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FASS system on RR8R Chassis


Cubflyer

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My first MH, My first Diesel Pusher...03 HR Endeavor  Found my lift pump leaking, research indicates a FASS pump is a great replacement for the original lift pump, bypassing the factory lift pump problems and providing airless fuel to the Injector pump.

Here's my quest- Has anyone installed one of these pumps on a RR8R chassis and where did you mount it? tapped into the ignition controlled power? routed the return fuel hose back to the tank?  Photos would be helpful....

Thanks,

Ken

 

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There is a recent youtube video from a person who recently installed one on a Dynasty.  It's a fairly long video but Mike goes into a lot of detail on how he selected the pump location and why.

 

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So on the kit I did, the pump is in the compartment with the Jack hydros, air dryer, and primary filter, I guess it’s the AC fan compartment.

Anyway, welded in a cross section of c metal.

Custom hose from primary filter to pump, then pump to secondary filter. Capped the ports on the primer pump, which is still used as the return line. 
 

 

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Thanks JD, BTW love your post about your project, I need to do the same to my floor... 

I was thinking about putting it in that area by the AC condenser, already have a fuel/water filter there, but have not found a way to (easily) route the return hose back (forward) to the tank.... are you saying you were able to use a hose that is already at the lift pump to get my excess FASs fuel back to the tank? I was told that I could/should not 'piggy back' on the capps fuel return line, is the primer line separate from the capps return line?  I really need a schematic of this Cummins diesel fuel system....

Ken

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10 hours ago, JDCrow said:

Not sure if I can mention the name. 

Sure you can!  Name, website, etc.  All of that is fair game.  

Since we’re not a commercial site, there’s no issue with mentioning company names, other RV websites, etc.  Our philosophy is that we’re here to help each other, and if there’s good information on another site, don’t hesitate to share it.

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Ok great! Being new I don’t know everything or want to rock the the boat

 

https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Diesel-Fuel-System/UP95G-Heavy-Duty-Lift-Pump-for-Cummins-ISC-ISL-CAPS-Fuel-System

 

This is the kit I purchased. Has all the fitting, wiring, relays etc. I had to mount it and measure for hose ($200 at Parker store) 

The diagrams show the flow route you are looking for. I’ll see if I can find the paperwork. I’ll also get you pics here shortly 

 

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Here’s fuel flow pics 

People call it a “lift pump” but all it does is prime for 30 seconds and kicks off. The main injection pumps then sucks fuel from the tank.

This FASS pulls from tank and pushes to pump. At 15psi. Leaving the return line from main pump to primer pump allows the return line to stay intact and used.

D9A22BD2-B9BE-4D8C-9E5F-4A111823C04B.jpeg

95585496-FCBF-4398-B1E2-B369A5C729EA.jpeg

C9F00801-BABF-4437-8EF8-57DE6AFD08C8.jpeg

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JD,

This is what I'm installing...  https://www.xtremediesel.com/fass-ts-165g-titanium-signature-series-165gph-fuel-system?gclid=CjwKCAjwr_uCBhAFEiwAX8YJgfmRS5XpIBpVaODSpPCsJY_8OzxkpIRxEJtF4ewpdtei0P8t7bLsAhoC0lgQAvD_BwE

It serves as a replacement for the lift pump (the unit you installed just replaces the lift pump) and pumps way more fuel thru it's filters that returns to the tank as "cleaned" fuel, along with the air that is removed from the fuel sent to the CAPS system.  I will have to see how it plumbs into the system, once the kit arrives (next week).

Ken

JD,

YES ! Thank you that is a big help to 'undwrstand' the plumbing..

Ken

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Nice set up for sure. 
 

We are reaching the same goal. It’s not a “lift pump” like on a ISB. The systems are just cutting out the primer pumps. The kit I used just retains the factory fuel filters. With your kit you can either use 4 filters or eliminate the factory filters and use the FASS filters. 
 

Both kits are pushing fuel to Capps pump, and returning unused fuel to the tank. 
 

You will be better served to follow the YouTube video posted as he installs the same system as you are wanting to do. I didn’t have the time or fab knowledge to attempt what Mike does, the ultra RV product took care of what I suspect we are both after, keeping $5k in our pockets for a Capps pump failure not to occur. 
 

I’ll snap some pics here in a min 

Few pics 

The ignition wire I found and tapped into for pump 

Relay for pump 

fuse

the FASS pump mounted.

Hose from Primary to pump, then hose it to secondary. 
 

I can crawl under and show you the relay plugged into the Primer pump if you want to see it and get pics of the primer pump capped off.

35B1F8A1-B88B-4830-AD89-2E2D0BA8ED3D.jpeg

68ECA135-BF72-443E-8D9E-39FFFED644A7.jpeg

C7389946-6823-4E44-9B86-DC2E7AAE7DDE.jpeg

A81A2311-43A0-4CD2-B8A6-9F9467A47DED.jpeg

16FD3E5F-E391-4F3D-AD31-D0C921F7C0FA.jpeg

15C0A71C-9226-4E78-B1D0-3E19F7FA636E.jpeg

The capped hose is the original hose. I left it there in case I ever have a failure with FASS to keep me moving 

Edited by JDCrow
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JD,

considering this statement from UltraRvProducts....

