Ali-026 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Hello Everyone I have this clicking noise coming from the dash/firewall area when ignition is on and dash air is not in the OFF position. First I thought dash air fan was touching something but noticed the clicking does not change with fan speed. I listened to it from the firewall side and it seems to be coming from the device marked in yellow. Any suggestions on the cause and how to fix it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Wallis Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 That appears to be an electric hot water control valve and it could possibly be going bad. Try turning the temperature control to cold and see if it stops. Does the temp control work effectively at controlling the heater temperature? That might give some clues. If it didn't make noise before then it may be about to fail. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 If you google “automotive HVAC water valve clicks”, you get several hits. Common causes, other than “failure” are low coolant or an air bubble. MANUALLY, with a flashlight check the coolant tank. I’d try cycling it in a few different ways. The Camelots, or my opinion, are notoriously inadequate in the heat mode. One great trick. Put the system in MAX COOL and fan on at least medium. BUT turn the heater control to MAX HOT. That fully opens the valve, but shuts off all incoming (BRRR COLD outside air). Drive it and let it run for a while…..then go to 100% cold….”rinse & repeat”. Then run it at various points in between and go to max on either end a few times. If there is a bubble, or a smidge of debris, that might dislodge it as well as cycling it to “loosen” it up. There are some comments about purging the air if you replace it. A replacement should be easy to find if you pull the PN from the old one. Find an AC shop that works on busses….they will have the most hands on experience. Make sure that you DO diagnose the source…”feel” or putting a long screwdriver on it and putting your ear on the handle….or a short length of tubing to your year (Mechanic’s stethoscope). Sometimes a cycling “air valve gate” will do the same… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali-026 Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 (edited) Thank you Tom Wallis and Tom Cherry, I appreciate your assistance. I went to the RV today, and tested a few things. First I confirmed the clicking was definitely coming from the device marked in yellow. It is a Dorman heater water shutoff valve actuator (604-6105). I think the valve itself is underneath, and this thing just opens and closes the valve. I am thinking may be I should separate the actuator from the valve and then turn the valve manually hoping it will dislodge what ever preventing the valve to close. I've tried cycling temp control and AC, and clicking is most obvious at full cold position, stops around midway and no clicking when temp setting is hot. I will see if I can figure out how to separate the actuator from the valve and update the group on my progress. Edited March 27 by Ali-026 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 28 Share Posted March 28 11 hours ago, Ali-026 said: Thank you Tom Wallis and Tom Cherry, I appreciate your assistance. I went to the RV today, and tested a few things. First I confirmed the clicking was definitely coming from the device marked in yellow. It is a Dorman heater water shutoff valve actuator (604-6105). I think the valve itself is underneath, and this thing just opens and closes the valve. I am thinking may be I should separate the actuator from the valve and then turn the valve manually hoping it will dislodge what ever preventing the valve to close. I've tried cycling temp control and AC, and clicking is most obvious at full cold position, stops around midway and no clicking when temp setting is hot. I will see if I can figure out how to separate the actuator from the valve and update the group on my progress. OK.... here is what I would do. I did a lot of googling this morning. Unless you missed (typo) on the 604-6105 Dorman part number... I can't find it. BUT....doing a LOT of searching on the Dorman site...as well as some reading and such.... I would do one quick thing. I would put my VOM (volts...probably) probes on the top connector of the valve. I think you can get them them in there....otherwise use two paper clips of sewing needles (old shadetree trick). Then have a helper rotate the heater control valve and look at the signal. Also measure it in the COLD and MIDDLE and HOT positions. I personally do NOT know if the controller is supposed to be sending out a signal when you shut the valve off....or "pulse it". That is a mystery, to me, the novice as it pertains to HVAC Systems.... The OTHER issue....when the valve is in the OFF position (engine hot and the blower on full blast) does the "downstream" side of the hose get COOL...as in there is NO flow of coolant....in other words, other than the clicking... does the valve work properly. THEN... I would start to get hold of Dorman and talk to their tech support. First...you will need to find out the current PN (unless I goofed) as it appears the 2007 or so PN is no longer available... Probably have a replacement and we need that for our Parts List. Second.. Ask THEM just how that sucker is supposed to work and why it clicks when it is supposed to be SHUT OFF. They know way more that anyone else and can tell you the signal and operating characteristics. That's my take on it. Sometimes asking questions is great....especially since I can't find any info on how it is supposed to work... