Wiring Harness burned - please help!

[dl_racing427]

On 8/5/2023 at 9:50 AM, DennisZ said:

If you do want to use a 1 piece solder sleeve, use one like these, I’ve used literally thousands of them in aircraft wiring, they are not cheap, and do require a high temp heat gun to shrink them, but these are very reliable mil-spec splices.  https://www.amazon.com/TE-CONNECTIVITY-RAYCHEM-D-110-35-TERMINAL/dp/B00LQP018E/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WOCIZTXLDMD0&keywords=Raychem+solder+splices&qid=1691243191&sprefix=raychem+solder+splices%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-4

Wow, those are pricey.
Coming from TE/Raychem I'm certain they're top quality.

[JESPHDUSA]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:35 AM, CRY1942 said:

Best independently owned shop in your area is Ducks Garage in Benton, Arkansas.

I would give them a call and see what they have to say.

Really good folks and RV friendly.

Telephone : 501-778-2886.

Best of luck getting back on the road.

Thanks Charles. I tried them, but he said that was outside of his wheelhouse. Sure wish I could find someone to do the job - I'm nervous about tackling it myself.

[cbr046]

1 hour ago, JESPHDUSA said:

Thanks Charles. I tried them, but he said that was outside of his wheelhouse. Sure wish I could find someone to do the job - I'm nervous about tackling it myself.

If I were tackling the job on my rig I would cut one wire at a time, well back from the burned portion for a better chance of finding good copper.  I would strip and twist the wires together axially head-to-toe, then solder / heat shrink (don't forget to slip the heat shrink on first!) that one immediately, then do the next one.  And so on.  The key is one wire at a time to keep them from getting mixed up.  Connectors will only make the bundle HUGE.  Even so there'll be a big enough bulge. 

But to your credit it would scare me to death to do it on someone else's rig. 😲

Good luck whatever you decide.

- bob

[JESPHDUSA]

7 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

If I were tackling the job on my rig I would cut one wire at a time, well back from the burned portion for a better chance of finding good copper.  I would strip and twist the wires together axially head-to-toe, then solder / heat shrink (don't forget to slip the heat shrink on first!) that one immediately, then do the next one.  And so on.  The key is one wire at a time to keep them from getting mixed up.  Connectors will only make the bundle HUGE.  Even so there'll be a big enough bulge. 

But to your credit it would scare me to death to do it on someone else's rig. 😲

Good luck whatever you decide.

- bob

Thanks, Bob. I probably WILL have to tackle it on my own and appreciate all the input I can get. I wouldn't be as concerned if it was on my workbench, but laying on my back on hot pavement, underneath the RV and 25 miles away from my shop (with all my tools and spare bits-n-pieces), it's intimidating. Probably have to make a dozen trips to/from home and/or the hardware store during the process. If I would just resign myself to the fact that it will probably take me a couple of weeks to complete, it will take some of the pressure off. One wire at a time... 🙂

[Ivan K]

I would guess there's not so many wires, 30 max? Still enough to make you hurt so find the most comfortable position, foam pad etc, maybe you can even sit under it? Or may even pull the bundle up and do it from cooled inside? Either way, as comfortable as you can be helps to do a better job than straining and hurting for days, from my own experience on the road... All the tools and supplies on a tray with you, nothing worse than crawling in and out all the time. I would also consider a magnetic wire holder to help my shaky hands. When done, I would not use a sticky tape that can rip the connections apart if you have to go back to check or fix something. You can do it!

Also consider a pin removal tool in case you make a mistake and plug it into a wrong hole...

Edited August 8, 2023 by Ivan K

[JESPHDUSA]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

I would guess there's not so many wires, 30 max? Still enough to make you hurt so find the most comfortable position, foam pad etc, maybe you can even sit under it? Or may even pull the bundle up and do it from cooled inside? Either way, as comfortable as you can be helps to do a better job than straining and hurting for days, from my own experience on the road... All the tools and supplies on a tray with you, nothing worse than crawling in and out all the time. I would also consider a magnetic wire holder to help my shaky hands. When done, I would not use a sticky tape that can rip the connections apart if you have to go back to check or fix something. You can do it!

