Gary Petersen Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Silly me! 2002' Sig Coach In storage, I left the coach with the headlights on but, coach was plugged into shore power. I returned to find ignition and (2017') Start batteries DEAD. 7V Inexperienced, I quickly tried the Battery Boost switch a couple of times without success. Afraid of doing any damage, I stopped, and hooked up a battery charger which, over night restored starting ability to 13.2V. Why, with the active shore power available, did the batteries die? What should I do if we were stuck while "boon docking"? Would a Blue Sea ACR have prevented this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Not sure why your chassis battery didn't charge. I'd keep a close eye on the chassis battery, completely discharging may have damaged it so even if it is showing 13.2 volts it may not hold a charge. But the Bluesea MLacr probably would have prevented this, when if it senses a charging voltage from Alternator or Inverter it closes the relay (if it is in automatic mode) and charges both sets of batteries. My Bluesea has been installed for ~2 years now and has never left me down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHN McCLURE Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 Shore power does not charge chassis batteries. Several times I have recommended to my RV friends to get a separate , inexpensive charger and keep it dedicated to the chassis batteries. I installed a separate 110 outlet for this purpose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 I don’t understand why these coaches don’t charge the chassis battery when plugged in, what kind of design is that? I believe I have checked at one point while plugged in and it seemed to be in the loop. No Blue Sea device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, tmw188 said: I don’t understand why these coaches don’t charge the chassis battery when plugged in, what kind of design is that? I believe I have checked at one point while plugged in and it seemed to be in the loop. No Blue Sea device. Later models do! Don't know if the Bi- directional charging systems were available in 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfbolkovatz Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 In the rear right there is, the the high amperage collector panel. The battery maintainer (mine is green) receives power form the house batteries and when charged if above 13.2V provides power to the chassis bat. Should have a indicator light on it. There is a relay in the left panel that needs to work properly. I had to chase mine down 11 years ago and the relay had a bad connection, cleaned sprayed and power flowed. Mine is a 2003 Exec, should be very similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterskier_1 Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 2 hours ago, JOHN McCLURE said: Shore power does not charge chassis batteries. Several times I have recommended to my RV friends to get a separate , inexpensive charger and keep it dedicated to the chassis batteries. I installed a separate 110 outlet for this purpose. This is not correct. All Monacos (from the mid 1990's) from the Dynasty and up (maybe others too) had provisions for charging or maintaining the chassis battery while on Shore or generator power. Early years had a Lambert battery maintainer, newer years had a BIRD (Bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay) system. I'm not sure which the OP had, but the Lambert may not Haase had the capacity to supply the headlights current requirements. - Rick N 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 2 hours ago, tmw188 said: I don’t understand why these coaches don’t charge the chassis battery when plugged in, what kind of design is that? I believe I have checked at one point while plugged in and it seemed to be in the loop. No Blue Sea device. Your coach should be the way mine was and should keep the chassis batteries charged. Mine had a BIRD, Lambert 415, and the isolation relay. In 2021 I started to hear my Lambert click on/off quite a bit, had never really noticed that before, and my chassis battery never seemed to be charged to a very high voltage. Never had a problem with never being able to start. I did do the diagnostics on the Lambert and it showed it was OK but I started questioning the system. That's when I swapped out all three of those components for the Bluesea MLacr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Wahl Posted July 21, 2023 Share Posted July 21, 2023 In my 2001 Signature, in the right rear run bay, I have the Lambert Enterprises Model LE-315 "keep it up" battery maintainer. I had a same problem where my chassis batteries were not charging. What I found was at some point the ground wire that battery maintainer to the negative side of the COACH Battery was hooked up in the middle of the 6 volt battery loop, not at the end. This caused the battery maintainer to only 6.5 to 7 volts from the coach battery and not allow the chassis batteries to charge because the battery thought the coach batteries were also low. There is an document on the downloads that walk you through testing the system. I also found another document that I have included that shows some diagrams on the system along with testing the battery maintainer. LAMBERT Battey Maintainer.