Cubflyer

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Read the beginning and then the last three paragraphs..... unless you REALLY get into this kind of thing..... Are Nitrogen Molecules Really Larger Than Oxygen Molecules? The correct answer, with respect to “permeation”, is yes. Graham’s Law Explained: The Difference between Effusion and Permeation There's often confusion associated with the molecular size, molecular weight and permeation properties of oxygen and nitrogen molecules, and GNI is often called to task to explain why nitrogen actually migrates (permeates) out through the rubber of a tire slower than does oxygen. We felt it best to leave it to the expertise of Dr. Keith Murphy to elaborate on the scientific principles: "Effusion" calculations are not appropriate for "permeation" of gas molecules through materials, such as the rubber of tire walls. There is a fundamental difference in transport occurring through “effusion”, and transport occurring through “permeation”. Effusion would be appropriate, if the O2 and N2 molecules were passing through a relatively large passage way through the tire wall, such as a leak. Graham's Law for "effusion" applies ONLY if the exit through which the molecules pass is relatively large compared to the size of the molecules and does NOT obstruct or constrain one molecule from passing through relative to the other molecule. O2 and N2 molecules are only slightly different in molecular size but both are very small. Thus, to constrain one molecule's (e.g., molecule of type A) passage relative to the other's (e.g., molecule of type B) passage, that passage way size must be fairly close in dimension to the sizes of the molecules themselves. Graham's Law does not apply, if the passage way is very small, as occurs for dimensions of passage ways in-between the polymer chains in a solid rubber, where the dimensions between the polymer chains do indeed constrain passage of the larger size molecule, which is actually N2, compared to less constraint on the smaller size molecule, which is actually O2. It is often mistakenly assumed that "molecular size" correlates directly with "molecular weight". O2 does have a greater molecular weight (32) than N2 (28), but O2 is actually smaller in size. Thus, O2 fits through the relatively tight passage ways between polymer chains in the rubber more easily than does N2. The difference is size between O2 and N2 is very small, only about 0.3 times 10 to the -10th meters (0.00000000003 meters). Among the various descriptions of the sizes of molecules, that most applicable to transport phenomena is called the "kinetic diameter" of molecules. The kinetic diameter is a reflection of the smallest effective dimension of a given molecule. It is easy to visualize that a given molecule can have more than one dimension, which characterizes its size, if the molecule is not spherical. O2 and N2 are diatomic molecules (two atoms joined by a chemical bond or bonds), not spheres in shape but rather cylindrical in shape, akin to the shape of a tiny jelly bean. Thus, a "length" dimension of the cylindrical shape is a larger dimension than the smaller "waistline" diameter of the cylindrical shape. In transport phenomena, the molecule with the smallest effective waistline diameter is that which behaves as the smallest molecule, i.e., has the smallest kinetic diameter. Literature reports of kinetic diameters for O2 and N2 molecules, derived from several different types of experimental measurements, give slightly different values, but all show that O2 has a slightly smaller diameter than N2. The following examples expressed in Angstrom units demonstrate this (one Angstrom unit is 10 to the -10th power meters, i.e., one-ten-billionth of a meter): from gas viscosity data, O2 2.96 and N2 3.16 (difference 0.20); from van der Waal's interaction data, O2 2.90 and N2 3.14 (difference 0.24); from molecular refraction data, O2 2.34 and N2 2.40 (difference 0.06). Other experiments, less applicable to transport situations, such as from closest packing, when the two molecules exist in a frozen solid state at very low temperatures, still show O2 to be a smaller size than N2 (O2 3.75 and N2 4.00, difference 0.25). The reason that O2, despite a larger MW 32, has a smaller diameter than N2 MW 28, lies in the electronic structure of the molecules. As indicated by quantum mechanical theory of molecules, the electrons of a molecule form a diffuse "cloud" surrounding the nuclei of the atoms in the molecule. The electron cloud around the oxygen nuclei in the O2 molecule is smaller, more compact in size, due to attractive electrostatic interactions between the electrons in the cloud and the greater positive charge of the nuclei of the O atoms in the O2 molecule. Each oxygen atom has 8 protons in its nucleus, while each nitrogen atom has only 7 protons in its nucleus. Thus, the overall size of the electron cloud of the O2 molecule is smaller than for N2, in part because its electron cloud is drawn in closer to the O nuclei by the greater positive charge on the O nuclei. The dimension of the molecule's electron cloud defines the size and shape for a given type of molecule. When one molecule bumps into another molecule, the outer-most extent of the electron clouds of each molecule repel each other in that local vicinity of the contact between the molecules. Each colliding molecule's electron cloud experiences a repulsion, due to the proximity to the like electrical charge of electrons around the other molecule in the collision. Since like electrical charges repel each other (like-repels-like), the electrostatic interaction between the electron clouds of the colliding molecules is repulsive. That repulsion effectively defines the size of the molecules. O2 "permeates" approximately 3-4 times faster than does N2 through a typical rubber, as is used in tires, primarily because O2 has a slightly smaller effective molecular size than does N2. A relationship