Cubflyer Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 My first MH, My first Diesel Pusher...03 HR Endeavor Found my lift pump leaking, research indicates a FASS pump is a great replacement for the original lift pump, bypassing the factory lift pump problems and providing airless fuel to the Injector pump. Here's my quest- Has anyone installed one of these pumps on a RR8R chassis and where did you mount it? tapped into the ignition controlled power? routed the return fuel hose back to the tank? Photos would be helpful.... Thanks, Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) Just did this. There is a ready made kit. Works great! Not sure if I can mention the name. I can get some pics tomorrow for install on our 02 Diplomat Edited March 27, 2021 by JDCrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank McElroy Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 There is a recent youtube video from a person who recently installed one on a Dynasty. It's a fairly long video but Mike goes into a lot of detail on how he selected the pump location and why. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Mike is a true craftsman. His coach is so nice and his shop too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 Great video, he is quite the craftsman! Some good tips there but it does not seem to be like the RR8R chassis..... still collecting data.. I hope to be able to post what my install becomes. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 So on the kit I did, the pump is in the compartment with the Jack hydros, air dryer, and primary filter, I guess it’s the AC fan compartment. Anyway, welded in a cross section of c metal. Custom hose from primary filter to pump, then pump to secondary filter. Capped the ports on the primer pump, which is still used as the return line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 Thanks JD, BTW love your post about your project, I need to do the same to my floor... I was thinking about putting it in that area by the AC condenser, already have a fuel/water filter there, but have not found a way to (easily) route the return hose back (forward) to the tank.... are you saying you were able to use a hose that is already at the lift pump to get my excess FASs fuel back to the tank? I was told that I could/should not 'piggy back' on the capps fuel return line, is the primer line separate from the capps return line? I really need a schematic of this Cummins diesel fuel system.... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Hutto Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 10 hours ago, JDCrow said: Not sure if I can mention the name. Sure you can! Name, website, etc. All of that is fair game. Since we’re not a commercial site, there’s no issue with mentioning company names, other RV websites, etc. Our philosophy is that we’re here to help each other, and if there’s good information on another site, don’t hesitate to share it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Ok great! Being new I don’t know everything or want to rock the the boat https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Diesel-Fuel-System/UP95G-Heavy-Duty-Lift-Pump-for-Cummins-ISC-ISL-CAPS-Fuel-System This is the kit I purchased. Has all the fitting, wiring, relays etc. I had to mount it and measure for hose ($200 at Parker store) The diagrams show the flow route you are looking for. I’ll see if I can find the paperwork. I’ll also get you pics here shortly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Here’s fuel flow pics People call it a “lift pump” but all it does is prime for 30 seconds and kicks off. The main injection pumps then sucks fuel from the tank. This FASS pulls from tank and pushes to pump. At 15psi. Leaving the return line from main pump to primer pump allows the return line to stay intact and used. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 JD, This is what I'm installing... https://www.xtremediesel.com/fass-ts-165g-titanium-signature-series-165gph-fuel-system?gclid=CjwKCAjwr_uCBhAFEiwAX8YJgfmRS5XpIBpVaODSpPCsJY_8OzxkpIRxEJtF4ewpdtei0P8t7bLsAhoC0lgQAvD_BwE It serves as a replacement for the lift pump (the unit you installed just replaces the lift pump) and pumps way more fuel thru it's filters that returns to the tank as "cleaned" fuel, along with the air that is removed from the fuel sent to the CAPS system. I will have to see how it plumbs into the system, once the kit arrives (next week). Ken JD, YES ! Thank you that is a big help to 'undwrstand' the plumbing.. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) Nice set up for sure. We are reaching the same goal. It’s not a “lift pump” like on a ISB. The systems are just cutting out the primer pumps. The kit I used just retains the factory fuel filters. With your kit you can either use 4 filters or eliminate the factory filters and use the FASS filters. Both kits are pushing fuel to Capps pump, and returning unused fuel to the tank. You will be better served to follow the YouTube video posted as he installs the same system as you are wanting to do. I didn’t have the time or fab knowledge to attempt what Mike does, the ultra RV product took care of what I suspect we are both after, keeping $5k in our pockets for a Capps pump failure not to occur. I’ll snap some pics here in a min Few pics The ignition wire I found and tapped into for pump Relay for pump fuse the FASS pump mounted. Hose from Primary to pump, then hose it to secondary. I can crawl under and show you the relay plugged into the Primer pump if you want to see it and get pics of the primer pump capped off. The capped hose is the original hose. I left it there in case I ever have a failure with FASS to keep me moving Edited March 27, 2021 by JDCrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 JD, considering this statement from UltraRvProducts.... 'This heavy duty adjustable fuel pump is designed to meet the demands of the added strain of a performance module on the CAPS fuel system. The CAPS fuel system is known to be a weak fuel system as the factory lift pump only engages for the first 30-45 seconds after the key-switch is engaged. After this, the CAPS pump "pulls" the fuel and acts as the only pump in the system. By adding this heavy duty pump, not only are you taking away a lot of stress on the CAPS pump but you are also providing a steady flow of fuel that will help cool and lubricate the pump to increase the reliability and longevity of the CAPS pump. This adjustable pump is rated at 95 gallons of diesel fuel per hour and come preset at 15 PSI. Using a 1/8" Allen plug, you can make a quick clockwise adjustment to increase pressure or counter clockwise to decrease pressure'. And what you said about the first 30 sec run... and the instructions you (so graciously) posted.... They seem to be using the factory lift pump wiring to control a relay that powers the new PASS lift pump.... so I would think it will only run when the ECM tells it to (the first 30 sec of ignition key engagement)..... What am I missing or not understanding?? I definitely want to run the system I'm installing full time, not just for 30 sec.... Ken P.S. I hope I'm not taking you away from your RV project....