Also consider a pin removal tool in case you make a mistake and plug it into a wrong hole...

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Ivan. Unfortunately, there are 68 pins on this connector! Main thing is going to be maintaining my patience and accepting that it's going to take several days. If I try to do it too quickly, that's when I will get into trouble. 

[cbr046]

Instead of wiring in a new connector I'd consider a used connector from a salvage yard.  Just have them clip the harness out with PLENTY of extra wire (you can always cut it back later).  This way color codes match and you don't have to worry about crimping pins or inserting in the wrong hole, etc.  Less time under the coach, too.

Just make sure it's a Monaco with a DD60.  Even close to that year should be the same. 

- bob

[JESPHDUSA]

2 hours ago, cbr046 said:

Instead of wiring in a new connector I'd consider a used connector from a salvage yard.  Just have them clip the harness out with PLENTY of extra wire (you can always cut it back later).  This way color codes match and you don't have to worry about crimping pins or inserting in the wrong hole, etc.  Less time under the coach, too.

Just make sure it's a Monaco with a DD60.  Even close to that year should be the same. 

- bob

Really good idea, Bob. Unfortunately, in order to get the shop to agree to let me work on it, I had to agree to let them order the parts (connector, 68 pins, shroud, etc.). They need to make $ on the deal somehow. Of course, they'll also make money on the ECU because after I get the new connector wired, I'm pretty sure they will have to replace the ECU. Can't imagine that it's not also fried. Heavy sigh...

[Yoaks5]

I would go to the rv and see how back you need to go to get to good wire then make up the connector at home on the bench. Then all you have to do is cut each wire and install the new splice. You could even have the new splice attached on the plug side. 

I'd also check your batteries while you're there. Even with the disconnect off they will still drain down. Probably be a good idea to start the gen and charge them up while you're there. You could even run the air to give you somewhere to cool off if needed. 

[JESPHDUSA]

3 hours ago, Yoaks5 said:

I would go to the rv and see how back you need to go to get to good wire then make up the connector at home on the bench. Then all you have to do is cut each wire and install the new splice. You could even have the new splice attached on the plug side. 

I'd also check your batteries while you're there. Even with the disconnect off they will still drain down. Probably be a good idea to start the gen and charge them up while you're there. You could even run the air to give you somewhere to cool off if needed. 

Kevin - you're a genius!! I would never have thought of that, but it would save me hours of backbreaking time spend lying on the ground under the RV and probably help prevent me from making mistakes. Thanks very much for the suggestion. 🙂

[Yoaks5]

No problem! Glad I could help. 

I would also take several pics when you go to the coach and try to buy new wiring in the same color as is on it now. It'll probably be hard to find all the differed colors but I would try as it may help avoid a mistake. I've even added a stripe to a wire. Say if you need red with a black stripe. You just make your own stripe with a sharpie or paint pin. I bought several colors of these off Amazon and it's oil base paint that is very durable once it dries. 

 

[BradHend]

@JESPHDUSA
If you goto an elevator equipment supplier in your area you could purchase a length of traveling cable.   It is the power cord that runs with the elevator and supplies 120VAC for the lighting/fans as well as all the control wiring.  The wires are all labeled, usually by numbers every few inches and depending on the manufacturer, color coded as well.  You can get all different variations of wiring available inside, but a common one has (48) #18AWG, (4) #14AWG, (6) twisted shielded pairs and an RG6. 
I can post a pic if you’d like to see what I’m talking about. 
 

Also, Brady just came out with a new Bluetooth label maker.   App based now so no bulky keyboard.  The vinyl labels are very durable and you can set the label style to the wire marker label which makes for a nice personalized label that is sized perfectly for the wire size you set. 

Edited August 9, 2023 by BradHend

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

On 8/2/2023 at 5:46 PM, cbr046 said:

That many butt connectors will make for a very big bulge at the junction point.  And each connection is only as good as the crimp. 

