PAC Brake and Brake Lights?

[tmw188]

2002 Windsor, does anyone know with certainty if the brake lights come on when the PacBrake is activated? 

[Dr4Film]

Todd, mine does on my previous 02 Windsor. However, I am sure you realize by now that doesn't mean that EVERY 02 Windsor was wired the same. The only way to be sure is to have someone follow you to observe whether they do or not.

[timaz996]

If your coach is wired correctly, they should come on with the pack brake.

[Jim McGarvie]

Ours do not, and I like it that way. I don't want following drivers to think I am dragging my brakes all the way down a grade. 🙂 

 

[tmw188]

2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Todd, mine does on my previous 02 Windsor. However, I am sure you realize by now that doesn't mean that EVERY 02 Windsor was wired the same. The only way to be sure is to have someone follow you to observe whether they do or not.

Yep, I’m going to do that tomorrow, and he is going to sit in the car to monitor if the brake is being applied on the car when and if the brake lights come on.                                   My current braking system in the car is not tied into the air on the coach so this is why I want to see if the deceleration is bringing on the brake. Not part of this thread so I thought I would just clarify it here with this edit. 

Edited May 18 by tmw188

[Dr4Film]

You have added more information to your original question.

The braking for your towed car should have nothing to do with whether the coaches brake lights come on when the exhaust brake is active. When I was towing my car with the Windsor, the lights on the car would mimic whatever the coaches lights were doing.

I use the RVIBrake-3 towed braking system. It doesn't always apply the cars brakes every time I use the coaches brakes. It really depends on how hard I am braking the coach.

What braking system are you using for the car?

[Tom Cherry]

Simple…as Richard says….Monaco was not naturally consistent.  Get a helper to follow you, preferably on a small grade, and experiment.  Cell phones on speaker.

The BRAKE LIGHTS are only supposed to come on when the service brake is depressed.  NOW….also look for how the CYCLOPS or middle brake (the DOT engineers nicknamed it the LIDDY LIGHT…she added it to the FMVSS regs by Executive Order….absolutely NO studies or testing…..she just thought it would save lives and accidents….Liddy Dole was Transportation Secretary…. She was the wife of Senator Bob Dole, so she had connections….

OK…then apply the PAC Brake.  I have NO IDEA how it will work.

BUT…as Richard states….the BRAKE LIGHTS on the Monaco use the service brake pedal.  That same signal MUST BE USED for any trailer or any TOAD BRAKING SYSTEM that turns on the Toad’s rear lights. THERE is NO (OK…NEVER SAY NEVER) any hookup for the Cyclops.

Does your manual address this…

OK….an hour later.  IT DEPENDS!  And we may have some real experts or wiring diagram fanatics (YES…I know one).

PER a lot of blogs and also my knowledge of FMVSS….here goes…

THERE AIN’T NO FMVSS standard.  Pick a manufacturer….their design engineers decided the logic.  Freightliner did or had a TSB for reprogramming the system and that impacted the ECM….and it was NOT a pretty solution.

BASICALLY….here is the main thing….and IT IS A MUST….if you use a trailer or a Toad Braking system or WIRE up a TOAD. TEST YOUR 7 or 6 pin…the LOGIC….and really simple.

A trailer has, usually, electric brakes.  In 2005….Monaco prewired every MODEL with a harness to properly utilize a Trailer Brake Controller or a Toad SUPPLEMENTAL (controlled from the MH Service Brake). There is a unterminated wire from front to rear that is supposed to carry the Trailer control voltage….

That system comes from a NEGATIVE GROUND SWITCHED signal…so when you pop the brakes (pedal) a NEGATIVE ground wire activates the brake lights.  That signal must be “repolarizied” or converted to POSITIVE.  WHY….99.99999% of the pickups and cars that have a trailer brake controller depends on a POSITIVE 12 VDC signal or the BRAKE LIGHT SWITCH. 

Richard, I know, was one of the successful “fixers” prior to the factory solutuon, 

OK…when you hit your brakes…the rear tail lights come on.  Your 7/6 receptacle has 4 critical wires.

GROUND

PARK (Marker or Clearance)

LEFT STOP/Turn

RIGHT STOP/Turn.

There ain’t NO LIDDY light.

SO, your turn signals work and the STOP or Brake works… NOW. That is simple but read on.