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycarz Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 I don’t know if this valve is interchangeable with yours, but assume it would as it is using same dash controls. Darn snowflakes. My 2008 Camelot is an early build, as I ordered my it in April 2007 and took factory delivery that June. What is your coach number (71xxxx) if you don’t mind sharing? Also when was it made? Tom, what does your heater viable look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Mine is the same as Harry's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali-026 Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 OK, I've separated the actuator from the valve body (only 3 screws to remove). First I've tested the valve by manually turning it left and right, it was not stuck and working properly. Then I've tested the actuator by turning heater control cold to hot, then back a few times while monitoring the actuator, it was working first but then went out of range. I think the actuator is acting up, trying to go out of range and causing the clicks in the mechanism. I am going to open it up to see if I can fix it: On 3/29/2024 at 7:50 PM, Happycarz said: I don’t know if this valve is interchangeable with yours, but assume it would as it is using same dash controls. Darn snowflakes. My 2008 Camelot is an early build, as I ordered my it in April 2007 and took factory delivery that June. What is your coach number (71xxxx) if you don’t mind sharing? Also when was it made? Snowflakes indeed. My valve/actuator looks different, but it uses the same dash controls. Our 2008 Camelot unit number is 713072 and it was manufactured in December 2007. If you don't mind sharing, what is the number difference between your 2008 Camelot and ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Ours is 712598 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali-026 Posted March 31 Author Share Posted March 31 21 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Ours is 712598 Thanks. It seems like Monaco used the same unit numbers for H.R models as well. I wish there were public records of how many Camelots, Scepters, etc were built each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 7 hours ago, Ali-026 said: OK, I've separated the actuator from the valve body (only 3 screws to remove). First I've tested the valve by manually turning it left and right, it was not stuck and working properly. Then I've tested the actuator by turning heater control cold to hot, then back a few times while monitoring the actuator, it was working first but then went out of range. I think the actuator is acting up, trying to go out of range and causing the clicks in the mechanism. I am going to open it up to see if I can fix it: Snowflakes indeed. My valve/actuator looks different, but it uses the same dash controls. Our 2008 Camelot unit number is 713072 and it was manufactured in December 2007. If you don't mind sharing, what is the number difference between your 2008 Camelot and ours? OK….You have more insight and hands on than I do. But, my comment, if I read all your posts correctly…. The clicking is when the TEMP Control is in the FULL SHUT OFF or closed valve position…. My Thoughts…. The valve body either has a slight “obstruction” as it will not close or get close to closing. Maybe spray a bit of WD-40 into where the actuator “drive” or the plastic ring in your picture. Then spray the mating side of the valve body. I go way back in I used to remove “deluxe” heater control panels from junk yard cars and upgrade the lower ends….like in my Daddy’s 1954 Chevy. In the “Olden” days, there was a “lawn mower” throttle cable that was in the dash unit. You moved it and the wire inside moved the heater control valve. So, it was mechanical. Eventually, then your accelerator pedal went that way. BUT. Electronics improved….and you had “drive” by wire. There is a “volume” control pad or sensor or such in your accelerator assembly. You push down…..and through a “multiplex” set of wires, you move the actuator or the “valve body” to let in air. My logic…. When you decide you want it warmer or cooler….you turn the equivalent of a “radio volume” knob. The HVAC controller sends out a signal and the valve is moved to a certain position or so many degrees. We don’t have “auto temp sensing” controls on our MH like in most vehicles. So…you set the valve to mid point. The HVAC controller sends out a signal to put the valve body at, say 50% (based on flow” Open (or closed if you like). NOW….you want NO HEATED WATER through the valve…. The controller sends out a signal to fully close. So…how does the controller know how far to move or whatever??? I DO NOT KNOW. But obviously, it ain’t working. NOW…if the WD-40 doesn’t loosen…and I often have sliding plastic parts that get a little sticky….doesn’t work…. My suggestion….call Dorman. Right now, I don’t know if there is a faulty signal from the HVAC control or if you have a bad actuator or the valve body won’t let it fully close….or if there is some wear in the mating parts of the valve and actuator….. Dorman can tell you “how it works”. I tried a few days ago to google Dorman Actuator trouble shooting and didn’t get much. What I don’t know is “how does a simple sensor or volume