Donflem Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 The generator is not under any real load it’s cold here in Nevada so I’m only using the aqua hot. I’m really just using the generator to keep the batteries up. The brushes I replaced about 7 months ago. Tom I’m curious what board is known for failing? Should I be caring a spare? I’m going to bed will try and figure it out tomorrow. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 1 Share Posted April 1 3 hours ago, Donflem said: The generator is not under any real load it’s cold here in Nevada so I’m only using the aqua hot. I’m really just using the generator to keep the batteries up. The brushes I replaced about 7 months ago. Tom I’m curious what board is known for failing? Should I be caring a spare? I’m going to bed will try and figure it out tomorrow. Don The main PCB or the “control board”. Flight Services is often mentioned or used as a “tech support” source. I have read a lot of their info. The “failure” rate on the boards is unknown. However, for whatever reason, the 10 & 12.5 models (220 VAC) have a much higher….maybe an order of magnitude, higher failure rate than the 7.5/8.0 (120 VAC) units. That “summary” goes back some 15 years of reading, helping, and a couple of “gee….why will it not run” “encounters” with the 10 Kw units. It is NOT prevalent enough that I would buy one..but I would focus on a Board failure as a potential issue after all the common things like filters and such were eliminated. Did some “curiosity” googling for onan 10 kw error code 13. LOTS of hits…. Most are immediate issues….like it will run briefly. Many of the hits “appear” to be for the smaller units….so, “iffy”. Grab Bag and my “thoughts” MAKE SURE you have disabled the AGS on the Magnum remote. You COULD actually pull the Network cable phone line. If you have the OEM 4 knob AGS, they had a high failure rate. Some folks didn’t even “know” how their AGS worked…..disconnect it. The load on the Genny for charging will be fairly low….or should be. Assume you have an Aladdin….use the Volts and Amps screen and start monitoring. The bulk charge of 100 Amps equates to maybe 10 AC amps (100 A X 14 VDC) or 1,400 Watts divided by 115 = 12 Amps….you have 50 Amps per line…. This ain’t loading it up. The issue or a 13 code is that the “voltage sensing” transformer is “seeing” less than maybe 108 VAC. Then the main board gets a signal and shuts down. Folks have reset (turned on and off) the main genny breaker…. SO…why does it run for a period of time and shut down….?? Eliminate variables Disable AGS Monitor Aladdin. You MIGHT actually need to seat or clean or “load up” the genny….and see if it is a brush issue. Run the HP’s. You want to get 50% load or 25 amps per line….that load actually cleans the brushes. A common issue. So….RUN that sucker with at least a 25 A load and see if the problem goes away…..but, if you use the Aladdin, watch the Volts and Amps and see if you get a gradual decline…..based on what I read….it should be 115 VAC once it warms up. NOW….one experiment…. Turn OFF the charger. TYPICALLY, if your batteries are down….you may have to let the genny run without a load….turn OFF the breaker….let the genny run for 5 minutes. With the inverter charger OFF….then turn on the breaker. What is the V & A? Then bring on the charger. If you have a good steady 115 VAC on each line (or use a VOM) and check the voltage on the legs of the main 50 Amp breaker. Then, use the microwave and HP and AquaHot electric to load it up. See what the V & A’s are? OK….all this is easy….so, next step….you replaced brushes. Make sure they were or are seated…. THEN….the real troubleshooting starts. IF, the voltage sensing transformer gets hot….and eventually starts to fail….you should see a drop in the Aladdin. There was one thread that had the color codes for the output….. If the Transformer is OK….then the most likely issue….IS the board….but the brushes being OK and clean and seated is a common mechanical issue….next is a failed transformer…..and then a bad board. BUT….there is always the issue of a failed “generator”…..and such. Flight Services would be the most realistic “self help”….otherwise…a Cummins care shop…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donflem Posted April 1 Author Share Posted April 1 Ok so I’ve checked filters all good now it’s giving me a 14 code . I shut off the and unplug the AGS shut off the main breaker but it won’t stay running to check anything with VOM . I removed the main board you guys are right crazy money over thousands bucks so I am going to try and get a number for flight service and see if I can get one for less. Does anyone have a number for flight services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donflem Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 Is this the board I should be looking at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradHend Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 The one you found on Amazon is not compatible. This one is however: https://www.flightsystems.com/56-5961-00 Check your brushes and slip rings too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 1 hour ago, Donflem said: Is this the board I should be looking at? MAYBE….but if you google Flight Services ONAN ….you will get the right company. Was wrong on “Services” …it is