Replaced Big Boy with Bkue Sea ML ACR

[bmulvenna@hotmail.com]

Replaced the Big Boy with Blue Sea ML ACR. 

Also eliminated the sales switch.

Battery boost now provided by the new ML ACR.

Need to run the wires so that I can connect the Generator switch and the Ignition Switch to the remote ACR switch. This will provide engine Isolation so that the generator can run while the coach is running. 

Any reason not to completely remove the 2 solenoids and the intellitec circuit board that controlled the Big Boy and sales switch?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Romeo84]

Oh boy!? I just bought this for my coach! Any thoughts advice for the install? Planning on doing it in a couple weeks. 

[JDCrow]

I just did away with the bird big boy all together. Went with lithium house batteries and DC/DC charger. I left the intellitec plugged in. It still works inside. I’m with you on the importance of it now and if I’m causing issues that I don’t know about. 

I cannot run my gen with engine running, coach shuts down, inverter freaks out.

Edited April 4, 2022 by JDCrow

[Bjohnsonmn]

I am going with the MultiPlus II 3K 2x120 model and LiFePO4 batteries. I'm also using a DC-DC charger to keep the house batteries topped up while driving (the Smart DC-DC charger has alternator sense settings that function similar to how the B/IRD/Solenoid works in terms of not burning out the alternator, but with amperage limiting capabilities.)
To keep my chassis toped up, I am using the 4amp trickle charge port on the MP II that is specifically made for Starter Batteries. Although someone claimed that the MPII cannot charge a starter battery and LiFePO4 batteries, all documentation I see indicates that it is specifically made for this use case.

For boosting or jumping scenarios, I will use the $99 booster pack that I picked up at Costco that provides 1200 cranking amps. Looking at the chart in the Cummins manual, only a 100% charged battery will provide the full 1280CCA that is listed. It drops well below the 1200 mark that the battery pack is rated for quickly as the battery discharges. Plus, unless the battery is completely dead, it won't be required to provide the full ~1200CCA to start the rig. If it is, I need a new battery and a jump really only gets the engine running on a dead battery. (We have a TOAD, so running to the store for a new 8D starter battery is easy to do).

I plan to drastically simplify the switch bay that is at the passenger rear of my coach (2000 Windsor 32PB). I'll be able to repurpose the boost switch for just about anything else I can think of that I would want momentary control over in the rear of the coach.

[JDCrow]

5 minutes ago, Bjohnsonmn said:

I am going with the MultiPlus II 3K 2x120 model and LiFePO4 batteries. I'm also using a DC-DC charger to keep the house batteries topped up while driving (the Smart DC-DC charger has alternator sense settings that function similar to how the B/IRD/Solenoid works in terms of not burning out the alternator, but with amperage limiting capabilities.)
To keep my chassis toped up, I am using the 4amp trickle charge port on the MP II that is specifically made for Starter Batteries. Although someone claimed that the MPII cannot charge a starter battery and LiFePO4 batteries, all documentation I see indicates that it is specifically made for this use case.

For boosting or jumping scenarios, I will use the $99 booster pack that I picked up at Costco that provides 1200 cranking amps. Looking at the chart in the Cummins manual, only a 100% charged battery will provide the full 1280CCA that is listed. It drops well below the 1200 mark that the battery pack is rated for quickly as the battery discharges. Plus, unless the battery is completely dead, it won't be required to provide the full ~1200CCA to start the rig. If it is, I need a new battery and a jump really only gets the engine running on a dead battery. (We have a TOAD, so running to the store for a new 8D starter battery is easy to do).

I plan to drastically simplify the switch bay that is at the passenger rear of my coach (2000 Windsor 32PB). I'll be able to repurpose the boost switch for just about anything else I can think of that I would want momentary control over in the rear of the coach.

I have the exact same set up. It works great till I run the generator and engine at the same time. 
 

I have not ran a wire for the 4 amp trickle to the engine batteries as it sparked when I tried  ,with everything off it sparked. I did the set up myself but maybe taking it to the Victron Rep for a look to see if I have missed something 

[Bjohnsonmn]

Do you have any possible connection between the house 12v and the chassis 12v? As far as I am aware, the generator only produces 240v power dumped through the automatic transfer switch. What happens if you start the engine while on shore power?