control” work and does it send out a pulsed voltage or a specific resistance or voltage. That is why I suggested that you probe the harness to get an idea. I wouldn’t helter skelter replace any parts. Dorman, or a good OTR or Bus HVAC shop can trouble shoot….maybe we have that skill here…but no one has chimed in. In addition….Dorman is gonna have to tell you the current PN for the valve and the actuator….as it has to “interface” with your controller….assuming it is NOT a faulty controller….PITA to replace. BTW….I am the WORST at penny pinching. If the controller works and doesn’t click when the Temp Control is set to “almost” cold…. And when you hear it CLICK…..there is no perceptible heat or hot water coming from the valve….I might “unplug” the harness. Does the valve STILL stay closed? If so, then, i would install a switch up front. Turn the temp to full cold….it clicks….turn off the signal to the valve and drive on. A $5 fix….YES….NOT OEM….but we have many systems that no longer work as designed and parts are not available or the fix is several hundred dollars…. Again….my take. But we do need feedback as you go down this path…putting in a new valve and/or actuator….and NOT knowing if the issue is in HVAC controller signal or in the valve/actuator could be expensive and more work than I would do. Unfortunately, we do have instances, too often….way too often, where a shop or an individual doesn’t fully troubleshoot and then replaces and hopes and then has to come back and figure out what is really wrong….and is several hundred dollars “poorer”. THAT is why we, the moderating staff” always focus on understanding and troubleshooting before tearing into something and spending money on unneeded parts. Thanks…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 I had this problem with my 2003 Toyota 4-Runner w automatic climate control. The controller looks similar . . . but drove a mechanical lever to move louvers, etc. that I'd grease with a very light grease. Internally I figured the plastic / nylon gears had finally lived a near full life, or maybe the internal controller had gotten gummed up. I couldn't get to it without removing the dash so it was what it was. All that said, the controller may be a generic controller . . . . Monaco used a lot of GM parts. - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandick66 Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Looking at your interior controls, it appears to be a Ford system. However, it looks like your blend control valve is GM type. I believe the company that made these for Monaco is SCS or something like that. I think they are out of San Antonio TX. You should be able to find a sticker or on one of the AC components on the coach. Based on my experience, Dorman is an aftermarket supplier. Your blend control valve sure looks like the one in the Amazon link below. Have you verified that you got the part number correct, or did you contact Dorman as Tom suggested? He said he couldn’t find 604-6105. Yours sure looks like a 610-106. https://www.amazon.com/Actuator-Replaces-89018365-1994-2012-Silverado/dp/B07M7Z2JW8/ref=asc_df_B07M7Z2JW8/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=330426419246&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16684606023890238269&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9008394&hvtargid=pla-644927302503&psc=1&mcid=b5cd2f10870d3592bd521f1d981df9a8&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzZmwBhD8ARIsAH4v1gXLLUJbigcSuorkPA5HLPLBthN6wzgHgOi5-Qbj4coBRchpgLj_Sm8aArJrEALw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 10 hours ago, Ali-026 said: Thanks. It seems like Monaco used the same unit numbers for H.R models as well. I wish there were public records of how many Camelots, Scepters, etc were built each year. From what I've been told, every model built in Coburg OR was assigned the next number before heading down the assembly line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycarz Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 When touring the Oregon factory, the folks there stated, like Ben said, that coaches were assigned a sequential number, regardless of the model. Oregon made side radiator coaches, while Indiana made rear radiator coaches. In Oregon you would see a Navigator next to a Camelot. You would have to look closely to figure which model was what, as they were all non painted with no emblems. Why the difference in hot water valves is a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 Yep. The SAME backbone harnesses were used on the Camelots and Dynasty. How I KNOW. The Camelots have wires for all sorts of things that don’t exist…like switches on compartments and doors. The front end clips were identical for the HVAC….lots more goodies on the Dynasty… The Dorman number was what was posted. It was 604-6105. No hits using Dorman.. Personally… troubleshoot….and Dorman is the first line and cheap and easy. If Happycarz can give you the PN for the valve and controller….my gut says….it will work. What you don’t know is what the “pigtail” should read when full closed. My “oldtimer” gut says that the controller is a “stepper” motor…. But I could be wrong. So, the controller sends out a “synchronous” signal. Synchronous controllers have been used for 50 or more years. I played with one that the Textile Engineering Department made in the early 60. It was used for going back and forth during a Kodak Carousel slide presentation. So a student could ask “what about this?”