Those FOUR wires are what you use for a Trailer or in the umbilical (BTW….if you want to keep your modern Car electronics happy….you have three DIODES. One for Park, Left and Right.  Otherwise….have a credit card on file with local dealer where you bought it and have it serviced).

NOW….if the PAC/EXHAUST/JAKE engine brake signals the TAIL LIGHTS and or maybe the LIDDY….then that is EXACTLY how Monaco wired your MH.  There are also sorts (42 pages and 200 comments) about one Monaco working one way…in the same MODEL year…or say a Diplomat one way and an Executive the other….then, NEXT YEAR….both were the same or reversed….

SO….run your test.  Service Brake MUST turn on the Taillights.  ODDS ARE…Cyclops comes on…. Now take your foot off….on. Grade, use the PAC or equivalent.  If Taillights come on…thats OK….or if only the Liddy or BOTH…then, that is HOW your rig works…

Then start playing around.  Use pedal…then PAC…and let off on pedal?  What happened or changed….write it down.

There are SOME MH (Monaco?.?  Who knows)…that use a speed sensitive signal from the ECM and below a certain speed the PAC might NOT trigger.

ONE topic kept arguing that when manually downshifted the Allison….the whole shebang lit up like a Christmas tree.

OTHERS can run a similar test and POST….specifying the year, model and results. SOME have tried to customize to suit their logic.

As long as your tail lights come on with service brake…presumably also illuminating the Cyclops and the flashers and turn signal and parking work….you meet the generic FMVSS Standard or Reg.

let us know how yours is wired….but there appears not to be a cast in cincrete standsrd for PAC or such.  Elkhart was notorious for wiring mods as their folks were smarter than the design “clowns” in Oregon.

SNOWFLAKE properly fits this topic.

[tmw188]

Thanks for catching that Richard it should have read when the PAC Brake is on. I had two different questions I’m trying to get answers to, but really didn’t want them blended together. 
1) When the PacBrake is engaged, does the brake lights come on, I was told some do, some don’t and maybe. So I’m going to call it answered. 
The other question I needed an answer to was specific to my current braking system and was not intended to be answered on this thread, but inquiring minds want to know now. I have a Demco Stay N Play Duo sister to the Air Force One. My previous mh was a gasser and that’s what it was designed for but not designed for air brake systems especially coaches with exhaust brakes or Jake brakes because it works with a decelerometer which could be activated by an exhaust brake and burn up the brakes while decending a grade. I’ll  have my passenger confirm that. I was told originally by Etrailer that it would work on the air brake coach when I bought the Windsor some 3yrs ago.  I called Etrailer today with a trouble shooting question on something else since they installed it some 5 yrs ago. During the conversation the topic of the exhaust brake came up and that’s where we are now. I’ll know more hopefully tomorrow. I’ll probably need to switch the braking system. So that’s it. 

 

[tmw188]

3 hours ago, Jim McGarvie said:

Ours do not, and I like it that way. I don't want following drivers to think I am dragging my brakes all the way down a grade. 🙂 

 

I’m with you on that. 

[96 EVO]

3 hours ago, Jim McGarvie said:

Ours do not, and I like it that way. I don't want following drivers to think I am dragging my brakes all the way down a grade. 🙂 

 

I really don't care what following drivers 'think', as long as they don't run into the back of me!

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

I don’t care what they think when I’m going down a long steep grade either. I do want them to know when I'm using the PAC brake when coming to a stop. When I’m using the PAC brake, I am braking. Seem like those following ought to be aware of that. 

Edited May 19 by dennis.mcdonaugh

[Tom Cherry]

12 hours ago, tmw188 said:

Thanks for catching that Richard it should have read when the PAC Brake is on. I had two different questions I’m trying to get answers to, but really didn’t want them blended together. 
1) When the PacBrake is engaged, does the brake lights come on, I was told some do, some don’t and maybe. So I’m going to call it answered. 
The other question I needed an answer to was specific to my current braking system and was not intended to be answered on this thread, but inquiring minds want to know now. I have a Demco Stay N Play Duo sister to the Air Force One. My previous mh was a gasser and that’s what it was designed for but not designed for air brake systems especially coaches with exhaust brakes or Jake brakes because it works with a decelerometer which could be activated by an exhaust brake and burn up the brakes while decending a grade. I’ll  have my passenger confirm that. I was told originally by Etrailer that it would work on the air brake coach when I bought the Windsor some 3yrs ago.  I called Etrailer today with a trouble shooting question on something else since they installed it some 5 yrs ago. During the conversation the topic of the exhaust brake came up and that’s where we are now. I’ll know more hopefully tomorrow. I’ll probably need to switch the braking system. So that’s it. 