Systems. https://www.flightsystems.com/onan-replacements.html OK….NOW, if I understand correctly…..the ERROR code has CHANGED. First off….there is NO AGS Breaker on the main panel. Your AGS (see manual) is an dedicated electronic module that is 12 VDC powered. It is a standalone and there will be a “connection” to the inverter. You have a Magum Inverter. The “Network” phone line is the link to,the 4 button AGS. You should read a bit more in Sections 8 & 9. OK…from the top….you may be fixing to purchase a part that “ain’t broke”. My rationale…. You had an “under voltage” error code. That meant that the regukator or the “Generator” GUTS….was putting, after a period of time, a reduced voltage. Did you monitor the voltage as suggested? That is critical to “KNOW”. OK….have no idea what, if anything, you did…but NOW you have another code. You MAY actually have two codes. From what I read…..the board is not as smart as your engine ECM. But, it gives you the “latest” or last code. The 13 may still be an issue….but NOW….assuming your code is right….you have a 14. That is an OVER FREQUENCY code. In other words….the genny is running TOO fast….so you have maybe 66 Hertz (in the old days…66 CYCLE votage”. OPPS….that can wreak havocv.v…if you had an old fashined eletric clock….then time is “flying”….as in the power is NOT TO SPEC. SO….if I read and understood…..there are (were) TWO power related codes. That means that the “Regulation” control(s) are MESSED UP….or they are OK, but the “generator” is defextive…..could be new components or a rebuild? Could be a complete, refurbished one is needed? Could be the “Regulator” system. I know the AC Voltage transformer is a stand alone. I do NOT know if the “Regulator” is a stand alone…or is on the board. BUT….until you know exactly what components are bad, purchasing a new/rebuilt board may NOT FIX IT….as the problem could be “in the physical” generstor. You did major maintenance on the “generator”….maybe wrong brushes or something simple. Based on the input and posts….my call.. You don’t have enough information as two WHAT or WHERE the problem is. IF Flight Systems can assist and they say BOARD….order…..but my gut says something mechanical or electric is wrong with the “genset”….but until you get more tech support….$$$ may not help. It MAY BE time to have a Onan certified shop or tech take oner. You really don’t need a spare board…..if your’s ain't broke…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad A Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 I just did this “fix” by wiring the fuel pump to a switch in the dash. I manually turn the fuel pump on and then start the generator. Runs like a top. No ags with this though. But for how rarely I used it, worth the saving of $800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donflem Posted April 2 Author Share Posted April 2 So flight services called me this morning and gave me some trouble shooting help. I did some tolerances checking across pins everything was ok. Tom the brushes are over a year old so pretty sure they are ok. The technician I spoke with gave me the option of sending me a new board to plug in to see if that is the problem she seems to think it is if not just send it back so I went that route if not to the shop it goes. I guess Reno is not the worst place to break down 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️. Thank God it didn’t happen in the middle of the summer. I let you know as soon as I know. I had it overnighted. I can’t thank you all enough for your support. I guess you know your getting older when you go to bed looking forward to hearing from a group of men lol. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 2 hours ago, Chad A said: I just did this “fix” by wiring the fuel pump to a switch in the dash. I manually turn the fuel pump on and then start the generator. Runs like a top. No ags with this though. But for how rarely I used it, worth the saving of $800 My coach came with AGS, but, other than testing to make sure I had the settings correct, and it would work if called apon, I've never used it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 2 hours ago, 96 EVO said: My coach came with AGS, but, other than testing to make sure I had the settings correct, and it would work if called apon, I've never used it! Ben, if you have the 4 button OEM Magnum AGS….odds are…it be BROKE. Mine died or quit working within a year or so. I had only used it once. The Magnum remote on your rig takes over…..you do not need to do the manual settings. It has been a while ago….but the Magnum tech spent over an hour on the phone with me. He had me use a “paper clip” jumper on the harness that attaches to the AGS. I had to do some VOM and continuity measurements. Ours is a Negative Start system. The Onan’s can be “configured (wired if you prefer) for either Positive or Negative Start. Once we determined that….and he was about 98% SURE that Monaco ordered their Onan’s with Negative Start….the rest was easy. I jumpered the pins he said…..SO…genny started from the harness where the AGS was plugged in. I then “shut it down”….jumpering. OK…no issues with Monaco wiring from the AGS to the Onan. He had me “test” the AGS from both the Remote and the test button on the AGS. NADA. He then “confessed” that the 4 knob unit was a little “weak” as in the relays used and the schematic and PCB were a high failure rate. At one time, Magnum would “repair” for free….had so many….they started to charge….but the reliability of the repairs was flaky. Bottom Line….replace the old unit with the compatible AGS - N or Network. Piece of cake…..extended warranty handled. It has been perfect since then….got the new one circa early 2012 and we used it extensively for the ABQ Ballon trip and some limited boondocking. ODDS ARE….even new, the AGS could have been bad….or just failed. If you don’t need it…..great….live without it. But if you want to troubleshoot….Magnum will assist. Then get the new one. 2 screws and plugging in the old phone cable and the 6 or so pin connector. 