2011 Camelot slide out floor rotting. Help

[camelot]

My rear bedroom slideout has a small 4x10 in. rot on the outside when I put it out. Looks to be right where the rollers hit the bottom. 

Edited August 27, 2023 by Tom Cherry
Duplicate multiple imagws

[96 EVO]

Your going to need 12" wide Guardian Plates on that slide! 

[cowpoke]

The first thing you probably should do is find out where the moisture is coming from—-could be from up top as well as the bottom..

[camelot]

2 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Your going to need 12" wide Guardian Plates on that slide! 

What is a guardian plate and where to get them ? Also how to install based on my photos? TY Steve

1 hour ago, cowpoke said:

The first thing you probably should do is find out where the moisture is coming from—-could be from up top as well as the bottom..

Thank You! Good Idea but where do I start? Ty Steve

[cbr046]

This will help. 

 

- bob

 

[timaz996]

I would look at your rollers under that slide. That looks like roller damage to me.

Edited August 27, 2023 by timaz996

[Martinvz]

Contact Talin mfg and they will explain how to measure. Chris Trogmartin (owner) is a member here and he can look at the pictures you posted. 

[96 EVO]

The more I look at your damage, the more I think that floor may need to be replaced.

Hopefully Chris ( Guardian plate manufacturer / inventor) will see this thread and give his advice!

[Tom Cherry]

From the top, and a 2009 Camelot Owner that installed 3 sets of Guardian plates, so this is hands on and not “general”.

@camelot

We need more information and you also need to understand the structure and such.  That side is a tricky slide.  Your picture does not show what we need to see…nor what @throgmartin will need.  I urge you to proceed carefully and just installing Guardian plates, without some careful inspection will make it worse…way worse.  From the top.

We need to see the rollers beneath.  That wardrobe side is an 8 cable affair and quite complex.  I know….I had a major and costly adventure.  

Look under the full width of the slide.  Mionaco would change things and never understand.  Mine has (memory) 4 rollers.  These are NOT the large rubber rollers with an adjustable bracket.  They are small, maybe 1” diameter white nylon rollers.  They are spaced out, but generally, there are 2 on each end near the sides.  The other two are equidistant in the middle.  NOW here is why that is critical and it could cost you up to $2,000 if you do not understand and take steps to prevent damage to the cables.  Look at the bottom…..use a mag light and peer under the slide.  If you have the plastic rollers, they have absolutely NO ADJUSTMENT.  Thats right, folks…Monaco on the 2009 just put 4 puny rolers on small  brackets.  NO WAY TO ADJUST.

The number one rule prior to any Guardian Plate install is to verify that the additional height of the Guardian Plate will NOT damage or interfere with the slide,  I had done 2.  No issues.  But this particular slide and the internal trim or crown and header is UNIQUE.  Just the thickness of the Guardian plates pushed the slide higher…so that the top wood (finished) piece on the slide wound NOT slide or ride under the Crown Molding.  Next was the opening  in the sidewall was cut our of square.  When the slide was extended, there was maybe 3/8” gap on the rear half of the header or top under the crown molding.  But at the middle it was hardly a thickness of paper….  So, I put on the plates.  The rear half was less clearance and the half towards the front was an INTERFERENCE fit…in that the header pushed up the crown and the cables just kept moving the slide.  I did not discover that until on the road and spent half a day sanding and whittling down the top of the  header.  But the damage was done.  I later discovered that the lower front cable (on the interior side) was badly frayed and needed to be replaced. I ordered the BAL repair kit..watched the videos…and then realized….I can’t get to the portion of the slide where the cable end (like a quarter brazed to the cable) is located.  I got a recommendation from some folks and the name of the most .senior tech at a CW.  The GM of the HR dealership, a friend, had tried to hire him,  The tech and the HR dealer’s tech would call each other  for “how do I do this?”.  He had to totally remove the entire wardrobe cabinetry and then pull down the crown molding and run it through a table saw to get the necessary clearance.  I could not believe how fare he had go to get to the attaching point,  BOTTOM LINE.  He fixed it and no one would ever suspect it was taken apart.

