Inverter Saga Help needed.

[Guest Jester1]

I made rookie mistake and plugged our new to us 2000 Dynasty into a 30amp 220 outlet behind my shop. I just finished building our home and shop and was sure the outlet was 50amp. Well I guess my memory was short of what breaker I put in.🙄

With that said, I was running both ac’s while redoing the floors and one shut off. This is where I realized my mistake when I heard the transfer switch wigging out and shut everything down. I rectified my mistake and put a 50amp breaker in and this is where my problem starts. The Trace Rv2012 stopped charging the batteries and I lost 110v in the rv. Soo.. I ponied up and bought a new Progressive Dynamics pd62v transfer switch, which pretty much was a direct replacement. Next, Installation was a magnum 2012 inverter. All pretty much without difficulty . 

Soo… This is where I’m looking for help. When I power up anything ac power related all is good for a few minutes and than the inverter kicks in shutting of the two 110 legs. I get a “High AC” fault message on the controller. 

When I disconnect the inverter and provide 120v from my shop to each sub panel legs all is fine aka “Hardwire”. Everything works in the coach. I’ll also add that when the legs are going through the inverter I have 119v prior to turning anything on in the sub panel. I have checked all hots and neutrals for continuity and haven’t found a fault.

I’m at a total loss

Any input would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

[Ivylog]

I’m confused…”I rectified my mistake and put a 50amp breaker in” is the outlet a 4 prong outlet?

[Guest Jester1]

Yes, when I built my shop I had put a 30amp breaker outside with plans to put my compressor out there and never did.

It is now a 50 amp 4 prong 

[jacwjames]

X2, a 30 amp 220 amp is a 3 prong outlet, which doesn't have a neutral.  If you just put a 50 amp breaker it didn't solve the problem.  Also, is the wire a 6 awg for 50 amp.  30 amp may have had a 10 awg wire.  Not good if you used the same wire, could overload the circuit.

[Guest Jester1]

Jim,

 It was and is a 4 prong. I had derated to a 30 amp at end of construction for placement of compressor outside. All 220 in our home and shop is 6 gauge. Prior to the replacement of the transfer switch and inverter the 50amp 4 prong was in place.

Just can’t figure out why I have correct ac voltage on all circuits until the inverter shuts it down. 

[waterskier_1]

Without seeing exactly how it was wired, I can't say for sure what might have been damaged.  Regarding the last mentioned problem - you inverter - if I understand what you are saying, the inverter of the power panel is wired incorrectly.  Neither A/C should be wired through the inverter.  In fact, you should be able to cut the circuit breaker for the inverter input and it should not effect either A/C operation.  If you could post a diagram of how your garage outlet & breaker are wired, along with any adapters you made or used, I might be able to help. 

[Dr4Film]

VERY confusing post as to EXACTLY what took place and happened.

30 amp versus 50 amp, plug configuration, whether adapters were used, etc.

However, I guess you must have missed reading the hundreds of posts from members who have STRONGLY recommended installing either a Progressive Industries EMS protection device or a Southwire SurgeGuard EMS protection device prior to your transfer switch AND Inverter which would have detected the incorrect wiring and bad power protecting all of your coach from electrical damage,

If you had you wouldn't be having this problem or conversation.

Just realized that you are a fairly new member (apologies) therefore you most likely wouldn't have read previous posts about the devices I described above. However, I would highly recommend once you get your electrical problem straightened out to invest in one of those devices listed above so you won't have the same problem again.

The coach can handle 4 wire 240 VAC (2-120 VAC Loads, a neutral and a ground) but it cannot handle 3 wire 220 VAC using adapter.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Dr4Film
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[Nevada Rob]

Let me start out by saying that I am not a professional licensed electrician, but a played on on TV once. I do have a degree from You Tube University on electrical stuff. From the original post it sound like it is possible that two 110 volt lines were sent down a plug that is only to have one 110 volt line. A 30amp RV plug has 1 - 110 Volt leg, 1 common leg, one ground leg. If the original outlet had 4 wires, (red, black, are hot, white common and green ground) and when switched to a 30 amp plug configuration with the red and black used then the common leg was energized. Since most RV's are not a bonded ground system then the direct short to ground would not occur. To the best of my knowledge there are no 220 volt/30amp 3 post RV plug. I do have 220 volt / 20 amp 3 post outlets in my shop that run machines. These are completely different types of plug/outlet. I may be way off base but this sounded really good in my head. I wish the best for your coach and search on getting it squared away.

[MrAmbassador]

I agree with Rick (drawings), it is best to start at the power source. Does this plug in source have a 50 Amp breaker (each hot wire should come from different legs on the power panel)? If so, do the two hots coming out of it go to the plug in question? If so, Use a volt meter to check that the two female stabs on the left and right each have 120Vs with the black voltmeter  wire is touching the ground or common female stabs. This should tell you if it is connected properly. If it is then on to the Coach. And yes as Richard mentioned  it is worth investing in a EMS protection device. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by MrAmbassador

[CRY1942]

For me, a picture is worth a bunch of words.

[Guest Jester1]

Update,

 So after much troubleshooting, I had a ac compressor that was going bad and was pulling so much amperage (38 amps measured) the new magnum inverter would shunt from pass through to inverter mode before tripping a breaker. Once I deleted the inverter and connected both legs together the coach front AC breaker tripped when connected to shore power. The inverter saw high amperage and self protects per Magnum Tech.