'This heavy duty adjustable fuel pump is designed to meet the demands of the added strain of a performance module on the CAPS fuel system. The CAPS fuel system is known to be a weak fuel system as the factory lift pump only engages for the first 30-45 seconds after the key-switch is engaged. After this, the CAPS pump "pulls" the fuel and acts as the only pump in the system. By adding this heavy duty pump, not only are you taking away a lot of stress on the CAPS pump but you are also providing a steady flow of fuel that will help cool and lubricate the pump to increase the reliability and longevity of the CAPS pump. This adjustable pump is rated at 95 gallons of diesel fuel per hour and come preset at 15 PSI. Using a 1/8" Allen plug, you can make a quick clockwise adjustment to increase pressure or counter clockwise to decrease pressure'.

And what you said about the first 30 sec run... and the instructions you (so graciously) posted.... They seem to be using the factory lift pump wiring to control a relay that powers the new PASS lift pump.... so I would think it will only run when the ECM tells it to (the first 30 sec of ignition key engagement)..... What am I missing or not understanding??

I definitely want to run the system I'm installing full time, not just for 30 sec....

Ken

P.S. I hope I'm not taking you away from your RV project....!

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I’m no electrical engineer by any feat. 
 

The factory “lift/prime” pump has a sensor on the bottom power/sensing to computer.

You install a relay to “trick” the computer into believing the pump is still active, but it is not.

The kit comes all wired, you tap an ignition wire, there is a wire for 12v from the battery and ground. The ignition wire in kit goes to relay, and so when ignition is on, relay sends constant power to FASS pump. Which spits out 15psi. That appears to be the limit the CAPPS main pump likes. 
 

If someone else is more up to speed on the electrical side, chime in. 
 

 

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JD,

Your photos are very helpful, the photo of where you tapped into the fuel system seems to be at the coach mounted (first filter from the fuel tank) filter.

I have a diagram of the Cummins fuel system that shows how the engine returns fuel off of the injector rail to the tank... it does not look like I can tap into that with my FASS return fuel, as it would 'back pressure' the fuel rail... 

All a learning curve... trying to get up to speed..

I may be installing this new FASS pump up in the front near the fuel tank....

Ken 

 

Cummins fuel system.jpg

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So item 2 in the diagram has 2 sides. 
 

The  supply side is what I bypassed. from my FASS it goes straight to secondary filter (item 3) 

The “lift” pump is capped on both ends. The other side which doesn’t show where it goes is the return side of the pump?

 

That’s what I’ve been told as it is intact and works.

 

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Neal,

Did you install the pump with the two filters? or just the lift pump replacement?

This is what my filter looks like in the left hand side area behind the LH tire.  Is this where you put yours?

coach fuel filter by A_C condensor LH rear of tire.jpg

Edited by Cubflyer
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18 hours ago, Cubflyer said:

Neal,

Did you install the pump with the two filters? or just the lift pump replacement?

This is what my filter looks like in the left hand side area behind the LH tire.  Is this where you put yours?

coach fuel filter by A_C condensor LH rear of tire.jpg

Yes I installed the FASS with two filters. I just mounted my FASS on that plate whe n I removed that filter. 

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I installed the FASS pump 15,000 miles ago. Soon after installation, the relay providing power to the pump failed stopping the pump. With the FASS pump inoperative, the engine would barely run. This may have been due to inability of a worn injection pump to suck through the FASS pump and both fuel filters. The injection pump was replaced soon afterwards, so it was on it's last legs when this happened. This was my third injection pump in 120,000 miles. I hope the FASS pump improves longevity.

I have since installed a fuel pressure gauge with the sender placed between my second fuel filter and the injection pump. This allows me to always know that the FASS pump is operating properly and allows monitoring of my fuel filter condition. The gauge I installed was from Isspro, http://isspro.com/products.php?productid=1284. I ordered it with a 50 foot harness and a snubber kit. Since the sender is installed near the injection pump the snubber is needed to filter out pressure pulses. It has a programmable warning light that I set for 5 psi. I also ordered a chrome trim ring so that other than the red pointer it looks like the OEM gauges.

2002 HR Endeavor, ISC 330

 

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Thanks! 
 

Gauge now on todo list. Do you keep a spare relay now?

It is on my list for onboard parts now LOL. 
 

Having only driven the coach with FASS, as it was my first mod, can you explain any differences you noticed? And pics of install as the OP is looking for install ideas 

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4 minutes ago, JDCrow said:

Thanks! 
 

Gauge now on todo list. Do you keep a spare relay now?

It is on my list for onboard parts now LOL. 
 

Having only driven the coach with FASS, as it was my first mod, can you explain any differences you noticed? And pics of install as the OP is looking for install ideas 

The rely failure was unusual, I think it must have had a manufacturing defect. They usually last for years as long as you are not putting more current than their rating through them. I do carry a spare though. 

I notice no difference in driving the coach. The additional cooling and lubrication to the injection pump should hopefully increase it's life. One difference will be seen when changing fuel filters. Before the FASS pump, the lift pump was used after changing filters to prime them before starting the engine for the first time. The lift pump would only stay on for 30 seconds, so you had to turn the ignition switch on and off multiple times to insure that fuel would fill the cartridges. After installing the FASS pump the ignition switch can be turned once and left on until sufficient time has passed to fill the filters.

I'll add pictures of my FASS installation. It's similar to earlier posted pictures.

20210328_075112.jpg

20210328_075130.jpg

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Thanks Neal,

I think BikedaveM and JD installed just the lift pump replacement FASS pump, I'm (and I believe you) installing the pump with filter system that returns fuel to the tank.  I have a "Roadmaster" RR8R chassis, and it is looking like I will be mounting the system in the front near the fuel tank.  But I'm not fully decided or locked into that idea.  My biggest concern is getting the 1/2" hose routed forward thru the chassis to the fuel tank.  If there is a trick or easy way to do that .... I'm listening!

Ken

Edited by Cubflyer
spelling correction
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