. The prof knew which slide had the info…so, he had a “dial” with 100 holes. He just rotated the dial and called up “slide 75”. That control then rotated the slide tray so slide 75 was lined up and dropped down. Same principle here. You set the control to a point. The controller then signals or moves the actuator/valve to that position…. In the issue here….the actuator is trying to close….but the valve won’t move that far or let the actuator cycle fully. Thus, a “slip joint” or clutch keeps “clicking”….as the actuator is still trying to get into position. I know or think that is how it works… Dorman needs to tell you HOW it works and what could be wrong. My money’s on a problem with the valve going fully fully closed….so lube the mating pieces….cycle the valve (manually) so it goes full rotation… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycarz Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 I google the part number, H42C-2212-000, off the valve in my picture. The new one shown, is a replacement for the OE valve. https://www.comfortairgr.com/product/electronic-coolant-valve-ranco-h42c-2212-000-046-2212-000/ YIKES!!!!! $295.74 from the above link. Look around on this page, then call them. http://acmeairparts.com/rvacheaterparts.html#!/Heater-valves-and-Cables/c/16022427 I needed a new evaporator box and had questions. The fellow I spoke to sounded like the owner, was very pleasant, and could answer all my questions. And his prices were way lower than his competitor. Looking at the heater valves though, I don’t know if there is a cheap way out. Maybe he will have some insight for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Ali-026 Posted April 1 Author Solution Share Posted April 1 Thank you everyone. It must have been my lucky day as I solved the mystery after opening the actuator. Ordered a new one from Amazon. I will update the group *hopefully with successful results in a few days: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D8VIW5W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 Good find 👍! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 2 hours ago, Ali-026 said: Thank you everyone. It must have been my lucky day as I solved the mystery after opening the actuator. Ordered a new one from Amazon. I will update the group *hopefully with successful results in a few days: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01D8VIW5W AHA said the poster....and AHA it is. That is the SAME thing that happens to your STEPS. When the plastic gear shears....TROUBLE...as in a SAFETY HAZARD. The steps will buckle or "collapse" and a serious fall (the older one is....the higher the odds of a severe injury). I NOW see the GUTS. YES, this is a TYPICAL Synchronous MOTOR controller. The "signal" from the front "Control" or as I call it a "Volume Control" is what determine WHERE the Motor will stop. ONE END.....or the OTHER....or the middle or anywhere between. NOW that you have the mechanical defect identified (Proper TROUBLESHOOTING) then replacement is logical and you will NOT be disappointed that spending bucks on a replacement for a GOOD part.... as has happened in the past. Thanks for perserving and digging into it. HAD you NOT found any internal issues....then the Valve Body would have been my next candidate....as I would NOT want to have to change out the HVAC control. Good Job. Followup... @Frank McElroy Looks like the Amazon part is a candidate for the Parts List. @Ali-026 Now that you have the cover off.. If you can take some GOOD photos of the PN of the Valve Body as well as the controller (the OEM number), please PM and upload them to Frank. He will use them in the parts list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali-026 Posted Saturday at 09:50 PM Author Share Posted Saturday at 09:50 PM (edited) Would a similar year Camelot owner willing to share a photo of their dash heater valve / actuator? I've installed the replacement Dorman 604-5105 actuator, first I've tested it separate from the valve, and noticed the throw was much wider than anticipated. I first thought the replacement unit was not compatible, so I swapped the gears and connected the old one, and it was still the same, a wider turn angle. Here are some photos of the actuator and valve cold-hot positions. I am thinking either Monaco messed it up with this setup or the PO had something incompatible installed. If someone with a 2006 to 2010 Camelot share a photo of their dash valve and actuator -or the part numbers, if would be super helpful to troubleshoot this issue. Thank you Ali Edited Saturday at 10:27 PM by Ali-026 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycarz Posted Sunday at 05:40 AM Share Posted Sunday at 05:40 AM Go back up toward the beginning of this thread to see the picture of my valve, with the part number still on it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali-026 Posted Monday at 03:57 AM Author Share Posted Monday at 03:57 AM 22 hours ago, Happycarz said: Go back up toward the beginning of this thread to see the picture of my valve, with the part number still on it. Thank you so much and I am so sorry, I think I was reading your response on the phone, did not notice the photo. I also missed Ben confirming that he had the same unit as yours. Thank you Harry, Ben, Tom, Bob and Dan, your responses were super helpful, and your help is greatly appreciated.✔️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now