 

Don’t know about the Demco.  Brake Buddy made a similar unit.  Deceleration activated.

That little pendulum works off of being “rapidly” moved….or so Brake Buddy told me.  So, it wants to see “rapid” deceleration….so, your stomp on the service brakes and then hit the Pac.  Then the pendulum swings way out.  You get braking.  But, then it “zeros” itself….and the incline of the highway is now “ambient” or standard.

If it weren’t designed this way, then going down a hill and the pendulum hanging straight down and the decelerator being crooked would trigger it.

It has to be an “EVENT”, which activates the little rascal….then it says….OK….moving along at a steady rate.  Hit the brakes again…bingo.

Call and ask.  Etrailer MIGHT not be the most reliable tech support. I’ve read some of their comments and don’t agree

Demco has had this queation a million times….ask them.  They say NOPE for an exhaust brake DP….then ebay it and select a new system….

[jacwjames]

12 hours ago, tmw188 said:

 I have a Demco Stay N Play Duo sister to the Air Force One. My previous mh was a gasser and that’s what it was designed for but not designed for air brake systems especially coaches with exhaust brakes or Jake brakes because it works with a decelerometer which could be activated by an exhaust brake and burn up the brakes while decending a grade. I’ll  have my passenger confirm that. I was told originally by Etrailer that it would work on the air brake coach when I bought the Windsor some 3yrs ago.  I called Etrailer today with a trouble shooting question on something else since they installed it some 5 yrs ago. During the conversation the topic of the exhaust brake came up and that’s where we are now. I’ll know more hopefully tomorrow. I’ll probably need to switch the braking system. So that’s it. 

 

FWIW

The Demco Stay N Play Duo caught my eye,

I frequently visit the IRV2 site and recently saw a post on a 2023 Ford Maverick truck had ruined brakes do to the braking system.  I have looking for a newer Toad so I read the post.  Basically the system was not installed correctly and the mechanism that pulls the brake pedal failed but actually jammed the brake pedal and burnt the brakes up.

That got me interested so I did more searches and found one from Twinboat, a senior IRV2 poster who is pretty sharp.  https://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/demco-stay-in-play-duo-install-on-a-2023-maverick-625402.html  He was having trouble with the brakes locking up.  He worked with the tech support to improvise a solution.   Seems odd to me that it takes customer to help solve a major problem with a product. 

There are other posts of people having similar problems. 

 

When I set up my Toad I installed the Brakemaster 9160 system.  Simple reason was that someone had already taped into the air system and installed the quick disconnect.  Made the install a no brainer and I've been very happy with the performance, easy to take the air cylinder in/out and it is proportional.  I did install the small indicator light on the dash of the coach so I know the brake is working. 

[Dr4Film]

13 hours ago, tmw188 said:

Thanks for catching that Richard it should have read when the PAC Brake is on. I had two different questions I’m trying to get answers to, but really didn’t want them blended together. 
1) When the PacBrake is engaged, does the brake lights come on, I was told some do, some don’t and maybe. So I’m going to call it answered. 
The other question I needed an answer to was specific to my current braking system and was not intended to be answered on this thread, but inquiring minds want to know now. I have a Demco Stay N Play Duo sister to the Air Force One. My previous mh was a gasser and that’s what it was designed for but not designed for air brake systems especially coaches with exhaust brakes or Jake brakes because it works with a decelerometer which could be activated by an exhaust brake and burn up the brakes while decending a grade. I’ll  have my passenger confirm that. I was told originally by Etrailer that it would work on the air brake coach when I bought the Windsor some 3yrs ago.  I called Etrailer today with a trouble shooting question on something else since they installed it some 5 yrs ago. During the conversation the topic of the exhaust brake came up and that’s where we are now. I’ll know more hopefully tomorrow. I’ll probably need to switch the braking system. So that’s it. 

 

So, answer to question 1 - pending test with person following coach in a separate car.

Question 2 - This is a Cut & Paste from the Demco web site with regards to the Stay N Play Duo.

"DUO combines the power of air pressure and the gentleness of vacuum to give you the fastest most powerful self contained supplemental brake ever. Duo uses the power and speed of air pressure to activate your towed vehicle brake pedal while creating vacuum for the power brake system.

