Ugly Fix ,,,,,, Again

[Venturer]

After re-reading most of the previous UF posts, questions remain. Some claim that with the EGR valve closed below 7,000', the EGT can rise to a danger temp on a long pull at near maximum power. Others say that without the hot exhaust gas blending in with the intake fresh air, the engine will run cooler. Some have run the UF for several thousand miles with no ill effects. Yet some have issues with it and have removed it. I've been running one for 3,000 miles with no "known" bad effects. I've let the transmission choose the gear 90% of the time. This summer, we will be in the mountains to about 8500' and next fall up to 11,000'. Out of caution, I am tempted to install a pyrometer to monitor the EGT, but that's no easy task. So, my question is directed to the ISM owners who have experience with the UF and any adverse effects. What have you done to ensure the engine integrity? Has anyone measured EGT before and after the UF? Thanks for your comments.     

[Dr4Film]

A good EGT Gauge is always a useful tool. Never hurts to install one. Although, like you said it is no easy task.

[timaz996]

If you end up getting a leak in your charger cooler or charge side of the intake and lose boost without an EGT gauge or pyrometer as some people call it, you can quickly get into a very, very hot exhaust temperature zone and not know it. The only indication you would get is you’re not making as much boost as you usually did. 

[Ivylog]

I’ve been using the UF for 40K miles on my ISX 525 and it turns on the check engine light in a couple of minutes. No exhaust gas temperature and on a long pull I’ll manually downshift to keep the rpms above 1700.  Other than that I don’t worry about it.

[Venturer]

1 hour ago, Ivylog said:

I’ve been using the UF for 40K miles on my ISX 525 and it turns on the check engine light in a couple of minutes. No exhaust gas temperature and on a long pull I’ll manually downshift to keep the rpms above 1700.  Other than that I don’t worry about it.

That's what I was hoping to hear. Although you have the ISX, my ISM should react the same. Logic tells me that allowing hot exhaust gases back into the intake would cause the engine to run hotter. Others say that with all fresh air the combustion is more complete generating more heat. I guess I'll keep running it the way I always have keeping the rpms near 1800 on the long uphill pulls and not worry about it. My previous 450 ISL would run up to 210 degrees on the long uphill and then cool down to 190 before climbing back to 210 where the fan would kick into high. This ISM gradually moves between 185 and 199 depending on load. Have never seen 200. 

[Ivylog]

Doubt it makes any difference ISM-ISX. I’m in the hotter EGT camp because of the more complete combustion as the EGR is cooled. My ISL would get well above 200 on a long pull but never even to 200 with the heavier ISX. I use the UF to hopefully stop acid from weakening my intake valves.

[Brad Loehr]

You have all the data you can ever want available right in that nice little diagnostic port by your knee.  One of the best ways to know exactly what is going on is to get a Nexiq J1939 adapter in either cabled USB link or wireless with bluetooth for your PC or mobile phone.

https://www.nexiq.com/Catalog

Then get Cummins inSite or J-Pro and you will be able to see any parameters or troubleshoot like a dealer technician. I have the cabled USB-link with Caterpillar ET, J-Pro, Cummins Insite, Bendix, Allison software for my PC and it works great.

I have a guy that gets me any software for my laptop (I am a licensed heavy duty technician) for $250 each.  He can remote install and is available at all times.  Message me of you want his contact number.

Another good source for information is:

https://www.diesellaptops.com/

 

[Venturer]

On 5/19/2024 at 3:29 PM, Brad Loehr said:

 

Thank you for the info. However, it's a little more than I want to get into. I just wanted to tap into the experience of others with the ISM 500 who have eliminated the EGR valve with the Ugly Fix. It sounds like I will be ok just the way I have always run a DP, by keeping the rpms near 1800 when on long inclines. 

[Brad Loehr]

If you guys are looking for an easy way to monitor EGTs and other parameters you should check this out on Amazon.  Not bad for $211 CDN.  It plugs right in your diagnostic port.

ScanGauge SGDFFP J1939 & J1708 Vehicle Monitor 

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00VX2NP4W/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&psc=1

[Dr4Film]

How does it monitor EGT's without installing an EGT sensor into the exhaust manifold?

Just wondering....

[Brad Loehr]

I havent checked on mine but I would think there would be an exhaust temp sensor from factory on my 8.9 ISL Cummins. 