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis.mcdonaugh Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 22 hours ago, JOHN McCLURE said: Shore power does not charge chassis batteries. Several times I have recommended to my RV friends to get a separate , inexpensive charger and keep it dedicated to the chassis batteries. I installed a separate 110 outlet for this purpose. Some coaches charge the chassis batteries on shore power. My 2000 Dynasty does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 22 hours ago, Gary Petersen said: Silly me! 2002' Sig Coach In storage, I left the coach with the headlights on but, coach was plugged into shore power. I returned to find ignition and (2017') Start batteries DEAD. 7V Inexperienced, I quickly tried the Battery Boost switch a couple of times without success. Afraid of doing any damage, I stopped, and hooked up a battery charger which, over night restored starting ability to 13.2V. Why, with the active shore power available, did the batteries die? What should I do if we were stuck while "boon docking"? Would a Blue Sea ACR have prevented this? Lots of good comments....this is what I know, or think I know and my recommendation. Your Sig may have had a device installed like the Amp-L-Start or some such "Battery Isolator" and "erstwhile" charger. Don't know. BUT, you can look at the prints. Most of the very early 2000's were a very mixed (even changes were made during a model year) and you do not (probably) have Bi-Directional (Called BIRD for an acronym) charging. SO, on shore power, you have NOTHING to charge the HOUSE batteries. If you have the Lambert (memory?) or Amp-L-Start device installed, it was a device that was supposed to "siphon off" or steal as I view it, power from the House to the Chassis batteries. EDIT NOTE...I googled Amp-L-Start...and their AD COPY says STEALS. I want a royalty. Bottom line, as LONG as you are plugged in to power (30 amps is really needed to properly run your Inverter/Charger), then, in theory, assuming it works and the life expectancy of the original "devices" and the knock off's vary....you will be bleeding or stealing a "controlled" amount of power from the House to the Chassis. In reality....if you have 30 amp power and a good Inverter/charger, a simple $10 jumper cable between the House and Chassis would work. NOW, there is supposed to be electronic circuitry to prevent the Chassis from STEALING too much. The OTHER solution is to purchase a Battery Maintainer or Tender that has at least 2 amps, but 5 is preferred, and just plug it into an AC outlet and that will keep your Chassis topped off. One of our member just purchased a high end and the owner did a little "tinkering" as the OEM BIRD went south and there is a permanent Battery Tender installed. NOW....be aware. You do NOT use a $25 charger. Pulse Technology and Battery Tender and others have a nice unit (around $100) that will PROPERLY maintain the chassis. Throw on a $25 charger, even at low (2 amp) setting and leave it there and it will (probably) overcook the Chassis. SO...why risk it. These devices work. I have used a 0.75A Battery Tender for at least 12 years on my lawn tractor. The "charging system" was a joke...invented by folks that owned stock in lawnmower battery companies...LOL. The dealer told me to buy one. So, I spent $40 and got 7 0r 8 years out of each ($35) new battery. The cost to repair my less than desired charging system was over $300. SO....a nice, three stage (same technology as our Inverter/Chargers) will work nicely. Some have plugged them into the Diesel Heater outlet (and left the switch ON if it was switched from the dash) and that keeps the battery topped off. When at the CG or when running the Genny or when in storage...WITH POWER. THAT is how it is done. NOW.... The Blue Seas, ML-ACR. That is becoming a replacement device for some of the earlier (2000's) components. It replaces the Boost Solenoid (commonly called, but misnamed BIG BOY.. Many of them were other brands and NOT the Intelltec Big Boy. There is a post on this where @vanwill52 wrote a great post. NOW....there are a few things to take into account. Van is an accomplished electrician and repair guy and and an overall great GEARHEAD. The STOCK or out the door, plain Jane ML-ACR does NOT work with the original Battery Boost switch. It has a simple (memory) 3 position switch. ON, OFF and AUTO. If you use it, you are dependent on AC Power or periodically running your Generator to keep the chassis maintained. JUST LIKE the Amp-L-Start. If you don't have storage power, then you have to go out every few weeks or so and run the Genny to recharge the batteries... There is an advance version of the ML-ACR or the one with REMOTE capabilities. The Plain Jane version requires you to go to the RRB and turn ON the BOOST when you need it....and it can NOT be activiated from the Boost Switch on the dash. That switch is now "disconnected". SO, you go out....turn it on....do