5 minutes MAX. This post was as much for you as others who might not know the history of the old 4 button AGS. NOW…many members have them and no issues….just making folks aware of a known problem with a simple fix and Magnum will walk you through the troubleshooting….so NOT one of these…”Maybe…or shot in the dark or throw $$ at it FIXES”…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 3 hours ago, Donflem said: So flight services called me this morning and gave me some trouble shooting help. I did some tolerances checking across pins everything was ok. Tom the brushes are over a year old so pretty sure they are ok. The technician I spoke with gave me the option of sending me a new board to plug in to see if that is the problem she seems to think it is if not just send it back so I went that route if not to the shop it goes. I guess Reno is not the worst place to break down 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️. Thank God it didn’t happen in the middle of the summer. I let you know as soon as I know. I had it overnighted. I can’t thank you all enough for your support. I guess you know your getting older when you go to bed looking forward to hearing from a group of men lol. Don ABSOLUTELY PHENOMENAL…. NOW you have info and not guessing or throwing $$ and replacing something that may not be broke. This has been the intent of my posts. I had suspected either a board or a “genset” issue. Cummins would fixed it….and properly diagnosed it…lbut you would not be getting a “high value” repair. BUT, if there are internal issues in the Genset….better to let Cummins fix than some “well i think….” tech. Many of the mobile techs understand and they carry boards to test….Flight and OEM. But many are NOT that well versed and you may or may not get a solution. MY intent…..get specific trouble shooting assistance….before you say….what the heck….MAYBE this is it. Keep us posted. NOW..if there is a link to a Flight page or you wrote down or remeber the exact steps that the tech had you do….please post that. Thatbis a valuable resource for others. Let us know how it works. I helped a buddy that had sold his rig….he had the same 10K unit. He was also a top rated Ex Navy electronics tech and worked for a well known Defense Contractor and was their “why did it fail” guy….the Military does not like torpedoes or missiles or such at “breakdown” and there is an extensive trouble shooting and evaluation procedure ….so, him being in that department speaks to his knowledge. He had agreed to be the “after the sale” tech support guy for the rig and I helped him as we had the same rig…except he had the 10K. The genny would not start after a month or so. My friend had used the Genny at least monthly as he followed the Indy circuit and often boondocked….so it was tested and reliable. We were on the phone with the mobile tech that the new owner had called….and we BOTH got a lesson on the higher than normal board failures of the 10K vs the 8K…AND the tech knew his stuff…and carried OEM and Flight boards…he had ONE OEM and two Flights….and most of the time….installed the refurbished…. SO….you are on the right path. I’ve been stranded in the Reno and Tahoe area….could be worse…..drive over to Tahoe. Traffic not bad….we pigged out at a little ice cream shop….your GK will love it…. Keep us posted…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said: Ben, if you have the 4 button OEM Magnum AGS….odds are…it be BROKE. Mine died or quit working within a year or so. I had only used it once. The Magnum remote on your rig takes over…..you do not need to do the manual settings. Worked when I tried it. Yes I used the Magnum remote to set, and arm it. Sometime this year, I'll try it again. After 10.5yrs of not needing it, I'm not that worried about it. Edited April 3 by 96 EVO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 12 minutes ago, 96 EVO said: Worked when I tried it. Sometime this year, I'll try it again. After 10.5yrs of not needing it, I'm not that worried about it. If it is intermittent…..then there are PROBABLY some issues with the relays on the board. The old unit had 2 relays and they were overworked….per Magnum. If it is flaky now and the “remote” will not “test and turn it on”….reliably….as well as the TEST button on the AGS….odds are…it be broke. Use it…but don’t depend on it. LOTS of folks with pets use it and it is a necessity to work. But….your call. I think it is broken…..and I would not rely on it. I ran the Genny manually until I got the new one. Don’t know your needs…..manual works…. BUT if you are traveling or sight seeing or are away from the MH during the day or evening….and need reliability