High Inner Drive Tire Temp

[Tom Cherry]

55 minutes ago, Mocephus said:

Tom, thanks for the great explanation of what's going on with tire temps and pressure! That made for some very excellent and insightful reading!

I have the TST TPMS and the factory default setting for the temp alarm on it is 158 F. I've had the system on the tires from the day we purchased the rig (3 years ago) and have never had a high temp alarm before and have driven tens of thousands of miles with ambient temps exceeding 100 F, and pulling and stopping while towing a Chevy Suburban, on all types of grade. So, after being on the road for 5 hrs before the high temp alarm first sounded on the PS inner drive tire, on pretty much flat level ground, with ambient temperature around 80 F, and then about 10 minutes later alarming on the DS inner drive tire, it caused me to wonder what had changed to cause the temps to get high enough to trigger the alarms.

My first thoughts were either the brakes were dragging or maybe the bearings had gone bad (I'll be checking for leaks later). I'm trying to remember but I think the tire pressure on those two tires was around 135 PSI at the time the alarms sounded but I may be way off on that. I was in heavy stop and go traffic at the time and could only briefly glance at the monitor as I was driving. I run the drive tires at a cold pressure of 100 PSI.

So, to me....something unusual happened to cause the high temp alarms to activate. My first thoughts went to the brakes dragging and then to possible bearing failure. Any other causes that I could be missing or anything that you know of that I could look for in trying to diagnose the cause?

I'll have my co-pilot take a photo of the display if it happens when we get back on the road later this week so I'll have better data.

 

 

 

Hi Paul! Yes, I've been using it for 3 years and I like it a lot!

OK....that is interesting. I briefly talked to Frank on some other issues and we discussed it.  I do NOT have a Tag. But, my experience with three different brands of tires and some 65K and always having a PressurePro system...and now the new unit is that your 35 PSI Delta P is the indication of a serious  underlying problem.

I have some data....really old, and for Bridgestones....but this is the the gist of it....

Front - about 13% increase.  Ambient of 65 in the early AM & CIP (Cold Inflated Pressure) of 115.  I expect to see them running around 130 PSI.  Sometimes lower or higher...but never a 35% increase. My fronts, due to my fresh water and diesel tank use up almost 90% of the front axle capacity.  Axle is 13K rated

Rear - OUTERS - about 14/15%.  CIP of 100 and running of 114/15 or so. AGAIN...I have a NON TAG.  My Axle is the oddball 23K that Monaco used.

Rear - INNERS - About 16/17%.  This is from the days where both were set the same....so might see 116/17.

I don't know what your ambient was when you set the CIP.  If I guess 65 Def F, then if you go from 100 PSI to 135 PSI, the internal tire temp goes OFF SCALE...when I use my spreadsheet. The "Calculated" internal tire pressure, using the SmarTire data would be way over 200 deg F...and dangerous.  NOW, that is all theoretical. 

BUT, I can tell you based on knowing and recording my CIP and watching the monitor and Frank's is in the same ball park, I think, we NEVER see a 35% INCREASE in any TIRE.  YES, my inners will go higher....but never approach 20%....Frank may chime in here to verify.....

 When I had the had the GY's jacked up for "Safety"....a DUMB THING, now that I realize, to do....but THAT was what the GY Engineers told folks to do....  I would see pressures up in the mid 140's, but that was from a CIP of 124....or maybe a 15% increase.  35% is spooky....

OUR discussion was that if this is sudden, then something must have happened....assuming both tires did it and the sensors are OK.  Forget the temp (no offense)....YES, it is measuring the ambient in an enclosed or semi enclosed envelope...but it is NOT a true indicator.  

What I would want to know (and this was our discussion)  What, before this happened, was the normal Delta P or where did your pressures run when you are driving.  SO, if you started out at say 65 or 70 deg F in the morning and saw these pressures.....then one would expect a much LOWER increase.... say from 100 to 120.  As I was typing, Frank called me back on our other matter and posted.  READ HIS POST ABOVE.

I WOULD add that I had a friend that took delivery of a one year Imperial several years back.  He got less than 200 miles.  A rear drive, INNER, literally exploded.  He said that the Tag air pressure was not adjusted or there was zero or whatever.  We were actually caravaning and the dealer that sold this one year old unit was with us...but not at dinner.  He said that our buddy "FIXED and PAID" for the oversight and got his tech on the phone and got everything set right BEFORE he was allowed to move the coach.

