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Monoco Windsor ‘02 leveling problem


kgflawson57
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Coach will not remain leveled after automatic leveling. We took it back to HWH where they thought they replaced CDE o-rings, RF travel solenoid, supplemental pump, and repaired front air manifold block. When this did not solve problem, they suggested replacing air bags. We did this, but it did not solve problem. We don’t know what to do next. Any ideas?

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Wow, that sounds like a lot of expense with no resolution. At least some of it is good preventative maintenance, like the airbag replacement. There isn't much left other than hoses and fittings. Seems that they don't suspect the controller taking it out of level and you would likely know if it did, like if the sensor was flaky. Once leveled and all the valves with new o-rings are closed, the only things in play are the hoses/fittings to your new airbags. You could be more descriptive in how exactly does it get out of level, left-right, front-rear, can you hear the valves opening when it happens or is it over time.

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You should hear it if the valves are adding or releasing air. Also feel it inside. My guess is a push fitting has come loose. Air bags only work if the system has a a charge. Or air in the tank. They drop with the pressure. Dont belive it's a command thing. 

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Ivan, the coach on auto Level will level ok then sleep after 30 minutes. We could hear it adjusting, then again 30 minutes later adjusting. After 5 to 8 hours the coach would be leaning to the left,  always drivers side. Today, it levels ok but starts adjusting in 5 minutes,  and within 15 minutes it is leaning to the left,  but down really low in the left rear and up high at the right front. Erratic adjustments and eventually shutting itself off. All this is happening on a mostly level concrete slab. 

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Do the yellow lights on touchpad correspond to your visual observation? When it shuts off, does your red 'excess slope" light come on? Can you ever hear the new compressor to run? From your description it would seem that there is a leak in your driver rear corner but if you are on a level ground, the coach should just keep lowering until it sits level on bump stops. Just to be sure, we are talking about air leveling, correct?

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I would start by looking for a leak in left rear as that's where it seems to be dropping. If there isn't more than at least around 65 PSI in your tanks, the compressor should kick in when that airbag is near empty but it may not be able to keep up and the system quits after 20 or so minutes of trying. It should turn on the red 'excess slope' light at that point too.

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One more thing you may want to have checked out besides the LR leak is plumbing of your aux compressor. If it is plumbed like ours to directly feed the big air tanks, it will not have the capacity to fill them from empty before timing out. The factory messed it up on ours but since we have no major leaks, it did not bother me enough to fix it yet. If your configuration includes a small auxiliary tank just for leveling, this would not apply.

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I was about to start a thread on this exact problem. I have had this problem for longer than I can remember. I even had the Monaco RV shop in Wildwood FL waste 3 hours of their time and MY money looking for leaks from one end to the other.

I do not use the Auto-Level as it never levels the coach exactly the way I like it. So I always level manually then leave the the system powered on.

I had been parked for almost two months at my brother's farm in Danvsville NY where the slope of the spot was higher in the rear than the front. Therefore the rear end was totally deflated and the front was raised to make the coach level. It stayed that way until leaving with no adjustments needed.

We are now on a site at Bear Den Family Campground where the slope is just the opposite. Low in the rear, high in the front. Every morning the coach is leaning to the drivers side and lower in the rear. When I use the manual buttons to raise the rear it does not go up. The only way to get the rear back up is to turn off the HWH then start the engine and bring the coach to ride height.

I am betting that the 6-Pack valves need to be replaced or rebuilt especially the one in the rear and specifically the solenoids. The solenoids appear to be working fine for ride height but when using the HWH AUX Compressor the rear RAISE solenoids are not allowing air to go into the air bags from the AUX compressor but the LOWER solenoids are working. However both the ride height and lower solenoids are working correctly. The front 6-Pack appears to be working fine for all six solenoids.

The air bag travel on the rear is restricted to a specific height so it won't damage the drive shaft I believe whereas the front will go up significantly higher than the rear.

With none or very little air in the supply tanks, when using the RAISE and LOWER buttons the lower button works find and dumps all of the air in the bags. When using the raise button only the front goes up. This clearly points to the solenoids not opening in the rear 6-Pack.