I'm pretty good at soldering (or at least used to be) so if that were my harness I would cut / strip each wire, jam the two ends together (intermixing the strands together) solder then heat shrink tubing (don't forget to put the tubing on before soldering!).  The key is to make sure the copper isn't oxidized so the solder flows.  But that's me.  Individual results may vary.

- bob

You staggerthe splices by an inch and half and you’re good. 

[KarenG]

Just for research purposes, looked for a couple parts over the years by going nationwide. Google " find my rv parts". There are several salvage and used parts places from Texas to Arizona that may help find the parts or refer you to yet another source. In the meantime, I did separate research for a mobile service or shop to fix the issue, but it sounds like your experience will come in handy.

[JESPHDUSA]

UPDATE:

I was told last Friday that the parts were in at United Engines and that I could come do the work on my RV. Got there this morning with a truck full of tools/equipment ready to go to work and they informed me that they had changed their minds. I am now not allowed to work on the RV in their lot. They want to sell me the parts, then have me tow it somewhere else to do the work. I strongly encourage anyone having a problem in central Arkansas to avoid United Engines in Little Rock at all cost! They are the worst service provide I have ever had the misfortune of encountering. I am now looking for a place nearby to have it towed to so I can work on it. Will keep you posted. Thanks for all the words of encouragement and advice. Hopefully I will eventually get to put some of it to use. 🙂

 

Meanwhile, if anyone has a copy of a schematic from Monaco for this connector, I would be most appreciative. Still looking for that piece of the puzzle.

Scratch the last sentence in my last post. I just went back through this thread and realized that Jim J. had already given me a copy of the 2006 Navigator Wiring Diagram. I'm sure what I need is in there - I just blew past that post in my frustration, I guess.

Thanks Jim J. You are wonderful!!!

[Donflem]

Dang Eric so sorry you’re going through this. Shame on them for not helping you out.

Don

[cbr046]

I understand their side of it:  Lawyers!  Still unfortunate they won't take the risk. 

You told them to keep the parts, right?

I still like the idea of clipping a connector with partial harness from a salvage yard.  Color codes would match and everything. 

- bob

[Ivan K]

It is disappointing for sure but not knowing what towing protection you might or might not have, wouldn't that provider be obligated to tow you to a place that can actually fix it? I have no experience with that but would expect them to do that if the first choice shop was unable/unwilling. 

[dl_racing427]

18 hours ago, cbr046 said:

I understand their side of it:  Lawyers!  Still unfortunate they won't take the risk. 

You told them to keep the parts, right?

I still like the idea of clipping a connector with partial harness from a salvage yard.  Color codes would match and everything. 

- bob

I agree with this.  Much easier and probably cheaper than new parts, and you preserve the color codes as well, making future troubleshooting much easier if needed.

No way would I buy the parts from them after they reneged on their promises.

Edited August 15, 2023 by dl_racing427

[JESPHDUSA]

UPDATE

Well, after much haggling with United Engines of Little Rock, they finally agreed to let me have my RV back and not have to buy the parts from them. They charged me $515 for 2.31 hours of "unspecified labor". Then for another $870, I had it towed to my brother-in-law's ranch, which is close to my house. So, I'm now out a little over $2800 total for moving it about 8 miles from home and still have no parts.

If anyone has any ideas where I can get a "coach-side" ECU connector (with at least a couple of feet of wire attached) from a similar used coach (mine is a 2006 HR Navigator 45PBQ with a Detroit Diesel series 60), please let me know. I suspect most any of the bigger HR coaches from the early 2000s with a Detroit Diesel in them would work.

I have tried most of the major RV savage places that I can find (Arizona, Missouri, Kentucky, etc.) and no luck with any of them. I'm ready to re-wire and get this thing going (and I now have it where I'm allowed to work on it). Just need to source the parts.

As always, I really appreciate all the help and support from the members of this forum.

Eric

[Ivan K]

DD60 isn't RV exclusive engine and there are many truck salvage yards, have you tried searching for 'truck salvage'?  It may not have the same colors on the OEM plug, not sure about that but personally, I would just make my own new pigtail anyways.