You APPEAR to have lost the benefit of the TAG axle and the Drives are carrying the entire or a LOT of the total rear axle....this is DANGEROUS.  Assuming you are NOT overloaded....  WHY?  Frank thinks you need to verify the pressures on the tag and also how the leveling system is set up. I would also SLOWLY drive to a CAT scale and do the one side versus the other and have the axles split so you get Tag, Rear (Drive) and Front.  That will tell you if your Tag is carrying it's share of the load...

[96 EVO]

40 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

I would check the tag axle air pressure.  If for some reason the tag is not at air pressure or you have it set to automatically lift at low speed this would put all the weight on the drive axle.  That would surely increase drive tire pressures and temps.

Your Dyn has a 'Auto' tag lift feature?

[Frank McElroy]

15 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Your Dyn has a 'Auto' tag lift feature?

Yes, if I leave my tag up, above about 10 mph it will automatically puts it down and if I slow to under about 10 mph it will automatically raise the tag.  But when that happens it keeps beeping to remind me that the tag is up.  That's how I know that I forgot to lower the tag.

[96 EVO]

Interesting!

I wonder if mine is programed to do the same if I don't press the 'tag raise' button a second time, as I have always done 🤔.

[Frank McElroy]

Give it a try.  If you have the Valid Power Gear system like mine I bet it has the same feature.

[96 EVO]

I do have Valid / Powergear.

Just one button named 'Tag Lift', or 'Tag Raise' correct?

Goes to show, you never stop learning these rig's, if you want to!

[Frank McElroy]

Yes, one button.  Here is a description in page 13 of the Valid Power Gear manual.

 

There is also a programmed two minute delay before you can lift the tag after starting the engine.  The tag can only be lifted in travel mode.  On certain heavy coaches, the tag doesn't actually lift - just the tag air bags are deflated.

[96 EVO]

Thanks Frank! 

I'll give it a shot next time out.

I know about the 120 sec delay. I have a reversing 90* turn onto the street from my driveway. Wife is always wondering why I'm just sitting there 😁!

[Mocephus]

3 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

I would check the tag axle air pressure in travel mode.  Also, verify on a set of weight scales that you have set the tag axle air pressure properly.  Also, while on the scales, the coach must remain running and in travel mode - otherwise the weight reading will not be correct. 

A failed tag axle air pressure regulator or valve in the leveling system could cause the tag axle not to carry the proper amount of weight and transfer it all to the drive axle.  Keep in mind that this could be an intermittent issue.

If for some reason the tag is not at proper air pressure or you have it set to automatically lift at low speed this would put all the weight on the drive axle.  That would surely increase drive tire pressures and temps.

Thanks Frank! Before we head out on Thursday I'll check the tag pressure while in Travel Mode. It is not set to raise automatically at low speed.

[Mocephus]

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

OK....that is interesting. I briefly talked to Frank on some other issues and we discussed it.  I do NOT have a Tag. But, my experience with three different brands of tires and some 65K and always having a PressurePro system...and now the new unit is that your 35 PSI Delta P is the indication of a serious  underlying problem.

I have some data....really old, and for Bridgestones....but this is the the gist of it....

Front - about 13% increase.  Ambient of 65 in the early AM & CIP (Cold Inflated Pressure) of 115.  I expect to see them running around 130 PSI.  Sometimes lower or higher...but never a 35% increase. My fronts, due to my fresh water and diesel tank use up almost 90% of the front axle capacity.  Axle is 13K rated

Rear - OUTERS - about 14/15%.  CIP of 100 and running of 114/15 or so. AGAIN...I have a NON TAG.  My Axle is the oddball 23K that Monaco used.

Rear - INNERS - About 16/17%.  This is from the days where both were set the same....so might see 116/17.

I don't know what your ambient was when you set the CIP.  If I guess 65 Def F, then if you go from 100 PSI to 135 PSI, the internal tire temp goes OFF SCALE...when I use my spreadsheet. The "Calculated" internal tire pressure, using the SmarTire data would be way over 200 deg F...and dangerous.  NOW, that is all theoretical. 