The HWH System will use any air in the tanks first if there is enough psi in them or if not it will switch over to use the HWH AUX Compressor. Also the Ride Height and Air Leveling systems are separated with the 6-Pack Solenoid Valves. Each 6-Pack has two Ride Height valves, one for each side, two RAISE valves and two LOWER valves. My lower valves in the rear appear to faulty.

Does this logic make sense?

I forgot to ask members where I can go in Florida to have this type of work on my 6-Pack valves completed?

Any recommendations?

Edited by Dr4Film
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Thank you for this!  Your leveling issues sound very much like our problems!  We’ve been to the HWH plant in Moscow, Iowa to solve this with no resolution. Local repair shops can’t find the problem either. Like you, we want to know where to turn next. Tired of throwing money at this with no fix. Please let us know if you find about more!  

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Kim, today I plan to remove the cover to the master control box which is located on the ceiling in my rear storage bay and test/check fuses #8 & #9 which control the rear RAISE solenoids. I will also check to see if there is power on the Green and Orange wires which are the power wires going to the LR and RR raise solenoids. That will tell me whether the fuses are OK and whether the control board is functioning OK. If both of those two conditions check out to be good then chances are it's the solenoids that are bad or the wires going from the control board to the solenoids have been compromised.

Are you able to raise and lower the coach using the AUX compressor in all four corners? If so then your problem is much different than mine.

Edited by Dr4Film
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21 minutes ago, kgflawson57 said:

Thank you for this!  Your leveling issues sound very much like our problems!  We’ve been to the HWH plant in Moscow, Iowa to solve this with no resolution. Local repair shops can’t find the problem either. Like you, we want to know where to turn next. Tired of throwing money at this with no fix. Please let us know if you find about more!  

We have checked the fuses you mention, but not power to the wires. However, we cannot raise the rear the coach in the REAR with the six compressor. Your logic makes sense to us that lower solenoids or valves are faulty. HWH replaced one solenoid without solving problem when we had the coach there a couple weeks ago. We have a call back into them. So frustrating. 

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Kim,

OK, I have tested the fuses and #8 & #9 check out OK. I will have to wait for my wife to return home this afternoon to check power on the Green and Orange contacts as I need someone to push the manual UP button for the rear.

Troubleshooting is not that difficult. You do have to get at the HWH Control Panel on the ceiling of your storage bay to check fuses and whether you have power going to the Green and Orange contacts (for raising the rear end) or for that matter any of the power wires in the connectors. Plus for any other troubleshooting.

I am still confused as to what works and what doesn't so please perform these following steps and report back your findings.

Start engine and bring coach to Ride Height. Turn off engine.

Step #1, put HWH in manual mode, NOT Auto. In other words only push the ON button once NOT twice.

Step #2, Push each LOWER button (the DOWN arrow) to see if the coach goes down, front, rear, right, left. There are four buttons. Push one at a time, front, rear, left side and right side. If you run out of air bag travel while checking you may have to bring the coach back to ride height again to continue checking.

Before going onto Step #3 it's best to turn off the HWH panel then bring the coach back to ride height. Turn off engine. Then lower the coach about halfway by releasing the air out of the bags using the manual LOWER button (the one with FOUR down arrows).

Step #3, Turn the HWH Control Panel to ON. Push each RAISE button (the UP arrow) to see if the coach goes UP. There are four buttons. Push one at a time, front, rear, left side and right side.

Before going onto Step #4 turn off the HWH panel and bring the coach to ride height.

Step #4, Now push the LOWER button (the one with FOUR down arrows). Does the coach go down on all four corners equally?

Step #5, Now push the RAISE button (the one with FOUR up arrows). Does the coach go up equally on all four corners?

That information will indicate what your problem may be or at least some direction to go in next.

BTW, do you have the manual for your HWH Air leveling System? If not I can send you one.

Edited by Dr4Film
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Kim, I will post it here then you can download it to your Laptop or whatever device you choose to store the PDF file on.

I have the 500 model in my coach and I assume yours would be the same. I also have the manual for the 600 model which has the same control panel but uses a different master control board. If your control board does not look like the one in the 500 manual I can post the 600 manual.