Next up, judging from your picture, the lower corner of the floor and the sidewall have failed and water has penetrated it.  The Guardian plate will prevent that.  

NOW, we ned a better shot of the area on the sidewall.  I do NOT KNOW if what appears to be a roller, is  a roller or a “skid plate. Need  good photos.

I am fearful that this was some type of home made fix and we need to see what type of rollers support the slide.

PLEASE read and Heed.  If you figure out how to salvage and put in a Guardian plate(s) and do NOT verify the internal clearance….it could get costly and sticky….

 

[Tom Wallis]

I don't know any thing about that particular slide but it appears to me that the damaged area lines up perfectly with what looks like a board wedged under the slide.  The picture is not real clear so if I'm way out in left field just let me know.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Tom Wallis

[dandick66]

23 hours ago, camelot said:

My rear bedroom slideout has a small 4x10 in. rot on the outside when I put it out. Looks to be right where the rollers hit the bottom. 

I see you’re in Palm Bay.  That’s only about 3 hours from Brooksville, where Talin is located.  They can determine if you need a new floor or not.  They’ll install the Guardian plates and see if you have any other problems.

[camelot]

1 minute ago, dandick66 said:

I see you’re in Palm Bay.  That’s only about 3 hours from Brooksville, where Talin is located.  They can determine if you need a new floor or not.  They’ll install the Guardian plates and see if you have any other problems.

Thank You! Steve

12 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

From the top, and a 2009 Camelot Owner that installed 3 sets of Guardian plates, so this is hands on and not “general”.

@camelot

We need more information and you also need to understand the structure and such.  That side is a tricky slide.  Your picture does not show what we need to see…nor what @throgmartin will need.  I urge you to proceed carefully and just installing Guardian plates, without some careful inspection will make it worse…way worse.  From the top.

We need to see the rollers beneath.  That wardrobe side is an 8 cable affair and quite complex.  I know….I had a major and costly adventure.  

Look under the full width of the slide.  Mionaco would change things and never understand.  Mine has (memory) 4 rollers.  These are NOT the large rubber rollers with an adjustable bracket.  They are small, maybe 1” diameter white nylon rollers.  They are spaced out, but generally, there are 2 on each end near the sides.  The other two are equidistant in the middle.  NOW here is why that is critical and it could cost you up to $2,000 if you do not understand and take steps to prevent damage to the cables.  Look at the bottom…..use a mag light and peer under the slide.  If you have the plastic rollers, they have absolutely NO ADJUSTMENT.  Thats right, folks…Monaco on the 2009 just put 4 puny rolers on small  brackets.  NO WAY TO ADJUST.

The number one rule prior to any Guardian Plate install is to verify that the additional height of the Guardian Plate will NOT damage or interfere with the slide,  I had done 2.  No issues.  But this particular slide and the internal trim or crown and header is UNIQUE.  Just the thickness of the Guardian plates pushed the slide higher…so that the top wood (finished) piece on the slide wound NOT slide or ride under the Crown Molding.  Next was the opening  in the sidewall was cut our of square.  When the slide was extended, there was maybe 3/8” gap on the rear half of the header or top under the crown molding.  But at the middle it was hardly a thickness of paper….  So, I put on the plates.  The rear half was less clearance and the half towards the front was an INTERFERENCE fit…in that the header pushed up the crown and the cables just kept moving the slide.  I did not discover that until on the road and spent half a day sanding and whittling down the top of the  header.  But the damage was done.  I later discovered that the lower front cable (on the interior side) was badly frayed and needed to be replaced. I ordered the BAL repair kit..watched the videos…and then realized….I can’t get to the portion of the slide where the cable end (like a quarter brazed to the cable) is located.  I got a recommendation from some folks and the name of the most .senior tech at a CW.  The GM of the HR dealership, a friend, had tried to hire him,  The tech and the HR dealer’s tech would call each other  for “how do I do this?”.  He had to totally remove the entire wardrobe cabinetry and then pull down the crown molding and run it through a table saw to get the necessary clearance.  I could not believe how fare he had go to get to the attaching point,  BOTTOM LINE.  He fixed it and no one would ever suspect it was taken apart.