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 I’m no electrical engineer by any feat. The factory “lift/prime” pump has a sensor on the bottom power/sensing to computer. You install a relay to “trick” the computer into believing the pump is still active, but it is not. The kit comes all wired, you tap an ignition wire, there is a wire for 12v from the battery and ground. The ignition wire in kit goes to relay, and so when ignition is on, relay sends constant power to FASS pump. Which spits out 15psi. That appears to be the limit the CAPPS main pump likes. If someone else is more up to speed on the electrical side, chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 JD, Your photos are very helpful, the photo of where you tapped into the fuel system seems to be at the coach mounted (first filter from the fuel tank) filter. I have a diagram of the Cummins fuel system that shows how the engine returns fuel off of the injector rail to the tank... it does not look like I can tap into that with my FASS return fuel, as it would 'back pressure' the fuel rail... All a learning curve... trying to get up to speed.. I may be installing this new FASS pump up in the front near the fuel tank.... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 So item 2 in the diagram has 2 sides. The supply side is what I bypassed. from my FASS it goes straight to secondary filter (item 3) The “lift” pump is capped on both ends. The other side which doesn’t show where it goes is the return side of the pump? That’s what I’ve been told as it is intact and works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 yep, got it.. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealcj8 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 I just installed a FASS pump on my 01 diplomat and I used the pump to replace the filter in my side compartment and bypassed my lift pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) Neal, Did you install the pump with the two filters? or just the lift pump replacement? This is what my filter looks like in the left hand side area behind the LH tire. Is this where you put yours? Edited March 27, 2021 by Cubflyer clarify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealcj8 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 18 hours ago, Cubflyer said: Neal, Did you install the pump with the two filters? or just the lift pump replacement? This is what my filter looks like in the left hand side area behind the LH tire. Is this where you put yours? Yes I installed the FASS with two filters. I just mounted my FASS on that plate whe n I removed that filter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDCrow Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Thanks! Gauge now on todo list. Do you keep a spare relay now? It is on my list for onboard parts now LOL. Having only driven the coach with FASS, as it was my first mod, can you explain any differences you noticed? And pics of install as the OP is looking for install ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile Marker 42 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) I installed an AirDog only pump and retained my 2 fuel filters. I added a Goldenrod filter before the pump. Here is my install at post #116 here: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/caps-fass-and-airdog-518703-9.html. There are lots of ways to skin a cat. Edited March 28, 2021 by Mile Marker 42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) Thanks Neal, I think BikedaveM and JD installed just the lift pump replacement FASS pump, I'm (and I believe you) installing the pump with filter system that returns fuel to the tank. I have a "Roadmaster" RR8R chassis, and it is looking like I will be mounting the system in the front near the fuel tank. But I'm not fully decided or locked into that idea. My biggest concern is getting the 1/2" hose routed forward thru the chassis to the fuel tank. If there is a trick or easy way to do that .... I'm listening! Ken Edited April 2, 2021 by Cubflyer spelling correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanwill52 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Ken, My choice between the FASS and competing systems was based purely on the fact that the "always on" FASS pump bypasses a great deal of fuel through the filters constantly. YES, it does require a dedicated return hose to the tank. NO, you cannot use the existing return line from the lift pump. It's like having a fuel filtration system operating fulltime. I had a serious problem with algae in my fuel tank several years ago and even put together a homemade "fuel polishing" system to clean my tank. It worked, and got me going again. I installed the FASS system to help permanently keep that algae and other contaminants from causing future problems. And initially I changed the TWO primary filters TWICE very soon after installing the FASS system. Since having the algae problem, I always cut open my fuel filters to see what they have "trapped". I'm glad to see "bikedavem" (sorry, don't know your name) commenting that adding the FASS (or any other) system made no perceptible difference in performance. Any perceptions of increased performance are purely between the user's ears (kind of like curing wandering with different shocks). But you are POSSIBLY increasing the life of your CAPS pump by pumping through it under pressure a great deal more fuel than it needs, thereby giving it uninterrupted lubrication and cooling. Another benefit of the FASS (or other brand) system is that IFF you install a fuel pressure gage at the inlet to the CAPS pump (OUTLET of the secondary fuel filter), you will have an "early warning" system to let you know a filter will soon need changing. I no longer change filters based on time or mileage. I replace them when the pressure at the CAPS pump falls from 15 PSI to 10 PSI or lower. Van 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubflyer Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 Vanwill52, Totally agree... I'm looking for the fuel cleaning also.....Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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