that governs "permeation" is based on Fick's Law of Diffusion and Henry's Law of Solubilities, which takes into account the relative sizes of the molecules and their sizes compared to the very small passage way dimensions in the solid material (such as a rubber) through which the molecules "permeate". Combining Fick's and Henry's Laws yields the overall equation governing permeation of small molecules, such as gases, in material, such as rubbers and other plastics. Let's call the rate of permeation of gas (i), Ji, J-sub-i, which is simply the volumetric flux of gas permeation per unit of time. Conveniently used units of Ji are cubic centimeters of gas per second, or cm^3/s. Consider a sheet of the rubber, such as a section of the tire wall. That flux of gas permeating through a material is directly proportional to the first three factors, below, and inversely to the fourth factor, below: 1. the area, call it A (in units of square centimeters, cm^2) of the sample of the rubber - More flux of gas would occur, if the area were larger, if everything else were the same; next, 2. the driving force for transport across the wall, which is the difference in concentration of gas (i) across the tire wall - for convenience with gases, a nearly exactly correct measure of this is the difference in partial pressures (pi) of that gas (i) on the two sides of the tire wall (i.e., pi inside minus pi outside) - Obviously, a higher partial pressure (pressure units are cmHg, centimeters of mercury, and remember that 76 cmHg = 1 atmosphere = 14.7 psi) inside versus outside means there is more driving force to promote transport across the tire wall; then next, 3. the intrinsic permeability P, call it Pij, or P-sub-i-sub-j, is the "permeability coefficient" for the particular material (j) for that type of gas (i) - Note that various materials, i.e., different types of rubbers or plastics will permeate O2 faster or slower depending on the details of solid state structures of the materials, and different types of gases will permeate each material faster or slower depending on the relative sizes of the gas molecules, as well as on how soluble the gas is in the solid material; then lastly, 4. the thickness L (in units of cm) of the material - you can see that if the tire wall were, say, twice as thick, one would expect half the permeation rate (flux, cm^3/s), all other things being equal. Combine these four terms, and you get the permeation equation: Ji = [ Pij x A x (pi inside - pi outside) ] / L flux = permeability coefficient of gas (i) in material (j) of the tire wall multiplied by area multiplied by the partial pressure difference for gas (i) across the tire wall divided by the thickness of the tire wall. Similarly, for the other gas (m), its flux would be: Jm = [ Pmj x A x (pm inside - pm outside) ] / L since it would have a different permeability coefficient in that same rubber (j) and a different driving force across the tire wall. So, the fluxes for different gases will be different, depending on the relative magnitudes of the permeability coefficients of the two different types of gas molecules and the relative concentrations (partial pressures) of the two types of molecules on each side of the tire wall (i.e., inside vs outside). From the early part of this discussion, you will now recognize that Pi, where gas (i) is O2, is greater than Pm, where gas (m) is N2, principally because O2 has a smaller kinetic diameter than N2 and thus O2 has a larger permeability coefficient than does N2 - actually O2 has a permeability coefficient in a typical tire rubber material, which is about 3-4 times that of N2 in the same material. Permeation of O2 and N2 is primarily determined by size effects, because at normal temperatures and pressures relevant to the discussions of tires, these gases behave almost perfectly as Ideal Gases. As such, the differences in solubilities of O2 and N2 in most rubbers and plastics are too small to contribute to differences in their permeability coefficients. The differences observed are essentially solely due to the slight differences in the size of O2 relative to N2. In case you wish to do your own calculations, the units for P (the permeability coefficients) most often used in the technical literature are: [ cm^3 x cm ] / [ s x cm^2 x cmHg ] and for convenience, a standard unit of permeability is called the Barrer, after Richard Barrer, one of the early pioneers in studies of permeation in materials, such as rubbers and plastics. One Barrer unit is: 1 times 10 to the minus 10th power [cm^3 x cm]/[s x cm^2 x cmHg] In Barrers, for a typical rubber material, the permeability coefficient P, is dependant on temperature, but at 25C (77F) for O2 is about 10 and for N2 is about 3. I hope this helps clarify why O2 permeates faster through rubber than does N2 and a major aspect of why it is a good idea to significantly reduce the amount of O2 used to fill tires by replacing most of the O2 in air with enriched N2. Since N2 permeates through the tire rubber more slowly than would O2, using enriched nitrogen instead of air for tire filling contributes to better maintenance of the proper inflation pressure for the tire. Better pressure maintenance contributes to reduced tire wear, so that tires last longer and tire replacement costs are reduced. A simple but approximately correct explanation of this lies in the mechanics of the flexing of tire walls. If proper inflation pressure is maintained, the tire wall most effectively bears the weight of the vehicle. If pressure is allowed to fall too low, extra flexing that occurs as the vehicle bounces somewhat along the road causes excessive mechanical fatigue of the structure of the tire. Similar to flexing a wire coat hanger, this fatigue can weaken the tire faster than would be the case were it kept inflated to a pressure more consistent with that intended in its design. Dr. Keith Murphy Air Products and Chemicals, Inc. Prism Membranes St. Louis, MO