to keep your house from being rundown TOO FAR….replace it. Otherwise, if it is flaky…I’d disconnect the phone cable that says NETWORK….and not depend on a known flaky intermittent device…. when we were at the Ballon feat, we needed reliably. When we were away from the MH in NP’s and needed to run the Genny, I bypassed it. I bought the $20 Magnum remote harness. I installed a 24/7 timer and set it to run at two predetermined times. The Remote allows that and you select the “remote option” rather than AGS. You program the Magnum remote for a set time to run the Genny….say 2.5 hours. So, when the timer said run or closed the contacts…the genny started….the timer on signal timed out after 15 minutes….but the Magnum remote ran and stopped the Genny for 2 1/2 hours. We left early…and it was still quiet time. Then when the quiet time ended….the timer called for the start… Same thing in the PM. The timer called for the Genny to start 2 1/2 hours PRIOR to the beginning of quiet time. Worked like a champ. After that adventure….I pugged the AGS back in….and used it as normally… Now you know…as do others…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelvin Peters Posted April 3 Share Posted April 3 I had to replace my thermostat when I had the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donflem Posted April 4 Author Share Posted April 4 I tried the new board got rid of the code 13-14 now I have a code 32. I have an appointment for Monday morning with Cummins here in Reno let the experts figure it out. I’ll keep you posted. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 4 minutes ago, Donflem said: I tried the new board got rid of the code 13-14 now I have a code 32. I have an appointment for Monday morning with Cummins here in Reno let the experts figure it out. I’ll keep you posted. Don I would NOT be to quick to send back the refurbished board from Flight. After they run all their tests and such....they might fix something that causes the board to read or not work. My advice would be.. I have a new or refurbished board...that I can return. IF you find that is the issue, then please install this one and let me have the old one as it will be used as "CORE". Just my belt and suspenders take on it. HMMMMM....Not it is really getting DEEP.... Here is what the ERROR CODE 32 is supposed to be.... Have you TRIED cranking the Genny with the Engine running. That will supply, via the Big Boy, max voltage. I cranked mine yesterday as I needed to pick up some stuff for a personal trip. The Voltage, from the Magnum as well as the Engine was 14.2 VDC. Surprised me....but I DO have the Big Boy "Bypassed" as I bolted a jumper between the banks....and killed the control voltage. SO, both were pumping. The Magnum was showing Absorb and around 14.2 VDC. Just a thought....might see what, if ANY error code you get.... THAT would be good info for the tech. The MORE specific info the better. FINALLY... I often type up a "Bullet" or Outline of the issue. State the problem....you have done that here. THEN start back when you did the first service. Be specific about what parts you replaced and also what PM (oil, coolant, brushes, belt, etc). Then "It was FINE" for X months. If you remember the hour meter reading...that would be good. SO...how long did it work? THEN summarize or go over the "GEE I TRIED THIS". Be specific on the error code CHANGE from 13 - 14. Finally, tried a replacement board.....and the error code changed to 32. Also that you had the engine running and your Big Boy was working (OR JUMPER the House and Chassis....then crank the engine.. Then Crank the Genny. Watch the Voltage or have someone crank it and you measure it at the rear terminals. You DO....have the MONACO GOOFED cabling for the Genny. The cabling from the Chassis to the stud up front is great. BUT, for whatever reason, Monaco got cheap or MISINFORMED on the cables to the Genny. They used #2 Gauge Cables.... we have many folks that have had cranking issues... NEXT UP....if the engine starts FINE....then you have good batteries. IF there is a high resistance connection between the cables from the Front to the Genny....then you can easily test this. Put a Set of Jumpers on the Stud (Chassis) up front. Then run the positive to the Positive stud on the Genny. Find a GOOD ground....like a Ground Stud....run the Negative cable back to the Genny Negative Stud from there. THEN....crank that puppy and see WHAT if anything happens. IF the Cummins tech says a Voltage issue.... Then tell him to recable the #2 Cables from the Front to the Genny....that will be from the Chassis Stud and the Ground stud. USE 2/0 (00) cable. That will give you over 50% more Amp Capacity (ampacity)... The Genny will start quicker. THIS IS a known issue, but misdiagnosed....and this is the fix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Dog House Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 I also have a 10Kw Onan with slow cranking issues, I have cleaned the large pos/neg cables on back of generator with no change. Where does the red (positive) cable end at? Mine is bundled in an enclosed loom, it it back at the Run box? Also my AGS is a 5 knob version, it that the newer version? I hope I am not too out of line jumping into this discussion, I have searched the forum prior and been unable to find anything on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 