Next up, judging from your picture, the lower corner of the floor and the sidewall have failed and water has penetrated it.  The Guardian plate will prevent that.  

NOW, we ned a better shot of the area on the sidewall.  I do NOT KNOW if what appears to be a roller, is  a roller or a “skid plate. Need  good photos.

I am fearful that this was some type of home made fix and we need to see what type of rollers support the slide.

PLEASE read and Heed.  If you figure out how to salvage and put in a Guardian plate(s) and do NOT verify the internal clearance….it could get costly and sticky….

 

Thanks again Tom! Barry at Josams was everything you spoke of thank you! Im sending additional photos!

[Tom Wallis]

11 hours ago, Tom Wallis said:

I don't know any thing about that particular slide but it appears to me that the damaged area lines up perfectly with what looks like a board wedged under the slide.  The picture is not real clear so if I'm way out in left field just let me know.

Sorry, I guess I was way out in left field. I can definitely see thee roller in the new photos.

[throgmartin]

The photo shows that the floor was damaged by the rollers. A very common issue on many brands that use the small 5 inch white rollers.

The floor underneath that slide is 3/8 " plywood. When the slide is deployed or retracted, the plywood flexes over the top of the rollers and because these small rollers do not have rolled edges and instead have straight edges they cut into the laminate. I have seen this a thousand times - literally. In as far as the floor needing replaced, it will be fine. I have saved floors in MUCH more horrible shape. This is why I designed the Guardian plates - To save the crazy costs of replacing a floor. See the pictures below of one of the worst slide floor's I have ever plated. The job came out great and we saved the owner $ 5,000 for a new floor. There are extra steps I have to take and use different procedures along with custom width plates when I repair a floor severely rotted but there are very few floors I haven't been able to save.

 

[Tom Cherry]

12 minutes ago, throgmartin said:

The photo shows that the floor was damaged by the rollers. A very common issue on many brands that use the small 5 inch white rollers.

The floor underneath that slide is 3/8 " plywood. When the slide is deployed or retracted, the plywood flexes over the top of the rollers and because these small rollers do not have rolled edges and instead have straight edges they cut into the laminate. I have seen this a thousand times - literally. In as far as the floor needing replaced, it will be fine. I have saved floors in MUCH more horrible shape. This is why I designed the Guardian plates - To save the crazy costs of replacing a floor. See the pictures below of one of the worst slide floor's I have ever plated. The job came out great and we saved the owner $ 5,000 for a new floor. There are extra steps I have to take and use different procedures along with custom width plates when I repair a floor severely rotted but there are very few floors I haven't been able to save.

 

Chris and I have been in contact offline and these rollers are a problem. He spotted my scoring or potential damage at the Feb, 2018 Gathering and I ordered plates for all the rollers.  The issue was that my Camelot, PROBABLY not all, had barely NO clearance between the Sidewall (interior) header and crown molding and the top of the slide (the finished and BIG piece of wood.  So, when I installed, that jacked up the slide.  With minimum clearance, which was a problem during the warranty and the crown molding had been "ripped" down and reinstalled...the tech wanted it "neat...so there was maybe a thin putty knife clearance when you ran the putty knife from side to side in the joint.  UH OH...Guardian raised it.  

This was my third set of plates....so I knew the drill.  BUT, I failed to check the interior clearance....as the other two (on rubber rollers) had more than ample for the plates.  It was a costly mistake....but if I had NOT installed the plates, then the scoring and damage would have been 5 times as much.