[Venturer]

It would sure be a simple way to monitor the EGT if it was accurate. I've read that there are sensors built in to reduce power if the EGT got too high but, not sure if it's true. 

Edited June 1, 2024 by Venturer

[Ivylog]

My Silverleaf will display 40+ items BUT EGT isn’t one of them.

[Venturer]

On 6/1/2024 at 5:23 PM, Dr4Film said:

How does it monitor EGT's without installing an EGT sensor into the exhaust manifold?

Just wondering....

I spoke to my neighbor who is a certified Cummins Mechanic regarding sensors in the exhaust system and could that info be displayed. His answer was yes. It could be picked up from the OBD2 port. Then I asked the question online and got this answer:

The truck itself monitors the EGT's, they just don't display them. You can get one of the gauge sets that plug into your OBD2 port and monitor the factory EGT's if you want.

That tends to support the ScanGauge SGDFFP J1939 & J1708 Vehicle Monitor claim. If that is the case, one could see the same info the ECM sees and avoid too high EGTs. I wonder if anyone on this forum has experience with this Scangauge??

[Ivan K]

Newer Cummins diesels have  multiple EGT probes, definitely the ones with DPF. My truck does too and has obd2 port unlike the big rig. It must be what the scangauge would read. There is nothing factory installed to monitor EGT on my ISM anywhere.

[Dr4Film]

@Ivan K

Thanks, now that makes sense. I can see where it would be needed on the newer engines with all of the added junk they have done to them to meet environmental mandates.

None on my ISL400-2 engine. I had a Banks Power Pack installed on my previous Windsor and added the set of Banks gauges that came with the package, an EGT and Boost.

[Venturer]

I will take a look at my 2006 engine tomorrow. I suspect that with the EGR valve, it must have sensors. It's just a guess on my part but, I wonder if the sensors have the ability to tell the ECM to cut back on the fuel if the temps get too high?  If the Scangauge can provide all the info that the Valid system does plus the EGT, at $160, it's a pretty good tool to have.

Edited June 3, 2024 by Venturer

[96 EVO]

The Scangauge D doesn't come pre-programmed to read exhaust temperature, but, if you email them some numbers from your ECM, they can tell you how to get other available functions, possibly EGT.

I was planning on doing that myself, for that very purpose, but, never got around to it.

Edited June 3, 2024 by 96 EVO

[Ivan K]

10 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

The Scangauge D doesn't come pre-programmed to read exhaust temperature, but, if you email them some numbers from your ECM, they can tell you how to get other available functions, possibly EGT.

I was planning on doing that myself, for that very purpose, but, never got around to it.

Yes, it takes some effort to write down all the unassigned PIDs but they did send me back some that could be useful eventhough I only added EOT for engine oil temp that was missing from default gauges. No EGT, as would not be expected for my engine config.

[Venturer]

It's my understanding that the EGT sensor probe for the ECM on the 06 ISM engine is in the exhaust manifold. I believe the hottest EGT's are just before the turbo. I would like to get the Scan Gauge mentioned above however, if the existing probe is not at the hottest location, what would the differential be? The EGR valve is normally closed under full power but will reopen at about 1375 EGT to cool the exhaust and prevent damage. My EGR will remain closed so running at 1800+ rpm on long inclines will probably prevent high EGTs but I would still want to know what they are.  

Edited June 6, 2024 by Venturer

[Venturer]

FWIW, I contacted ScanGauge and was informed that it's a hit and miss as to whether or not their unit can capture the EGT info and display it. I wouldn't know until after I bought it and plugged it into the coach. Then go through a process to attempt to access the EGT gauge. When questioned about it, they confirmed they could not get it to work on a 2004 Executive with the ISM engine. As far as I know, the 04 and 06 ECMs are the same, so I'm out of luck for the easy solution. Bummer!  

[Dr4Film]

Install the Banks Pyro Meter and Gauge with the extended harness.

You won't be disappointed.

https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/p-banks-pyrometer-gauge-with-thermocouple-and-wire-harness?variant_id=58479&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw34qzBhBmEiwAOUQcF5VyUK5WmNhj_q-QwNugTtr6BVTNmQB-WU3pc4iwCP_fbHm13jqFLxoC4o0QAvD_BwE