whatever....set it back to AUTO and drive one. When you are driving...the House is charged. When you have AC power and the Inverter is pumping out charging current, BOTH banks are charged. NOW...the REMOTE version requires that you run 3 wires from the Rear to the Front and you mount the remote control. This is all explained in Van's post as well as laid out in the instructions that are online on the Blue Seas webpage. PERSONALLY, If I ran 3, I'd pull 5 and have a spare set of #12 wires...just in case you lost a circuit or a wire got chaffed... FWIW....and this is what I and a few folks do... I had an issue with my Big Boy. I actually JUMPERED across the terminals on mine for storage...and disconnect when in use. SO...using a cable or a Jumper cable....both work.... Hope this helps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Laursen Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 The drawings I have for 2002-2003 Nav, Exe, Sig, Dyn show the Cole-Hersee dual battery charger and the Lambert battery maintainer. Both solid state devices that can't be repaired. Thus, while driving the Cole-Hersee dual battery charger, charges both sets of batteries. While on shore power the house batteries are charged by the inverter/charger and the chassis batteries are charged by the Lambert battery maintainer. If the chassis batteries are not being charged, then the Lambert device has failed. You can take the previous suggestions for different solutions above to fix the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Won’t a 20a receptacle run the Inv charger by itself? I don’t always run my 50a cord in the driveway unless needing more power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 I was plugged into a 20 amp outlet for a month, staying next to my brothers house. Didn't need AC and the 20 amp was plenty for TV, lights, laptop, and occasional microwave. Did have to watch total amp draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 34 minutes ago, jacwjames said: I was plugged into a 20 amp outlet for a month, staying next to my brothers house. Didn't need AC and the 20 amp was plenty for TV, lights, laptop, and occasional microwave. Did have to watch total amp draw. YES. Couple of things that most may or may NOT know, If you have a Magnum, push SHORE & reset it to 20 Amps. The ordinary or proper setting is 30 A….based on the Main Panel Inverter Circuit Breaker….a 30 A. NOT the pedestal. If you are on 20, you must turn it down….then back up to 30 later. NEVER 50A. Next, there is a charging rate parameter in the setup. As long as you “come in” with reasonably charged House Batteries, then set that down to maybe 20 - 40%. It takes very little current to charge or maintain. But remember to bump back up. I alternate between 80 & 90%. My inverter don’t need to be running wild at 100%….plus it gets hotter. On really hot days when I have been out in the MH and the batteries were “boondocking”, I’ll drop back to 70% to keep the FET’s (the IC chips) from overheating. AND your 20 A (or 15) per MAGNUM….best or better be a NON GCFI circuit.. they make no guarantees or have solutions…..a very common call….daily…when the GFCI trips out…. Plain 20 A breaker.. YES…as Jim says….easy to exist….even, with no major loads on, use the Microwave. Forget the crock pot, hair dryer, curling iron, space heater…LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterskier_1 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 4 hours ago, tmw188 said: Won’t a 20a receptacle run the Inv charger by itself? I don’t always run my 50a cord in the driveway unless needing more power. Yes, as long as the batteries are pretty much charged to start with. I have done this with a 15 Amp outlet, but you have to really be cognizant of what is consuming power. In most cases, it will just trip the 15 Amp outlets' circuit breaker. One clarification about Tom's post regarding resetting the incoming power current. All this does is monitor the usage and turn down or off the battery charger. It ONLY controls the battery charger in the inverter, prioritizing it as the lowest. But it alone has no other control or limiting function. It will not prevent you from turning on an A/C, for example. It will allow you to do that, at least until the 20-Amp outlets' Circuit Breaker trips. It is not and Energy Management System, not that Tom said it was, but some my think that. -Rick N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimc99999 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) If you haven’t swapped out the battery bank isolator with a ML-ACR then you may have a trickle charger that keeps the chassis batteries charged. The problem is that even the marker lights draw far more power than that trickle charger can provide. (Yes, I left the marker lights on overnight accidentally once and the chassis batteries were under 9V the next morning.) The old style battery bank isolators allow the alternator to charge both banks at high amperage but not the inverter/charger. Edited July 23, 2023 by jimc99999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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