These two features combine to create the only progressive and proportionate vacuum assisted system with total control. Duo requires BOTH deceleration AND coach brake lights to apply the towed vehicle brakes. By combining two separate signals the need for complicated electronics is eliminated, which provides you a more reliable long lasting system. In addition, DUO is the pioneer in user friendly operation; "Just Turn it on...and Tow."

This simple technology was first introduced in 2003. Tried and true, DUO does not have to be taken in and out for normal operation of the towed vehicle. Unhook the car and drive off, that's all. No box, no wires, in fact, no physical connection to the motorhome at all."

Now I understand your concern about the brake lights coming on when the exhaust brake activates. Sorry, I cannot answer any question about the Demco system. I can answer questions about the RVIBrake-2 & 3 systems.

Good luck!

Edited May 19 by Dr4Film

[Jim McGarvie]

1 hour ago, dennis.mcdonaugh said:

I don’t care what they think when I’m going down a long steep grade either. I do want them to know when I'm using the PAC brake when coming to a stop. When I’m using the PAC brake, I am braking. Seem like those following ought to be aware of that. 

The PAC brake on our little 5.9L ISB does not decelerate us rapidly enough to be concerned about the brake lights.

[Dr4Film]

I agree with others about having my brake lights lit up while descending a long grade and what people behind must be thinking. I really don't care what they think as it happens to be MY coach not theirs but I do care about descending the grade safely.

In the Windsor with the upgraded PRXB Exhaust Brake, I would never let the coach go any faster than 52-53 before trouncing on service brakes to reduce my speed 8-10 mph less. If I did then it was off to the races down the hill out of control. There were some grades where I would be at 35-40 mph as they were very steep. 40 mph and below I always had my 4-ways flashing.

Now with the Dynasty, I never have to touch the service brakes while using the two-stage engine brake down the any grade I have done so far. I haven't been on any real steep grades as yet so I cannot speak to how the engine brake would handle a very steep grade. The longest grade I have been on is the Fancy Gap Grade on I-77 in VA.

[dl_racing427]

13 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

I really don't care what following drivers 'think', as long as they don't run into the back of me!

Having your brake lights on all the way down a grade means that if you actually have to BRAKE HARD, drivers behind you have NO WARNING!
That's a recipe for a bad accident.

A PAC or Jake brake is intended to maintain speed or gradually slow a vehicle, similar to closed throttle in a gas engine.
Your brake lights should NEVER operate unless your foot is on the BRAKE PEDAL.

Also, some brake controllers are miswired, and activate trailer brakes with the PAC brake.  Burned up brakes or even a trailer fire have been the usual results.

[96 EVO]

3 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

Having your brake lights on all the way down a grade means that if you actually have to BRAKE HARD, drivers behind you have NO WARNING!
That's a recipe for a bad accident.

 

I couldn't tell you whether my coach brake lights are on with the exhaust brake or not, but, I know my toad brake lights only activate with the brake pedal.

[dl_racing427]

7 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I couldn't tell you whether my coach brake lights are on with the exhaust brake or not, but, I know my toad brake lights only activate with the brake pedal.

That's good.  The toad or trailer lights should mimic what the coach lights do.
The more serious issue is being sure the toad brakes are only activated by the service brakes.

[tmw188]

Car brake lights work like they should.  The Duo worked great with the gasser mh and has a sensitivity adjustment on the pedal cylinder controller. I’ll hopefully get some test performed today. Yes that is why Etrailer asked about the exhaust brake and whether my brake lights came on when the PacBrake was activated. I’ve been towing for almost three yrs with it but with the larger mh it’s hard to feel the towed brakes come on, you have to look in the rear camera to verify by looking at the LED’s lighting up on the rear view mirror, which was working but now has stop displaying. The safety break away does work nicely but too not displaying the LED’s. I’ll look for a fuse after looking for a signal. Unfortunately I’ll probably need to change it out. Also I would recommend everyone checking their break away regularly or pre departure, it’s easy just pull it out. I had to replace mine 3yrs ago after checking it. Weather snow and salt will get to them over time.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, tmw188 said:

Car brake lights work like they should.  The Duo worked great with the gasser mh and has a sensitivity adjustment on the pedal cylinder controller. I’ll hopefully get some test performed today. Yes that is why Etrailer asked about the exhaust brake and whether my brake lights came on when the PacBrake was activated. I’ve been towing for almost three yrs with it but with the larger mh it’s hard to feel the towed brakes come on, you have to look in the rear camera to verify by looking at the LED’s lighting up on the rear view mirror, which was working but now has stop displaying. The safety break away does work nicely but too not displaying the LED’s. I’ll look for a fuse after looking for a signal. Unfortunately I’ll probably need to change it out. Also I would recommend everyone checking their break away regularly or pre departure, it’s easy just pull it out. I had to replace mine 3yrs ago after checking it. Weather snow and salt will get to them over time.

