2008 Sig post from IRV2

[timaz996]

2008 Signature Series

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Hi,
Long time reader, recent member, first post.

So we are looking for our first Class A motorhome and want a tag axel so I can tow my stacker trailer. Really like the Signature ones and keep reading how the quality of the pre bankruptcy Monaco’s is so fantastic and wanted to find one. So we came across a 2008 Signature series that we love the floor plan for. But aren’t sure wether or not to stay away from the 2008 model year or not. Some say it’s fine and 2009 + are the ones to avoid. Other seem to include the 2008 in the ones to avoid. So thought I would ask all of you for your thoughts on the 2008 model year.
Also it has been sitting inside a climate controlled building for the last four years and not used at all. They took it in for an oil change, fixed some air line leaks, all new batteries, and chassis service to have it ready for sale. So I would think the generator and aquahot would still need to be serviced and probably change the coolant as well. Anything else to be concerned about after sitting for so long?
I do know it has the 600hp ISX, but no DPF on it, and spent a whole day reading about the #6 cylinder intake valve issues as well. Which concerns me a lot, but the owner seems ok selling it to me for 35K under low book from JD power to allow for the cost to have the updated parts installed in the motor, before it drops a valve and is a bigger problem. I got a quote for the updated cylinder head, new scraper pistons and liners, and left some extra money in the budget in case it needed a EGR cooler or turbo while they were in there. Seems like 35K would be a worst case scenario. So would you go ahead and just do the work right away and then take that worry off the table or wait and roll the dice on it? I can’t seem to figure out the % of ones that have had the issue. Honestly. This one has made it 64K miles without issue so far.
Sorry for the long winded post and multiple questions. Appreciate any insight you can share.

[Frank Bergamo]

I believe that coach has the Kongsberg Chassis Control Module. People on this site have been working on work arounds for the module, but no permanent solutions as of now. If you do a search for “Kongsberg CCM, you will get a lot of info on the subject. That is a great coach, good luck!

[windsorbill06]

@timaz996 I'm confused?  Why paste and copy the question from IRV2?   Your not Colddiesel over there, I don't think??

[timaz996]

5 minutes ago, windsorbill06 said:

@timaz996 I'm confused?  Why paste and copy the question from IRV2?   Your not Colddiesel over there, I don't think??

Just trying to help anyone I can. Both forums benefit from each other.  

[windsorbill06]

ah,  good for you.   I know even mentioning this site over there will get you called out.  Too bad.  

[Michael Powell]

What is the price of the Blue Book price?  Prices should be droping...

[Jdw12345]

After making a living owning a trucking company, avoiding a known on the road break down, it will be better, easier and cheaper to do the repairs at your convenience, not when the coach forces the repairs, sometimes when those repairs need to happen it’s not at a repair facility of your choice! For me, it would be a peace of mind knowing that a major repair was complete and not around the next corner. Also, if you drop a value the money you allowed on the purchase probably wouldn’t cover the repairs after you drop a valve! JMO!  Like I said, I have a different point of view when it comes to repairs, they’re always cheaper when you plan the repairs!

Edited August 21, 2023 by Jdw12345

[Paul J A]

You couldn't give me a coach with A  Konsburg CHASSIS MULTIPLEX SYSTEM .

[Frank Bergamo]

This might help you, 

Good luck!

[96 EVO]

30 minutes ago, Paul J A said:

You couldn't give me a coach with A  Konsburg CHASSIS MULTIPLEX SYSTEM .

I'll bet the majority of them have never had any issues!

[vito.a]

I wouldn't worry about the pre-DEF ISX 600 engine at 64k miles.  In fact, of the available engine options I would prefer it.  

I would research the Kongsberg multiplex system and thoroughly check all systems controlled by it.  

The Monaco Signature is a lot of bang for the buck.  

Best of luck!

[Paul J A]

10 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

I'll bet the majority of them have never had any issues!

Thanks. I have no interest in taking a 150-180K$ gamble. More unkowns than knowns. 

[David Pratt]

Yes, there are probably many 08-09 Monaco Dynasty, Executive, Signature and HR coaches of similar models that have the KONGSBERG Chassis MUX system that have not had an Issue yet. It is not a matter of "IF" it will, it is just a matter of "WHEN". And when "WHEN" happens, you have a very expensive "Boat Anchor". We have a member on this forum that had to total his coach because of the KONGSBURG system failure because of a surge from a lightning strike near his coach.

There are several members working on the Issues for a fix, but progress will be slow and Expensive.

You should do your due Diligence and research on both this Forum and the IRV2 Forum on the KONGSBERG System and get your self educated on what you may be getting your self into if you purchase this coach.

The ISX-600HP Cummins is the least of your worries, The valve issue was more prevalent to the 650HP ISX.

[Paul J A]

Talked to the Original  owner of a 2009 Executive the other day. He has a ISX 650 with 102K miles on it. Never had a issue. Not a full timer. Yah just never know. AND he does NOT have the Kongsburg Chassis Multiplex. Must be one of the very last ones around. I know of another Executive like that.

[Tom Cherry]

Many posts…a lot of information… David Pratt summed it up.  BUT, we only hear about the “OMG, I think I think I have a CCM issue here” problems. @Frank McElroy is probably the most knowledgeable person, today, in the country.  I say that with great pride as he has “tutored” me and spent hours answering questions.  Over 18 months ago, the subject of OMG…Got a CCM system….what do I do NOW has been an offline discussion and there have been many posts. I’m posting a screen shot of one of his Franks and a synopsis.

