Steering pull

[CMillet86]

I just purchased a new to me, 2003 Monaco Dynasty Legacy Tag axle. When we were driving home I noticed a pull to the left. Brought it home and started loading our stuff up. We drove it again this past weekend, and it’s pulling to right extremely hard. To the point if I just let my foot off the brake and let the coach roll the steering wheel will go full lock to the right. Anyone ran into a similar issue?

[John Haggard]

7 minutes ago, CMillet86 said:

I just purchased a new to me, 2003 Monaco Dynasty Legacy Tag axle. When we were driving home I noticed a pull to the left. Brought it home and started loading our stuff up. We drove it again this past weekend, and it’s pulling to right extremely hard. To the point if I just let my foot off the brake and let the coach roll the steering wheel will go full lock to the right. Anyone ran into a similar issue?

Get your rig to a comercial truck alignment center.

They can help you as they have many of us.

You may be dealing with a serious problem. 

[Dr4Film]

Where are U located??

This coach needs to go into a highly reputable chassis shop for a front end inspection.

The only two that I know of are Josam's in Orlando FL and Henderson's in Grants Pass OR.

I consider your coach to be currently unable to drive it safely.

Pulling to the left then pulling to the full lock right, OMG!

[timaz996]

Get your coach corner weighed. You may ride height valves in the back out of adjustment to each other twisting the chassis. They are easy to check and adjust. Guys on here will have the specs for your coach. The picture below is what it should look like. Two in the back by the axel.

 

Tim

[Rick A]

Could even be brake.

Slack adjuster could have locked up. It may just need greasing. In fact all the slack adjusters are probably in need of attention. If you are handy, get a grease gun with the correct grease in it and do some "grease monkeying". Once this is done you can move onto other potential issues. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Rick A

[Fonman]

Maybe even a brake hanging up?

Has it been setting unused?

 

[John Haggard]

7 minutes ago, Fonman said:

Maybe even a brake hanging up?

Has it been setting unused?

 

Get it in to a big rig shop soon.

It's not safe to drive.

Richard mentioned two good shops.

But most big city's have a big rig shop that deals with these issues.

All the above are valid issues.

All semi tractors deal with the same possible issues and most are an easy fix. 

But all creat a safety Hazzard to you and your family.

 

[CMillet86]

We are located in Midwest Ohio. The coach has not been sitting, previous owners took it from Kentucky to Florida in January of this year. They didn’t mention a pull. When we picked it up we drove it 3 hours back and other then the pull to the left it drove fine. The trip this past weekend was only about a half hour and it pulls the right now. The coach doesn’t pull any harder to either direction when on the brakes either. It almost feels like a hydraulic issue in the steering gear box for it to have swapped from a left to right pull like that. When sitting still the wheel wants to turn to the right even. I’m out of town at the moment without the coach but when I get back I’ll be checking things mentioned above. 

[John Haggard]

We take our Simi trucks to 

Frame spring brake service 

And my RVs

5211 walcutt CT

Columbus,   Ohio 

off 70 west. North side, cat service same culdisac. 

Cracker Barrel exit off 70 west.

614 870 2055

Efficient,  knowledgeable,  affordable 

They do busses also.

Jones is another good truck service in Columbus Ohio 

But this is closer to you and I'm more familiar with them.

1 minute ago, John Haggard said:

We take our Simi trucks to 

Frame spring brake service 

And my RVs

5211 walcutt CT

Columbus,   Ohio 

off 70 west. North side, cat service same culdisac. 

Cracker Barrel exit off 70 west.

614 870 2055

Efficient,  knowledgeable,  affordable 

They do busses also.

Jones is another good truck service in Columbus Ohio 

But this is closer to you and I'm more familiar with them.

Make certain that you get your hydraulic fluid and filter changed as a new owner.

[dl_racing427]

15 hours ago, Rick A said:

Could even be brake.

Slack adjuster could have locked up. It may just need greasing. In fact all the slack adjusters are probably in need of attention. If you are handy, get a grease gun with the correct grease in it and do some "grease monkeying". Once this is done you can move onto other potential issues. 