Anyhow, thank you for those that had helpful input. Much appreciated 

[waterskier_1]

49 minutes ago, Jester1 said:

Update,

 So after much troubleshooting, I had a ac compressor that was going bad and was pulling so ch amperage (38 amps measured) the new magnum inverter would shunt from pass through to inverter mode before tripping a breaker. Once I deleted the inverter and connected both legs together the coach front AC breaker tripped when connected to shore power. The inverter saw high amperage and self protects per Magnum Tech.

Anyhow, thank you for those that had helpful input. Much appreciated 

Are you saying someone wired a roof A/C through the inverter?  Was this done in an attempt to run that A/C off the inverter & batteries? 

[Guest Jester1]

Waterskier,

That is a no.

 Bare with me…

Shore power goes to transfer switch

Transfers to main panel. 
50 amp breaker feeds to two 110 Romex to inverter, through inverter to sub panel. This is and was factory wired.

After extensive consult with Magnum Tech a excessive amp draw above 30 is seen as a ground or neutral fault. Self protection.

Soo.. the two 110 legs are designed to go through the inverter when shore line is used. Since the Ac high amp draw is sensed as a open neutral or ground fault it self protects. 
 

As factory wired it will run AC off of batteries/inverter. Do to the bathroom 110 outlet and Ac are on the same leg.

Mark with Mark Snyder electric (look up his website) explained the same concept as the Magnum Tech. Mark also stated older coach builders would wire in this fashion. Most have changed this method I guess. 

I decided to have our Trace Rv2012 sent for repair and re install after the Ac or Ac units are replaced. Original units. Yes I have replaced the condensers but there is to much draw on the front unit.

Thanks too all that had helpful feedback

 

 

 

[Nevada Rob]

Great and well written explanation. Thank you for the update and sharing the info.

[waterskier_1]

11 hours ago, Jester1 said:

Waterskier,

That is a no.

 Bare with me…

Shore power goes to transfer switch

Transfers to main panel. 
50 amp breaker feeds to two 110 Romex to inverter, through inverter to sub panel. This is and was factory wired.

After extensive consult with Magnum Tech a excessive amp draw above 30 is seen as a ground or neutral fault. Self protection.

Soo.. the two 110 legs are designed to go through the inverter when shore line is used. Since the Ac high amp draw is sensed as a open neutral or ground fault it self protects. 
 

As factory wired it will run AC off of batteries/inverter. Do to the bathroom 110 outlet and Ac are on the same leg.

Mark with Mark Snyder electric (look up his website) explained the same concept as the Magnum Tech. Mark also stated older coach builders would wire in this fashion. Most have changed this method I guess. 

I decided to have our Trace Rv2012 sent for repair and re install after the Ac or Ac units are replaced. Original units. Yes I have replaced the condensers but there is to much draw on the front unit.

Thanks too all that had helpful feedback

 

 

 

I don't have a 2000 Dynasty wiring diagram, but do have one for the 2001 Dynasty.  It I am attaching a copy of it here.  No A/C is wired through the Inverter.  I'm not aware of any Monaco Coach that has A/C running through the Inverter.  If indeed yours is, it was rewired by someone after the factory.  I do understand the potential problems of high current and the inverter auto-shutdown feature.  I can't see how you could ever have over 30 Amps on the neutral, without first popping either the Main Breaker Panel Inverter 30 Amp breaker(s) or the Subpanel Inverter Input 30 Amp breaker(s).

Do you have a wiring diagram showing the current configuration that you could post?

 

2001 Dynasty Inverter.pdf

[Guest Jester1]

I do not. I requested one from Monaco and they have not returned the email request

[Nevada Rob]

9 minutes ago, Jester1 said:

I do not. I requested one from Monaco and they have not returned the email request

Don't hold your breath waiting on Monaco to return any email. I have sent them 3 emails over the last 5 weeks on various questions. No response of any type. Customer service has been pretty much eliminated by most large corporations. Not all but most large companies don't want the older products on the road.

[Guest Jester1]

Rick,

 Thanks for the diagram. Yes mine is the same. I guess I haven’t clearly conveyed  that the excessive load seen bye the inverter causes it to shunt. That load is seen via fault that is going to ground or a neutral leg. Since all neutrals and grounds are tied together a fault is seen by the inverter. So yes I have a short either in my ac or bath leg. Been at work the last week and will physically find it when I get home. But so far the amp meter points to ac compressor. I’ll update once 100%

[waterskier_1]

You will not be getting any wiring diagrams from REV.  MAGNUM doesn't provide schematics or detailed theory of operation.  I was not even aware that they were sensing anything on the neutral as far as current/ voltage is concerned.  Since the A/C is not connected to the inverter directly, there is no way to directly measure neutral current.  They could measure the voltage difference between neutral and ground and draw some inferences.  But to have an appreciable voltage drop Wirth 30 Amps you'd need undersized wire, or miles of it.  And, if that was there your Electrical Management System,  i.e. Progressive Surge Protector, would shut the system down because it does sense neutral current.  You do have an EMS?  I'm now wondering, given that the inverter is shutting down due to current, if maybe the shore power can't supply tree required current without dropping voltage (i.e., a brown out situation).  This is more likely at RV Parks versus home connections or generator power.  What happens is the park system can't supply the required power demand, especially in the heat when everyone is running all their A/Cs so the voltage drops.  I'm pretty sure Magnum souks be monitoring incoming voltage, and if just one leg (very likely) were to drop enough, the inverter would shut down.  You could check this by running on your generator since it won't be affected by other power demands outside the coach.  If all runs fine on generator, I think we Maddy have zeroed in on the problem.  If it doesn't run fine on the generator, then you have also confirmed the problem is inside your coach.  Hope this helps.