Things every Motor coach owner needs to know - for safety

[1nolaguy]

This post should probably be split up and posted under several headings but I do not have it in me to deal with that now. While it deals with towing 4 down it also has to do with fire safety and reality when traveling.

Last year we decided to replace out 2005 Mazda for a car that could be towed 4 down. Dealing with a dolly at 70 was becoming too much of a hassle. After much research and evaluation we bought a 2023 Chevy Equinox RS FWD. I had it outfitted with a Roadmaster tow plate and an NSA Elite Brute II tow bar. From the git go we had issues getting the lights to work but that was eventually solved. ( I know, so far this looks like a toad discussion). Two days ago we left on a bucket list trip from Louisiana to Washington State where we plan a cruise to Alaska. We drove the first 100 miles or so disconnected as we felt uncomfortable towing in Baton Rouge traffic

After crossing the Atchafalya Basin, a raised roadway about 20 miles long, my wife notified me on the walki talki that the brakes were making a grinding noise. When we got off the bridge we pulled over and my wife got out to check the wheels. She yelled to me the wheel was on fire. The rotor on the front passenger side was in flames. I grabbed an extinguisher we keep at the door next to the passenger seat and emptied it low and directly on the flames. The whole canister. The flames went out but then started again a few seconds later. While my wife called 911 I ran back to the RV and grabbed the two canisters of liquid/gas fire suppressant I had purchased two years ago at the Monacoer's rally Tampa FL. I emptied the first and extinguished the flames only to have them return a minute later. I emptied the second can laying on the ground so I could reach behind the wheel so as to spray suppressant on the back side of the hub. The flames went out again. I pulled the coach forward a safe distance of about 75 feet and ran back to the car just as the police were arriving. About that time the flames reappeared and I ran back to the coach and into the bedroom where I kept a 4th extinguisher. I again emptied it, laying on the ground to spray behind the wheel.

Now, covered with yellow powder, the flame appeared finally not to re-ignite, just as the fire truck arrived. While it seemed like an hour the whole time from when we stopped until the fire department arrived was probably less than 10 min. Quick action protected the coach and most of the car. We had it towed to a Chevy dealership who advised that apparently the brakes locked. The wheel hub, break rotors, pads and brake lines all need to be replaced all around. The cause is yet to be determined and our trip is now going to be without the RV.

The purpose for this posting is to point out that often we think if we have one or two fire extinguishers on board that is plenty. We have been traveling since 2018 and I always thought of them as a bit over kill having more than one or two and frankly thought if I ever used one it would be as a good Samaritan putting someone else's fire out. Had I not had four it is likely our new car and its contents would have been up in flames by the time the FD arrived. Had we been hooked up it is possible we could have lot the car and the motor coach. It can happen that quickly. I can not stress enough how grateful I was to have multiple extinguishers and to know where all of them were located, in a spot that was easily accessible.

[Frank McElroy]

Thank you for sharing this information. 

What supplemental braking system did you have on the Equinox?

[Chargerman]

I see from his post that he had the NSA system. I have their system also which is a cable operated surge brake system which I do like very much. From I read the toad was not hooked to the coach and his wife was driving it. Since it seems that it was newly installed I can’t help but wonder if the actuator cable or the breakaway cable could have jammed but I would think that the dealer would have found that during the repair

[Frank McElroy]

5 minutes ago, Chargerman said:

I see from his post that he had the NSA system. I have their system also which is a cable operated surge brake system which I do like very much. From I read the toad was not hooked to the coach and his wife was driving it. Since it seems that it was newly installed I can’t help but wonder if the actuator cable or the breakaway cable could have jammed but I would think that the dealer would have found that during the repair

Steve, thanks for the clarification.  I'm not familiar with the NSA system.  However, it sure sounds like it was partially applying the brakes.

[Dbircky]

His wife was driving separately and pulled over when she heard noise from the brakes.    The nsa tow bar shouldn't have been attached.  Not sure how that system would only be applying one brake.   
More likely is the caliber slider bolts were stuck, or the pads couldn't float due to corrosion or lack of lube.   Causing the pads to drag on that wheel this the heat and resulting flames.   One advantage of doing maintenance yourself is checking these critical failure points.  

[Chargerman]

Certainly a possibility that a  caliper froze but lack of maintenance and corrosion were not the culprits since it is  not more than a year old

[Tom Cherry]

YES..... This is a bit "broad" in perspective.  BUT, to piggy back on the SAFETY ASPECT of a TOWED vehicle.  It is to MOST OF US, imperative to run a TPMS that has sensors on the TOAD.  We have had many instances of failed TOAD brakes (as in this case...I presume) or bad wheel bearings or punctures.

A GOOD TPMS on the toad will alert you when the pressure drop (Leaking air) or SPIKES (Supplemental braking system is malfunctioning, wheel bearing has failed, brakes have LOCKED up, etc.).