BUT, I can tell you based on knowing and recording my CIP and watching the monitor and Frank's is in the same ball park, I think, we NEVER see a 35% INCREASE in any TIRE.  YES, my inners will go higher....but never approach 20%....Frank may chime in here to verify.....

 When I had the had the GY's jacked up for "Safety"....a DUMB THING, now that I realize, to do....but THAT was what the GY Engineers told folks to do....  I would see pressures up in the mid 140's, but that was from a CIP of 124....or maybe a 15% increase.  35% is spooky....

OUR discussion was that if this is sudden, then something must have happened....assuming both tires did it and the sensors are OK.  Forget the temp (no offense)....YES, it is measuring the ambient in an enclosed or semi enclosed envelope...but it is NOT a true indicator.  

What I would want to know (and this was our discussion)  What, before this happened, was the normal Delta P or where did your pressures run when you are driving.  SO, if you started out at say 65 or 70 deg F in the morning and saw these pressures.....then one would expect a much LOWER increase.... say from 100 to 120.  As I was typing, Frank called me back on our other matter and posted.  READ HIS POST ABOVE.

I WOULD add that I had a friend that took delivery of a one year Imperial several years back.  He got less than 200 miles.  A rear drive, INNER, literally exploded.  He said that the Tag air pressure was not adjusted or there was zero or whatever.  We were actually caravaning and the dealer that sold this one year old unit was with us...but not at dinner.  He said that our buddy "FIXED and PAID" for the oversight and got his tech on the phone and got everything set right BEFORE he was allowed to move the coach.

You APPEAR to have lost the benefit of the TAG axle and the Drives are carrying the entire or a LOT of the total rear axle....this is DANGEROUS.  Assuming you are NOT overloaded....  WHY?  Frank thinks you need to verify the pressures on the tag and also how the leveling system is set up. I would also SLOWLY drive to a CAT scale and do the one side versus the other and have the axles split so you get Tag, Rear (Drive) and Front.  That will tell you if your Tag is carrying it's share of the load...

I hate that I may be giving you bad data to work with by saying the tire pressures got up to 135 PSI, but I just can't remember what the pressures were for sure. I'm hoping, based on your notes above, that I am way off on my memory!

You are right that the ambient temp was around 65 F when I filled the tires cold.

When we get back on the road Thursday, I'll record the pressures and temps before and during the trip especially if I get another high temp alarm. I did read Frank's note about the tag axle pressure and I'll double check it before departure too.

I may be reaching out again on Thursday but I'm praying that won't be necessary! Thank you so much for all of your help!

[Frank McElroy]

10 minutes ago, Mocephus said:

I hate that I may be giving you bad data to work with by saying the tire pressures got up to 135 PSI, but I just can't remember what the pressures were for sure. I'm hoping, based on your notes above, that I am way off on my memory!

You are right that the ambient temp was around 65 F when I filled the tires cold.

When we get back on the road Thursday, I'll record the pressures and temps before and during the trip especially if I get another high temp alarm. I did read Frank's note about the tag axle pressure and I'll double check it before departure too.

I may be reaching out again on Thursday but I'm praying that won't be necessary! Thank you so much for all of your help!

I'd also do a visual inspection of the tag air bags to see if they air up in travel mode.  Even if they do, I'd still drive over a set of scales to measure weight on the drive and tag axles especially if you see over a +15 psi increase in the drive tires vs cold tire psi.  You want to be sure that you have the correct tag air bags pressure and that the solenoid valves controlling the tag air bags pressures are working properly.

[Mocephus]

2 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

I'd also do a visual inspection of the tag air bags to see if they air up in travel mode.  Even if they do, I'd still drive over a set of scales to measure weight on the drive and tag axles especially if you see over a +15 psi increase in the drive tires vs cold tire psi.  You want to be sure that you have the correct tag air bags pressure and that the solenoid valves controlling the tag air bags pressures are working properly.

Ok, I’ll try to do that on the next leg of our trip. Thanks again!