It was an interesting conversation... Something to think about.... 'The air in Earth's atmosphere is made up of approximately 78 percent nitrogen and 21 percent oxygen. Air also has small amounts of lots of other gases, too, such as carbon dioxide, neon, and hydrogen'.** straight out of a science book... So filling your tires with "air" gets you 78% there..... then, over time, as the smaller O2 molecules leak out, leaves you with a higher and higher % mix of Nitrogen. If I start adding nitrogen as the O2 leaks out (natural purging) eventually I will have 99% nitrogen (78 nitrogen+21oxygen=99). A 99% level I would think would give you 99% of the benefit of 100% Nitrogen. When I built up high altitude (jet) aircraft tires, they all got mounted on the rim and serviced with nitrogen, no 'purging' was performed. Just something to think about.... PS, I recommend using Nitrogen, and have a nitrogen bottle/regulator setup that I service struts and tires with, have had it for years and use it, I have not had to refill my bottle yet... when I do I believe it will cost less than $50. Ken

I found the 'Magic Smoke' but I'm still looking for the 'Mirrors' all electronic boxes have.....🤪

I'm leaving Pensacola in the morning, overnighting near Gainesville, getting into Lazy Days Tuesday afternoon ... Looking forward to a lot of learning and fellowship! Ken & Bonnie

Rick, I have not used my MH in a park for extended time, so I'm wondering, do you just open your dump valves and let things drain out to the sewer? When I've been hooked up for days, I dump things every few days as needed... Ken

My experience with those fan motors is that the speed that they run at (low, Med, Hi) is controlled with the resistor by changing the voltage supplied to the motor. So, my guess here is that the problem is in the circuit, not the fan motor.

If you do (bypass the lift pump) you will need to install a resistor (10 ohm????) into the connector that powers the lift pump. I found that the tube from the lift pump housing to the engine mounted fuel filter can be taken loose from the lift pump housing and rotated outboard, where you can install a #10 union (I used one with a 1/8" NPT port to add a pressure sending unit https://www.amazon.com/ACEFLOW-Adapter-Fitting-Pressure-Aluminum/dp/B088KMGCCQ/ref=sr_1_19 crid=1I6IVM5ETN3H5&keywords=10an+union+fitting&qid=1641154458&sprefix=%2310+AN+Union%2Caps%2C85&sr=8-19 ) and then attach the flexible rubber fuel supply hose to the #10 union. No more worry with a leaky gasket (since it will be under constant pressure of the FASS pump). Ken

It took me about three hours for the whole conversion project. I have since spent about an hour removing the old cracked, discolored 'decal'. I'm not too concerned about that, but will keep it in mind when in a crowded campsite by doing like the NFL coaches do... cover the keypad when entering the code. My Dad used to say 'locks are for honest people'...... If they want to get in, a lock is not going to stop them.

This is what I did… removed dead bolt, installed electronic lock upside down because of the interior trim. I no longer lock the latch, only the dead bolt… no keys needed (but one can be used). Works great for me, only ‘hard part’ was adapting the longer “bolt” to the lock to actuate. Used the original bolt adapted to connect to the lock.

Thank you Bart for finally answering the original posters question!

Are you saying that anyone that questions the reason to overfill a fuel tank 'lacks even a smidgen of common sense'? Common sense, in my opinion, is to fill a fuel tank, not to overfill a fuel tank. But if you can do it for years and years without incident, you are my hero. Next time I am filling up with fuel at a good price I'll have to tilt my rig, and fill it to over capacity to prove I have even a smidgen of common sense. This tread started out with concerns of the nozzle not staying in the tank while filling and not shutting off without fuel spilling out first, and somehow has been turned into how to put more fuel in the tanks.

I guess I'm missing the reason to put 120 gals of fuel in a 100 gal tank (by tilting it to the side) when I can't drive 100 gallons out of my tank in a driving day..?? Not to mention the $ cost of over 50 gals at a time.... Risking the spill of a $3 plus a gallon product is beyond me....

So far it has shut off every time, no fuel spill..... upside down nozzle kind of acts like a fish hook, rather than a slinky...