[bmulvenna@hotmail.com]

39 minutes ago, Romeo84 said:

Oh boy!? I just bought this for my coach! Any thoughts advice for the install? Planning on doing it in a couple weeks. 

Make sure to unplug from shore power and turn off all battery disconnects.

You will probably need to remake the copper bar connectors. I bought a copper bar from McMaster Carr and fabricated them.

 

 

[JDCrow]

2 minutes ago, Bjohnsonmn said:

Do you have any possible connection between the house 12v and the chassis 12v? As far as I am aware, the generator only produces 240v power dumped through the automatic transfer switch. What happens if you start the engine while on shore power?

No connections. The house lithium go straight to the MP2 and the 240 comes from the transfer switch. The Gen start is on the the chassis batteries 

I believe I can start the coach while plugged in. I’ll be back by it today and can try. 
 

I’ve discussed this in another thread that the MP2 shuts off from a “Ripple” when Gen and Engine are on together. I think that the DC/DC charger and MP2 are feeding the lithium house batteries at the same time and freaks it all out. I have not tried shutting off the DC/DC charger while Gen is on and driving yet to test my Theory. 

[bmulvenna@hotmail.com]

11 minutes ago, Bjohnsonmn said:

Do you have any possible connection between the house 12v and the chassis 12v? As far as I am aware, the generator only produces 240v power dumped through the automatic transfer switch. What happens if you start the engine while on shore power?

Not sure what you mean.

I am isolating the generator and engine so that the batteries don't charge from 2 different sources. The alternator and the inverter/charger.

When the ml acr sees both sources it will isolate the 2 sets of batteries.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by bmulvenna@hotmail.com
Spelling

[Bjohnsonmn]

1 hour ago, bmulvenna@hotmail.com said:

Not sure what you mean.

I am isolating the generator and engine so that the batteries don't charge from 2 different sources. The alternator and the inverter/charger.

When the ml acr sees both sources it will isolate the 2 sets of batteries.

 

Sorry, that was a reply for the comment above mine.

[JDCrow]

1 hour ago, bmulvenna@hotmail.com said:

Not sure what you mean.

I am isolating the generator and engine so that the batteries don't charge from 2 different sources. The alternator and the inverter/charger.

When the ml acr sees both sources it will isolate the 2 sets of batteries.

 

Not sure the Blue seas will let you run lithium? 

[bmulvenna@hotmail.com]

Tanks but I dont plan on changing the good old wet cells.keep ours for 4 to 5 years with proper maintenance.

[Grampy OG]

A couple of quick pictures as I was asked to show what I did for the ML-ACR

Above was the original setup ala '03 Monaco Technology

I removed the Lambert battery maintainer, the relay for tying the batteries together and the battery isolator. The above items can be $200 or more each on failure. My Lambert did fail. 

The above is not my final cleaned up wiring ( I still need a new picture ) but it shows the ML-ACR as installed. It works great for me. I have not connected the engine or generator sensing wires. I leave the batteries tied together with the dash switch. If the engine is running and I am on shore power or if I am running the generator I simply flip the switch in the cockpit to disconnect the two charging systems. Works great. Worse case yank the ACR and replace in minutes rather than the convoluted mess of 2003. 

I replace the original switch on the dash for connecting the battery banks with the above ML-ACR switch provided with the relay. 

A side benefit of all this is that I understand if my digital alternator was to die on me I can use a fairly standard off the shelf alternator as it's replacement. 

Kudos to pwhittle and a couple of other members for helping me through this. 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Grampy OG

[JDCrow]

Looks nice and tidy. Great job 👏 

Edited April 5, 2022 by JDCrow

[W7BE_Bob]

There is no need to isolate the 2 flooded battery banks from multiple chargers (alternator and gen/charger) as the higher DC voltage one will dominate. Flooded and AGM are close enough also. Lithium not so much.

I actually have 3 sources that includes solar.