FWIW, we probably have the most information, as well as debunking all the MISINFORMATION and “not so well informed” posts here.  But, others have used other forums…and I am probably biased…

If anyone really wants to understand and become a little more knowledgeable, then put Kongsberg in the search box.  Click on Everywhere and chose Topics.  There are at least 3.  We made a decision earlier to set up a “fix and repair and help” topic for current issues.  But, a wealth of info, go to the 10 page one that started the serious posting….the 2009 Sig.

Next up. Return to Search.  Kongsberg but Files.  Frank has a wealth of info also.

Finally…  as to “what or when did Monaco convert to CCM”.  Well, that depends.  Some of the higher end 2008, like Sig and Exec most likely had them.  But, what the Sales Brochures say and how they were built…typical Monaco.  I have helped a local tech work on a 2008 Dynasty…brake and taillights.  Frank’s first comment….GO LOOK.  Looking in the FRB as well as the type and style of the chassis switches (cockpit area) is the only SURE way.  In the files is the original RV mag article about the CCM.  So, pre 2009…Higher ends…maybe…maybe even a late Dynasty (or HR or Beaver, I think, equivalent).  2009 and up….probably 100%…but LOOK first…if planning to purchase….get pictures before you go look.

And LAST…but not least? Should or should not I purchase and and what are the “odds”.  First, as of today, there is NOT a replacement or “gee, do this” alternative.  But, many times issues are fixable….as long as some person, owner or friend or tech, hasn’t “well, I THINK this should work”.  Many of the issues come from folks actually “tinkering” and then killing some critical circuits or disconnecting stuff.  Too many times, it was misdiagnosed and the “fix” was way worse and that just exacerbated the problem…and made it worse.  Pay attention to Frank’s comments in the screen shot.

Now….what are the odds?  What are my odds of winning a lottery.  NONE if I don’t buy a ticket.  But, as David comments….when it breaks….there are few solutions.  That stsrted, I am told….as well as reflecting back to 2012 or so….and recalling the “strange posts” that had CCM and rear control boxes and whatever….there were many issues.  Whether, after the Bankruptcy and Navistar and such, there were reliability improvements….no idea.  But when someone spent upwards of $500K and then the brake lights quit or a myriad of other “individual” annoyances or complete electrical blackout for the rear cap…folks, and rightly so, were upset…same for a one or two year old,….and there were many repos out there…..seemingly great deals.

Fast forward to now.  We, this site, has more info on how the system works than the most advanced Monaco tech did in the early years.  There were several Monaco “electronics folks…CCM?” that manned the dealer tech support system.  I daresay, we understand more than the techs then.

Bottom line, we have NO list of how many CCM units were sold.  We have no list of the frequency or type of repairs made nor how many are out there in 100%, perfect, as designed, working order or “otherwise”.  It reality, to me comes down to a personal decision….and each has their own criteria.  We have seen very few, I think total failures.  The 09 Sig was like looking at a day time soap opera.  Many folks are concerned..some, so much so, that they disposed of the CCM as their “worry factor” was outweighing their “enjoyment factor”.  There is also a personal finance decision.  Since there is not, to the best of my knowledge, a replacement or a repair solution, then one is at risk.  Risk tolerance is the first thing out of a CFP or Investment manager….what is your personal “risk tolerance”….and purchasing or continuing to own a CCM is difficult to quantify.  We know or believe that many, if not the majority, are fine….but the “odds” of a fatal failure….unknown.  

I think, before long….how long?….who knows, there will be a work around.  How extensive and how costly and how easily found (as in the guru that can fix it)…who knows.  We also have many control boards and components on our MH that are not easily replaced….the 2006/7 Dynasty and up has a series of Intellitec PCB that are often problematic..  someone might be able or can repair or fix the board….other solutions are to bypass or worked around.  BUT, Intellitec does not make them and used ones are scarce….

I can’t go past that….it is a judgement call and the above is about as general, but overall factual, as my brain can handle….

Others have more specific feelings…and we have to respect that.  

But, this is the best place, I think, to get help and if one owns a CCM, have the most resources for a resolution….save a major failure.  Read Frank’s advice….heed it…if you have or are planning to purchase…

[David Pratt]

Tom, Excellent post.

Thank You!!!

[birdshill123]

 There are many other mfrs. that have systems with similar problems. Of course that does not help this discussion. Entegra and others are installing systems that run on a tablet. Probably the whole system is a Chinese import.  that system bites the dust you are beyond a brick even the blinds run through that controller. Even cheap travel trailers have a remote that controls Many items. There is a good Tech on both you tube and Tik Tok that showed all the electronic test kits for many different brands of multiplex systems. Good luck finding someone with the diagnostic tools in Tucamcari. Or anywhere in my home country of Canada. I suspect that Lippert has something to do with this junk.

[Chuck B 2004 Windsor]

On 8/20/2023 at 3:33 PM, windsorbill06 said:

@timaz996 I'm confused?  Why paste and copy the question from IRV2?   Your not Colddiesel over there, I don't think??

IRV2 is in business to make money.  I do not deal with them.   Make sure any posts to them are copy writhed or they might steal the posts to make money off them.