[Ivan K]

I usually just walk around and see if the tag tires look about the same as the drives where they sit on the ground since they are set to carry close to the same weight each, they should be deformed the same on a flat rest stop. Also touch the hub covers to hopefully feel the same. Unless I suspect a problem to have a closer look with the temp gun.  That's just my quick shortcut to what's said in previous more intelligent posts. 

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

I usually just walk around and see if the tag tires look about the same as the drives where they sit on the ground since they are set to carry close to the same weight each, they should be deformed the same on a flat rest stop. Also touch the hub covers to hopefully feel the same. Unless I suspect a problem to have a closer look with the temp gun.  That's just my quick shortcut to what's said in previous more intelligent posts. 

My tag tires always run cooler than the drives, but, if I added loading to the tag, I'd be overloading the steers.

Monaco did strange things in (or before) 2008! Like installing a 100gal fresh tank and AH in the same very front bay with the 130gal fuel tank!

I don't think they were paying a lot of attention to coach balance!

Edited June 11, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Frank McElroy]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

I usually just walk around and see if the tag tires look about the same as the drives where they sit on the ground since they are set to carry close to the same weight each, they should be deformed the same on a flat rest stop. Also touch the hub covers to hopefully feel the same. Unless I suspect a problem to have a closer look with the temp gun.  That's just my quick shortcut to what's said in previous more intelligent posts. 

I pretty much do the same thing.  From experience I know what ride height looks like and if the tags have weight on them.

Normally I run +15 psi on steer, +12 on drive and +7 on tag compared to cold temp in the morning.  I'll use a thermal temp gun to check hubs at rest stops and on a post trip inspection on arrival at my destination.

If the OP numbers are correct, seeing a +35 PSI on the drive axle says something is wrong.  Either dragging brakes or overloaded axle likely due to a tag axle issue or a drive axle bearing issue.  First up is to check the operation of the tag axle and get the axle weights.  It's unlikely that both drive axle brakes are sticking at the same time unless tank air pressures are low and that's likely not the case or he would have mentioned it.

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, Mocephus said:

I hate that I may be giving you bad data to work with by saying the tire pressures got up to 135 PSI, but I just can't remember what the pressures were for sure. I'm hoping, based on your notes above, that I am way off on my memory!

You are right that the ambient temp was around 65 F when I filled the tires cold.

When we get back on the road Thursday, I'll record the pressures and temps before and during the trip especially if I get another high temp alarm. I did read Frank's note about the tag axle pressure and I'll double check it before departure too.

I may be reaching out again on Thursday but I'm praying that won't be necessary! Thank you so much for all of your help!

Moe and I spent a good bit of time on the phone, so I have more information.  So, to sort it out a bit more, as well as understand and perhaps also help others.

He checked his weights a few years ago.  Was loaded much heavier for a trip out west in the Rockies.  Got to check if he has individual corner weights, but all axles were within the rated limit.  Went through the proper procedure to get corner weights and he understands the need for such.

His TST System is a bit more involved to set up and he can’t recall, but thinks, he did set the low pressure as well as the high pressure.  If he followed the manual’s recommendations, he has the high set at 25% and most other systems with optional built in bands are 20% or so.  He will go back through the setup and verify or change.  If he did not get the high pressure alarms set (must do for EACH sensor), then they were still at default….or 175.  The mystery is WHY he never got a High pressure alarm.  Without more info, it is speculation that his tires (100 CIP) rose above the 125 PSI limit he might have set.  No data so far.

Most likely, as folks have discussed, something has happened recently as BOTH sides are alarming with the High (158 deg F) warning.  He realizes now that he needs to know or maybe make a note card for the pressures’ operating parameters, maybe the temps, and then start using the monitor more.  For the interim, he will focus on verifying the weights early in the week before he starts on the second leg of his trip.  If the weights are correct, as in the 6 rear tires are somewhat balanced and all is well with each axle (drive & tag), that will mean the tag regulator and Power Gear control is functioning and the pressure (set somewhere near 45 PSI ) on the tag regulator is correct.

Then the next most obvious items to focus on will be the bearings and/or brakes (slack adjusters?) on the rear differential.  If the tag regulator system is not working, then there was probably an overloaded condition with the tag which severely overloaded the drive tires. At least some of the variables will be eliminated.

If there is a flaw in this approach, please chime in as this seems reasonable….instead of shotgunning the tag system or hunting for an issue in the bearings or brakes.