OK….I THINK that I see the issue.  The Demco worked on the Gasser…because it had a plain Jane simple BRAKE LIGHT SWITCH.

You CANNOT….I repeat PROPERLY install the Demco on a MONACO Motor home until you do the following.  IT JUST HIT ME & I pulled the DEMCO PRINT.

HERE I# THE ONLY WAY….using your factory configuration.  IF the Cyclops or middle brake or Liddy light ONLY COMES ON!!,  REPEAT….ONLY if activated from the SERVICE BRAKE PEDAL….that is a signal you can use.  It is the RED Brake Light Switch that Demco requires on page 21 of the manual….the wiring diagram.

IF your tail lights would only come on….from pushing the service brake … then it is still a potentially dangerous situation.  The Flashers will INTERRUPT the Brake LIGHT signal….thus….going down hilll…hit the service brake…all work, turn or or use your FLASHERS (Turn signal or EMERGENCY)…NOPE….the signal will flash and probably drive the Demco nuts.

Richard did this.  You locate the NEGATIVE SWITCHED Signal or the GROUND that is “made” when the brake pedal is pushed.  You connect that ground to terminal 86 of a Bosch relay.  Terminal 85 is connected to a IGNITION ON, fused (5 is way more than enough.  Then, you run a jumper from 85 to 30.  Then the wire from 87 goes to wiring for the Demco.  Look on page 21.  NOTE the RED WIRE goes to a brake switch.  @tmw188  Todd, you ain’t got a BRAKE LIGHT SWICH like this.

Then wire 85 is the RED to the unit.

NOW IF you had a 2005….or since Monaco GOOFED…a working 2006, it would have your wire.  Richard put in this relay and used it to hook up a trailer brake controller…..that’s the workaround or fix.

BOTTOM LINE….this answers it.  You HAVE to have a conventional 12 VDC Brake (service pedal) POSITIVE signal.  Monaco uses NEGATIVE.  You CAN use the NEGATIVE….locate the signal….install a relay as above….NOW, you have the equivalent of a POSITIVE SERVICE BRAKE LIGHT SWITCH….

End of debate and doscussuon…  TEST…then connect (BTW…I’d still use a relay for the positive….put the brake light brake bulb wire on terminal 85 and ground 82…rest is same…

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

Text from Todd.  Pretty straight forward.  The Demco was NOT designed for a DP that has the brake lights activated from the PAC.  Monaco does not have, on the pre 2005 models, the required Positive 12VDC brake light SWITCH signal…

Got your message I’ll have to look at that later. My test drive with passenger and tow today confirmed all three brake lights does come on when the PacBrake is engaged and it did engage the towed brakes slightly. Slightly is too much, it’s confirmed and that’s why Etrailer guy asked me about the brake lights coming on with the PB. I’m busy this evening and can’t talk today.

I responded back to Todd and will discuss and explain any concerns or issues…. INTERESTING…we have NOT been down this path before on TOAD brakes.  Trailer Brakes YES.  Todd needs the same fix that Richard installed….

STOP!  You need to read my post.  The System was NOT designed to work with a Monaco “NEGATIVE” switch. The solution is simple. Follow Richard’s solution.  Add in a relay that is ONLY activated by the service brake pedal. Then you have the POSITIVE 12 VDC signal required for your controller.  Page 21 is very clear. THEN, your existing system will work as Designed and be effective…assuming you do the sensitivity adjustments.

That sums it up and also answers some of the unknowns..

[Tom Cherry]

OK…. talked to Todd. Got a little more insight. In all fairness to him and me and others. DEMCO wasn’t to me…. the best in manuals. NOW, I admit to skimming and scrolling…but once we sorted out how it works…. the problem is defined.

DEMCO provides a FOUR pin harness. All you do is plug into any standard 4 wire system. Ground, LT/Stop, RT/Stop and Parking.

