge Capacity". The HW50C is FIELD serviceable. Two simple PCB boards and a Contactor. They also installed the ESCO (LYGHT) ATS. Again.  Simplicity and can be FIELD FIXED as ESCO supplies tech support and parts.

In Don's case... TOTALLY up to him. USUALLY, if an Electronic Component has NOT been installed and is in the original box and packaging, then most vendors will accept returns. SOME WILL NOT...  Some have a Restocking fee.  SO....the options.

Install the new switch.  Live without or add the supplemental monitor.  I would do the MATH on that.

Fix the Old Switch.  Read up and decide...can I DO THIS?  

Abandon the setup.  Return the new Switch.  Put in the HW50C and the LPT50BRD (LYGHT) ATS. Maybe $600 and I think that is HIGH. One phone cable will be run inside the MH and you mount the Remote for the HW50C.

Not my call....just the options as I see them...

Hope this clarifies and also provides the HOW TO to fix the broken Surge Guard....IF..BIG IF...It was the SAME issue as John has.

Good Luck.  Let us know what you do.  It helps everyone learn...

Thanks Tom, for clarifying all of the possibilities.  I know I am not the best at writing full details on issues as being ADHD type person, my brain isn't good at spelling out detail. LOL!

Happy Holidays to All!

 

[Vince Toscano]

Hi 

The configuration of contactors is tiplical of a forward/reversing for a 3 phase motor. I am not sure but based on your description it sounds like the control board has failed, contactor on my part. This pair on contactors has a mechanical interlock between them to make sure only one is sending power through to the coach. Although some parts can be replaced, I would be leary  of just rebuilding only because of the mechanical parts wear with time. If these contactors fail, shore power and generator power could be bucking, or back feeding, If not on the same phase a short. Risking damage to the generator, shore power breaker panel and or fire. 

[Donflem]

5 hours ago, Marine Boy said:

I recently repaired my Surge Guard 40250 by replacing the relay.  First question is do you have a functioning Aladdin system that you want to keep using?  If you do and the relay in your SG is the problem, you can fix it by replacing the bad relay.  I recently wrote a paper on my repair for our blog.  Go to downloads at the top of our blog page and under "What's New" my paper is the first item explaining my repair.  Feel free to contact me with any questions.   You could probably give the repair process to your mechanic if you can't do it your self.  Good Luck.

John it looks like you did a swap out with the Eaton c25fnf360a so I’m going to order that part from Amazon and do that swap. Thanks for the info. I’ll let everyone know how it went.

Don

[Marine Boy]

7 minutes ago, Donflem said:

John it looks like you did a swap out with the Eaton c25fnf360a so I’m going to order that part from Amazon and do that swap. Thanks for the info. I’ll let everyone know how it went.

Don

Hi Don,  You may want do the test in my explanation, to make sure the control board is working properly and data is sent to Aladdin properly.   Best, John

[Donflem]

1 hour ago, Marine Boy said:

Hi Don,  You may want do the test in my explanation, to make sure the control board is working properly and data is sent to Aladdin properly.   Best, John

Thanks John I will follow your lead on testing first I went ahead and ordered it but it won’t arrive till the 1st of the year so I thought I would get it in the mail it’s Amazon so I can always return it. 
Don

[Yoaks5]

Another option...When my transfer switch died I switched to the ATS Tom recommended above but used the Guard Dog hard wired surge protector. This surge protector has Bluetooth so I can see all the electric info from my phone including fault codes if I have one. Very nice I really like it. This unit is also Field serviceable. 

Hughes Autoformers PWD50-EPO-H, 50 Amp Spike Power Watchdog with Shut Off, Hardwired https://a.co/d/0EQeW2i

 

 

[Donflem]

So Kevin you got me thinking because I already have a watch dog but it’s a plug 🔌 in unit. I guess I’m only second guessing myself because of the Aladdin system read outs on the dash but how often do I even use that information? It really is great to have all you guys input. It sure doesn’t help when it all hits you on a holiday. Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Don

[Donflem]

So I went ahead with the new switch because I couldn’t get the part to fix the old switch so now I will have to find the remote display that communicates with the new box. Thanks gentlemen for all your advice. I hope everyone had a great Christmas and looking forward to the new year. 
God Bless Don

[Dr4Film]

The remote display for that transfer switch is model 40299.

https://www.amazon.com/Technology-Research-40299-Hardwire-Automatic/dp/B01IL150KO

[Donflem]

Thanks Richard.

[Yoaks5]

On 12/24/2023 at 12:52 PM, Donflem said:

So Kevin you got me thinking because I already have a watch dog but it’s a plug 🔌 in unit. I guess I’m only second guessing myself because of the Aladdin system read outs on the dash but how often do I even use that information? It really is great to have all you guys input. It sure doesn’t help when it all hits you on a holiday. Merry Christmas to you and your family.

Don

I don't look at or use my Alladin any more. I have access to the info in much better ways. The electric info I see on my phone from the surge protector, I have a bluefire I use for all my gauges. And I installed a 360 degree camera system that I can see both the birds eye view and the rear camera all the time. I really like this system. Probably the best improvement I have made.