I agree with regular lubrication, but it is easy to over-grease slack adjusters, especially the shaft going through the backing plate.
You don't want to force grease into the brake where it will contaminate the shoes and drum.

But for this problem, I think you need a pro.  Any reputable truck shop should be able to figure it out.

Good luck.

[Guest Ray Davis]

15 hours ago, CMillet86 said:

When sitting still the wheel wants to turn to the right even.

Sounds like a steering gear box problem ( power steering ) doesn't it.    

 

[Tom Cherry]

33 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

Sounds like a steering gear box problem ( power steering ) doesn't it.    

 

it the movement is shifting, then as many pointed out, take it to a truck shop.  Some comments from experience (learned from others) to consider. Van Williams is our chassis guy guru, along with others.

You have the TRW steering box. There is an adjustment for the "play". I installed a Watts Link on mine under Van's watchful eye. He then adjusted my steering box. FWIW, I had about 50K or so. He said mine was marginally adjustable as in it did not need much tweaking. There are YouTubes and also writeups on adjusting the slack.  You want to go VERY slowly and carefully... Wheels should be centered. There is a lock nut and a screwdriver slot. MAY have to spray a little WD-40d to get the nut and the stud loosened up.  MY SAGE (but novice advice and comments)...

IF the condition does not seem "really unsafe...."....then I would do the following...

Pull the Chassis Lube sheet (you can get the PDF of the Owner's Manual and print that page) and get a competent OTR truck shop to lube it properly. You ALSO have a hidden grease fitting inside the cab inside the cowling that covers the steering column....this needs to be lubed!.

When the chassis is lubed, have the shop jack up each side of the front end. Turn the wheels hard right and lube the front end....then hard left and repeat. They can look for any issues, but you want it properly lubed. There is also a "high" fitting near the steering box from the wheel shaft (memory).

ONCE you have it aligned....drive it for a while and notice what is happening. This ASSUMES that the front Tire Pressure is correct.  Look on the plate on the driver's console and inflate (COLD) to maybe 5 PSI below the listed pressure. This is the pressure designed, based on the tires, to give you the proper weight rating to match the axles. 

IF the shop is familiar with how to adjust the TRW steering box, they can check and tweak....if needed.

I can give you insight based on "Barry" the shop manager at Josams in Orlando....one of the premier sites and Lazy Days and all the dealerships send their rigs to him.

He said he has never or only very rarely seen any ball joint issues or need for replacement on a Roadmaster Chassis in over 20+ years of working on them....assuming they had marginal lubrication. SO....do NOT fall victim to any major repairs without a second opinion....Ohio ain't that far from Florida and Josams is the ONLY shop on the east coast that I trust.

Barry's FIX for a pull....SWAP the front tires. That, in 90% of customers complaints, will cure it. THAT assumes that the tires are wearing OK and there are no alignment problems. IF you have a front end alignment done, do NOT depend on the shop. Have the tech or service writer call Josams and get the SPECS and tips....PAY THEM FOR THAT. I had a tire that just "went bad" on a trip to the west coast. All the folks here and my "experts" felt it was the tire and NOT a front end issue. I did have the coach checked for ball joint play and the shop said....hey, they all have a smidge of looseness...but drive on.

I put on TWO new Toyo Tires and have maybe 10K on them. They are WEARING FINE. SO....if the tires LOOK OK from wear...then swap them.

NEXT....while in the shop or having the tires swapped, have the techs check the shock bolts. I can't recall if your shocks are Eye and Eye or Eye and Stud. The top Stud seems to work loose. IF you have a loose shock, that MIGHT be the cause....but folks have experimented and driven without shocks. BUT, you DO need the shocks TIGHT and that is something that happens....

That is about it....good luck...

[Guest Ray Davis]

17 hours ago, CMillet86 said:

When sitting still the wheel wants to turn to the right even.

All good stuff but I'm thinking the only thing that's going to make it pull to the right while sitting still is hydraulic force, ---- right.  