[JESPHDUSA]

Thanks, Ivan, but what I really want is the connector/wires that Monaco installed so that the wire colors would match and help me prevent a mistake. I have found online sites where I can buy all new (connector, pins, etc.), but would still prefer to go the route of a used connector with color-coded wires already attached. I've checked with Visone RV, Colaw RV and RVYard.com in Arizona, but no luck with any of them. If I can't find one in the next week or two, I will just order the new parts and make up my own pigtail, but the colors won't match because there are just too many different color combinations with 68 wires.

[Tom Cherry]

23 minutes ago, JESPHDUSA said:

Thanks, Ivan, but what I really want is the connector/wires that Monaco installed so that the wire colors would match and help me prevent a mistake. I have found online sites where I can buy all new (connector, pins, etc.), but would still prefer to go the route of a used connector with color-coded wires already attached. I've checked with Visone RV, Colaw RV and RVYard.com in Arizona, but no luck with any of them. If I can't find one in the next week or two, I will just order the new parts and make up my own pigtail, but the colors won't match because there are just too many different color combinations with 68 wires.

A $10 pack of Electrician’s color tape used for color coding….at both ends or on a replacement harness, easily found on or from Amazon might be a cost and time effective solution. In commercial installs, one does not have three different colors of cable for high voltage and high current runs.  Industrial and Commercial runs label the cables at every J Box or splice and to sub-panels.  Usually a few wraps or maybe 2 side wraps….primarily for “phase” identification when using 3 Phase power.  Or from a run from a main for a big sub or breaker panel.

Understand your concerns, but often times, a KISS solution that has all the reliability of a fully color coded harness is easier and just as effective.  I need to do that on a battery selector switch….thanks for reminding me.

 

 

[BradHend]

I’d be happy to send you a chunk of elevator traveling cable.  Mostly 18 guage, stranded, oil resistant insulation on the wires.  All numbered every couple inches and color coded to a degree. 1-10 yellow, 10-20 orange 20-30 brown etc etc. 

I believe the one we typically use is 42 conductor, with some #14s, a bunch of twisted/shielded pairs as well in addition to the 42 #18AWG conductors. 

Just take the wires out and remake your our harness/loom.   Let me know  

Do you have a confirmed wire count yet?

Edited September 16, 2023 by BradHend

[JESPHDUSA]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

A $10 pack of Electrician’s color tape used for color coding….at both ends or on a replacement harness, easily found on or from Amazon might be a cost and time effective solution. In commercial installs, one does not have three different colors of cable for high voltage and high current runs.  Industrial and Commercial runs label the cables at every J Box or splice and to sub-panels.  Usually a few wraps or maybe 2 side wraps….primarily for “phase” identification when using 3 Phase power.  Or from a run from a main for a big sub or breaker panel.

Understand your concerns, but often times, a KISS solution that has all the reliability of a fully color coded harness is easier and just as effective.  I need to do that on a battery selector switch….thanks for reminding me.

 

 

Good suggestion Tom. I will do that if I can't find a used one and end up having to create my own.

1 hour ago, BradHend said:

I’d be happy to send you a chunk of elevator traveling cable.  Mostly 18 guage, stranded, oil resistant insulation on the wires.  All numbered every couple inches and color coded to a degree. 1-10 yellow, 10-20 orange 20-30 brown etc etc. 

I believe the one we typically use is 42 conductor, with some #14s, a bunch of twisted/shielded pairs as well in addition to the 42 #18AWG conductors. 

Just take the wires out and remake your our harness/loom.   Let me know  

Do you have a confirmed wire count yet?

Thanks for the offer, Brad. I bought 10 rolls of 18ga wire in different colors (25 ft each color) and 25-ft (each) of 14ga black and red, so I'm prepared if I have to make my own pigtail. I also bought a couple hundred open-barrel crimp connectors too. If I have to do it the hard way, I figure to crimp connect, then solder, then heat shrink. I want to do this right, so I don't have to do it twice! Haven't got an exact wire count yet, but I know there are eight 14ga power wires (4 +, 4 -) and I think, 51 18ga.