SO, add this to the list of why a complete "all wheels down" TPMS and having the alarms set properly and also WATCHING the monitor is an "IMPORTANT SAFETY MATTER"

[Martinvz]

The cause is not the same as our experience but may help understand some causes.
About 4 years ago we left Assateague Island MD after setting up the CR-V for towing. After driving a few (maybe 5) miles I commented that something is holding the coach back and would not drive the way it should. We stopped and found the brakes were cooking and really hot. End result, the brakes on all 4 wheels had to be replaced.

The cause? The Patriot brake system presses against the seat and the unit determines in its setup the distance for it to operate effectively. At the end of the setup process the seat was moved a little forward to remove some if the slack. Lesson learned, leave it where it is !!

I do not recall if the TPMS reported high temps but that could have been the case. 

Edited March 29 by Martinvz
Tom’ comments on TPMS

[dchief61]

Sorry to hear for your unfortunate experience. To address your firefight and why you ran into such trouble with extinguishment. The brakes were red hot.  Your first choice to knock down the fire with a dry chemical extinguisher was a correct choice.  The reason you experienced several re-ignition issues was heat.  The brakes needed to be cooled.  

I always carry a small water extinguisher with us for cooling, along with several ABC type dry chemical extinguishers.  Retired firefighter, maybe a little bit over cautious.  

Since it is not practical for everyone to carry different types of extinguishers, I suggest we all carry at least two (2) of the standard ABC type extinguishers.  One near the front door and one in the rear of the coach. Additionally, carry a couple gallons of bottled water to cool off what was on fire to prevent re-ignition. 

When confronted with fire, immediately knock down the fire with the ABC extinguisher and then, once the flames have stopped, grab a gallon of bottled water, small bottles of water or fill a bucket/pan of water from the sink or outside shower if you have one to cool off what was on fire. This will lower the flash point of the substance that is on fire to prevent re-ignition.

Most importantly, stay calm, think clearly, and act with purpose.  Have a plan.  Make sure everyone has exited the vehicle and is in a safe location.  Then, if you’re confident in your abilities try to knock down the fire.  If not, stay in a safe spot and let it burn.  

Additionally, as a reminder to everyone, please check your smoke detectors and change batteries twice a year at time change.  Most detectors are located in or near the kitchen area.  I love bacon, so more than once I have found the detector in a drawer since our dog hates the sound when it goes off.  We have had many discussions regarding the importance of the detector returned to its location.  The compromise was I do the dishes and make sure the detector is returned to its original location after a meal with something good like bacon .  Win some, lose some.  

 

Edited March 29 by dchief61

[96 EVO]

Had a similar issue (without the flames) when I allowed a hitch business install the car part of an AF-1 system on my wife's Chev Sonic 😣!

Everything needed to be replaced right down to the spindles.

Long story but in the end, the installer failed to drill a small pilot hole thru the firewall and check for clearance behind it. Instead, he ran about a 2" self tapping screw thru there, right into the cars brake booster!

After his company paid the repair bill, don't know whether he still was employed, or not 🤔!

[1nolaguy]

2 hours ago, Martinvz said:

The cause is not the same as our experience but may help understand some causes.
About 4 years ago we left Assateague Island MD after setting up the CR-V for towing. After driving a few (maybe 5) miles I commented that something is holding the coach back and would not drive the way it should. We stopped and found the brakes were cooking and really hot. End result, the brakes on all 4 wheels had to be replaced.

The cause? The Patriot brake system presses against the seat and the unit determines in its setup the distance for it to operate effectively. At the end of the setup process the seat was moved a little forward to remove some if the slack. Lesson learned, leave it where it is !!

I do not recall if the TPMS reported high temps but that could have been the case. 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I had forgotten but our ezee TPMS did not sound a heat alarm but since the car was being driven behind instead of towed it might have been out of range.

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

YES..... This is a bit "broad" in perspective.  BUT, to piggy back on the SAFETY ASPECT of a TOWED vehicle.  It is to MOST OF US, imperative to run a TPMS that has sensors on the TOAD.  We have had many instances of failed TOAD brakes (as in this case...I presume) or bad wheel bearings or punctures.

A GOOD TPMS on the toad will alert you when the pressure drop (Leaking air) or SPIKES (Supplemental braking system is malfunctioning, wheel bearing has failed, brakes have LOCKED up, etc.).

SO, add this to the list of why a complete "all wheels down" TPMS and having the alarms set properly and also WATCHING the monitor is an "IMPORTANT SAFETY MATTER"

Yes Tom. I forgot to include in my OP that our Eezee TPMS heat alarm did not go off and I do have sensors on all 4 toad wheels, however because the car was being driven behind and not towed at the time it is likely the sensors were out of range.