Page 21 of the manual shows that. They even include the diodes for the TOAD.

Todd’s is installed and works with his previous MH. He did NOT have an exhaust brake. The DEMCO is set up for a “signal” from both the Left and Right stop/turn. They have to be SIMULTANEOUS….so that the turn signal will not activate.

It you look at the print, that is now evident….so, I assumed the Brake Light switch was in the MH…nope the TOAD

After Todd’s experiment. We KNOW his PAC turns on the Cyclops as well as BOTH Left and Right stop. THEREIN…the problem. There are three solutions. The stock DEMCO Harness and his MH wiring (PAC turns on Brake Lights) ain’t going to work…SO the options….

EDIT...Todd just called.  He has found an upgrade or a conversion kit to retrofit the DEMCO to an AirForce1 style (Compressed Air) braking.  He has elected that option and will post the details.

This was written prior to.  I'm leaving the information here so that if others have the DEMCO system, they will understand and know the options.

OPTION 1. Rewire or reconfigure the PAC so that it ONLY brings on the center or CYCLOPS Brake light. That would fix it totally….and then the STOCK 4 pin system will work. Todd is a bit overwhelmed by this….and is less than enthusiastic about how to rewire and accomplish that.  THEREFORE…. if anyone has done this or understands the 2002 Windsor brake lights system, please PM HIM. Take this offline and resolve…. if you are successful…. then post the mods and the circuit changes…. would be great…

OPTION 2. Revise the Windsor MH brake wiring as Richard and others have done. This is the narrative and I have offered to mark up a print. Todd is concerned that this might be, at this time, pushing his electrical skill set..…a bit too complicated…. but here is the logic.

Find the GROUND Switched Pedal circuit up FRONT. Richard and others have. Install the conversion relay so that there is ONE 12 VDC output…. run a wire to the rear. Add that wire to the Umbilical…he has a 6 wire, I think, umbilical. Thee 6 wires are... 4 regular trailer wires (see above). He has a Charging line already in the umbilical…. add the BRAKE Signal. That will be in the Motor Home…as the signal or conversion relay is up front. Pins and wiring were detailed in a previous post.

Next. Add TWO 5 Pin BOSCH relays and they will go in the TOAD. The coils will be activated by the upfront conversion relay. When they close…. that will be from pressing the pedal…which is the way the DEMCO is activated or should be. The NEW wire from the upfront relay goes go pins 85 on each. Pins 86 are Ground,

Run TWO 5 Amp inline fused wires from the MAIN Charging circuit breaker. This is always HOT and is ignition (MH side) controlled. They go to terminal 30 on each relay. Then terminal 87, which will be HOT when the relay is energizes, will send the 12 VDC power to BOTH the Green and Yellow…wires to the controller....matters NOT which.

Once the Yellow and Green wires are clipped at the Controller….tape off the leads to the main trunk.  Then the main line to the rear will be left intact ... .so the stop & turn works…. on the TOAD. NO other wiring mods…

THEN hook up the terminal 87 wires to either the Green or Yellow…one each…. doesn’t matter…. keep the same color…Green to Green and Yellow to Yellow. THAT will do it. Push the Pedal. The pedal makes the circuit to the CONVERSION relay...and that sends a signal or closes the two TOAD relays…. that provides the 12 VDC to each of the Green and Yellow inputs to the controller.... works as DEMCO designed…Install 3 relays. Clip 2 wires…. Todd is reviewing….

OPTION 3…. abandon and update the DEMCO system and convert to the AirForce1 air braking....Todd is going that route...

See the print below.  Took me a few minutes to sort it out...but I THINK this is correct.  If anyone sees a flaw...chime in.  DEMCO did not cover all the bases or different SCENARIOS...Plain JANE.

DEMCO Wiring Diagram = TODD PROBLEM.pdf

[tmw188]

Ok all, so for those following here is the option I decided on that wasn’t in the mix until today after the install service manager informed me that Demco has come out with this conversion kit for this exact issue. It came about for those like me that went from a gasser with the Stay n Play braking system to a diesel mh and needed something different. It was the guy at Etrailer that brought up the question on the exhaust brake and the brake lights and it took off from there. So here is the new conversation kit link.

https://www.etrailer.com/qs/436347AA

Edited May 20 by tmw188

[Dr4Film]

That conversion kit is almost the price of a brand new RVIBrake-3.

However, i would bet that you may even find a used one for considerably less than a new one.