Rotate the nozzle 180 degrees (upside down from 'normal') and with the door mine stays in the tank just fine without me holding it.....

My advice is you should not just tighten that fitting.... things like that do not just start leaking for no reason.... take it apart, something there is probably cracked... if not some fresh thread sealant (not teflon tape) may (MAY) seal things up.... good luck! But trying that stop leak product Ivylog suggests sounds like a good (easy) first step... Ken

Love your "steering wheel" table...

What you have pictured and described is the 'classic' lift pump leak. That lower housing is not like a spin on filter, it is the body of the pump. The standard leak is between the pump and the housing (where the hoses attach). The pump is held to that housing with three thru bolts from the top. Try tightening them, do not try to 'twist' the pump body (tighter). Jim J (JACWJAMES) has suggested the best and the real long term fix. I had the same leak, I by passed the whole mess, housing and all, used a #8 or #10 union with a 1/8" NPT "tap" (to install a fuel pressure gauge) to connect the flex hose to the engine to the metal tube from the lift pump output to the secondary filter together. Mounted a FASS pump and filter unit where the original 'Primary' filter (the one with the clear plastic bowl on the bottom) originally lived. Added a return hose to the fuel tank. If I buy another DP, that FASS pump & filter system will be the first thing I install. Ken

I mounted my fuel pressure gauge in the side console..... it's not like I have to see it all the time..... made room for it there when I remade that (broken) plastic panel. Mounted it back by the parking brake air valve.

Bob, I thought at first I would replace the gasket, bought one, never installed it since I had more problems than just a leaky pump (old, black fuel).... so I went the FASS Filter/pump route. Totally bypassing the original pump. I have a gasket if you want it, I'll never use it.... (maybe two) It sure is reassuring having constant inlet pressure of clean solid (airless) fuel on the inlet of that expensive (and hard to change) CAPS injector pump. Ken

I have a car in a garage in Denver that due to Covid I did not see for about a year and a half.... I have this plugged into it...https://www.amazon.com/BatteryMINDer-Model-12117-Maintainer-Desulfator/dp/B000P23HZS/ref=sr_1_7?crid=J9IO6JZHLHS&keywords=batteryminder+plus&qid=1636331862&qsid=133-9439811-4759332&sprefix=batteryminder%2Caps%2C90&sr=8-7&sres=B00Q3CM2QY%2CB01L0HTX72%2CB07W46BX31%2CB000P23HZS%2CB005EKY1EM%2CB07W8KJH44%2CB07W6B987F%2CB07MCTXFC7%2CB010NRKERI%2CB01D3SWXUA%2CB01KMFMEVU%2CB0742J2BLX%2CB06XWDZ2KQ%2CB0742FTCKY%2CB01MZ6GI98%2CB005EKY20K%2CB0000CEWWB%2CB01ERZ0CC4%2CB001DZJX6I%2CB01GVSWXT0 When I got to it last June the car started right up, drove it around for two weeks, then put back on charge.... that car has been there 3 years, being used once a year on average. The battery is at least 5 years old... I might add the proper amount of Stabil for the quantity of gas in the tank and shake it up a bit also... Ken

Poly Bushings... I do not know... others may... I thought about that also.. seems that would help the H frame to be more stable, those long trailing link arms multiply the smallest motion at one end into big movement at the other. I guess there was a reason to make them soooo long, longest I've ever seen.. I also wondered why the pan hard rod is so far from being centered over the axles... Ken

Great photos! IMHO replacing air bags will do nothing, unless they are leaking and not holding air. The ride height is controlled by air valves. With an unlimited supply of air the only reason the valves would not control the ride height is if the lines or airbags leaks exceed the volume capacity of the valves..... not likely (it would not be a subtle leak). The beltline measurement is a good idea for a rough idea of your ride height but you rally need to set the height with measurements between the points given in the manual (between frame and H frame or airbag mounting points?) as there can be much more than 1/4"-1/2" difference in ground surface on even the flattest ground. I believe the specs on the ride height are within 1/8"-1/4" (been a long time since I looked at mine). Sounds like you are on the right course and will get there. Ken

Caster is the fore and aft tilt of the kingpins.... angle is built into the axle mounting pads, it's relationship to the ground can only change by changing it's mounting to the "H" frame... so it could be adjusted, without bending things..... not sure why they would say it's not adjustable, it just should not need to be adjusted... Did they give you and specifications? Or what the caster and camber angles were?... sure they adjusted the toe, but to what?? What was it and what is it now...? When you are trying to troubleshoot something it's good to have data... but they probably did not give you any..

If only they would 'stay to the right'...... and not initiate a pass on a hill, up or down, unless you have enough "wheaties" to do it (actually pass)...