So...the Plates WORK...and the OP's slide may have adequate interior clearance...but CHECK the clearance or the gap of the joint on top of the header FIRST...then if necessary, remove the top crown and keep it off until all is finished.  Then rip (run it through a table saw) the header to get enough clearance for say 3/16" or so AFTER the plates are installed...

Chris is aware of the "issues" with the BAL plastic rollers and the damage...

[camelot]

Thanks again Tom! Can you order these plates online? Through Talin??

[Tom Cherry]

You need to contact Chris ( @throgmartin ) directly.  The plates will only COVER the damage.  In my PERSONAL and uneducated opinion, your slide is way past the point of covering and installing.  I had an issue on the bedroom bed slide...and it had an indent or cavity but had NOT broken the wood.  I used Bondo and filled and sanded it and then used the plate to protect it. 

Chris will help you and advise you what needs to be done.  He is our "Slide Floor" expert and a Monaco owner and member.

Trust him...he knows what he is doing...

Use this link to get his contact information... and I would PM also using our PM Email

https://talinman.com/guardianplates/

 

[Jake B]

Not sure what structure is in your floor but here are pictures of my bedroom slide repair on my 2007 Neptune. 

[camelot]

Great pictures! Did you do the work yourself? Ty Steve

[Jake B]

I did do it myself. Also had the plates made locally out of .060 304 stainless 

[Paul J A]

While having Service work done at the Monaco Service center in Lakeland, Fl. in the 2004-2006 time I saw many coaches being retrofitted with Stainless steel reinforcement sheets placed on the bottom of slides, to create additional strength for the path they traveled on during contact with the rollers. Couple of the tech's came up with the idea. That and the corner design were a design for ultimate failure. During our 10 years full timing, 2004-2014, I saw many coach owners do the modifications them selves.  Groups of members with MI used to do it at Pre Rally's too.  Options and choices are more abundant.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, jakebeintema@gmail.com said:

I did do it myself. Also had the plates made locally out of .060 304 stainless 

Really great job.  Your 2001, most likely did not the the “Bean Counters Intervened” slide mechanism and “upgrades”.  The Camelots have a poor and cheap design….as Chris @throgmartin confirmed and Others have commented.

The actual slide floor today is a vacuumed formed (foam filled & expands) sandwiched assembly.  The metal in your pictures does not exist any more.  The slide floor has a few, very few, wooden spacers or perlines.  They are inserted and give a small amount of support, so when the thin (barely 1/4” thick lower) board gets damaged….like hitting a bump or running over a curb with a rear tire, the void above it, being expanded foam, allows the lower board to bend or buckle or “inwardly bulge”.  Catch it in time, then a Guardian plate will totally reinforce.  Let it go….bad news. Happened to me on the other side…even with a 2” diameter rubber roller, the lower floor caved in.  I installed the plates on each end.

For the benefit of others….the side or corner joint of the typical Monaco floor/sidewall joint is a POS.  SO, when  you install Chris’ plates, you totally, with 3M Marine sealer/adhesive, bond the two surfaces and water will never get in.  The stupid 1” solid plastic rollers will, if bounced harshly, destroy the thin laminate below. 

Knowing the construction, as i core drilled and inspected and talked to a supervisor and the exGM of the original Wildwood Monaco (largest) factory service/warranty center….is as described.  Really flimsy and prone to water and/or vibration and abrasive damage.

Bend down and frequently inspect the lower surf@c3s and install Guardian plates when there is severe scoring or puncture or upwards bulging….otherwise a $600 repair will be almost $10K….

[camelot]

Tom, I talked with Talin and they sent me an email for measurements so I could order the kit (as they call it). Probably around 600 for plates on both ends. Is this in line with you? TY Steve

[96 EVO]

I ordered their long handled rivet gun along with the plates, and was glad I did!

[camelot]

Good to know! TY Steve