10K Onan gens and up do have 120/240V output but the charger or charger/inverter uses 120V and not 240V since that is not available on 20A or 30A pedestals.

[jacwjames]

I installed the Bluesea ML-ACR last year, as someone said "It just works".   I removed the Lambert, BIRD, and isolation solenoid.  The Bluesea fit where the isolation solenoid was so it freed up quite a bit of realestate in the a joining compartment. 

I did wire in the generator and start sense but have not used them (I left the fuses out of the holders) and  waiting to see how the system worked as is.  I figure if there is an issue I can just isolate the battery banks from the dash switch. 

[granvillebarker]

I understand people with the diode packs switch to the ML-ACR, but why are you guys with the Big Boy and bird switching as its essentially the same thing just in a smaller package.

 

—

Granville Barker

05 Dynasty

[jacwjames]

9 minutes ago, granvillebarker said:

I understand people with the diode packs switch to the ML-ACR, but why are you guys with the Big Boy and bird switching as its essentially the same thing just in a smaller package.

 

—

Granville Barker

05 Dynasty

Not sure what was going on with mine.  I had owned my coach for +12 years and up until last year I had never heard the Lambert 415 maintainer "click".  All of a sudden last year while working on the coach I started to hear a random clicking, sometimes more frequent then others.  Finally took the time to investigate and it was the Lambert.  I went through the troubleshooting guide and it tested that it was working properly but the clicking continued and when I checked my chassis batteries they tested ~12.5 volts, not really fully charged but I was able to start my coach without a problem. 

After looking at options it seemed like the Bluesea was a viable option.  The install of the ACR was easy, installing the switch in the front dash was actually more time consuming. 

[Bob Blackmon]

24 minutes ago, granvillebarker said:

I understand people with the diode packs switch to the ML-ACR, but why are you guys with the Big Boy and bird switching as its essentially the same thing just in a smaller package.

 

—

Granville Barker

05 Dynasty

I never once had a problem with the Intellitec BIRD or the Big Boy. But by golly I knew someday I would!🙃

[Guest Ray Davis]

When I started having charging problems with the BIRD (what a mess).  I remembered reading a thread on IRV2 by Van Williams and some others about their conversion to a Blue Seas ML-ACR.  IMHO it is the logical way to repair, easy peasy, except for running wires to the front for the switch.  The driver's switch is not mandatory as there is a switch on top of the unit, but you would have to go outside to operate it.   I would definitely do it again, thanks to Van.

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Ray Davis

[W7BE_Bob]

Blue Seas produces quality products vs whatever a mfg uses for the warranty period...

[veraken]

Does anybody have a wiring diagram showing how the wires from the BIRD were rerouted to the new ML-ACR ?  

[bmulvenna@hotmail.com]

8 hours ago, veraken said:

Does anybody have a wiring diagram showing how the wires from the BIRD were rerouted to the new ML-ACR ?  

Nothing from the bird connects to the ml acr

Only the two large  cables that were connected to the bottom of Big Boy get connected to the ml acr. You will probably gave to fabricate new copper bar connectors. 

I eliminated the Bird  the 2 solenoids and the two relays. 

If you are going to use the remote switch you can make use of the cables that are connected to your existing boost switch.

See my pictures above.

 

[veraken]

1 hour ago, bmulvenna@hotmail.com said:

Nothing from the bird connects to the ml acr

Only the two large  cables that were connected to the bottom of Big Boy get connected to the ml acr. You will probably gave to fabricate new copper bar connectors. 

I eliminated the Bird  the 2 solenoids and the two relays. 

If you are going to use the remote switch you can make use of the cables that are connected to your existing boost switch.

See my pictures above.

 

Where do the wires on the BIRD for the Genset, Ignition, Coach Bat, Solenoid, and Ground get connected to when installing the ML-ACR  

[jacwjames]

The ML-ACR has a pig tail of wires coming out of it.  A couple of the wires are for the switch, and there are a couple that you can use that will disable the ML-ACR if the generator is running and/or disable it for a couple minutes while starting the rig. 

There are two versions of the ML-ACR, one with and one without the switch.    The one with the switch has a decent wiring schematic on how to wire it.