[timaz996]

As Steve said a brake fire is heat, you have to cool it with water. I had a trailer brake stick once and started to smoke and when I stopped it started on fire. I used ice water from a six pack cooler to put it out. It got so hot it over pressured to tire enough to blow it right after I put out the fire.

[Ivylog]

I carry 7 fire extinguishers… 2 large foam in the fuel bay, 2 Halon, one of which can spray into the engine compartment from the bedroom plus a fire ball in it. The normal ABC by the door plus a small “Fire Gone” in the kitchen. Also have one of them in every vehicle. The large foam would’ve kept the wheel from reigniting as it cools the fire. Don’t ask how many I have at home.

[96 EVO]

4 hours ago, timaz996 said:

  I used ice water from a six pack cooler to put it out.  

Wow.... must have been serious 😲!

😁

[timaz996]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Wow.... must have been serious 😲!

😁

Yep auto adjuster screwed up. It was a flat bed trailer with my race car on it. Got into a gas station and removed the whole brake assembly and put on the spare. 

[lotosrggp1]

I'm surprised no one mentioned that you should make sure your fire extinguishers are still charged.

[FishAR]

Wife watches my tst tpms for me when I drive the motorhome.  She told me my silverado toad front passenger side tire was getting very hot. Pulled over at Tampa and looked things over, it cooled off, couldn't find anything wrong so we proceeded to our winter location.

That was 3 winters ago. I put new brakes on the truck, still had a brake sticking. New calipers. Still had a brake sticking. Did all this myself. Ended up being the brake line.

My neighbor told me that the inside of the brake line can deteriorate, fluid goes to the brake under pressure and pushes through but can't release and bleed pressure so the brake sticks. Changed the brake line and all was good.

[Frank McElroy]

9 minutes ago, FishAR said:

Wife watches my tst tpms for me when I drive the motorhome.  She told me my silverado toad front passenger side tire was getting very hot. Pulled over at Tampa and looked things over, it cooled off, couldn't find anything wrong so we proceeded to our winter location.

That was 3 winters ago. I put new brakes on the truck, still had a brake sticking. New calipers. Still had a brake sticking. Did all this myself. Ended up being the brake line.

My neighbor told me that the inside of the brake line can deteriorate, fluid goes to the brake under pressure and pushes through but can't release and bleed pressure so the brake sticks. Changed the brake line and all was good.

Many years ago I had a similar situation.  After taking my foot off the brake pedal, the car would pull to the left.  Found the problem to be the flexible brake hose connected to the front left caliper.  In effect the interior hose liner was acting as a check valve.  It happens.

[1nolaguy]

8 hours ago, FishAR said:

Wife watches my tst tpms for me when I drive the motorhome.  She told me my silverado toad front passenger side tire was getting very hot. Pulled over at Tampa and looked things over, it cooled off, couldn't find anything wrong so we proceeded to our winter location.

That was 3 winters ago. I put new brakes on the truck, still had a brake sticking. New calipers. Still had a brake sticking. Did all this myself. Ended up being the brake line.

My neighbor told me that the inside of the brake line can deteriorate, fluid goes to the brake under pressure and pushes through but can't release and bleed pressure so the brake sticks. Changed the brake line and all was good.

Mike this is very interesting. The repairing dealership did say they had to replace the brake lines as well as all the rotors, calipers and pads (all 4). The more I hear the more I am thinking it has to do with the car's braking system rather then the installation of the tow package. This car is only 8 months old (less than 6K miles) and the electronic emergency brake has always been a bit of a concern.

[bobdinsmore]

Thank you very much to everyone for sharing all this important information. As a result, when on the road, I now will have my water hose connected to the water inlet valve in the wet bay, with the water pump turned off.

[Grey Goose]

4 hours ago, bobdinsmore said:

Thank you very much to everyone for sharing all this important information. As a result, when on the road, I now will have my water hose connected to the water inlet valve in the wet bay, with the water pump turned off.

I was thinking the same as I usually have a hose on my wet bay faucet. Another good reason to keep some water in your fresh tank when traveling.

[FishAR]

On 3/31/2024 at 7:34 PM, 1nolaguy said:

Mike this is very interesting. The repairing dealership did say they had to replace the brake lines as well as all the rotors, calipers and pads (all 4). The more I hear the more I am thinking it has to do with the car's braking system rather then the installation of the tow package. This car is only 8 months old (less than 6K miles) and the electronic emergency brake has always been a bit of a concern.

I also have the nsa ready brake system and blaming it was the first thing that came to mind. But I checked the cables and everything was good. Also since it was only one wheel I decided it wasn't the nsa doing it.

I washed the truck yesterday and the wheel cover is still tarnished from all that hot brake dust.

[Chargerman]

I installed a switch on my toad brake pedal wired to a light on my coach dash so I know when the toads brakes are activated by the NSA system. Gives good piece of mind to know the status  

[1nolaguy]

Can you PM me the details on this installation?