I'm not sure he wants to drive it anywhere,  not knowing how or which way it might decide to pull next,   he is the only one that knows how severe the pull is.

Fred White ( RIP ) warned us many times about contaminates in hydraulic systems.  I believe that Fred was a specialist in submarine hydraulics and it ran him crazy when  people would use thread sealing tape on hydraulic fittings.

If it was my coach I would drain all the hydraulic ( power steering ) oil,  remove the filters and back flush the steering box then the entire system.                                          Hopefully that would eliminate the problem.      I would still drive with both hands and my foot ready for quite a while  

[Dr4Film]

I wouldn't drive it at all. I would have my ERS tow it to a reputable truck service center to have the entire front end evaluated. Then make sensible decision based on what they find.

[vanwill52]

It certainly sounds like a fault in the steering gear, but I have no knowledge of any case similar to yours.  Knowing how the internals of the steering gear work, I can only imagine the torque bar that actuates the hydraulic assist has somehow come loose from its actuator shaft, but I can't imagine how that could happen.

Check to see that you do not have one of the hydraulic steering dampers installed.  They are heavily spring-loaded to center.  If the clamp on the end that attaches to the relay rod is loose, it might slip to one direction or the other, then get another "bite" in that location.  When those devices are even slightly misadjusted from center, they cause a great pull in one direction or the other.

I agree with others that if you can't find some obvious reason for your problem from a visual inspection, take it to any heavy truck repair shop.  I think your problem is likely to be quickly diagnosed.

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

[Tom Cherry]

54 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

All good stuff but I'm thinking the only thing that's going to make it pull to the right while sitting still is hydraulic force, ---- right.  

I'm not sure he wants to drive it anywhere,  not knowing how or which way it might decide to pull next,   he is the only one that knows how severe the pull is.

Fred White ( RIP ) warned us many times about contaminates in hydraulic systems.  I believe that Fred was a specialist in submarine hydraulics and it ran him crazy when  people would use thread sealing tape on hydraulic fittings.

If it was my coach I would drain all the hydraulic ( power steering ) oil,  remove the filters and back flush the steering box then the entire system.                                          Hopefully that would eliminate the problem.      I would still drive with both hands and my foot ready for quite a while  

What each of us perceives as safe versus questionable is a gut feel.  IF the MH is no worse than what he drove (sounded like several hours), then HE has to decide....so I won't comment on that.

BUT>>>>>

IF he feels comfortable doing the flushing and draining, then my recommendation comes DIRECTLY from the Service and Tech Support at TRW.

FIRST....he needs to identify WHAT type of fluid he has. DO NOT DEPEND on the manuals. Take a sample (use a screwdriver or a clean cloth). Drip or squeeze on a piece of white paper. IF the fluid is STRAW COLORED or YELLOWISH, then he had a "we run out of ATF" MH when it came down the line. ODDS are that he has Hydraulic Fluid...as Monaco switched to ATF, I think, a little later...but you NEVER KNOW....someone could have switched also. IF the fluid is REDISH....BINGO....ATF.  NOW why...

Long story....short version. SOME of the Hydraulic Fluids would get moisture or would FREEZE.. We have had folks that had that happen and it is NOT a pretty site. Typically, they will lose or burst a section of the "radiator" that cools the hydraulic....PAIN AND AGONY ON ME...

OK...IF, HOPEFULLY, it is ATF, then TRW told me to refill with Transynd. Allison sells that and there is an SAE Spec for it. Transynd  or the SAE equivalent MUST bge used in the Allison tranny. They (TRW) SWITCHED from Regular ATF to Transynd on their Long Range or High Mileage warranties. The tech that I talked to said that TRW was going to run this long and drawn out experiment to see if they could develop their own oil or what would reduce their warranty costs as well as provide their customers with a longer life. SOME of the TRW Engineers had worked at Allison and piped up. GO TO TRANSYND (SAE Equivalent)....Allison spent a fortune and they were bigger and had more "tech and testing support". The consensus was that it would be a waste of money to repeat that. They did and almost immediately, their warranty costs came down and there were less issues due to lubrication failures.