HWH 500 Model.pdf

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Rich,  Your predicament where you need that extra person is exactly why I posted that tip about using a regular extension cord we all have. With a plug on another short piece of wire with alligator clips you can rig up anything to test from one spot while your in another looking at your meter or test light while you control the actions. Anyway there have been some good post on this site about the 6- packs I myself am going to replace all my O-rings   this spring when I get back from Fl. You can get all the rings for all three 6-packs including the ones in the solenoid that HWH doesn't sell for about $11 in Viton from O-rings & More if you choose to do it yourself.

Roy 

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Please count me in the group with exactly the same leveling problem with a slightly different “feature.” My coach, ‘03 Camelot, levels perfectly with Auto and maintains level as long as there is air in the tanks and the leveling pad “ON.” When the air is gone, the curb side rear settles. It does the same thing with the leveling system OFF - same corner settles to the stops. My auxiliary compressor does not operate, probably having burned out trying to keep the coach level before I bought it 4 years ago - something the crack inspector didn’t catch or understand. The people in Wildwood (before it was Lazy Days) spent an entire day looking for leaks with me paying their hourly rate. Then they changed the 6 pack with no improvement. The next step they said was to change one of the air bags on that corner and several more hours of leak chasing - with no improvement. They said the aux compressor was hard to source and discouraged replacing it. Cummins Coach Care admitted they had no clue. So far I’ve spent over $3,000 and the problem is not fixed. I don’t have the mechanical skills you guys do so I’ve learned to live with the problem and was hoping to get to HWH this past summer - but COVID stopped all our travel plans. With the kind of camping we do, I’ve found sites level most of the time. In my weak trouble shooting, I’ve found that if I connect a small electric compressor (pressure set to 90 psi) to the front air supply nozzle near the generator, the coach will stay level with the compressor coming on for 8 or 10 minutes every few hours. I believe my problem is pressure protection valves, what we called one-way check valves back when I used to fly for a living, and the aux compressor. I’ve downloaded the HWH manual and will be studying it. Thanks. 

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Hi Roy, thanks for the tip with the extension cord. I have done that in some instances when access is easier. I hate to mess with anything on the driver's side dash where the HWH panel is located due to its frail condition.

Rebuilding the 6-Pack valves (if needed) myself is not something that I have all of the equipment and resources to accomplish. Therefore I need to find someone reputable to tackle the task.

Once I get the next test done today with checking the power to the connector harness I will know whether the control board is my problem or if it's further down the line with possibly wires or the RAISE solenoids.

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Mike, leaks are some of the hardest things to find because some are very tiny and slow. I did the same with Wildwood RV and decided that I wasn't going to waste more time and money looking for leaks. If my HWH Air Leveling system were working correctly I can compensate for those small pesky leaks by raising the rear end up once a day on sites that are sloping to the rear. Last year I finally got the AUX air compressor replaced and relocated to a well protected location. But now the only way I can raise the rear end is with the engine. Once I have solved my rear 6-Pack problem I will be a happy camper as the small leaks are the least of my problems.

As Dave Pratt has constantly stated, if the two main air supply tanks leak down over night or over a few days, that is well within the acceptable range of the standards for leak-down. Mine leaks down to about 80 psi in 24 hours then continues to leak slowly until about 30 psi or less.

The HWH Air Leveling system will use air from those supply tanks first but once the supply tanks reach a specific psi, the AUX compressor takes over. Since it is a closed system the leaks in the main tanks have no bearing on the air leveling system.

I have attached another HWH manual you may be interested in having and reading.

HWH Air Leveling Systems Text Book.pdf

Edited by Dr4Film
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7 hours ago, miacasa_2000 said:

Rich,  Your predicament where you need that extra person is exactly why I posted that tip about using a regular extension cord we all have. With a plug on another short piece of wire with alligator clips you can rig up anything to test from one spot while your in another looking at your meter or test light while you control the actions. Anyway there have been some good post on this site about the 6- packs I myself am going to replace all my O-rings   this spring when I get back from Fl. You can get all the rings for all three 6-packs including the ones in the solenoid that HWH doesn't sell for about $11 in Viton from O-rings & More if you choose to do it yourself.

Roy 

Do you know part ##s I wanna order them 

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