If we had data on the real tire pressures when the high temp alarm sounded, easier….but not available. Moe has a better understanding of his TPMS and the relationship of pressure rises and the ability to actually calculate the internal tire temperatures.  

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

My tag tires always run cooler than the drives, but, if I added loading to the tag, I'd be overloading the steers.

Monaco did strange things in (or before) 2008! Like installing a 100gal fresh tank and AH in the same very front bay with the 130gal fuel tank!

I don't think they were paying a lot of attention to coach balance!

Yes indeed….and they never corrected it.  My front axle  has very little safety factor or reserve.  Have a full fresh and fuel tank and your copilot had better not be “mass challenged”.  I only put light weight bulky items in the pass thought front bay and all the heavy stuff in the second bay.  If DW thinks the apocalypse is coming and there will be not grocery stores, i store all her provisions and bottled water in the back of the Yukon….LOL on an engineering approach to Chassis loading.

[96 EVO]

37 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

  

Yes indeed….and they never corrected it.  My front axle  has very little safety factor or reserve.  Have a full fresh and fuel tank and your copilot had better not be “mass challenged”.  I only put light weight bulky items in the pass thought front bay and all the heavy stuff in the second bay.  

Yeah, whoever ordered my coach had the one sliding storage tray installed in the front storage bay. Therefore, heavy items go in there!

Last time I weighed (nearly full fuel and water), I was 400lbs under max on the steer axle, so I'm doing ok, but not a lot of room to add loading to my tag axle!

Only thing that concerns me is that drivers side front tire must be carrying way more weight than the passenger side! An Aqua Hot 450D doesn't equal in weight a full 100gal fresh water tank!

Edited June 11, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Mocephus]

54 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Moe and I spent a good bit of time on the phone, so I have more information.  So, to sort it out a bit more, as well as understand and perhaps also help others.

He checked his weights a few years ago.  Was loaded much heavier for a trip out west in the Rockies.  Got to check if he has individual corner weights, but all axles were within the rated limit.  Went through the proper procedure to get corner weights and he understands the need for such.

His TST System is a bit more involved to set up and he can’t recall, but thinks, he did set the low pressure as well as the high pressure.  If he followed the manual’s recommendations, he has the high set at 25% and most other systems with optional built in bands are 20% or so.  He will go back through the setup and verify or change.  If he did not get the high pressure alarms set (must do for EACH sensor), then they were still at default….or 175.  The mystery is WHY he never got a High pressure alarm.  Without more info, it is speculation that his tires (100 CIP) rose above the 125 PSI limit he might have set.  No data so far.

Most likely, as folks have discussed, something has happened recently as BOTH sides are alarming with the High (158 deg F) warning.  He realizes now that he needs to know or maybe make a note card for the pressures’ operating parameters, maybe the temps, and then start using the monitor more.  For the interim, he will focus on verifying the weights early in the week before he starts on the second leg of his trip.  If the weights are correct, as in the 6 rear tires are somewhat balanced and all is well with each axle (drive & tag), that will mean the tag regulator and Power Gear control is functioning and the pressure (set somewhere near 45 PSI ) on the tag regulator is correct.

Then the next most obvious items to focus on will be the bearings and/or brakes (slack adjusters?) on the rear differential.  If the tag regulator system is not working, then there was probably an overloaded condition with the tag which severely overloaded the drive tires. At least some of the variables will be eliminated.

If there is a flaw in this approach, please chime in as this seems reasonable….instead of shotgunning the tag system or hunting for an issue in the bearings or brakes.

If we had data on the real tire pressures when the high temp alarm sounded, easier….but not available. Moe has a better understanding of his TPMS and the relationship of pressure rises and the ability to actually calculate the internal tire temperatures.  

Yes indeed….and they never corrected it.  My front axle  has very little safety factor or reserve.  Have a full fresh and fuel tank and your copilot had better not be “mass challenged”.  I only put light weight bulky items in the pass thought front bay and all the heavy stuff in the second bay.  If DW thinks the apocalypse is coming and there will be not grocery stores, i store all her provisions and bottled water in the back of the Yukon….LOL on an engineering approach to Chassis loading.