SO....I have changed my filters and also done TWO "replenishments" where I pumped out the 2 gallon reservoir and put back in Transynd. Here is a GREAT product that I would use again....

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for-businesses/heavy-duty-lubricants/products/mobil-delvac-1-atf/

If there was less than 20% difference in costs....go with the Allison....otherwise use the Movil Delvac. I use the Delvac synthetic gear oil for the rear end and many also here do.

NOW....IF, and this is INFO for those not familiar....  The Dynasty MOST likely has a 5 Gallon reservoir. There are THREE stacked filters in the reservoir and MAYBE a spin on (Zinga was what Monaco used) filter. IF he drains and bleeds down the system, I would NOT go back with the Texaco Rando HD 46 fluid. You can buy an equivalent...  I looked at the 2002 and 2004 (Monaco site does NOT have the 2003) Manual. REALLY good writeup on the hydraulic system. I would download BOTH and read....they changed the descriptions....the 2002 was really informative but there were some pertinent figures in 2004. GREAT lube charts and diagrams and info...NOW...it gets fuzzy. The Dynasties were SUPPOSED to have (according the discussions here) a 5 gallon tank. Mine is a 2 gallon tank. My total system is listed at 35 Quarts and SO IS THE Dynasty (2002 and 2004). There are great instructions for changing the 3 stack Nelson system... We have NOT had, to my knowledge, anyone switch so the total amount needed is an unknown....

FOLKS have blended the two....(ATF and Hydraulic).

Now...YES....Fred White did talk about Hydraulic contamination and he was our resident expert. BUT, typically, that was on the Slide and Genny Slide system and it was MONACO's sloppy workmanship.  They used Teflon Tape on the entire valve manifold and that stopped up the small orifice reversing valves. I do NOT recall anyone having an issue with the Power Steering and Cooling Fan systems due to contamination. There have been pump and motor issues, but mainly from age.

SO...I don't know. It would require breaking a line and installing a gage to determine if there was adequate pressure. IF there was low pressure, then my GUT feel is that the Cooling system would not be working properly as the fans that cool or blow through the side radiator would be an issue and you would see the Engine and Tranny temps elevated... JUST SOME THOUGHTS....again the final decision is up to the owner..

My take...and no offense intended for others with differing advice or opinions....

[Guest Ray Davis]

20 minutes ago, vanwill52 said:

It certainly sounds like a fault in the steering gear, but I have no knowledge of any case similar to yours.  Knowing how the internals of the steering gear work, I can only imagine the torque bar that actuates the hydraulic assist has somehow come loose from its actuator shaft, but I can't imagine how that could happen.

Check to see that you do not have one of the hydraulic steering dampers installed.  They are heavily spring-loaded to center.  If the clamp on the end that attaches to the relay rod is loose, it might slip to one direction or the other, then get another "bite" in that location.  When those devices are even slightly misadjusted from center, they cause a great pull in one direction or the other.

I agree with others that if you can't find some obvious reason for your problem from a visual inspection, take it to any heavy truck repair shop.  I think your problem is likely to be quickly diagnosed.

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

Van is right the first and easiest is to see if it has a damper then look for problems there.   It might look something like this. 

One other thing,  when it pulls sitting still does the engine need to be running or do you still feel the pull with the engine off?

spring

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Ray Davis

[CMillet86]

1 hour ago, Ray Davis said:

Van is right the first and easiest is to see if it has a damper then look for problems there.   It might look something like this. 

One other thing,  when it pulls sitting still does the engine need to be running or do you still feel the pull with the engine off?

spring

 

Ive only noticed it with the engine running but I will check it without it running when I get back from the Keys. 

[David White]

Van is onto a good point with regard to the steering damper.  I say this from experience, since I had a clamp to loosen and it definitely throws off the steering pressure and position. Check to see if you have one!!