47 minutes ago, Dads Dog House said: I also have a 10Kw Onan with slow cranking issues, I have cleaned the large pos/neg cables on back of generator with no change. Where does the red (positive) cable end at? Mine is bundled in an enclosed loom, it it back at the Run box? Also my AGS is a 5 knob version, it that the newer version? I hope I am not too out of line jumping into this discussion, I have searched the forum prior and been unable to find anything on this issue. The 4 or 5 knob was either a “manual” or was an “automatic” controlled by the remote on newer units. The current AGS is called a -N and has no controls on it. Was meant to be used only in a remote….circa 2009 or so. If the TEST button on the AGS works, then you are probably OK. Magnum tech said it was a common failure. I know folks with 2008 that have used AGS often….no issues. I would probably test the AGS, using the remote and the “temp” setting. Leave one AC on in COOL. Does not need to be running. Set the AGS to say 65 dF. Then let it come on. Next….use the test mode on the Remote. Finally, the TEST button on the AGS. All work…..good to go….but just test and use once a quarter… I don’t have access to your prints as all my downloads are on laptop at home. I THOUGHT that 2006 had the main 4/0 (0000) cable from Chassis running to a front “stud” in the FRB. From that stud, there is a #2 AWG (NOT a 2/0 or 00) running to the genny studs. Same for the Negative. Pull the High Current Print….that has the batteries and the cabling…..including the cabling to the front stud and FRB as well as the cabling to the Genny. It is easy to see on the print. As I tell members….the “temporary” test or fix is to run a Jumper cable from Genny Positive to the 4/0 stud…..as well as a cable from the Negative to a ground stud on the chassis. That usually convinces folks… NOW….some PM. Look behind or chase the Grounds from each bank to the ground stud (welded onto frame). Pull each set of cables and clean the cable ends and stud….reattach. Spray with Battery Post terminal protectant. Now….go up front. Probably 2 ground studs up there. One for Dash and other for Genny and such. Remove cables and clean and spray every ground stud connector….that MIGHT fix the slow crank….but the real fix. Just replace the cables with 2/0 that are attached to the genny…both Positive and Negative. Most welding shop supply distributors can make up new cables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donflem Posted April 6 Author Share Posted April 6 NSooooo…. Went out yesterday to remove the new board so I could put genny back together to drive to shop Monday morning. I plugged the old board back in wiggle a few wires taped on the Leeds to the brushes thought what the heck gave it one more try and sob started right up. The flight tech thinks it’s the windings are brushing trouble so I’m going to take Tom’s advice take it in and let Cummins look at it. I don’t need any I think it’s fixed problems. Tom you’re right I will hang onto the new board for a while. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dads Dog House Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Tom I really appreciate your replying to my 2 questions. As soon as it quits snowing outside here I will crawl under the coach and trace the genny pos. cable or Ohm out the FRB cable. My AGMS has a recessed red test button I presume it will start the generator if pressed, the owner manual has no mention of how to test the AGS, it does have a green ready LED that is lighted on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donflem Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 I’m at the Cummins dealer in Reno it looks like I need a new set of slip rings and brush blocks. Stator/rotor they have to order the parts and want $5500 to do it. I’m going to try and find the parts get it done back home they said I can still run it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 How many hours on the gen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 13 minutes ago, Donflem said: I’m at the Cummins dealer in Reno it looks like I need a new set of slip rings and brush blocks. Stator/rotor they have to order the parts and want $5500 to do it. I’m going to try and find the parts get it done back home they said I can still run it. That sounds like a shotgun repair, why would you need rotor/stator to replace the slip rings, makes no sense if it runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradHend Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) Get a stone and clean the commutator best you can. Get new brushes, seat them and put it back together, load test it. Call it good. Check brush wear pattern after. That one brush is pretty worn out for being replaced all at the same time. Might be worth throwing an amp meter on each of the mains during a normal day and see if you can balance the system out a bit by moving breakers around. That is if they were replaced in sets though. Edited April 8 by BradHend 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donflem Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 They said 13 hours to fix $2000 in parts. Ivan are you saying that I can just replace the slip rings$ 4500 hours on genny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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