Tom, thank you for the time on the phone this evening. Your insights were very helpful!

I did go through my TPMS pressure settings tonight and they were set as recommended by the manufacturer (TST)…-10% and +25%. I adjusted the hi pressure to +20% per your recommendation. The high temp setting was at the factory default of 158 F and I left it at that.

Instead of breaking up our stay here at Hilton Head to take most of a whole day to prepare the rig for departure, drive to the closest CAT Scales, go through the various weighing scenarios, then drive back and set up the rig again, we’re going to instead do all of that on our way to our next campground on Thursday. That way we’ll not risk getting stuck at a repair shop and not making it back to our amazing site here at HH. If we have to lose camping nights for repairs, I’d rather it be from the next campground.

I’ll post my findings once I get it weighed.

Thank you again!

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Mocephus

[Tom Cherry]

10 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Yeah, whoever ordered my coach had the one sliding storage tray installed in the front storage bay. Therefore, heavy items go in there!

Last time I weighed (nearly full fuel and water), I was 400lbs under max on the steer axle, so I'm doing ok, but not a lot of room to add loading to my tag axle!

Only thing that concerns me is that drivers side front tire must be carrying way more weight than the passenger side! An Aqua Hot 450D doesn't equal in weight a full 100gal fresh water tank!

I guess in order to get our front axles balanced, the drivers must go on a crash diet and find a mass challenged co pilot.  I think mine is the same as yours without pulling some excel spreadsheets….

my two bays have sliding trays, accessible, from both sides.  Standard or optional, that is the way they came. 

[96 EVO]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

I guess in order to get our front axles balanced, the drivers must go on a crash diet and find a mass challenged co pilot.  

And I have the exact opposite of that, unless she becomes pilot, and myself, navigator. (A scary thought 😬)

Then you add the deeper, heavier slide with fridge on the road side.........

I swear, if someone passed me a Brontosaurus rib thru the toll window, I'd flop over like Fred Flintstone! 

[W7BE_Bob]

My drive axle has 19,600 lbs with 20K limit and tire inflation tables are 90 psi. Tag is 5,000 lbs with 10K limit, cannot increase this because the stear is at max. Side to side weight difference is small. These are loaded weights.

Doubtful that moving the water/fuel/aquahot back would help because the storage areas would move forward. While the weights are within specs a better design with include a higher rating steer axle so that the tag weight could increase and reduce the drive weight. But other than the original badyear tires I've had no suspension issues other than the wonderful Monroe shocks that outlived the warranty and were replaced with Koni.

[96 EVO]

38 minutes ago, W7BE_Bob said:

My drive axle has 19,600 lbs with 20K limit and tire inflation tables are 90 psi.  

Bob

Don't be shocked if you actually have a 19,000lb capacity drive axle!

Never mind what Monaco call's it. Look up the actual axle part number. My rear Diff is a Dana 19060S

Edited June 11, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Bob

Don't be shocked if you actually have a 19,000lb capacity drive axle!

Never mind what Monaco call's it. Look up the actual axle part number. My rear Diff is a Dana 19060S

AND you two have axles that will not get you busted in some states.  I have the INFAMOUS 23K single axle on the rear.  We have had stories of some folks avoiding certain tolls booths in Ohio, for one, due to the overweight (20K limit) on the axle.  I drove the OH TP and had offloaded everything I could from the rear NOT to exceed the 20K limit...

ONWARD...

[96 EVO]

Yes.

Combined with the tag axle I'm running about 24,500lbs on the rear, out of 29,000lbs capacity.

That's without the bike on the lift.

"IF" I were ambitious, I could move my sliding storage tray from the front, to the rear storage bay, and move heavier items farther back.

Edited June 11, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Ivylog]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Yes.

Combined with the tag axle I'm running about 24,500lbs on the rear, out of 29,000lbs capacity.

That's without the bike on the lift.

"IF" I were ambitious, I could move my sliding storage tray from the front, to the rear storage bay, and move heavier items farther back.

A Highway bill in 2013 made 24K axles legal on MHs and Buses. Yes there’s so toll roads in the BE that have a 30 K limit. I turn on the “ truck must enter sign at some weight stations that weigh you on the fly as I blow bye.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Ivylog