In my case, I failed to stop and check what was happening. One of the u-bolt clamps took a Big slide, and suddenly I was locked in one direction and could not steer.  Luckily I was starting to stop and not on the highway or it would have been deadly.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, David White said:

Van is onto a good point with regard to the steering damper.  I say this from experience, since I had a clamp to loosen and it definitely throws off the steering pressure and position. Check to see if you have one!!

In my case, I failed to stop and check what was happening. One of the u-bolt clamps took a Big slide, and suddenly I was locked in one direction and could not steer.  Luckily I was starting to stop and not on the highway or it would have been deadly.

Great POINTS.  My steering damper is a Blue Ox TruCenter. Did a little digging....it has been discontinued. The Tru Center has a "button" that you hold in, when going straight...for a few second. There is a solenoid that "CENTERS" the wheel. SO, look for what type it is, IF you have one. Safe-T-Plus also makes one and there is a front end shop in Oregon (Hendersons?) that makes a sells a "Trimming" or solenoid adjustment for it...

The OTHER type (no adjustment or buttons) have to be carefully setup to keep the wheels going straight. A LOOSE clamp or improper mounting could also react exactly as Ray and Van pointed out.

Since we don't have a feel for HOW BAD it is pulling, then you are going to have to play it by ear....but beware of any shop that starts spouting technical jargon and costs in the thousands. The Roadmaster chassis front end is a BEAST and you would really have to do something horrible to damage it....but the pulling can be many things....like swapping a tire....OR it could be something is loose and any good, reputable shop can repair.

BTW....I Noticed that the 2002 and 2004 Owners Manuals have the front end specs....WONDERFUL...

Good luck....keep us informed....we all learn...

[David White]

Tom, mine too was a TruCenter, which is likely the reason I did not notice and had the false feeling that all was ok, but it had a loose bracket. I could adjust, but when it took a big move, and locked in that position, I was could not turn the wheel. 

[Tom Cherry]

15 hours ago, David White said:

Tom, mine too was a TruCenter, which is likely the reason I did not notice and had the false feeling that all was ok, but it had a loose bracket. I could adjust, but when it took a big move, and locked in that position, I was could not turn the wheel. 

Thanks....gonna be checked also....I had mine loctited on....but you never can tell.

Better safe than sorry...

[John Haggard]

2 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Thanks....gonna be checked also....I had mine loctited on....but you never can tell.

Better safe than sorry...

JoSams disconnected my true Center 12 volt controller. 

After moving the bracket 1 inch.

During the last alignment visit in February. 

Said that I would be better off.

It drives fine 🙂

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, John Haggard said:

JoSams disconnected my true Center 12 volt controller. 

After moving the bracket 1 inch.

During the last alignment visit in February. 

Said that I would be better off.

It drives fine 🙂

 

 

No doubt. David Pratt and I had them before we added a front Watts Link.

The Tru Center would not do all that it was "touted" to do....but there was a difference when installed.  Then I added a front Source Engineering Sway bar and some beefy shocks. The Tru Center actually worked better and the need to adjust it went down. You STILL have to, in some windy conditions or on a sloped highway, steer off center a smidge and then center.  Overcompensate....to get the desired results.

BUT, when we added the Watts link, it was really impressive. Dave and I both said we rarely used the centering.

When I added the stabilizer I talked to Barry (Josams) and Brett Howard (former manager of the FL-Wildwood) Monaco Warranty center.

Barry did not like the Tru Center....and he said it was because his guys were not electricians and he like the other brand... Safe-T or whatever.

Brett said that he knew the Blue Ox Tru Center Guru and that he felt it was superior as you NEEDED to be able to trim of adjust any stabilizer. The old one that folks raved about had a tracking adjustment.  Brett said he had driven a LOT of Monaco's and he would put on the Tru Center....so I did.

I will check it....thanks....

[Dr4Film]

The only trim adjusting steering stabilizer on the market today is the Safety Steer with the Henderson Trim added to it installed by Henderson's in Grants Pass OR.

I believe they may be a better product than the now defunct TruCenter Steering Stabilizer.